Bangkok: 10+ Dead, Hundreds Hurt In Bangkok Clashes

[Sunderland]

One big reason for a coup right now is that the government clearly doesn't have a strong hand over the police. If it did, we wouldn't have people like Arisman running amok in the city when he should have been locked up already for inciting this kind of violence, especially as there was a warrant for his arrest.

The courts will be extremely busy in the next 2-3 years dealing with all the PAD protesters, Sondhi, the red shirts, Thaksin, Abhisit, Suthep, Nuttawut, Jatuporn and all the rest who have contributed to the lawlessness that has broken out during this past month. Hopefully they will all receive what they richly deserve in terms of punishment for their lies, threats, greed and stupidity.

[Sunderland]

Matichon reporting 12 dead now.

TNN reported 15 dead and 678 injured about an hour ago. Source was one of the doctors at one of the hospitals. We may never know the true figure such is the cover up of such statistics in this kind of incident.

[pagallim]

Is this really how to deal with what was essentially a sit in?

n's don't break through police lines to get into parliament, army lines to get into a satelite station and army barracks.

A sit in? Sure they've been sitting at Central world putting thousands of people out of work. But they've also been running around Bangkok like maniacs provoking the soldiers, the police, the media and anyone else they can get close to. By the way don't forget that the reds often protested outside TV stations. I'm sure if they had been able they would have happily censored what was on the air. They believe in freedom of their speech, freedom for them to assemble, freedom to vote if it's for their party. The reds don't care about the rights and freedoms of people who don't share their point of view. This is far more complicated that a sit in. No one is going to accept the excuse of "we were just sitting here".

How many people were killed in those instances ..................None.

The deaths came last night/tonight. Correct me if I'm wrong.

How truly ignorant can you be? The reds have been breaking the law and have been advocating violence the whole time. They have finally got what they have been asking for and now you try to make them out to be the victims? You can fool some of the people some of the time but I don't think many will buy your rhetoric now.

Abhisit has been very calm and very balanced and avoided strong confrontation and avoided violence. Full marks.

Thaksin is solidly pushing his murky red leaders to cause a frontation and try to win.

Why? Simple, thaksin knows very well that his time is running out fast, abhisit is gaining ground quickly, more and more Thais can see that abhisit is achieving good things and he's becoming stronger all the time as he works his way through the minefiled he inherited.

Abhisit has alreday put in place policy directives which will provide a better share of the wealth, provide better education and opportunity for all Thais and this especially means the poor. (and not by poulistist handouts which fix nothing.)

The red leaders can't keep these truths from their Essan followers forever. That's why they are pushing now before their time runs out.

Best comment so far. It has everything what i wanted to say

Possibly what you wanted to say, but really the truth? For most objective people, these phoney grenade attacks that never seem to cause any form of substantial damage, resulting in the most minor of injuries for those who happen to have been too close, have been the work of either the government forces themselves, or another entity such as the PAD. I'm fairly sure that if the PAD had really wanted to cause substantial impact with such resources, they would have done so. All manipulated to create an atmosphere where the Government could justify 'stronger' action. Hence the demonstration at the Parliament building, and Suthep in particular.

I don't think most objective observers can feel anything other than empathy with the UDD, having their sole TV station shut down, whilst not so long ago, the PAD's ASTV ran 24/7 for months (and continues to do so), spewing forth crap and innuendo, rumour and scandal.

Running around Bangkok like maniacs? Strange, not seen too much of that. Last time that I saw that happening was during the occupation of the airports in 2008, with the seizure of police, presence of armed protesters, gangs of thugs, intimidation of the innocent etc etc.

Talk about fooling all of the people all of the time, you've been singularly fooled, at least on this occasion. Wake up and smell the tear gas. Abhisit has shown himself for what he really is, a weak tool of the Amart, whom they won't have the slightest conscience in abandoning when it suits them. In truth, I really think that he knows that himself also.

