What Do You Want Pm Abhisit To Do Now?

[way2muchcoffee]

I don't really see how Abhisit or the Military can use force at this juncture. I don't doubt the ability to shut these protests down, but the cost could be too high for the country to bear. Every day that the government stands strong and nobody is injured or killed is a victory.

Either the reds will run out of steam, or they will be caught bombing or firing a grenade, or they will become outwardly aggressive or violent with authorities (more than mere skirmishes). If any of the latter two occurs it will be time to move in. Until such time they must wait.

I dont see the mamas and elderly from Isaan firing RPGs or maning M60's . Those that would do that , given a chance ,are a small minority like Arisman and his crew of thugs and they should have been arrested long ago had the Abhisit regime beeen in any sort of control which obviously till now they are not . In this , they are as much to blame as Arisman&co .

Edit : on the rest i concurr , the governement has to be patient and open to ideas from all sides

It seems clear by now that the bombings and grenades are coming from red agitators. There is no proof, obviously, but that is what I believe. Therefore when the perpetrators are caught and if they are on the red team then the protests need to be put down immediately. If the perpetrators are caught and if they are on the government team then Abhisit would need to step down immediately. If the perpetrators are caught and if they are from the military then neither the redshirts nor the government are responsible. How do you censure the military?

[SantiSuk]

Storming parliament is a party to you? Threatening to attack the PM's house is a party to you? Vandalized buildings with diseased human blood is a party to you? Forcing massive closures of commerce and tourism for weeks is a party to you? A very twisted concept of party.

I support the critical statement of the red shirt illegal actions made by the USA diplomats. Protest, yes. Law breaking, no.

Jingthing - I said that Abhisit would have been justified in taking action against those that invaded parliament. And I did not discount that force may be needed in future.

The other stuff - yes much nearer to a raucous party with rhetoric than civil unrest justifying military intervention IMO

[way2muchcoffee]

There are two choices. Either dissolve parliament or have a blood bath. I vote to dissolve parliament and get it over with.

Who is the blood bath ultimatum being presented by?

It happens to be my opinion. If the government tries pushing them off the street, the people will fight, the government will fight back and the whole thing will turn into a violent riot.

And who's fault will that be? If the redshirts weren't demonstrating illegally and engaging in economic terrorism there would not need to be any crackdown whatsoever. All the reds need to do to be fully legal and legitimate is to move back to the pan fa bridge. This is quite a bit more sensible than riots and crackdowns or dissolution of a legal government.

Edited April 8, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Splatter]

Ironic.

Thai Visa has a poll.

We have to wait at least 9 months for one in Thailand. Which is fine because the MPs were ....oh fill in the rest yourself.

[blaze]

The government MUST out an end to this public lawlessness...Thailand is inexorably sliding down the slippery slope to the abyss of anarchy. Already there is a sense of lawlessness throughout this country. Drive-by shootings are common here, such is the brazen lack of regard for human life. People feel free to operate motor vehicles as they wish--often driving dangerously and without respect for their fellow man. Nobody seems to believe the law is something to be obeyed...they make their own statutes to serve their selfish interests and get away with it constantly.

How to end this mess? As a former military operator and tactician, one plausible idea at this point is to take 'extreme measures' to eliminate key protagonists who are inciting regular people--who lack intellectual capacity-- to carry out acts of civil disobedience and suggesting sedition by setting fire to provincial courthouses. If 'extreme measures' means surgically taking out ringleaders with long range rifle fire, then that is one solution available. It is also very public. You must then provide a means for the main body to leave Bangkok without fear of being shot at or incarcerated. Canalize them using water cannons, acoustic devices and accompanying loudspeaker instructions along an egress route with buses and other forms of mass transport at assembly areas, preventing the flow of thugs into side streets to cause additional mayhem. Then move the group en masse to temporary cantonement areas outside of the city where they can be fed and sheltered until arrangements are made to send them up-country. This can be done with precision and compassion and not further fan the flames. Once the head of the snake is severed, the body is controllable and the mass hysteria will ebb. There are sizeable armed forces here that are equipped and trained to perform these tasks easily. The real issue is motivating and commanding them to do their duty and to do it successfully (minimal bloodshed but GET IT DONE).

