Australian Tourist Dies After Thai Street Attack

[bjoe97]

Very sad story. 28 years and about to be a father. Tragic. I have had a concealed carry permit here in the US for 16 years and thank God have never needed to make use of it. But there have been times (roadside breakdowns at night and dodgy characters giving my wife and I the evil eye) I am glad "it" was close at hand. All it takes is body language and a look to let would be assailants know that you are not easy prey. They are predators and instinctively seek out the weak in the herd. Don't be one and more importantly, don't look like one.

If I ever made it over to Thailand to live, I'm afraid I would have no choice but to go discretely outside the law and carry. After all these years, I would feel totally naked and unprepared without it. The Thai monkey house beats cremation any day in my book. At least you have hope and not a bowl of ash.

The USA has one of the highest Murder rates in the world, specifically because of their lax and ridiculous gun laws.

And anyone that thinks a Thai Jail would be fun has to rethink that.

The best solution is to leave your gun at home and stay out of trouble, or if you can't stay out of trouble, then don't come here.

CS

Most murders in the USA are made with illegal firearms and if the Gov changed the laws on carry permits every law abiding citizen would be a sitting duck!

They don't just give a permit to anyone,you have to have police clearance and show you can handle the weapon!

IMHO the USA has the right laws,the right to carry a weapon and protect yourself and your family,and i think this should be the same the world over!

I don't think this man was looking for trouble,just making his way home with his wife and unborn,and look what happened...a couple of hahoo's attacked him

and i think if he could carry weapon in Thailand or anywhere (im not saying he would carry) things might have turned out different!

RIP Andrew

lovely - from the land of firearms murders comes the solution...NOT!!!

It amazes me how incredibly those who argue for firearms can be....just take a look at countries with strict firearms laws and compare - the answer is staring you in te face.

un-analytical

PS - where do you think "illegal" firearms originate????

the USA is not and has never been the country with the most firearms per capita- and how safe they are the ones that do have the most guns, finland, austria, or is it swiss?

.In one country everyone has to have a gun.

And,please, let me tell you this, ego aside, i have worked in jails

the crooks do not give a flying fXXX about what happens if they get caught with them- it does not even come into consideration.

I do sadly and honestly think that responsible people should consider carrying some sort of device for protection.

[bjoe97]

I was mugged in the Klong Tan area a few years back. Two guys wielding machetes approached me from in front and behind in a darkened underpass at the bridge just west of the Klong Tan intersection. The attack occurred at about 8:30 pm. When they reached me they said nothing at all, but immediately one of them swung a machete downward at my forehead. I managed to get my hand up and blocked the machete, nearly severing the pinky finger and thumb on my left hand. I somehow broke free and ran as fast as I could, losing one of my shoes in the process. There was also a large slice on my neck that probably came from the other guy, also carrying a machete. The slice was not deep, but the fact that a machete made a cut on my neck was very disturbing. This was a horrible, horrible experience. Wrong place, wrong time I guess. But make no mistake, extreme violence is commonplace here on the land of smiles.

Wow, I know exactly the place you are talking about and have walked exactly there at similar times of the day. Perhaps I shall reevaluate such walks.

Random violence does happen in Thailand, and it's funny how when we first come here we think it's such a calm, non-violent culture because people are always smiling at you. But after being here for a while, you realize it's likely one of the more violent countries on Earth. Just look at the protests, red shirts using all kinds of violent talk of revolution and backing it up with violent action, and the soldiers responding in kind.

stats show you to be very wrong

Thailand is, compared to others an extremely safe country.The humam rights, treatment of women victims is awful, but by and large it is far safer than most

i have been in an dout- and nver had any real trouble, maybe that because i go against popular thoought and carry a little dissuading device which i have had to show( and was vindicated by the police- who kept it!)

[bjoe97]

Very sad story. 28 years and about to be a father. Tragic. I have had a concealed carry permit here in the US for 16 years and thank God have never needed to make use of it. But there have been times (roadside breakdowns at night and dodgy characters giving my wife and I the evil eye) I am glad "it" was close at hand. All it takes is body language and a look to let would be assailants know that you are not easy prey. They are predators and instinctively seek out the weak in the herd. Don't be one and more importantly, don't look like one.

If I ever made it over to Thailand to live, I'm afraid I would have no choice but to go discretely outside the law and carry. After all these years, I would feel totally naked and unprepared without it. The Thai monkey house beats cremation any day in my book. At least you have hope and not a bowl of ash.

The USA has one of the highest Murder rates in the world, specifically because of their lax and ridiculous gun laws.