[moresomekl]

The army says they only shot live ammunition "into the air". Do they really think that the bullets stay up there? Or do they come down somewhere? If someone is hit by the bullets falling back down onto earth, aren't the army responsible for this?

"I just saw a red-shirt protester shot 3ft from me. Through the chest. It happened at around 2030 local time. He was doing nothing but sitting on a pick-up truck across the road from the Khao San road intersection and about 100m from Democracy Monument...."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8612783.stm

But of course who would want to believe the bbc or an English teacher when you can believe the soooo impartial Nation and military officials

Yes saw the BBC article .

Firing live ammunition and grenades into a civilian crowd , and lieing that

those are rubber bullets .

Good call Mr Abhisit , after killing a foreign journalist , you have all

the attention you deserve

[Mitker]

I'm from a Western democracy that underwent several changes of coalitions within an electoral term. No problem with that since each government would result from elected MPs choice.

Just like it happened here in Thailand. No lack of democracy involved here.

name='moresomekl' date='2010-04-11 00:37:43' post='3493332']

they knew what they were here for

they got it.

you keep poking a tiger, he will eventually wake up and bite you

So what do you suggest ? Accept an illegitimate governement

that has robbed you of your vote and go home ?

Abhisit went on to put off the air the red TV station in spite

of advice not to do that by his colleagues ex PM .

It all started there .

QUOTE FROM ABOVE BY MORESOMEKL:

"So what do you suggest ? Accept an illegitimate governement

that has robbed you of your vote and go home ?

Abhisit went on to put off the air the red TV station in spite

of advice not to do that by his colleagues ex PM .

It all started there . "

It's been said before but:

- The abhisit government is not illegitimate, but it doen't suit your ends to recognise this point.

- 'Robbed of your vote' Yes robbed meaning that the meglomaniac in dubai tricked you into believing he was the savior. Be angry with him, not abhisit.

- Abhisit was right to stop the braodcast and the manipulation of millions of Thais through broadcast of numerous lies and untruths.

- Advice of his colleagues ex PM, where does that come from, please?

I am sorry believe what you want , no other democratic countries in the world

would have a change of majority without general election . And thats a fact .

Coalition or not . The only way to remove an elected governement is through

either new general elections or a coup ... in a democracy that is

As a result yes voters were robbed of their vote , nothing to do with Thaksin .

Yes he has the right to do what he wants but stoping the red TV was plain stupid

and resulted in today tragedy .

Banharn for one warned him about shuting the red TV

[pagallim]

Thank you vry much for sharing with us . We need to hear more genuine witness to all this madness

you will. maybe you'll not like it. i guess you'll not like it. & i guess you'll not even able to imagine what will come out of this day. "heros" & "martyrs" for democracy - maybe you should stop reading marvel-comics & watching us-movies.

asshol_e, do you actually live here, do you share the feelings (for or against) of those involved?

[moresomekl]

Best comment so far. It has everything what i wanted to say

Possibly what you wanted to say, but really the truth? For most objective people, these phoney grenade attacks that never seem to cause any form of substantial damage, resulting in the most minor of injuries for those who happen to have been too close, have been the work of either the government forces themselves, or another entity such as the PAD. I'm fairly sure that if the PAD had really wanted to cause substantial impact with such resources, they would have done so. All manipulated to create an atmosphere where the Government could justify 'stronger' action. Hence the demonstration at the Parliament building, and Suthep in particular.

I don't think most objective observers can feel anything other than empathy with the UDD, having their sole TV station shut down, whilst not so long ago, the PAD's ASTV ran 24/7 for months (and continues to do so), spewing forth crap and innuendo, rumour and scandal.

Running around Bangkok like maniacs? Strange, not seen too much of that. Last time that I saw that happening was during the occupation of the airports in 2008, with the seizure of police, presence of armed protesters, gangs of thugs, intimidation of the innocent etc etc.