Endeth the sermon.

Spot on Fore Man, I just wish Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva reads this and takes action like this ASAP.

Yep- just what the reds would love- more martyrs- unarmed citizens murdered by the state--- what an effective and definite way to coalesce the movement. (THaksin for one would be forever grateful for the suggestion.)

No more- 'every pm we support gets turfed out of office- now the mantra would be: "anyone who would lead the poor will be murdered."

I'm sure that there are more than a few zealous reds out there who would just love to see your scenario come to pass...

Edited April 8, 2010 by blaze

[Jingthing]

The pro-reds on this board may expect to be in the minority on this forum- due to its relationship with the Nation which most accuse of being conservative- if not yellow. So I doubt that most pro reds are going to go out of their way to make the forum look other than what they claim it to be- a yellow bandwagon.

Totally ridiculous points!

1. Being anti-red does NOT mean being pro yellow. That is pure red propaganda.

2. This is the biggest Thailand expat forum by a HUGE factor. Everyone is here of all political stripes because this is where it is at, like it or not.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Jingthing

[Mitker]

...Anyone with the name Su Kyi or Thaksin...

Nauseating to read someone is able to link those 2 names.

[Fore Man]

The government MUST out an end to this public lawlessness...Thailand is inexorably sliding down the slippery slope to the abyss of anarchy. Already there is a sense of lawlessness throughout this country. Drive-by shootings are common here, such is the brazen lack of regard for human life. People feel free to operate motor vehicles as they wish--often driving dangerously and without respect for their fellow man. Nobody seems to believe the law is something to be obeyed...they make their own statutes to serve their selfish interests and get away with it constantly.

How to end this mess? As a former military operator and tactician, one plausible idea at this point is to take 'extreme measures' to eliminate key protagonists who are inciting regular people--who lack intellectual capacity-- to carry out acts of civil disobedience and suggesting sedition by setting fire to provincial courthouses. If 'extreme measures' means surgically taking out ringleaders with long range rifle fire, then that is one solution available. It is also very public. You must then provide a means for the main body to leave Bangkok without fear of being shot at or incarcerated. Canalize them using water cannons, acoustic devices and accompanying loudspeaker instructions along an egress route with buses and other forms of mass transport at assembly areas, preventing the flow of thugs into side streets to cause additional mayhem. Then move the group en masse to temporary cantonement areas outside of the city where they can be fed and sheltered until arrangements are made to send them up-country. This can be done with precision and compassion and not further fan the flames. Once the head of the snake is severed, the body is controllable and the mass hysteria will ebb. There are sizeable armed forces here that are equipped and trained to perform these tasks easily. The real issue is motivating and commanding them to do their duty and to do it successfully (minimal bloodshed but GET IT DONE).

Endeth the sermon.

Spot on Fore Man, I just wish Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva reads this and takes action like this ASAP.

Yep- just what the reds would love- more martyrs- unarmed citizens murdered by the state--- what an effective and definite way to coalesce the movement. (THaksin for one would be forever grateful for the suggestion.)

No more- 'every pm we support gets turfed out of office- now the mantra would be: "anyone who would lead the poor will be murdered."

I'm sure that there are more than a few zealous reds out there who would just love to see your scenario come to pass...

Please understand that I did not suggest a wholesale violent reaction from the Government; only a precise surgical decapitation followed by a well-orchestrated, humane and dignified operation to carry out an exodus...to return the city to normalcy and stop the churlish posturing... before true bloodletting on both sides occurs...which seems to be the suicidal goal of the UDD this time. The thousands of Red faithfuls--compensated or not--do not deserve anything less, even if their chickenhearted leaders inside (and outside) of Thailand could care less about the common welfare of the rural poor. I am neither pro-Red or Yellow; I just believe that normalcy needs to be restored and that it is time for the Government to step up to the plate and deal with reality. Billions of baht are vanishing from the economy because of UDD actions; Thailand is getting a mighty black eye on the world's stage; it is TIME.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Fore Man

[Redsunset]

dissolve parliament is the best way to end this protest.

