Thai Government Hangs By A Thread

[tonywebster]

ok, the coalition partners have given the dems 1 to 2 months to make the charter amendments referendum, if it is not done in this time they will resign from the coalition forcing the dissolved anyway.

so no 9 months, or 6 or 7 months, at the most 2 months. good on them, they can see what needs to be done for the good of the country, if only the dems could have seen the same , put the country first rather than the monomaniacal desire to cling onto power that they did not deserve.

Maybe the dems are putting the country first by making sure that Thaksin does not get control of the army.

The dems are being forced into this by the coalition partners Peter, it is not their choice any more, I said earlier they are dead duck, a rudderless ship, whatever you want to call it, they are not calling the shots any more. They are now being told by the coalition, call the referendum within 2 months or we will resign form the coalition. At last the partners grow some balls and start to call the shots, they don't really want to be associated with this corruption any more, they can see what is coming, very soon they will need to choose who to join after the next election, they are making sure they can be seen to be doing the right thing.

IGNORANCE MUST BE BLISS

they are not a as you call it a dead duck, they have the support of the army and only because they have tried everything to end the conflict without blood shed does not mean they are powerless.

The coalition parties are spineless scroungers who just want to bet on both sides to ensure their future whatever happens

so up to know you have accused me of being stupid and ignorant, is is possible that you can make your points without the abuse or flaming, we might be able to have a sensible conversation, but that takes two.

[anotherpeter]

The dems are being forced into this by the coalition partners Peter, it is not their choice any more, I said earlier they are dead duck, a rudderless ship, whatever you want to call it, they are not calling the shots any more. They are now being told by the coalition, call the referendum within 2 months or we will resign form the coalition. At last the partners grow some balls and start to call the shots, they don't really want to be associated with this corruption any more, they can see what is coming, very soon they will need to choose who to join after the next election, they are making sure they can be seen to be doing the right thing.

Peter, if Thakisn could get control of the army he would have had control when he was in power, obviously he did not as can be seen by the coup. Nobody can get control of this army.

"they don't really want to be associated with this corruption any more," - Are you talking about 'Friends of Newin'?

"Nobody can get control of this army." - Hopefully that is a good thing, as long as they start working for the country independently, and not just for themselves.

The smaller parties have always had a hold over this government (and the previous Samak/Somchai governments) because they can change sides when ever they feel like it. The fact that they have not changed sides after the last couple of days means that they don't support the reds. They are still pushing for the consitution changes BEFORE elections, which IMO is important.

Whether the current government will be in control when the the army reshuffle occurs is unknown.

[Oberkommando]

had the support of the army and most Thai's

The yellows certainly did not and do not have the support of most Thais.

Your staunch defence of their actions at the airport and Government House while condemning everything the reds do is simple hypocrisy.

You are probably one of those people who also believe that Thaksins l.. oh well his wifes land deal in bangkok was fine and that the deal with Burma was totally OK and what he did with the telecom deal was in the interest of the country and not his company .. oh sorry, those were in his childrens and the maid's name at the time ......... and those mindless red shirts you are obviously supporting want him back because he is giving them money and promises ....... good on you mate ...

I believe none of that, but thanks for trying to tell me and everyone else what my opinions are.

[anotherpeter]

Elections will come this year in my opinion - the reds have forced bringing them forward... all this could have been avoided - the government is undemocratic (though legal) - that's the point

All this could have been avoided if the reds had accepted the governments offer of elections this year.

[Thai at Heart]

The yellows were fighting to keep Thaksins puppets out of the government and therefor had the support of the army and most Thai's except of course the Thaksin supporters.

As for who supported who in the coup, I think all we can say with certainty is the coup leaders were able to secure a significant amount of support for the coup from within the army ranks. Don't forget, a large amount of army people were moved sideways and passed over by the coup, so the support within the army wasn't absolute either. In a way, the army practised it's own internal version of vote buying and rigging by holding the coup.

Ain't military democracy a clean business.

As for MOST Thai's I wouldn't presume to talk for them. As for MOST Thai's supporting the yellows, I find that to be completely unprovable, any more than I say, MOST Thais support the reds.

All I know is that MOST Thai's don't like to sunbathe.

Edited April 12, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[BKjohn]

TAN Network: Kwanjai, DAAD key member told CAPO not to distorted facts n blamed red shirts for fired bullets, n threaten 2 parade the bodies 2 PM house.