Talk about fooling all of the people all of the time, you've been singularly fooled, at least on this occasion. Wake up and smell the tear gas. Abhisit has shown himself for what he really is, a weak tool of the Amart, whom they won't have the slightest conscience in abandoning when it suits them. In truth, I really think that he knows that himself also.

Secunded . Great post

[Insight]

One big reason for a coup right now is that the government clearly doesn't have a strong hand over the police. If it did, we wouldn't have people like Arisman running amok in the city when he should have been locked up already for inciting this kind of violence, especially as there was a warrant for his arrest.

The courts will be extremely busy in the next 2-3 years dealing with all the PAD protesters, Sondhi, the red shirts, Thaksin, Abhisit, Suthep, Nuttawut, Jatuporn and all the rest who have contributed to the lawlessness that has broken out during this past month. Hopefully they will all receive what they richly deserve in terms of punishment for their lies, threats, greed and stupidity.

This govt has never had a strong hand over the police - hence the likes of Arisman and Sae Daeng running around and shooting their mouths off, but today it has shown the "watermelon soldier" myth to be exactly that - the army seem pretty united, so far, with the govt.

The retreat today was all about saving lives. The UDD are already jumping all over any evidence they can find of a bloody clampdown and using it to motivate other people into fighting.

[monkfish]

People who say the reds were only doing a sit in may be professional red propagandists. It is not imaginable that a normal person would actually believe that. Don't forget, there are professional pols posting here. I don't know why they care what foreigners think though.

Here are your terrorists

[Sunderland]

I was playing football with some former students of mine this evening. They are now in university and what you would call typical middle class Bangkokians. Not super rich, not poor either. They initiated the conversation and what surprised me was that they were either sitting on the fence looking on with interest at what was happening or told me their parents wanted new elections to choose who they wanted in power.

Saying that all Bangkokians are of this mindset would be wrong, but it's highly unlikely that the majority of people in Bangkok will be doing high fives and saying 'Served them right'. I think that many Thais in Bangkok will not be able to support the government after yesterday's events and whatever may follow the rest of today and in the coming days will not be enough to save Abhisit.

It should also be noted that the red shirt leaders' time is up. They are just as accountable for the deaths of those they led today. They should acknowledge their responsibility as soon as some kind of peace deal can be brokered or when a coup takes place, whichever happens first. Smart money is on a coup at this time.

[firestar]

I'm from a Western democracy that underwent several changes of coalitions within an electoral term. No problem with that since each government would result from elected MPs choice.

Just like it happened here in Thailand. No lack of democracy involved here.

Were these changes of coalitions the direct result of a military coup? I don't think so...

Edited April 10, 2010 by firestar

[moresomekl]

I'm from a Western democracy that underwent several changes of coalitions within an electoral term. No problem with that since each government would result from elected MPs choice.

Just like it happened here in Thailand. No lack of democracy involved here.

Which country are you from ?

[hanuman1]

One big reason for a coup right now is that the government clearly doesn't have a strong hand over the police. If it did, we wouldn't have people like Arisman running amok in the city when he should have been locked up already for inciting this kind of violence, especially as there was a warrant for his arrest.

The courts will be extremely busy in the next 2-3 years dealing with all the PAD protesters, Sondhi, the red shirts, Thaksin, Abhisit, Suthep, Nuttawut, Jatuporn and all the rest who have contributed to the lawlessness that has broken out during this past month. Hopefully they will all receive what they richly deserve in terms of punishment for their lies, threats, greed and stupidity.

This govt has never had a strong hand over the police - hence the likes of Arisman and Sae Daeng running around and shooting their mouths off, but today it has shown the "watermelon soldier" myth to be exactly that - the army seem pretty united, so far, with the govt.

The retreat today was all about saving lives. The UDD are already jumping all over any evidence they can find of a bloody clampdown and using it to motivate other people into fighting.