And anyone that thinks a Thai Jail would be fun has to rethink that.

The best solution is to leave your gun at home and stay out of trouble, or if you can't stay out of trouble, then don't come here.

CS

Most murders in the USA are made with illegal firearms and if the Gov changed the laws on carry permits every law abiding citizen would be a sitting duck!

They don't just give a permit to anyone,you have to have police clearance and show you can handle the weapon!

IMHO the USA has the right laws,the right to carry a weapon and protect yourself and your family,and i think this should be the same the world over!

I don't think this man was looking for trouble,just making his way home with his wife and unborn,and look what happened...a couple of hahoo's attacked him

and i think if he could carry weapon in Thailand or anywhere (im not saying he would carry) things might have turned out different!

RIP Andrew

Thanks for that sensible post. And yes, I had to submit to a full FBI background check with fingerprints and the safety course before being issued the permit. So that is far from "lax and ridiculous" as was claimed. Gun "control" is an endless debate but the bottom line is it's better to have the means and not need it, than vice-versa. Ask any current or former law enforcement officer whether they carry off duty and they will look at you like you are crazy. Or course they do! Couldn't imagine going out with no means to defend against felonious attack. The common man should have no less right to do so if proven responsible and of sound mind.

And did I say Thai jail would be fun? Uhhhhhhh, no.

unfortunate totally agree.....

[Wossnext]

You Guys n' Gals all make valid points here but I have to say this....who really gives a shit about the reason he was attacked, ex boyfriend, druggies, muggers etc etc, and while we are on the subject, thieving penny pinching bastards though these insurance companys and private healthcare facilities may be; This poor guy was HACKED MERCILESSLY IN THE STREET WITH MACHETES!! how terrifying is that!! I feel sick to the core with sorrow for this poor young guy, what a horrendous experience. RIP Andrew.

I have a background in unarmed combat instruction from the UK military and have always felt that I could handle a situation like this one if challenged. I am a suspicious person by nature and always discreetly look around me wherever and whenever I am out and about, I guess I am fairly paranoid, and that is because I have been around a lot over the years and seen a hel_l of a lot of bad things happen to good people, Having said that though what could I do if I was rushed by 2 guys swinging machetes? fortunately I am not out too much in the evening so am unlikely to get caught out on my own anywhere. Even so I will now start to carry one of my small pocket knives around with me again. I am not going to be hacked up like that without a tough fight if ever faced with a similar situation.

I am married to a wonderful Thai lady, we have been married for a long time now but are now looking to move back home to the UK next year, not just because of what happened to Andrew, but because we want to start a family. Even my wife who has always been a fiercely proud Thai say's she does not want her child raised in Thailand because it is full of "Greedy and Stupid people" but mainly because I just feel safer in my own country (Regardless of the violence in the UK) and also because I will not get kicked out of a hospital bed if I am in dire need of medical care!

Respect and Best Wishes to Andrew's Family

Edited April 17, 2010 by Wossnext

[iko]

Thank you I wanted peaple to know this is not a joke, It a monster crime, he was a very happy man. wanted to be a good farther, was not drunker or bar fly or any thing, a family man, ex-pact family man, like many of us. he respected peaple and love life.

Thanks for posting, hopefully it will put an end to some of the hateful theories flying around as your friend is no longer around to defend himself.

What time of the day did the attack occur as that hasn't been reported yet.

Well, I'm a barfly and not a family man at all. Nor I have a project or something. So, do I deserve to be macheted by some thai dogs? I do suppose drunks and family men both deserve to live. No?

[atyclb]

"a spot of blood on the heart" = more suggestive of cardiac thrombus as primary source of clot subsequently breaking off then traveling to cause a catastrophic event.

If you are talking about DVT or deep vein thrombosis, it is often caused by trauma or damage to the blood vessels. Immobilization after surgery also increases risk.

Sounds like a clot broke off from the wound and killed him. Effectively a stroke, or pulmonary embolus. It's a rare and very unfortunate complication of serious trauma, and has been recently newsworthy as "economy class syndrome" where clots form in the legs after sitting too long. Just how much this was related to the needless moving around which seems to have been pushed by the insurance company will be a hotly contested issue.

I'm gobsmacked at the reports an insurance company would push someone to travel like this when there's a "risk of losing an arm."

I wish his family and friends all the best.

Thanks too for adding some details, Dragula.

