Thailand's Red Shirts Fighting The Government - Profile

[OzMick]

Have you noticed the use of the royal "we". We will sleep on the streets, we will fight to the death - meaning not us personally, the idiots we represent. The leaders consider themselves too important to lead from the front, let Nop the rice-farmer take a bullet, there's plenty more where he came from.

They also talk about the "murder" of innocent protesters, but when it comes to them, it is an "assassination" attempt. The new elite.

[Ricardo]

In the interests of fairness and balance the current Deputy PM is as dodgy as they come.

nolo contendere m'lud.

[473geo]

QUOTE (473geo @ 2010-04-18 12:44:02)

A law graduate

A political Science graduate

A seasoned political campaigner and masters graduate

A doctor

A popular entertainer turned to politics

A former MP from the North

People see what they look for.....

Actually, it's not what I see, which is decidedly unsavoury, but what I hear from these individuals that allows me to call them thugs. You should try listening to them...

Perhaps people standing in the front line with fellow peaceful demonstrators being shot around them......carry a different view to you about the way they persue their ideal!!!.........but as I say......people see what they look for......I prefer to look for solution,...... you appear to look to discredit, in an attempt to elevate by illusion......such is life.

[animatic]

I know many people with strong educations from life,

that have 'degrees' that never did them squat except pass an interviewer's critique.

Their strengths lay in things they learned on their own.

I know others with no degrees, but scads of practical and applied knowledge

and can think circles around grad students in their fields.

They get hired based on their output and not their papered past.

I know some others still with multiple degrees that are just serial students

and utter failures at most things life requires, failure to launch syndrome.

Much easier to hide in academia.

From all I have heard getting yourself a Thai degree is nearly as easy as applying for school.

Especially if you have 'friends'... and since no one is failed except the utter brain dead...

A Thai Uni Degree is not so prestigious a thing to tout about.

[mca]

^^^ My Latin talking dict has that as " Excuse me. Could you direct me to the nearest apothecary that sells haemorrhoid cream?" Ricardo mate.

I knew it was cheap at 199 baht but...

Edited April 18, 2010 by mca

[Jimmu]

Quote: G/Kid

Ah, but all seem to be significantly better educated than the angry failures in TVF that have heaped abuse and scorn on them.

Incorrect!

[animatic]

Methinks you're being too polite animatic mate. More along the lines of " Giving land titles to fat cat Phuket residents instead of the farmers they were supposed to go to leading to the dissolution of Parliament. "

He'd fit right in with Thaksin's posse.

In understand your land comment,

but not the bit about the farmers????

Edited April 18, 2010 by animatic

[mca]

I believe as Agriculture Minister Suthep was supposed to give title deeds to farmers under the land reform scheme. Sor Por Kor something or other.

[473geo]

I know many people with strong educations from life,

that have 'degrees' that never did them squat except pass an interviewer's critique.

Their strengths lay in things they learned on their own.

I know others with no degrees, but scads of practical and applied knowledge

and can think circles around grad students in their fields.

They get hired based on their output and not their papered past.

I know some others still with multiple degrees that are just serial students

and utter failures at most things life requires, failure to launch syndrome.

Much easier to hide in academia.

From all I have heard getting yourself a Thai degree is nearly as easy as applying for school.

Especially if you have 'friends'... and since no one is failed except the utter brain dead...

A Thai Uni Degree is not so prestigious a thing to tout about.

I acknowlege most of what you say.....but you spoil with the last paragraph.......suffice to say any university in the world enhances the funding and reputation by having a high pass rate.........While coursework is a basis for a high percentage of the pass mark, there will always be, in universities, a leaning towards more pass than failure. I will not go on and deviate from the topic by saying more.

[animatic]

I know many people with strong educations from life,

that have 'degrees' that never did them squat except pass an interviewer's critique.

Their strengths lay in things they learned on their own.

I know others with no degrees, but scads of practical and applied knowledge

and can think circles around grad students in their fields.

They get hired based on their output and not their papered past.

