Thai Government Hangs By A Thread

[Oberkommando]

Also my friend has just returned from BKK where the night before last he reported seeing thousands of drunk people and some walking around with machettes, truncheons and even a few with guns.

I have passed the protests every single day, sometimes several times a day and seen nothing of the sort.

He was absolutely adamant that these were not real monks - "Monks should not be involved in politics" he said.

The Burmese dictatorship trundled that line out when tens of thousands of monks took to the streets in protest several months ago.

[Slip]

So was that statement, if it was indeed made, done before or after the army said it would bring in soldiers with the skytrain?

What possible relevance does that have? Or are you suggesting that if it was after, then it makes the statement somehow acceptable?

[jdinasia]

Today I just witnessed the worse national disgrace and misuse of the military since I watched the East Germans Army trampled their neighbors with similar shields as we just watched on TV.

Soldiers are supposed to exist to protect the Country and its citizens. Today we watched as politicians used these soldiers to trample their friends and families and children and monks and all to try to hold the poor and dis-enfranchized Thais hostage to their quest for continued power over them.

I won't bother to respond to anyone who would attempt to defend this disgrace.

The whole government is responsible for this disaster now. There can be no excuse for this disgrace brought on the country and these soldiers. If they had any integrity they would submit the resignations NOW.

I would like to offer a quote to the Thai Visa readership .......

The government must enforce the rule of law even if some law-breakers are killed or injured. It is the government's responsibiliy and duty to maintain law and order and to prosecute ALL law-breakers.

Would anyone care to guess who made this statement and when?

[humfurry]

You guys keep mentioning that Jatuporn threatened to derail the skytrain. Where is the credible source for this statement? Nobody has yet posted a source to back up this statement. A video perhaps?

Jatuporn made the statement on stage live on UDD TV. Thousands of us saw it, as evidenced by lots of tweets as well. I somehow doubt the UDD video archives will be forthcoming in providing you with a copy.

BTS saw it as well. That's why the Skytrain system was promptly shut down.

We have just spoken to the monk who came to our house in Chiang Mai. I expressed my disgust that monks were part of the protest in Bangkok. He was absolutely adamant that these were not real monks - "Monks should not be involved in politics" he said.

Also my friend has just returned from BKK where the night before last he reported seeing thousands of drunk people and some walking around with machettes, truncheons and even a few with guns. I think the poor government is on a hiding to nothing against this mob of Thaksin's henchmen. I dread them returning to Chiang Mai

Awwww... fake monks and fake Reds, what's this country coming to?

[Jingthing]

I am waiting for previous red supporters to post here to tell us they have changed their mind, and no longer support the reds, because of their escalation to terrorist tactics. That is the honorable thing to do when you have made a mistake. Still waiting. Those of us who saw the danger of the reds from way back will RESPECT you for this. Why can't you do it?

[TheOldWolf]

So was that statement, if it was indeed made, done before or after the army said it would bring in soldiers with the skytrain?

Skytrains' services suspended at all stations

By The Nation

BTS authority has suspended service of all skytrain stations after red shirts leaders called for the protesters to destroy all stations.

Earlier BTS suspended only four stations near the Rajaprasong rally sites; Chidlom, Ploenchit, Rajdamri and Siam. All entrances and exits were shut down.

Red shirts leaders told the cheering crowds that BTS is servants of Amataya, and urged the protesters to go and destroyed the stations.

Guards of red shirts protesters use black plastic bags to cover security cameras of skytrain stations near Rajprasong rally sites.

Thai TV reported that red shirts leaders told the protesters to gather together, saying the government will disperse them soon.

-- The Nation 2010-04-10

[Netfan]

So was that statement, if it was indeed made, done before or after the army said it would bring in soldiers with the skytrain?

I find it sad that apparently there is no limit to what the Reds will do to bring back Thaksin, and that there is nothing that they will do that will cause their supporters to question their tactics, rhetoric or motives.

[rainman]

I am waiting for previous red supporters to post here to tell us they have changed their mind, and no longer support the reds

Are you waiting for Santa Claus to come in April, too?

[rainman]

So was that statement, if it was indeed made, done before or after the army said it would bring in soldiers with the skytrain?

Skytrains' services suspended at all stations

By The Nation

BTS authority has suspended service of all skytrain stations after red shirts leaders called for the protesters to destroy all stations.