[bjoe97]

You Guys n' Gals all make valid points here but I have to say this....who really gives a shit about the reason he was attacked, ex boyfriend, druggies, muggers etc etc, and while we are on the subject, thieving penny pinching bastards though these insurance companys and private healthcare facilities may be; This poor guy was HACKED MERCILESSLY IN THE STREET WITH MACHETES!! how terrifying is that!! I feel sick to the core with sorrow for this poor young guy, what a horrendous experience. RIP Andrew.

I have a background in unarmed combat instruction from the UK military and have always felt that I could handle a situation like this one if challenged. I am a suspicious person by nature and always discreetly look around me wherever and whenever I am out and about, I guess I am fairly paranoid, and that is because I have been around a lot over the years and seen a hel_l of a lot of bad things happen to good people, Having said that though what could I do if I was rushed by 2 guys swinging machetes? fortunately I am not out too much in the evening so am unlikely to get caught out on my own anywhere. Even so I will now start to carry one of my small pocket knives around with me again. I am not going to be hacked up like that without a tough fight if ever faced with a similar situation.

I am married to a wonderful Thai lady, we have been married for a long time now but are now looking to move back home to the UK next year, not just because of what happened to Andrew, but because we want to start a family. Even my wife who has always been a fiercely proud Thai say's she does not want her child raised in Thailand because it is full of "Greedy and Stupid people" but mainly because I just feel safer in my own country (Regardless of the violence in the UK) and also because I will not get kicked out of a hospital bed if I am in dire need of medical care!

Respect and Best Wishes to Andrew's Family

well said, my friend said same as you, people should carry something- and my God did that upset some people. I always carry something and see the sad necessity

RIP

[Deeral]

"because I will not get kicked out of a hospital bed if I am in dire need of medical care!"

this is getting near to the crux of the matter..........I don't know the details of his attack other than what the papers say etc and I don't think that they are the only reason for this poor chap's death.

[TheLaughingMan]

I dont know what the hel_l some of you are talking about judging the girlfriend for running to get help? I SPECIFICALLY train my girlfriend to get the hel_l away from me and get help in exactly that kind of situation. What on earth do I expect her to do? Get killed?! I want her away from danger asap so I can deal with my own defence and not worry about someone else that might get me killed. Weird and bizarre thought process from some of the posters here, you are expecting your wife to become a superhero and save your ass? The best thing she can do is run and get help so they are already on the way, nobody is going to save you but yourself at that moment.

[ComicBum]

RIP. This does not sound like Prasat. 10 to 1 there is more to it.

ya...like the crazy ex-boyfriend scenario. This is not un-common here.

[apetley]

stats show you to be very wrong

Thailand is, compared to others an extremely safe country.The humam rights, treatment of women victims is awful, but by and large it is far safer than most

i have been in an dout- and nver had any real trouble, maybe that because i go against popular thoought and carry a little dissuading device which i have had to show( and was vindicated by the police- who kept it!)

Unfortunately stats show you to be very wrong in your assertion that Thailand is an extremely safe country.

Have a look here at the murders per 1000 of countries worldwide.

Thailand is right up there at #14 and only a small increase could have had it at #7.

The murder rate is more than 6 times that of my home country UK.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...ders-per-capita

[ComicBum]

I am married to a wonderful Thai lady, we have been married for a long time now but are now looking to move back home to the UK next year, not just because of what happened to Andrew, but because we want to start a family. Even my wife who has always been a fiercely proud Thai say's she does not want her child raised in Thailand because it is full of "Greedy and Stupid people" but mainly because I just feel safer in my own country (Regardless of the violence in the UK) and also because I will not get kicked out of a hospital bed if I am in dire need of medical care!

Yes, you are paranoid. I wonder what your wife will say about U.K society after living there for a while. My bet is that you will be loading up the family wagon and heading back to LOS. Yes,shit happens here and the corruption(greed and stupidity) is obscene beyond belief.

I have chosen to raise my family 8-mons here and 4-mons in Canada.At this point we feel that Thailand is by far a better environment for our children to grow up in (ChiangMai).

[Motoon]

Well, I'm a barfly and not a family man at all. Nor I have a project or something. So, do I deserve to be macheted by some thai dogs? I do suppose drunks and family men both deserve to live. No?

Every life should be valued and treasured the same. I guess what Dragula meant to say is that Andrew was a good man and not someone out there drinking and looking for a fight as so many do.

It is a very sad and disturbing story. Unfortunately there is a long history of shocking violence in Thai society. One just has to read the different Thai newspapers to get an idea. Yes, Thailand is a fairly safe country depending on where you live and socialize but there is another (very dark) side to it - as I so very well know from personal experience. I could add some stories to support that statement (as so many did) but this is not the place nor time. This place belongs to the mourning for the loss of a good man and the condolences for his family.