I know some others still with multiple degrees that are just serial students

and utter failures at most things life requires, failure to launch syndrome.

Much easier to hide in academia.

From all I have heard getting yourself a Thai degree is nearly as easy as applying for school.

Especially if you have 'friends'... and since no one is failed except the utter brain dead...

A Thai Uni Degree is not so prestigious a thing to tout about.

I acknowledge most of what you say.....but you spoil with the last paragraph.......suffice to say any university in the world enhances the funding and reputation by having a high pass rate.........While coursework is a basis for a high percentage of the pass mark, there will always be, in universities, a leaning towards more pass than failure. I will not go on and deviate from the topic by saying more.

Please reference the Thai Uni degree's value as addressed in dozens of threads on TVF

For example a Chula degree is better than most here, but is still not going to pass muster

for most credits going to transfer into Harvard. Many of these points are made by professors

from these same unis comparing them to western ones where THEY graduated.

I'll hire the guy with practical knowledge who LISTENS, versus the one with the great paper trail,

and little of practical value besides book learning and attitude.

[animatic]

I believe as Agriculture Minister Suthep was supposed to give title deeds to farmers under the land reform scheme. Sor Por Kor something or other.

I have heard rumors, but nothing particularly substantive on this.

Not defending him, just noting what I haven't seen.

Who's land reform scheme?

When? I haven't seen much farming on Phuket in any district.

And Suthep isn't from Phuket, but is from Surat Thani.

I have heard about Thaksin's hospital friends pulling land tricks on Samui,

but not Suthep, unless the old Ring Road cement rigging was included in that

and he got a cut. It was understood that Surat Thani did keep a disproportionate share of

Samui tax revenues returned from Bangkok, until Samui gained Municipality level recently.

Edited April 18, 2010 by animatic

[473geo]

I know many people with strong educations from life,

that have 'degrees' that never did them squat except pass an interviewer's critique.

Their strengths lay in things they learned on their own.

I know others with no degrees, but scads of practical and applied knowledge

and can think circles around grad students in their fields.

They get hired based on their output and not their papered past.

I know some others still with multiple degrees that are just serial students

and utter failures at most things life requires, failure to launch syndrome.

Much easier to hide in academia.

From all I have heard getting yourself a Thai degree is nearly as easy as applying for school.

Especially if you have 'friends'... and since no one is failed except the utter brain dead...

A Thai Uni Degree is not so prestigious a thing to tout about.

I acknowledge most of what you say.....but you spoil with the last paragraph.......suffice to say any university in the world enhances the funding and reputation by having a high pass rate.........While coursework is a basis for a high percentage of the pass mark, there will always be, in universities, a leaning towards more pass than failure. I will not go on and deviate from the topic by saying more.

Please reference the Thai Uni degree's value as addressed in dozens of threads on TVF

For example a Chula degree is better than most here, but is still not going to pass muster

for most credits going to transfer into Harvard. Many of these points are made by professors

from these same unis comparing them to western ones where THEY graduated.

I'll hire the guy with practical knowledge who LISTENS, versus the one with the great paper trail,

and little of practical value besides book learning and attitude.

Oh right........ so you were highlighting the type of person you would hire.......not trying to belittle the credentials of the red shirt leaders.....or indeed any other academia in Thailand!!. I apologise for interupting your 'who I would hire' thread.

I really think Thai professors educated abroad will not hold any bias!!...... I agree not many university educated Thai are likely to pass the Harvard course on 'Latin American and Iberian studies' - however they may well fare better on the 'East Asian Laguages and civilisations' course.....

Edited April 18, 2010 by 473geo

[Tod Daniels]

In the interests of fairness and balance the current Deputy PM is as dodgy as they come.

I don't believe Abhisit is as "dodgy as they come", as that could be a grossly oversimplified statement of thai politics. I do believe he's trying to hold together a tenuous coalition of political parties who have very dissimilar ideas about what way is the "real way" forward. What is immediately clear is that he's in a tough place and can't appease everyone of his political allies every whim.