Short term solution - Long term nightmare:

square face returns, corrupts the judiciary, start again controlling medias and filling deeeeeeep pockets

No, thank you.

"democracy is not my goal" (Taksin Shinawatra)

We need lots of tear gas, sound machines, water canons and detention trucks.... I'm sure if protesters over ran Congress while it was in session, you'd see rubber bullets flying, people being escorted to jail and thousands scurrying away - AND RIGHTLY SO!!!!

[moresomekl]

I don't really see how Abhisit or the Military can use force at this juncture. I don't doubt the ability to shut these protests down, but the cost could be too high for the country to bear. Every day that the government stands strong and nobody is injured or killed is a victory.

Either the reds will run out of steam, or they will be caught bombing or firing a grenade, or they will become outwardly aggressive or violent with authorities (more than mere skirmishes). If any of the latter two occurs it will be time to move in. Until such time they must wait.

I dont see the mamas and elderly from Isaan firing RPGs or maning M60's . Those that would do that , given a chance ,are a small minority like Arisman and his crew of thugs and they should have been arrested long ago had the Abhisit regime beeen in any sort of control which obviously till now they are not . In this , they are as much to blame as Arisman&co .

Edit : on the rest i concurr , the governement has to be patient and open to ideas from all sides

It seems clear by now that the bombings and grenades are coming from red agitators. There is no proof, obviously, but that is what I believe. Therefore when the perpetrators are caught and if they are on the red team then the protests need to be put down immediately. If the perpetrators are caught and if they are on the government team then Abhisit would need to step down immediately. If the perpetrators are caught and if they are from the military then neither the redshirts nor the government are responsible. How do you censure the military?

As you say no proof so far ... Better not accuse anyone until there is.

On the military ?

In Thailand no way . Elsewhere by a military court , court martialling those responsible

[Jingthing]

...Anyone with the name Su Kyi or Thaksin...

Nauseating to read someone is able to link those 2 names.

Indeed it is.

As I said before ...

Thaksin is to Su Kyi as a cockroach is to a unicorn. The red apologists are really shameless. Some still cling to the fiction that it is a non-violent movement as well.

[moresomekl]

The pro-reds on this board may expect to be in the minority on this forum- due to its relationship with the Nation which most accuse of being conservative- if not yellow. So I doubt that most pro reds are going to go out of their way to make the forum look other than what they claim it to be- a yellow bandwagon.

Totally ridiculous points!

1. Being anti-red does NOT mean being pro yellow. That is pure red propaganda.

2. This is the biggest Thailand expat forum by a HUGE factor. Everyone is here of all political stripes because this is where it is at, like it or not.

To which i like to add : Beeing pro red does not mean beeing pro Thaksin . That is pure yellow propaganda

[jt1]

introduce policies to help the mainly poor and rural people, if the PM abhislt vejjajiva does this , i think he will get support from the country

[Jerrytheyoung]

The pro-reds on this board may expect to be in the minority on this forum- due to its relationship with the Nation which most accuse of being conservative- if not yellow. So I doubt that most pro reds are going to go out of their way to make the forum look other than what they claim it to be- a yellow bandwagon.

Totally ridiculous points!

1. Being anti-red does NOT mean being pro yellow. That is pure red propaganda.

2. This is the biggest Thailand expat forum by a HUGE factor. Everyone is here of all political stripes because this is where it is at, like it or not.

To which i like to add : Beeing pro red does not mean beeing pro Thaksin . That is pure yellow propaganda

Until now the Big People have let the youngsters playing.... Next week, the group of 4 "elephants" will overpass those low level discussions and, if not, the 20 april the Democrat will be disbanded....