Earlier BTS suspended only four stations near the Rajaprasong rally sites; Chidlom, Ploenchit, Rajdamri and Siam. All entrances and exits were shut down.

Red shirts leaders told the cheering crowds that BTS is servants of Amataya, and urged the protesters to go and destroyed the stations.

Guards of red shirts protesters use black plastic bags to cover security cameras of skytrain stations near Rajprasong rally sites.

Thai TV reported that red shirts leaders told the protesters to gather together, saying the government will disperse them soon.

-- The Nation 2010-04-10

That doesn't mean anything. It's a news article posted by The Nation, might as well be something someone wrote at Fox News or the Disney Channel. Where's the actual statement that the red shirt leaders made? If you can't back it up with credible evidence, don't post it. Simple as that.

[dukkha]

color code:

the soldiers wearing small pink ribbons.

Has Prem made a statement?

Cheeky!!

[moresomekl]

I am waiting for previous red supporters to post here to tell us they have changed their mind, and no longer support the reds, because of their escalation to terrorist tactics. That is the honorable thing to do when you have made a mistake. Still waiting. Those of us who saw the danger of the reds from way back will RESPECT you for this. Why can't you do it?

The only terrorists are the one perverting democracy and their lapdogs

[jackr]

The whole government is responsible for this disaster now. There can be no excuse for this disgrace brought on the country and these soldiers. If they had any integrity they would submit the resignations NOW.

Grow up! This needs to be done for the good of the people. The country is being held to ransom by a bunch of hard nuts (not through the determination of a million people) who have had their way for weeks. It goes on much longer and the place will eventually be brought to its knees. If the government is responsible for anything, it is in letting it go on for as long as it has... anywhere else in the world and they'd have been taken apart ages ago; period! And it's not like it's a Tiananmen Square; they're not being slaughtered, they're being evicted.

Enough is enough. The only way to appropriate change is time, education, and the ballot box.

[ozzieman05]

You guys keep mentioning that Jatuporn threatened to derail the skytrain. Where is the credible source for this statement? Nobody has yet posted a source to back up this statement. A video perhaps?

Jatuporn made the statement on stage live on UDD TV. Thousands of us saw it, as evidenced by lots of tweets as well. I somehow doubt the UDD video archives will be forthcoming in providing you with a copy.

BTS saw it as well. That's why the Skytrain system was promptly shut down.

We have just spoken to the monk who came to our house in Chiang Mai. I expressed my disgust that monks were part of the protest in Bangkok. He was absolutely adamant that these were not real monks - "Monks should not be involved in politics" he said.

Also my friend has just returned from BKK where the night before last he reported seeing thousands of drunk people and some walking around with machettes, truncheons and even a few with guns. I think the poor government is on a hiding to nothing against this mob of Thaksin's henchmen. I dread them returning to Chiang Mai

Awwww... fake monks and fake Reds, what's this country coming to?

Uuuuuh

Ladyboys

Fake Ladies

ha ha

[Jingthing]

I am waiting for previous red supporters to post here to tell us they have changed their mind, and no longer support the reds

Are you waiting for Santa Claus to come in April, too?

So you are saying you support terrorist tactics, then? I just want to understand your position.

[SabaiBKK]

"The protesters brought Buddhist monks to the front, to counter which the police regrouped by bringing female riot police to the front of their lines. The protesters retreated as Buddhist monks in the Theravada sect cannot have physical contact with females."

Someone was thinking on their feet. Neat.

these monks should be defrocked , politics are against the dharma rules

[4223rhodes]

So was that statement, if it was indeed made, done before or after the army said it would bring in soldiers with the skytrain?

I find it sad that apparently there is no limit to what the Reds will do to bring back Thaksin, and that there is nothing that they will do that will cause their supporters to question their tactics, rhetoric or motives.

Don't be so sad, brother. We Reds and you yellows are closer than you think. As long as we keep calm and use respectful language, all will be well. Sati - the army has it, the reds have it, we TV's must have it!

[animatic]

Ummm again in Parliamentary democracies governments can change without a new election. Small parties can realign and poof --- a new government. To suggest otherwise is simply a lie.

You used a plural, suggesting that changes of government without electoral approval are regular occurrences in democracies. Do you have any more examples of this than the one in Thailand in 2008?

Try Gordon Brown for one, Bibi Netanyahu for another.

No new elections called when they took office.

Blair retired, Brown voted in by Mps.