Last time I checked, given how the Constitution currently in place is written; the Demz have the legal mandate thru holding a majority of MP's via coalition in the lower house to run the government. Last time elections were held no single political party got enough Lower House seats to hold a majority alone. They were forced into forming allegiances with a coalition of other smaller political parties. Samak and the old PPP didn't, nor did his replacement after he resigned; Somchai and neither did Abhisit.

Although we know the real deal clincher was banned politician Newin Chidchob, and about 32 odd MP's under his control via the "friends of Newin" power clique or the now Bhum-Jai-Thai (thai pride) Party. No small coincidence that it was those same MP's who gave Samak & Somchai the majority.

But of course as the redz spin it, then it was totally okay, politics as usual. No one cried the government was illegally elected without the people having a vote in deciding the PM. The thai people NEVER have a voice in 'electing a Prime Minister', and leave that up to the MP's they elected to represent them. But let’s not let facts cloud the red tinted P/R spin. Or bring up that Thaksin in a recorded message blasted the Newin group as 'traitors and betrayers of the people’ when he switched sides.

This is what lead to the vote in the Lower House on December 15 where 235 MPs voted for Abhisit versus 198 votes for Pracha Promnok endorsed by the pro-Thaksin party, PTP. That gave Abhisit, and the Democrat Party the majority and him becoming the new prime minister. One whose term isn’t officially up until the END of 2011, although for the good of the country he’s offered a much abbreviated timeline to dissolve the Lower House and call for elections, but of course, that’s not good enough, because everyone must bow to the radical demands of a minority of people over the wants of the majority of the country's populace.

If this is indeed what passes for democracy here, an intelligent person might be lead to believe that if the thais don't like the constitution, they would to lobby their elected MP's to change it (or vote 'em out next go round) much like a "real democracy" does things. If the same thais don't like whose in power, it could also behoove them to actually think about who and what they're voting for instead of a village voting just however the pu-yai-baan tells them or selling their vote. Then again, this being thailand, maybe not.

[mca]

I don't believe Abhisit is as "dodgy as they come", as that could be a grossly oversimplified statement of thai politics.

Who mentioned Abhisit?

I have heard rumors, but nothing particularly substantive on this.

Not defending him, just noting what I haven't seen.

Who's land reform scheme?

When? I haven't seen much farming on Phuket in any district.

And Suthep isn't from Phuket, but is from Surat Thani.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=437&...pg=6513,3728439

Makes interesting reading. There's a lot of stuff out there about this.

Plus of course there's his resignation as an MP over shares he held. He could still stay on a Deputy PM though.

This isn't me trying to justify the Red Shirt hierarchy. They're equally odious. It's just the comments along the lines of " who'd want them in charge of the country? " etc.

To be perfectly frank I wouldn't want any Thai politician in charge of my country. It's quite depressing really how shit floats here. We've all got folks we care for who are Thai. They deserve better than the motley bunch of politicians, cops, military etc. who run (or want to) the show. It's a never ending saga of power, snouts to the fore lads and f#ck everybody else. Back home they'd be lucky to get a job directing traffic in a car park. Sadly I'm not back home so have to watch the news every day with an incredulous <deleted> next on my face.

Edited April 18, 2010 by mca

[benthai98]

And the 'majority' of Thais are willing to put their country in these safe hands?

Bring on peace and prosperity for all !

I wouldn't say the 'majority of Thais'.

Just because the majority of the red shirts comes from the most highly populated area doesn't necessarily mean the majority of the most highly populated area supports the reds...

Although it might hold true in this case... :-)

[Neurath]

Methinks you're being too polite animatic mate. More along the lines of " Giving land titles to fat cat Phuket residents instead of the farmers they were supposed to go to leading to the dissolution of Parliament. "

He'd fit right in with Thaksin's posse.

Sure, and Thaksin even made an offer!

[moto77]

Just to refresh your memory,

Nelson Mandela was a convicted felon and a terrorist backed by the communist regime of the Soviet Union.

He got himself educated on Marxism Leninism( hard core Marxism) in his prison cell on the Robben Island which some call the Robben Island "University" now

Nice profile for a Nobel prize winner?