So have the army disappeared off the face of the planet now? The red leaders were telling people to cool it and withdraw. Do you think the reds don't know where the army is right now? Here's a clue - large barracks around Bangkok and other outlying areas. If they are so intent on fighting, why aren't they fighting now?

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

Is this really how to deal with what was essentially a sit in?

n's don't break through police lines to get into parliament, army lines to get into a satelite station and army barracks.

A sit in? Sure they've been sitting at Central world putting thousands of people out of work. But they've also been running around Bangkok like maniacs provoking the soldiers, the police, the media and anyone else they can get close to. By the way don't forget that the reds often protested outside TV stations. I'm sure if they had been able they would have happily censored what was on the air. They believe in freedom of their speech, freedom for them to assemble, freedom to vote if it's for their party. The reds don't care about the rights and freedoms of people who don't share their point of view. This is far more complicated that a sit in. No one is going to accept the excuse of "we were just sitting here".

How many people were killed in those instances ..................None.

The deaths came last night/tonight. Correct me if I'm wrong.

How truly ignorant can you be? The reds have been breaking the law and have been advocating violence the whole time. They have finally got what they have been asking for and now you try to make them out to be the victims? You can fool some of the people some of the time but I don't think many will buy your rhetoric now.

Abhisit has been very calm and very balanced and avoided strong confrontation and avoided violence. Full marks.

Thaksin is solidly pushing his murky red leaders to cause a frontation and try to win.

Why? Simple, thaksin knows very well that his time is running out fast, abhisit is gaining ground quickly, more and more Thais can see that abhisit is achieving good things and he's becoming stronger all the time as he works his way through the minefiled he inherited.

Abhisit has alreday put in place policy directives which will provide a better share of the wealth, provide better education and opportunity for all Thais and this especially means the poor. (and not by poulistist handouts which fix nothing.)

The red leaders can't keep these truths from their Essan followers forever. That's why they are pushing now before their time runs out.

Best comment so far. It has everything what i wanted to say

Possibly what you wanted to say, but really the truth? For most objective people, these phoney grenade attacks that never seem to cause any form of substantial damage, resulting in the most minor of injuries for those who happen to have been too close, have been the work of either the government forces themselves, or another entity such as the PAD. I'm fairly sure that if the PAD had really wanted to cause substantial impact with such resources, they would have done so. All manipulated to create an atmosphere where the Government could justify 'stronger' action. Hence the demonstration at the Parliament building, and Suthep in particular.

I don't think most objective observers can feel anything other than empathy with the UDD, having their sole TV station shut down, whilst not so long ago, the PAD's ASTV ran 24/7 for months (and continues to do so), spewing forth crap and innuendo, rumour and scandal.

Running around Bangkok like maniacs? Strange, not seen too much of that. Last time that I saw that happening was during the occupation of the airports in 2008, with the seizure of police, presence of armed protesters, gangs of thugs, intimidation of the innocent etc etc.

Talk about fooling all of the people all of the time, you've been singularly fooled, at least on this occasion. Wake up and smell the tear gas. Abhisit has shown himself for what he really is, a weak tool of the Amart, whom they won't have the slightest conscience in abandoning when it suits them. In truth, I really think that he knows that himself also.

OMG!!! Absolutely ridiculous. Amazing how you make the reds out to be the victims. They have broken the law, have done everything they could to provoke violence then try to make themselves out as innocents. Please tell me one other place in the world where this would have been allowed to continue this long. Abhisit has shown incredible restraint and it is every governments duty to protect the mojarity against special interest groups with their own agendas. The station was inciting civil disobedience and was advocating violence. This is illegal in any country and should never be allowed to continue. You reds wanted the violence now you got it so do not expect to convince others that you are victims. The real victims are the citizens and tourists whose lives have been affected by your selfish escapades.

[Insight]

If there's a coup I doubt there'll be elections within 9 months or sooner.