Bibi's party came insecond, but the winner failed to get a coalition with enough seats,

Netanyahu is PM of Israel with 2nd place minority party.

No new election called... this could last till next election cycles, or fall and a new one come in.

This has happened in many countries...

A parliament is elected and and IF a party shows

enough leadership to quickly put together a new coalition

they form a government, if they fall and another can quickly do the same they can.

This can go on until either a vote of no confidence is passed calling for a new

parliament to be elected, of the ruling PM dissolves the parliament.

If neither of these options happen then an election is called.

Essentially if a coalition can claim enough MP's they can rule.

Edited April 10, 2010 by animatic

[rainman]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

The government needs to start addressing the concerns of the poor rural Thais.

2 years ago they had serious concerns, they were ignored.

1 year ago, they were still ignored, we had the "Black Songkran".

Now, they're still being ignored, we're having riots again.

How about the government addresses the concerns and problems of the poor rural Thais for a change?

You can clear people off the streets, but the problem won't go away. And the problem isn't Thaksin. Thaksin is a part of the engine of the red shirt movement, nothing more.

[4223rhodes]

"The protesters brought Buddhist monks to the front, to counter which the police regrouped by bringing female riot police to the front of their lines. The protesters retreated as Buddhist monks in the Theravada sect cannot have physical contact with females."

Someone was thinking on their feet. Neat.

these monks should be defrocked , politics are against the dharma rules

Is this a quote from the NEW LIGHT OF MYANMAR?

[Netfan]

So was that statement, if it was indeed made, done before or after the army said it would bring in soldiers with the skytrain?

Skytrains' services suspended at all stations

By The Nation

BTS authority has suspended service of all skytrain stations after red shirts leaders called for the protesters to destroy all stations.

Earlier BTS suspended only four stations near the Rajaprasong rally sites; Chidlom, Ploenchit, Rajdamri and Siam. All entrances and exits were shut down.

Red shirts leaders told the cheering crowds that BTS is servants of Amataya, and urged the protesters to go and destroyed the stations.

Guards of red shirts protesters use black plastic bags to cover security cameras of skytrain stations near Rajprasong rally sites.

Thai TV reported that red shirts leaders told the protesters to gather together, saying the government will disperse them soon.

-- The Nation 2010-04-10

That doesn't mean anything. It's a news article posted by The Nation, might as well be something someone wrote at Fox News or the Disney Channel. Where's the actual statement that the red shirt leaders made? If you can't back it up with credible evidence, don't post it. Simple as that.

It was on television. I would guess it will be on youtube before long. Then you can come up with some other way to defend the indefensible.

[Insight]

That doesn't mean anything. It's a news article posted by The Nation, might as well be something someone wrote at Fox News or the Disney Channel. Where's the actual statement that the red shirt leaders made? If you can't back it up with credible evidence, don't post it. Simple as that.

Typical silly damage limitation exercise. It was a threat made by Jutaporn, on TV, and subsequently reported by many people. Get over it.

[rainman]

Ummm again in Parliamentary democracies governments can change without a new election. Small parties can realign and poof --- a new government. To suggest otherwise is simply a lie.

You used a plural, suggesting that changes of government without electoral approval are regular occurrences in democracies. Do you have any more examples of this than the one in Thailand in 2008?

Try Gordon Brown for one, Bib Netanyahu for another.

No new elections called when they took office.

Blair retired, Brown voted in by Mps.

Bibi's party came insecond, but the winner failed to get a coaltion with enough seats,

Netanyahu is PM of Israel with 2nd place minority party.

No newe election called... this could last till next election cycles, or fall and a new one come in.

This has happened in many countries...

A parliament is elected and and IF a party shows

enough leadership to quickly put together a new coalition

they form a government, if they fall and another can quickly do the same they can.

This can go on until either a vote of no confidence is passed calling for a new

parliament to be elected, of the ruling PM dissolves the parliament.

If neither of these options happen then an election is called.

Essentially if a coalition can claim enough MP's they can rule.

Didn't Brown just call for early elections?

[Jingthing]

The whole government is responsible for this disaster now. There can be no excuse for this disgrace brought on the country and these soldiers. If they had any integrity they would submit the resignations NOW.