Well, think again

I don't think much of Mandela either. He may have been a great radical, but he nearly ruined the place as president. (Much like U.S. Grant was a great general, but horrible president.) Is there another example in modern history--besides South Africa--of a first world country becoming a third world country? Life expectancy, education, gender equity all down. Crime way up. GNI per capita is up slightly ONLY because of all of the foreign investment that flowed in after apartheid embargoes ended.

[moto77]

QUOTE (473geo @ 2010-04-18 12:44:02)

A law graduate

A political Science graduate

A seasoned political campaigner and masters graduate

A doctor

A popular entertainer turned to politics

A former MP from the North

Meaningless unless you know what school awarded those degrees. They could have been mail-ordered or they could be from Harvard; we don't know.

Abhisit's Bachelor's and Master's degrees were from Oxford in Political Science and Economics, and and he graduated with highest honors in both.

And I've found over the years that the people that whine the most about university degrees being useless, generally don't have one (or they have one from a crappy school), and they are pi$$ed at the world because they don't have the same opportunities as those with degrees. All the "practical experience" in the world does not replace a degree. Ask just about any for-profit business that hires college graduates over experienced non-grads. Ask the army, which gives a lieutenant with a degree and one year of experience a higher rank than a 20-year veteran sergeant major with no degree who will never be promoted to officer status no matter how much experience he garners. There is a reason for that: Practical experience teaches you to keep doing the same thing you have always done, but much more efficiently. A degree teaches people how to think; how to come up with new ways of doing things; how to deal with new situations. Hopefully that lieutenant listens to his sergeant when he needs to do something that has been done before. But--equally important--hopefully he trusts his instincts when a truly new situation arises.

A degree does not replace experience, but experience does not replace a degree.

Edited April 19, 2010 by moto77

[yoshiwara]

A law graduate

A political Science graduate

A seasoned political campaigner and masters graduate

A doctor

A popular entertainer turned to politics

A former MP from the North

People see what they look for.....

Ah,

but greed and mental illness don't make class and education distinctions.

Ah, but all seem to be significantly better educated than the angry failures in TVF that have heaped abuse and scorn on them. First the hate brigade, claimed they were uneducated rural bumpkins. Then they were political opportunists, and now the claim is hardcore political idealogues. Know what I see? People that have been working for their beliefs and making sacrifices for a long time. Ridicule them all you want, but they are tough, cunning and resourceful. Know what else,? They can go the distance and won't collapse in a whimpering heap like so many of the angry folks pretending to be ex special forces, decorated commandos, spooks and "experts". Know the enemy. Respect the enemy's strengths. Failure to do so, usually results in defeat, no matter how right one may think his side is.

You forgot to mention they are also wanted criminals that have all broken the law... regardless of their educations and/or other skills... this fact should be noted above all. They don't respect the law, yet they want the law to respect them. Funny that, huh?

They are well-paid hacks for Thaksin.

We know who they are

And whom (not what) they stand for.

What they stand for is whatever Thaksin pushes their way.

The rest is thuggery.

[RussellHantz]

Abhisit is obviously trying to distance himself from responsibility by going to hua hin for a holiday and handing the reigns over to the military, who are ready to spill blood. He is not fooling anyone.

Abhisit is one of those people in life who seems to think stubbornness is a substitute for strength, actually he is simply weak.

The military should have learned their lesson from 2006 that force only exasperates the situation. They wont be able to control the backlash from the reds, and internal factions within the military.

[geriatrickid]

I know many people with strong educations from life,

that have 'degrees' that never did them squat except pass an interviewer's critique.

Their strengths lay in things they learned on their own.

I know others with no degrees, but scads of practical and applied knowledge

and can think circles around grad students in their fields.

They get hired based on their output and not their papered past.

I know some others still with multiple degrees that are just serial students

and utter failures at most things life requires, failure to launch syndrome.

Much easier to hide in academia.

From all I have heard getting yourself a Thai degree is nearly as easy as applying for school.

Especially if you have 'friends'... and since no one is failed except the utter brain dead...