Time to realise that the referee will stop the game soon, playtime is ending

Edited April 8, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[Jingthing]

To which i like to add : Beeing pro red does not mean beeing pro Thaksin . That is pure yellow propaganda

But Thaksin is the biggest leader of the reds. What you say doesn't make any sense. It would be like saying a Nazi isn't necessarily pro-Hitler, or a Maoist who happens to not fancy Mao. That's crazy talk, dude.

They are not equivalent, don't you see that? Pro red DOES mean pro Thaksin, that is a fact.

On the other hand, a huge variety of people oppose the reds/Thaksinistas. A minority of those yes are explicit yellow/PAD supporters. But for the MOST part people who are anti-red are most certainly not yellow, AT ALL.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Jingthing

[anotherpeter]

The pro-reds on this board may expect to be in the minority on this forum- due to its relationship with the Nation which most accuse of being conservative- if not yellow. So I doubt that most pro reds are going to go out of their way to make the forum look other than what they claim it to be- a yellow bandwagon.

Totally ridiculous points!

1. Being anti-red does NOT mean being pro yellow. That is pure red propaganda.

2. This is the biggest Thailand expat forum by a HUGE factor. Everyone is here of all political stripes because this is where it is at, like it or not.

To which i like to add : Beeing pro red does not mean beeing pro Thaksin . That is pure yellow propaganda

Given the tight links between the reds and Thaksin, being pro-red effectively does mean pro-Thaksin.

You support the reds, who support Thaksin. Therefore you support Thaksin.

You could support some of the red agenda (ie helping the poor) but that doesn't make you pro-red.

[anotherpeter]

introduce policies to help the mainly poor and rural people, if the PM abhislt vejjajiva does this , i think he will get support from the country

Isn't he already doing that? I don't think the reds announced it on People TV though.

[khunjamespittman]

1. Drop the idea of changing the constitution before an election is held. Elections have been held under the existing process and changes should be proposed by whatever new administration comes to power.

2. Propose a realistic timeframe for desolving the Parliment and have a new election. It's should be what actual time is required under the current process defined in the constitution. Drop the silly idea that the election should have any connection when some military leader is retiring. It has nothing to do with electing a civilian government that the army works for. It's not 15 days an surely not 9 months. The UK is doing it in 1 month. Thailand should be able to do it in a similar timeframe. Iraq wrote a new constitution and held an election in 6 months.

I'm heard all the excuse that Thailand is not like the UK. So what! The dissolution of Parliment and holding a new elections is defined in the constitution and should be followed. the process is a model that works and should be followed without excuses.

[lannarebirth]

To which i like to add : Beeing pro red does not mean beeing pro Thaksin . That is pure yellow propaganda

But Thaksin is the biggest leader of the reds. What you say doesn't make any sense. It would be like saying a Nazi isn't necessarily pro-Hitler, or a Maoist who happens to not fancy Mao. That's crazy talk, dude.

They are not equivalent, don't you see that? Pro red DOES mean pro Thaksin, that is a fact.

On the other hand, a huge variety of people oppose the reds/Thaksinistas. A minority of those yes are explicit yellow/PAD supporters. But for the MOST part people who are anti-red are most certainly not yellow, AT ALL.

As of today it is a fact. I hope tomorrows facts are different.

[JacknDanny]

How long will it be before some red supporter comes on here and says that the poll is showing a resounding success for the reds!!

[Jingthing]

As of today it is a fact. I hope tomorrows facts are different.

If I was a betting man, I would bet the reds if they drop Thaksin will get EVEN WORSE, if that is even possible. They've got some certifiable lunatic leaders here in Thailand, declaring war on the Kingdom, what are they thinking?

[ourmanflint]

dissolve parliament is the best way to end this protest.

What a stupid thing to say. At some point Thailand has to start behaving like a democracy and that means having elections to vote for who they want to be in government, it does not mean new government by rallying on the streets by minorities everytime they are unhappy.