Grow up! This needs to be done for the good of the people. The country is being held to ransom by a bunch of hard nuts (not through the determination of a million people) who have had their way for weeks. It goes on much longer and the place will eventually be brought to its knees. If the government is responsible for anything, it is in letting it go on for as long as it has... anywhere else in the world and they'd have been taken apart ages ago; period! And it's not like it's a Tiananmen Square; they're not being slaughtered, they're being evicted.

Enough is enough. The only way to appropriate change is time, education, and the ballot box.

Agreed. The red insurgents/now terrorists WANTED the government to be brutal like Burma and China, but the government here is nothing like that! It would have served their propaganda purposes well for he government to react too early with massive violence. At this stage, it is simply the government taking back its capital city for the good of the majority of its peace loving citizens. Edited April 10, 2010 by Jingthing

[manjara]

It occurs to me that the forums here on TV have been becoming more and more divided (or polarised) into the pro- and anti- Red shirt camps.

If a bunch of foreigners with no direct say in politics in Thailand can't have a reasoned debate about this, then what hope is there that Thais will be reconciled in national unity with each other?

As in the case of TV, it is probably a minority of Thais who actually give a dam_n about this whole thing, but I don't see any end in sight. People will not be reconciled in the short term, only economic prosperity will dull the rhetoric and memories of events.

[animatic]

Simply sweeping protesters off the streets won't help solve anything. They will simply regroup and come back. Abhisit needs to fix the toilet that's leaking water, not just clean up the water. It will leak again.

Can't fix a leaky toilet with out draining the tank first.

Shut off the water source sand give it a flush...

Then you can address the leak.

This is for want of a more tasteful metaphor what we are seeing today.

[midas]

All it would take for this to stop is a single speech by Thaksin telling his lackeys to stop, that he really was guilty and received the justice he deserved. How about an apology from the demagogue for the misery he has caused, and submission to serving his jail time and other punishments?

But no, his selfishness and that of his followers will persist. An election would solve nothing. Whichever side loses will not accept it. Thaksin is the problem. Not the electoral process. All the bluster in the world by the Thaksin apologists will not change that fact.

All the red shirts have to do if they really want peace is to denounce their paymaster. But they would rather continue terrorizing the entire nation for their own selfish reasons.

Thaksin is not the problem

You want to tell the redshirts to shut up, stop getting involved in politics and go back to their ricefields........

Its not going to happen because this feudal system needs to change and will be changed.........the mood in Isaan is that it is now or never.

But think about how great this country can be if EVERYONE can reach their full potential and not just the chosen few..........

Though I realise then the Bangkok people may not find it so easy to get their slave labour anymore

[KireB]

That doesn't mean anything. It's a news article posted by The Nation, might as well be something someone wrote at Fox News or the Disney Channel. Where's the actual statement that the red shirt leaders made? If you can't back it up with credible evidence, don't post it. Simple as that.

This is a forum Rainman, not a dissertation!

And whether its true or not doesnt matter, does it? To you its competely acceptable to derail a train with people for the Red cause. Especially when carrying soldiers!

[rixalex]

Today I just witnessed the worse national disgrace and misuse of the military since I watched the East Germans Army trampled their neighbors with similar shields as we just watched on TV.

Soldiers are supposed to exist to protect the Country and its citizens. Today we watched as politicians used these soldiers to trample their friends and families and children and monks and all to try to hold the poor and dis-enfranchized Thais hostage to their quest for continued power over them.

I won't bother to respond to anyone who would attempt to defend this disgrace.

The whole government is responsible for this disaster now. There can be no excuse for this disgrace brought on the country and these soldiers. If they had any integrity they would submit the resignations NOW.

I would like to offer a quote to the Thai Visa readership .......

The government must enforce the rule of law even if some law-breakers are killed or injured. It is the government's responsibiliy and duty to maintain law and order and to prosecute ALL law-breakers.

Would anyone care to guess who made this statement and when?

The red supporters change their stance from one hour to the next. Their heads must be spinning.

Yesterday it was all about how weak the government was for not clamping down and acting with authority, and today, now that they are clamping down and acting with authority, it's how ruthless and unfair they are being. When people get fanatical this is the result. Pointless trying to debate sensibly with them.

[4223rhodes]

Remember that it's street theatre, my friends. This is not Al Queda squaring off against the NYPD. There are players off camera using what's on camera for a bit of influence and diversion.

[Oberkommando]

Bangkok Post reports that the BTS was shut down due to concerns for passenger safety, no mention of the reds trying to take over or disrupt the service.