My wife was in tears earlier this evening about the whole situation. I was speaking to somebody who is (arguably) an ex-TV member and she's thoroughly fcked off with the red shirts. It's a flawed measure but the best we have for now - Abhisit's popularity is still growing and them some on Facebook.

My point is, if the army don't deal with the reds soon, there'll be an uprising lead by the people or the PAD against them. They've cemented their ambitions now in the eyes of many observers.

[helvetian]

People who say the reds were only doing a sit in may be professional red propagandists. It is not imaginable that a normal person would actually believe that. Don't forget, there are professional pols posting here. I don't know why they care what foreigners think though.

Here are your terrorists

I see a female suicide bomber there. No wonder some people on this forum want to see them massacred.

[Throatwobbler]

Jatuporn and his buddies make me sick. This is exactly the situation they've been trying to provoke - a big mess and some bodies to bring the government down. They knew the consequences, they don't give a dam_n about their own people.

Neither does Abhisit

Do you have an FXXXing clue what you are talking about?

You've been on these discussions for weeks now. Come on lets me give some facts about things you have claimed.

Number one. You have claimed repeatedly that the majority of Thais support the reds. I Challenge you to give me one credible link where that is so. All I ask is one credible link if you cand do that the I respect you.

If not shut up.

[Insight]

One big reason for a coup right now is that the government clearly doesn't have a strong hand over the police. If it did, we wouldn't have people like Arisman running amok in the city when he should have been locked up already for inciting this kind of violence, especially as there was a warrant for his arrest.

The courts will be extremely busy in the next 2-3 years dealing with all the PAD protesters, Sondhi, the red shirts, Thaksin, Abhisit, Suthep, Nuttawut, Jatuporn and all the rest who have contributed to the lawlessness that has broken out during this past month. Hopefully they will all receive what they richly deserve in terms of punishment for their lies, threats, greed and stupidity.

This govt has never had a strong hand over the police - hence the likes of Arisman and Sae Daeng running around and shooting their mouths off, but today it has shown the "watermelon soldier" myth to be exactly that - the army seem pretty united, so far, with the govt.

The retreat today was all about saving lives. The UDD are already jumping all over any evidence they can find of a bloody clampdown and using it to motivate other people into fighting.

So have the army disappeared off the face of the planet now? The red leaders were telling people to cool it and withdraw. Do you think the reds don't know where the army is right now? Here's a clue - large barracks around Bangkok and other outlying areas. If they are so intent on fighting, why aren't they fighting now?

It's called a ceasefire. Negotiations are supposed to be happening tomorrow.

[Franz81]

People who say the reds were only doing a sit in may be professional red propagandists. It is not imaginable that a normal person would actually believe that. Don't forget, there are professional pols posting here. I don't know why they care what foreigners think though.

Here are your terrorists

maybe this?

[helvetian]

Abhisit's popularity is still growing and them some on Facebook.

Wasn't aware that a PM's popularity and approval rating is now being measured by the amount of Facebook members, instead of public satisfaction, but thanks for the information.

[commons]

asshol_e, do you actually live here, do you share the feelings (for or against) of those involved?

thanks. just another proof for typical red shirt views what's "democracy".

dude. i live here. long time. i've no problem with "red shirt" causes. but i've problems with a) lack of policy platform, leaders who're into inciting mayhem, c) fools like _you_, ok?

[Insight]

Abhisit's popularity is still growing and them some on Facebook.

Wasn't aware that a PM's popularity and approval rating is now being measured by the amount of Facebook members, instead of public satisfaction, but thanks for the information.

No problem, any time. Where are you posting from again?

[helvetian]

Abhisit's popularity is still growing and them some on Facebook.

Wasn't aware that a PM's popularity and approval rating is now being measured by the amount of Facebook members, instead of public satisfaction, but thanks for the information.

No problem, any time. Where are you posting from again?