[ComicBum]

When I first moved here I used to feel safer than I did at home in Canada. Once I opened my eyes a bit and started to see what was going on around me that changed. I found this website that may give you something to think about as well http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...ders-per-capita

....checkout the stats for your own country (Canada)...not exactly something to be proud of... I'd take Thailand over the great white north any day of the year.

[apetley]

When I first moved here I used to feel safer than I did at home in Canada. Once I opened my eyes a bit and started to see what was going on around me that changed. I found this website that may give you something to think about as well http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...ders-per-capita

....checkout the stats for your own country (Canada)...not exactly something to be proud of... I'd take Thailand over the great white north any day of the year.

Those stats show a murder rate in Thailand 6 times higher than that of Canada.

[neverdie]

a few weeks ago a gentleman posted her of how he carried a pocket knife

He got so much childish silly flack

some very insulting

a friend of mine in Nepal was confronted recently by robberss, but showed a similar knife and his attackers backed off

I do see the practicality of carrying a weapon.

Here is any example, who know may what of happned.But one thing is for sure.

Thugs think twice when they know they can also get hurt too.And ones chances of survival are greatly increased if one faces an unpleasant situation and one of these.

May he RIP.

bjob,

Anybody that has one iota of good sense or professional experience will tell you that its ALWAYS a bad idea to introduce weapons into these situations. If you feel you know best and must carry a weapon you really need to make sure you are highly trained in the USE & RETENTION of such weapon. Also, if you are carrying that weapon be prepared to use it and face the consequences of using it.

Theres plenty of people in this world that have had their own weapons taken from them and used upon them.....bad idea.

[Deeral]

Gun ownership is very easy in this country - ergo so is shooting them.......

[Deeral]

"Thugs think twice when they know they can also get hurt too" - and this is backed up by what learned document or research?????

[aras]

well once more too much capitalism.

In many western european countries this kinda behaviour would be unthinkable ( by the insurance). threat to end his policy. Now sorry guys but the insurance director should be hanged high lol

[reallyok]

hmmm.. sounds like the travel insurance wanted to save a dime and that cost him his life. I wonder if they can be held accountable.

And yes its real bad to get attacked like that here in Thailand, i hope they get the guys but if there are no more witnesses then it would be hard.

I sincerely hope that the insurance company are held accountable! Also seems to me, that the medical treatment here, would have been a lot cheaper than Aussie and of an equal standard too. My wife had a double heart valve replacement here and I have been in and out for various problems too. I have nothing but praise for the quality and dedication of the doctors here. Sounds like the insurance company is to blame in this case - sending an obviously very sick person on any trip sounds dubious to me. Condolences to all his family and friends, but don't let this just slide away!

The thing is that once he was back in oz, the state health authorities would have paid the medical bill and the insurance company knew that this would be cheaper for them than Bumrungrad. They would have only to pay the airline to change his booking ..........peanuts.

[reallyok]

Story does sound suspect to be TROLLISH. Why would they just hack him without trying to demand anything first? I'm guessing some words were exchanged of the unkind Bogan variety.

Yes of course because they'd act in a logical way wouldn't they.

If your intent is to rob and kill why say anything anyway?

Are you suggesting he said something "boganish" to annoy the machete wielders???

Blame the foreigner first no matter the evidence.

According to what his grandfather tells me, they were demanding the motorbike, but he was refusing................does that make sense to a couple of numbskulls in here ?

[reallyok]

Emailed to

Dear Minister Smith,

Minister For Foreign Affairs - Leader of the House

[email protected]

By now you should no doubt be well aware of the tragic death of Mr. Andrew Oake (An Australian Citizen) in Thailand.

Since the incident only came to light today on a local Thailand expat forum (thaivisa.com) it has had nearly 8000 views in a very few short hours of time. By tomorrow, I would expect number to double at the very least. You can follow the current forum at:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=3507560

As an Australian citizen (and ex-police officer) I find it repugnant and reprehensible that the Australian Government has not taken a more proactive stance with regards to the circumstances surrounding the death of Mr Oake. A Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT) spokeswoman said staff, "The cause of death is a matter for Thai authorities to determine," With respect Minister I find that response reprehensible. Do you honestly believe a fair, open and transparent investigation will take place into the death or Mr. Oake will take place? Of course it won't.

I find it quite ironic that recent assault's on Indians students in Australia were met with swift reaction by the Australia Government after condemnation by New Delhi, but incidents involving Australians abroad, in this case involving the death of an Australian citizen, receive such a mediocre response from the Australian Government.