Totally unbelievable in a civilized world. Utter disrespect for the dead and their grieving families. These guys went to the hospital and snached these bodies. What kind of people are they? This reminds me of the acts of the Somalia insurgents when they dragged the dead body of the American through the street and when the Iraqs insurgents hung the bodies from the bridge.

I believe that there is a cultural misunderstanding here. It is quite normal, even expected, that relatives, friends, etc. will pick up the corpses from the hospital. I recall a couple of years ago when my wife's BIL died in hospital, we went out and bought him a new suit and shirt, my wife and her sister dressed him up before loading him into the back of the pickup to display him to the village, and placed in a coffin.

The corpses of most of the dead red shirts will probably have been taken back to the villages they came from by now, where week long parties will be held to celebrate their martyrdom before cremation.

It is not disrespect for the dead, just a different way than you are used to for showing respect.

Are you seriously comparing the two. A private funeral in the village where the body is displayed to neighbors and friends and exhibit corpses to a mass gathering to incite blood-hate are completely different and I read they are going to parade the corpses in the streets of Bangkok. Make all the protestations you like; I find it barbaric and inhuman.

Rametindallas

rametindallas Al Queda would disagree with you, that is where the red shirt leaders have taken their lessons from they also use a lot of elderly and mostly ignorant people as human shields and than launch their grenades from behind them - another lesson the red shirts have taken in and lets not forget, shooting the odd journalist and than blaming it on the coalition is another favorite of theirs ... well, the red shirts commander in chief is at the source ...

Parading dead bodies for propaganda purposes is sick

Edited April 12, 2010 by BKjohn

[Oberkommando]

All this could have been avoided if the reds had accepted the governments offer of elections this year.

Could have been avoided if the military stayed out of politics. It has shown that it cannot unfortunately.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Elections will come this year in my opinion - the reds have forced bringing them forward... all this could have been avoided - the government is undemocratic (though legal) - that's the point

All this could have been avoided if the reds had accepted the governments offer of elections this year.

he was ill-advised not to produce a roadmap of DATES etc. - I have stated in a previous post that had he announced election in, say, 3 to 6 months with DATES this could have reduced tension - instead nothing but dithering... clinging onto power when most don't support them - power gained not through the people but by internal maneuverings - the last elected government was red - but now dead because it was banned - where else would a political party ba banned because some members were currupt? sounds slightly undemocratic?

[ChiangMaiFun]

All this could have been avoided if the reds had accepted the governments offer of elections this year.

Could have been avoided if the military stayed out of politics. It has shown that it cannot unfortunately.

well that is a point... but a dream

[BKjohn]

All this could have been avoided if the reds had accepted the governments offer of elections this year.

Could have been avoided if the military stayed out of politics. It has shown that it cannot unfortunately.

Achtung Oberkommando has spoken the military is part of this because the "state of emergency" or mashal law was declared - this is following international standards and would be the same in germany or the UK or the USA where the National Guard would handle the job

[anotherpeter]

Actually, it's a fairly well documented fact

No, it is merely an opinion.

There are many statements from the coup junta that they were against Thaksin putting his family in positions of power.

Statements from a Thai military "coup junta" that overthrew a popular government to be regarded as irrefutable truth?

No, try again.

Although wikipedia isn't the "irrefutable truth", it is documentation, and I could probably find other documentation if you want to completely ignore this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Thai_cou...ses_of_the_coup

You can choose to ignore this documentation, but without opposing documentation, it just becomes your opinion.

[Jingthing]

Parading dead bodies for propaganda purposes is sick

Sick. But effective. Someone in the red leadership knows how to manipulate the psychology of their masses of unsophisticated, uneducated supporters/paid cannon fodder.

[brahmburgers]

One factoid that's been overlooked is that when the constitution was changed by the military coup makers, they made that stupid stipulation that if any candidate is found guilty of election fraud, then the leaders of that party be reprimanded and disallowed from politics for 5 years.

BTW, the coup makers didn't have to change the Constitution, but they didn't know that. They automatically thought they had to, because every previous coup had done that. The earlier constitution was ok.

Anyhow, if that provision (to disbar the top echelon for 5 years) hadn't been there, then the Red movement would have had less impetus.

I personally don't like any of the TRT or PPP leaders who were banned, but I still think it was unfair when that happened. In case you need a refresher, the ban was announced/instated during the Yellow rally at the big airport.

Thais need to learn to accept who is elected, and go on with their lives. If they want a change, they can campaign or whatever at the next election cycle. Let's hope that idea takes hold. Best of all is to see real election campaigns (with debates, without fear of defamation suits!) , with free and open elections.