Central Bangkok, with view of the red shirt barricades. You?

[asiancup2007]

One person out of nearly 65,000,000 a flawed measure? Yes slightly.

If there's a coup I doubt there'll be elections within 9 months or sooner.

My wife was in tears earlier this evening about the whole situation. I was speaking to somebody who is (arguably) an ex-TV member and she's thoroughly fcked off with the red shirts. It's a flawed measure but the best we have for now - Abhisit's popularity is still growing and them some on Facebook.

My point is, if the army don't deal with the reds soon, there'll be an uprising lead by the people or the PAD against them. They've cemented their ambitions now in the eyes of many observers.

[phupaman]

Helvetian.

You come over in your post as a very sad Thaksin apolagist. Do you know whaty Democracy is?

phupaman

[whiterussian]

Jatuporn and his buddies make me sick. This is exactly the situation they've been trying to provoke - a big mess and some bodies to bring the government down. They knew the consequences, they don't give a dam_n about their own people.

Neither does Abhisit

Do you have an FXXXing clue what you are talking about?

You've been on these discussions for weeks now. Come on lets me give some facts about things you have claimed.

Number one. You have claimed repeatedly that the majority of Thais support the reds. I Challenge you to give me one credible link where that is so. All I ask is one credible link if you cand do that the I respect you.

If not shut up.

[Insight]

Abhisit's popularity is still growing and them some on Facebook.

Wasn't aware that a PM's popularity and approval rating is now being measured by the amount of Facebook members, instead of public satisfaction, but thanks for the information.

No problem, any time. Where are you posting from again?

Central Bangkok, with view of the red shirt barricades. You?

Near On Nut.

Before you delivered you're shrink-wrapped sarcasm did you view the profile in question?

[firestar]

Helvetian.

You come over in your post as a very sad Thaksin apolagist. Do you know whaty Democracy is?

phupaman

Just how many Thaivisa accounts do you have??

[BigPanda]

One big reason for a coup right now is that the government clearly doesn't have a strong hand over the police. If it did, we wouldn't have people like Arisman running amok in the city when he should have been locked up already for inciting this kind of violence, especially as there was a warrant for his arrest.

The courts will be extremely busy in the next 2-3 years dealing with all the PAD protesters, Sondhi, the red shirts, Thaksin, Abhisit, Suthep, Nuttawut, Jatuporn and all the rest who have contributed to the lawlessness that has broken out during this past month. Hopefully they will all receive what they richly deserve in terms of punishment for their lies, threats, greed and stupidity.

This govt has never had a strong hand over the police - hence the likes of Arisman and Sae Daeng running around and shooting their mouths off, but today it has shown the "watermelon soldier" myth to be exactly that - the army seem pretty united, so far, with the govt.

The retreat today was all about saving lives. The UDD are already jumping all over any evidence they can find of a bloody clampdown and using it to motivate other people into fighting.

No one must be more happy then the Red Shirts leaders tonight. This is exactly what they wanted to happen and they have set it all up since the failed negotiations.

Just look how they presented the dead bodies on their stage... is this how you pay respect to a man who ''died for democracy''. (just quoting them, because sadly these unfortunate people died for nothing else then the greed of some men) They had planned this from before, it was too easy for them to take the bodies out of the hospital. Everything was planned by these monsters.

The UDD facebook page is such a propaganda, people crying and telling they have lost all their rights... they don't show the soldiers who got killed by the red shirts do they?

About the Japanese reporter, it's very unfortunate but I have not seen anywhere confirmed he has been shot by the military. From all we know, red shirts were firing live ammos as well... Can also see many videos showing them firing grenades. They are not trained soldiers, so don't be surprised if red shirts shot themselves...

I do not like Abhisit government, but the red shirts have gone way too far and Abhisit has to do what he has to do. Sometimes you have to accept what has to be done.

[helvetian]

Abhisit has 162,000 Facebook members from what I can see, yes.