Minister, I look forward to your prompt response, which I will advise now will be posted on the Thaivisa forum.

Regards

Great initiative!!!

With all my support!

.

From another Aussie ...........well done.

[reallyok]

Hi Bridge,

I'd just like to say thanks for your letter to the Australian Foreign Minister. I've taken the details and emailed him as well. Guess if more of us do this the more we can rock the boat.

So so sad I feel for his family, Wife and Unborn Child........ Andrew RIP

Emailed to

Dear Minister Smith,

Minister For Foreign Affairs - Leader of the House

[email protected]

By now you should no doubt be well aware of the tragic death of Mr. Andrew Oake (An Australian Citizen) in Thailand.

Since the incident only came to light today on a local Thailand expat forum (thaivisa.com) it has had nearly 8000 views in a very few short hours of time. By tomorrow, I would expect number to double at the very least. You can follow the current forum at:

As an Australian citizen (and ex-police officer) I find it repugnant and reprehensible that the Australian Government has not taken a more proactive stance with regards to the circumstances surrounding the death of Mr Oake. A Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT) spokeswoman said staff, "The cause of death is a matter for Thai authorities to determine," With respect Minister I find that response reprehensible. Do you honestly believe a fair, open and transparent investigation will take place into the death or Mr. Oake will take place? Of course it won’t.

I find it quite ironic that recent assault’s on Indians students in Australia were met with swift reaction by the Australia Government after condemnation by New Delhi, but incidents involving Australians abroad, in this case involving the death of an Australian citizen, receive such a mediocre response from the Australian Government.

Minister, I look forward to your prompt response, which I will advise now will be posted on the Thaivisa forum.

Regards

Great letter.. But if I may suggest.. You should send copies to the Leader of the Opposition, and the "Shadow" Foreign Minister as well if you want to really put pressure on.

Sorry, I'm not an Aussie, so I can't participate. But in Canada the best way to get action by the government is to involve the opposition party and get them on your side.

Best of Luck...

CS

He came from Adelaide, South Australia, so maybe the SA State government or his local MP ought to get a copy of this letter to Smith.

[reallyok]

Story does sound suspect to be TROLLISH. Why would they just hack him without trying to demand anything first? I'm guessing some words were exchanged of the unkind Bogan variety.

Yes of course because they'd act in a logical way wouldn't they.

If your intent is to rob and kill why say anything anyway?

Are you suggesting he said something "boganish" to annoy the machete wielders???

Blame the foreigner first no matter the evidence.

According to what his grandfather tells me, they were demanding the motorbike, but he was refusing................does that make sense to a couple of numbskulls in here ?

As i have said in another place,his grandfather, a friend of 60 years has promised me that he will get the name of the insurance company for me. When it comes i will post it.

[Asa]

It is sad to lose a life in this manner. An honest man died because he tried his best to follow the insurance guidance (and threat) to stay alive.

Yes, I think the attackers are local junkies, who can be identified and apprehened with little difficulty. Some pressure on Thai police could help. War on drugs is missed here.

[Lumumba]

Well I hope they catch the murdering thieves and lock them up with Big Dick Somchai or the Nigerians.

Most Kiwis in Thai forums have a thing or two for Nigerians.

No one deserves bodily harm for no fault of theirs. RIP young un'

[moetownblues]

Slashed with a machete? This is becoming like Somalia!

happens so often in the uk, that its never reported.

Yes very common in Melbourne also especially amongst the sudanese and vietnamese communities in Aust.

[reallyok]

Latest from Andrews grandad !

He tells me that the name of the insurance company is "COVER MORE" do any of you aussies in here know of this company.

[Deeral]

Not exactly vindication in glowing terms on the competence of Thai healthcare, is it?

Depends on where you are. Far out in the bush villages, just forget it! Don't go there! Even if you're fully insured up your ears, you can't find proper treatment. But here in my town 180 km east of Bangkok (population 60.000+), I've always received the best of care at the governmental ampur hospital. Friendly and competent doctors and nurses. Great stock of medicals. But US? No.. Even Canadians won't travel to US without a good travel insurance, which they don't need when only traveling at home. If you're without insurance in the US and seek medical care at a hospital, they put you in a cab which dumps you outside a charity hospital with very limited resources.

US has famously - or rather notoriously the worst healthcare system in the Westernised world.......but that in no way mitigates the Thai system - believe me (or not) when you go into your local hospital you enter a lottery.

[Tokay]

What a horrible and sad story.

Anyone know when the next firearm expo is hitting bangkok?