Maybe Thailand is inching towards real democracy, but the Reds aren't hastening that. The Reds are showing how unruly mobs can dictate political policy in Thailand. The yellows did some of that, but the Yellows didn't devolve to violence en masse during their demonstrations.

Edited April 12, 2010 by brahmburgers

[anotherpeter]

Elections will come this year in my opinion - the reds have forced bringing them forward... all this could have been avoided - the government is undemocratic (though legal) - that's the point

All this could have been avoided if the reds had accepted the governments offer of elections this year.

he was ill-advised not to produce a roadmap of DATES etc. - I have stated in a previous post that had he announced election in, say, 3 to 6 months with DATES this could have reduced tension - instead nothing but dithering... clinging onto power when most don't support them - power gained not through the people but by internal maneuverings - the last elected government was red - but now dead because it was banned - where else would a political party ba banned because some members were currupt? sounds slightly undemocratic?

It may have been ill advised, but when the offer is rejected outright, and then further negotiations are rejected outright, what is one to do?

It's not like Abhisit has had much of a chance since then to sit down and come up with a detailed road map.

[evanson]

Elections will come this year in my opinion - the reds have forced bringing them forward... all this could have been avoided - the government is undemocratic (though legal) - that's the point

All this could have been avoided if the reds had accepted the governments offer of elections this year.

The decision of whether or not to accept the government's offer wasn't for the Reds to make. Not fast enough, or potentially as disruptive enough, for Taksin.

[Sunderland]

MCOT: DPM Suthep: CRES crisis centre unprepared for unidentified group mingling with protesters and soldiers to attack both sides

Interesting comments which could be interpreted as either a third party seeking to cause chaos from which it alone will benefit, or as seems more likely a third party closely linked to the reds trying to make it appear that the government/army instigated the chaos.

I think we can only speculate. Anyone who claims to know more than anyone else is fooling themselves unless they share the company of those people behind closed doors who wouldn't dream of discussing this complex situation with any of us.

[BKjohn]

MCOT: DPM Suthep: CRES crisis centre unprepared for unidentified group mingling with protesters and soldiers to attack both sides

Interesting comments which could be interpreted as either a third party seeking to cause chaos from which it alone will benefit, or as seems more likely a third party closely linked to the reds trying to make it appear that the government/army instigated the chaos.

I think we can only speculate. Anyone who claims to know more than anyone else is fooling themselves unless they share the company of those people behind closed doors who wouldn't dream of discussing this complex situation with any of us.

Not claiming to have knowledge of who is behind this, however it would seem a strategic tool to up the stakes quickly and fits in with the terrorist strategy as already shown by the reds and their leader, Thaksin

[Sunderland]

TAN Network: Deputy PM Suthep, Defence Minister Prawit, Army Chief Gen Anupong said in press conference terrorists fired at red-shirt protesters on Sat

Since Sae Daeng been widely reported as coming out and saying he and his warriors were involved, why isn't this mentioned? Will it cause someone to lose face? Ironic that those in higher positions worry about loss of face while those who do all the dirty work have their brains blown out!

[ChiangMaiFun]

Elections will come this year in my opinion - the reds have forced bringing them forward... all this could have been avoided - the government is undemocratic (though legal) - that's the point

All this could have been avoided if the reds had accepted the governments offer of elections this year.

he was ill-advised not to produce a roadmap of DATES etc. - I have stated in a previous post that had he announced election in, say, 3 to 6 months with DATES this could have reduced tension - instead nothing but dithering... clinging onto power when most don't support them - power gained not through the people but by internal maneuverings - the last elected government was red - but now dead because it was banned - where else would a political party ba banned because some members were currupt? sounds slightly undemocratic?

It may have been ill advised, but when the offer is rejected outright, and then further negotiations are rejected outright, what is one to do?

It's not like Abhisit has had much of a chance since then to sit down and come up with a detailed road map.

well... he could have shown more leadership - and say

'I am for Thailand - any colour or hue - and I believe it is in the best interests of our nation to hold an election in three months - to avert any violence - I accept that my government has come to power, according to some, not through the peoples vote but through internal negotiations - though legal I accept that the general populace wishes to have their voice heard - I call upon ALL sides to step back whilst we produce an exact date - which I shall announce on Friday this week'

forgive my prose - but something along those lines may have diffused the situation

[Sunderland]

What the government has to say does beg a couple of questions:

1. How do the red shirt leaders think about rogue reds shooting at their men?

2. Were those pictures taken of soldiers pointing M16s horizontally shooting at reds or the rogue reds clad in black and balaclavas?