A Thai Uni Degree is not so prestigious a thing to tout about.

Should General Anapong return his undergrad diploma to the University? He graduated from the big R, the university that serves the poor as they say in Thailand. It is likely that some of the Redshirt provincial leaders may very well have been classmates or alumni. The General is quite proud of his diploma too.

[anotherpeter]

Abhisit is obviously trying to distance himself from responsibility by going to hua hin for a holiday and handing the reigns over to the military, who are ready to spill blood. He is not fooling anyone.

Abhisit is one of those people in life who seems to think stubbornness is a substitute for strength, actually he is simply weak.

The military should have learned their lesson from 2006 that force only exasperates the situation. They wont be able to control the backlash from the reds, and internal factions within the military.

Yes, Hua Hin ... distance ... right ...

[traderjm]

Abhisit is obviously trying to distance himself from responsibility by going to hua hin for a holiday and handing the reigns over to the military, who are ready to spill blood. He is not fooling anyone.

Abhisit is one of those people in life who seems to think stubbornness is a substitute for strength, actually he is simply weak.

The military should have learned their lesson from 2006 that force only exasperates the situation. They wont be able to control the backlash from the reds, and internal factions within the military.

Goodness there sure seems to be a lot of very new members of TV that have nothing of value to add but continue to add it anyway

[animatic]

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=437&...pg=6513,3728439

Makes interesting reading. There's a lot of stuff out there about this.

Plus of course there's his resignation as an MP over shares he held. He could still stay on a Deputy PM though.

This isn't me trying to justify the Red Shirt hierarchy. They're equally odious. It's just the comments along the lines of " who'd want them in charge of the country? " etc.

To be perfectly frank I wouldn't want any Thai politician in charge of my country. It's quite depressing really how shit floats here. We've all got folks we care for who are Thai. They deserve better than the motley bunch of politicians, cops, military etc. who run (or want to) the show. It's a never ending saga of power, snouts to the fore lads and f#ck everybody else. Back home they'd be lucky to get a job directing traffic in a car park. Sadly I'm not back home so have to watch the news every day with an incredulous <deleted> next on my face.

Yes interesting reading. 1996 rehashing 1992-1994

He was only Deputy Agriculture Minister.

It also seems to say many farmers did get titles through his project,

but some in Phuket jiggered the system, SOP Thai big wigs.

No where does it say Suthep actually had any hand in this.

It does indicate local Land Offices certainly did find loopholes in there laws.

Seems to me pushing through a good law to help farmers,

that is not thought through enough to not have any loop holes,

is so standard in Thai political circles that it is de facrto standard.

Doesn't mean his political opposites won't take him to task,

even if they themselves voted yea on the bill at the time.

I notice at the time of the attacks on him it was :

Prime Minister Banharm,

Deputy PM Samak Sundjarev

JUSTICE Minister Chalerm....!

Same old players different seats. Why does THIS not surprise.

3 years later same players in TRT under Thasksin.

And Banharn was bringing this up 14 days before the election. Mud slinging.

It was old news then and on the same page it shows

Chat Thai (Banharn) and the Dems were in serious election slash and burn mode.

The attorney general essentially said there was

no proof of illegal intent UNDER THE LAWS OF THE TIME.

So cut the feet out from under their election month argument.

Of course it is now brought up any time Suthep's name is brought up.

I agree his holding shares deserved resigning from MP status.

Which he did. Dept PM need not have MP status and so he kept the job.

We've all got folks we care for who are Thai.

They deserve better than the motley bunch of politicians, cops, military etc. who run (or want to) the show.

Can't disagree with that. Seems the same in most lands.

[animatic]

I know many people with strong educations from life,

that have 'degrees' that never did them squat except pass an interviewer's critique.

Their strengths lay in things they learned on their own.

I know others with no degrees, but scads of practical and applied knowledge

and can think circles around grad students in their fields.

They get hired based on their output and not their papered past.

I know some others still with multiple degrees that are just serial students

and utter failures at most things life requires, failure to launch syndrome.