Your short sightedness will only allow the cycle to play out again and again, or don't you belive in the right of ordinary people to choose to vote for a new government?

[khunjamespittman]

...Anyone with the name Su Kyi or Thaksin...

Nauseating to read someone is able to link those 2 names.

Indeed it is.

As I said before ...

Thaksin is to Su Kyi as a cockroach is to a unicorn. The red apologists are really shameless. Some still cling to the fiction that it is a non-violent movement as well.

We should all turn off our computers. It is now settled. Jingthing has told us what we think.

That's a touch on the arrogant side. Don't you think?

[Artisi]

Easy Solution is a s follows:

Ban sales of ALL Alcohol in Bangkok for 30 days.

Discount all alcohol sales in issan by 50%

Problem solved.

Yes, but you would have to ban the transport of alcohol from Issan to Bkk.

[rogerdee123]

Well I wish there was a fourth choice:-

4 - Arrest only the leaders and let the rest continue their protest.

But I know that no matter what the poll options are someone is going to complain that there should be another choice.

Anyway I appreciate the this forum and the fact that we have this venue to discuss these issues and blow off steam. So ... thanks to The Nation or whoever is making this possible.

[snorkelador]

The pro-reds on this board may expect to be in the minority on this forum- due to its relationship with the Nation which most accuse of being conservative- if not yellow. So I doubt that most pro reds are going to go out of their way to make the forum look other than what they claim it to be- a yellow bandwagon.

Totally ridiculous points!

1. Being anti-red does NOT mean being pro yellow. That is pure red propaganda.

2. This is the biggest Thailand expat forum by a HUGE factor. Everyone is here of all political stripes because this is where it is at, like it or not.

To which i like to add : Beeing pro red does not mean beeing pro Thaksin . That is pure yellow propaganda

I would say it's more being completely mislead respectively delusional! Where would all those guys be if Thaksin and maybe a few others who lost out when he finally got the broom from the military, after hanging on to the self-invented post of care taker prime minister for far too long, had not asked for and financed those protests? It's a rhetorical question - meaning no answer is expected!

[Jingthing]

...Anyone with the name Su Kyi or Thaksin...

Nauseating to read someone is able to link those 2 names.

Indeed it is.

As I said before ...

Thaksin is to Su Kyi as a cockroach is to a unicorn. The red apologists are really shameless. Some still cling to the fiction that it is a non-violent movement as well.

We should all turn off our computers. It is now settled. Jingthing has told us what we think.

That's a touch on the arrogant side. Don't you think?

The poll results rub you the wrong way? I can't help you with that.

[yoshiwara]

dissolve parliament is the best way to end this protest.

What a stupid thing to say. At some point Thailand has to start behaving like a democracy and that means having elections to vote for who they want to be in government, it does not mean new government by rallying on the streets by minorities everytime they are unhappy.

Your short sightedness will only allow the cycle to play out again and again, or don't you belive in the right of ordinary people to choose to vote for a new government?

Two things are very clear:

Firstly that in the event of any election held (at any time), the Thaksin forces would not accept any result which goes against them.

Secondly, the Thaksin forces would demand a green light for corrupting the electoral process.

Under no criteria are they in favour of 'democracy'.

the only demand is the return of Thaksin.

[justSumGai]

the worst thing that could happen to the red shirts is that this whole thing peters out and little by little ppl go home and it dies a quiet death. No one could say it was a mandate then. If I was the gov I would be begging ppl to come to Bkk and throw in with the red shirts *IF* they agree with them. This in itself would be a vote.

I say hang in there, let it loose steam, which is seems to be doing by such bombastic statements of late. Any new elections will be contested once things don't turn to Eden. Send in troops, martyrdom time. Calls for round two to avenge fallen comrades.

[justSumGai]

btw, since it's been going on near a month, seems ppl have opted NOT to come and vote with bodies in Bkk. Ain't rice harvest over with?