3. Were there also fake soldiers present?

Fake claims ... fake reds ... fake soldiers ... fake terrorists ... fake democracy ... fake money ... fake women ... fake everything you want

Thailand, the hub of fakes

[BKjohn]

TAN Network: Deputy PM Suthep, Defence Minister Prawit, Army Chief Gen Anupong said in press conference terrorists fired at red-shirt protesters on Sat

Since Sae Daeng been widely reported as coming out and saying he and his warriors were involved, why isn't this mentioned? Will it cause someone to lose face? Ironic that those in higher positions worry about loss of face while those who do all the dirty work have their brains blown out!

He is a firm part of the red shirt movement, a Thaksin man and one of the the driving forces of violence for sure - he even said so openly and to show his desolve, he threatened to beat up Anupong personally - a dangerous chap who sees himself as the El Che of Thailand

Edited April 12, 2010 by BKjohn

[ChiangMaiFun]

What the government has to say does beg a couple of questions:

1. How do the red shirt leaders think about rogue reds shooting at their men?

2. Were those pictures taken of soldiers pointing M16s horizontally shooting at reds or the rogue reds clad in black and balaclavas?

3. Were there also fake soldiers present?

Fake claims ... fake reds ... fake soldiers ... fake terrorists ... fake democracy ... fake money ... fake women ... fake everything you want

Thailand, the hub of fakes

haha well it is true that Thais and truth rarely see 'eye-to-eye' - they just don't put a high price on telling the truth here - that's been my experience in many differing situations - but that doesn't help right now - a compromise is needed and quick!

[Sunderland]

The press conference also revealed that terrorists took advantage of the situation on Saturday night to shoot at the red-shirt protesters, causing deaths and injuries

If the government believe 'the terrorists' are Sae Daeng and his chums then why don't they just make that clear?

It just seems to add more fuel to the fire. Now the reds will seize on that and claim that the terrorists belonged to the army/government.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Thailand is the hub of fake

true, you go to Pratunam you can get a fake "Lacoste", you go to Pantip you can get a fake "windows XP",.....

[Sunderland]

MCOT: Prawit vows tough response to unidentified 'outlaw' group; Army Chief Anupong recommends political system to resolve crisis

Well, you either know who they are (identified) or you don't know who they are (unidentified). If he had vowed a tough response against an unnamed outlaw group, then that would have made more sense.

So, Prawit is going to crackdown on invisible ninjas, is he? Good luck, matey! Arisman and the other red shirt leaders who have been roaming around Bangkok freely are no nearer being arrested, so good luck in finding the people you can't even identify.

[Sunderland]

Well the <deleted> is surely going to hit the fan if it can in anyway be proven that a third party shot at both troops and red shirts. If it is Sae Daeng and friends, then this is going to split the reds, which is perhaps exactly what the government wants to see.

Rather than the revelations by the government calming down the situation, it could stoke the fire further.

[Insight]

So, Prawit is going to crackdown on invisible ninjas, is he? Good luck, matey! Arisman and the other red shirt leaders who have been roaming around Bangkok freely are no nearer being arrested, so good luck in finding the people you can't even identify.

Just because I don't like reading it, it doesn't mean that I don't find it funny.

[animatic]

From the New York Times a real newspaper of record.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/world/asia/11thai.html

Not hard to guess why this guy didn't want a picture taken,

doesn't fit in well with the peaceful reds image,

nor with blaming the army for all deaths.

Edited April 12, 2010 by animatic

[Jerrytheyoung]

From the New York Times a real newspaper of record.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/world/asia/11thai.html

Not hard to guess why this guy didn't want a picture taken,

doesn't fit in well with the peaceful reds image,

nor with blaming the army for all deaths.

Change your Rhetoric even Abhisit and Anupong are not accusing the Reds!!!

[TheOldWolf]

From the New York Times a real newspaper of record.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/world/asia/11thai.html

Not hard to guess why this guy didn't want a picture taken,

doesn't fit in well with the peaceful reds image,

nor with blaming the army for all deaths.

I am very glad that the reds only have 2 bodies. Rest of them seems to be at the hospital for examniation. It will be very intresting to find out how they died.

The statement of Seh Daeng that his man took out the commanders is also interesting. Maybe he still have friends inside the army?