Much easier to hide in academia.

From all I have heard getting yourself a Thai degree is nearly as easy as applying for school.

Especially if you have 'friends'... and since no one is failed except the utter brain dead...

A Thai Uni Degree is not so prestigious a thing to tout about.

Should General Anapong return his undergrad diploma to the University? He graduated from the big R, the university that serves the poor as they say in Thailand. It is likely that some of the Redshirt provincial leaders may very well have been classmates or alumni. The General is quite proud of his diploma too.

The only one this comes to mind for is Jatuporn.

Never said return their diplomas of course. You added that bit.

In this, always pass no matter what, so face isn't lost culture,

some people really don't seem like they have LEARNED what was taught.

If Veera is a Lawyer he has a weird way of supporting the law, as should be expected.

Weng is a Phd, so calling him simply 'Doctor', implying MD is incorrect.

It should have said Phd.

Edited April 19, 2010 by animatic

[RussellHantz]

It should have said Phd.

(PhD)

[Maestro]

Protester's sacrifices

From the soundtrack:

...She tells us she had to go to the red-shirt demonstration, even if it was only for a few days and even if it impacted her income...

-- CNN 2010-04-20

[SpoliaOpima]

Have you noticed the use of the royal "we". We will sleep on the streets, we will fight to the death - meaning not us personally, the idiots we represent. The leaders consider themselves too important to lead from the front, let Nop the rice-farmer take a bullet, there's plenty more where he came from.

They also talk about the "murder" of innocent protesters, but when it comes to them, it is an "assassination" attempt. The new elite.

The Reds also cheered every time a soldier was killed on the 10th. How peaceful.

[brd199]

So let me get this straight.

The six main Red Shirt leaders include:

- A veteran politician who has twice served time in prison. Once for backing a failed military coup and once for insulting the country's monarchy. Despite this and being banned from politics for five years for electoral fraud in 2007 he is a red shirt leader.

- Jatuporn Prompan,who has parliamentary immunity from arrest.

- Nattawut Saikuar who failed to win an election again during the 2007 post-coup poll.

- Doctor Weng Tojirakarn who has a tendency to talk in terms of old Maoist guerrilla tactics , fled into the jungle after a student-led communist uprising in 1976, involved in"Bloody May and joined the anti-Reds "People's Alliance for Democracy"

- An ex- pop singer who led the Red Shirts to storm a regional summit in April 2009 and who dramatically escaped a Bangkok hotel by climbing down an electricity cable, claiming he had survived an assassination attempt.

- And the"Rambo of Isaan" a hard-core activist who attacked the prime minister's car .

I understand Issan Rambo was convicted today and sentenced to a year in prison.

The spitting image of a chiseled Slyvester Stallone in his prime did have his prison sentence suspended, however

http://www.dailynews.co.th/newstartpage/in...contentID=61224

[pedro01]

So let me get this straight.

The six main Red Shirt leaders include:

- A veteran politician who has twice served time in prison. Once for backing a failed military coup and once for insulting the country's monarchy. Despite this and being banned from politics for five years for electoral fraud in 2007 he is a red shirt leader.

- Jatuporn Prompan,who has parliamentary immunity from arrest.

- Nattawut Saikuar who failed to win an election again during the 2007 post-coup poll.

- Doctor Weng Tojirakarn who has a tendency to talk in terms of old Maoist guerrilla tactics , fled into the jungle after a student-led communist uprising in 1976, involved in"Bloody May and joined the anti-Reds "People's Alliance for Democracy"

- An ex- pop singer who led the Red Shirts to storm a regional summit in April 2009 and who dramatically escaped a Bangkok hotel by climbing down an electricity cable, claiming he had survived an assassination attempt.

- And the"Rambo of Isaan" a hard-core activist who attacked the prime minister's car .

I understand Issan Rambo was convicted today and sentenced to a year in prison.

The spitting image of a chiseled Slyvester Stallone in his prime did have his prison sentence suspended, however

http://www.dailynews.co.th/newstartpage/in...contentID=61224

Some relation ?