El Sapo Salsa.

[NanaFoods]

Chef Heat.

I am always on the lookout for Enchalada Sauce.

Wondering if there is a market for that product?

In development. I hope to test the market perhaps by next year.

[theseahorse]

Its not the toxicity that is the biggest issue, though it is a neurotoxin, some call it an excitotoxin as it stimulates pleasure centers in the brain and causes people to eat more - which is how and why people can become addicted to food that contains it - such as junk food.

But, the main concern seems to be with connections to obesity -- search "MSG Obese Rat."

here is one study's abstract:

http://www.sciencedi...e540cae8b0facb0

This is a cheap way to make obese rats for lab studies on obesity, diabetes, and other related health problems.

Glutamates occur in nature, sure, but there is a difference with "free glutamates".

I apologise for going off topic and talking about MSG on a thread about your sauces, but giving MSG to rats is just a way of making them obese so scientists can do experiments on rats as they wouldn't ever normally be obese. So they give them a very high dosage to get them to eat more.

Firstly there is NO difference in the way the body treats free glutimates and the gulimates in MSG. Glutimates make us want to eat more, whether they have been processed or whether they are naturally in the food we eat they do the same thing, they both stimulate the brain and make us want to eat more, thats why it's in human breast milk.

It's not the MSG in a pack of Doritoes that make people obeses, it's opening a second bag that does it. I'm not denying that the reason some people decide to open a second huge bag is because of the additives like MSG, but look around you, here in Asia where MSG is thrown into everything people are tiny, how many obese people do you see each day here? Then look at places like the states where people are so paranoid about MSG and it isn't used anywhere near as much as it is here and half the country is obese. I don't feel that it's the fault of MSG for a countries bad eating habits. The truth is NO scientist as ever found that MSG is any worse for you than the glutimates we all eat every day. Yes, it makes you want to eat more, but there's no difference between someone who just can't put the bag of Doritoes down and me cutting myself another slice of cheese even though I know I'm full.

I'm not a fan of additives in anyway and eat as much fresh food as possible as I'm not convinced that half of what goes into mass produced foods are good for us, but the truth is MSG has been test so many times without anyone finding anything harmful with it, the salt in a pack of crisps does more harm than the MSG does.

Here's a link to a good balanced article about MSG and the history of the paranoia - http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2005/jul/10/foodanddrink.features3

[NanaFoods]

but the truth is MSG has been test so many times without anyone finding anything harmful with it,

What you say in quotes above is categorically incorrect.

I thought exactly the same as you do up until about 3-months ago, when I started researching the matter.

That's when, for the first time in my life, I suffered some very strange, and extremely uncomfortable ill effects from MSG after a wedding meal.

Yes, I am 100% certain it was the MSG. I have never been allergic to MSG, and it wasn't an allergic reaction I suffered... it was an overdose.

And that's the crux of the issue. We get enough glutamates from nature and the body's own production, adding more by 1000 or more mg per day has been shown to have adverse effects. That and it exacerbates certain existing disorders.

MSG kills brain cells and causes a variety of adverse reactions.

It doesn't matter if you call it "umami" or not.

November 21, 2009 - the FDA has just approved Abilify to treat autism symptoms.

This GLUTAMATE BLOCKER is now being used to treat autism.

Here's a link to a good balanced article about MSG and the history of the paranoia - http://www.guardian....drink.features3

Hardly balanced.

The article reads like a PR piece for the MSG industry.

Alex Renton is a globalist, but by all means, you're entitled to believe him.

Interestingly, all the links at the bottom of the article warn of the dangers of MSG,

except one (www.food.gov.uk), which does not link to anything specific.

Endocrine disorders; conditions such as GROSS OBESITY, stunted growth, LEARNING DISABILITIES, and behavior disorders caused by MSG-induced damage to the endocrine system; and glaucoma and RETINAL DEGENERATION (possibly leading to blindness) are not classified as "adverse reactions." When caused by MSG, their roots lie in the destruction of brain cells, possibly years before gross obesity, stunted growth, learning disabilities, behavior disorders, and/or retinal degeneration are first observed. Research confirming that MSG consumed by laboratory animals causes brain lesions in the area of the hypothalamus has been replicated many times. Research that has claimed to find that MSG is "safe" has always been seriously flawed; and has always been financed, directly or indirectly, by the glutamate industry.

Obesity, reproductive disorders, and learning impairment, that sometimes become obvious only after puberty, may have their origins in neuroendocrine dysfunction caused by exposure of infants and small children to MSG.

All the quotes above, other than yours and mine, are from links at the bottom of the article that you cited.

BTW - I am not the only one who has notice in Asia people are indeed getting fatter. The pudunk town I live in is full of obese Thai people, and there is not a KFC here. Even my wife has noticed.

Also, check the stats on China.

http://www.usatoday....e-obesity_x.htm

Edited August 19, 2010 by ChefHeat

[theseahorse]

The problem with researching MSG is that there is a lot of people out there determinded to prove that there is something wrong with it, so you end up with a lot of bias results, all the websites that you quoted are from people who are doing everything they can to prove MSG is bad, I admit there is also the properganda from companies like Aginomoto too, but the article I posted just stated facts from both anti MSG sites and pro MSG sites, thats what makes it a balanced article. You prove this yourself by quoting the websites he's told you to look at.

You obviously had a bad personal experince with MSG and I have no doubt that you are correct that your symptoms were due to the MSG, but this is only due to a very bad chef who added far far to much of it. It's no difference to having had food poisioning due to a bad chefs lack of hygeine. If someone doesn't cure meat correctly then there's a chance you could get botulisum, but it doesn't mean we should all stop eating cured meats.

I agree people are starting to get larger in Asia, but do you really think thats because of MSG? Surely, they've only been getting larger since they've been eating a more western style diet. You may not have a KFC in you town, but every 7-11 is full of western style foods and I'm yet to find a place in Thailand without a 7-11 or a Family Mart.

And yes, we do already have enough glutimates in our diet, if we eat a balanced diet. If we eat junk food all day then maybe we're getting a few to many, but the amount of fat and salt and everything else that goes into a big mac should be worrying you more if you live of junk food.

The whole MSG debate is something that interests me and some of the articles you've posted do have some valid points, but no one denys that in excess it does stange things to us, but too many of the sites are just so sensational I can't take them seriously. When researching anything your facts need to come from a good un-bias source and that is a very hard thing to do when reading up online about MSG.

But here's the most recent report I can find that comes from un-bias testing of MSG. It's from the UK's Committee of Toxicity of Chemicals in Food and has been taken from the FDA's www.food.gov.uk website (the one you claimed linked to nothing specfic!)

I hope you'll agree that this is a fair, un-bias test, not funded by a MSG manufacturer like the websites you quote suggested or by a scientist wanting to make their name by proving that MSG is the reason people are obese.

COT view. Assessment of MSG assumes that the sodium salt behaves in

the same way as the glutamate derived from dietary protein breakdown.

Glutamate is a neuroactive compound and can cross the blood-brain

barrier and placenta. Hence there is potential for brain exposure at all

developmental stages. However, glutamate is present in normal blood and

brain, and brain levels are well controlled by active physiological

regulation, so there is unlikely to be a hazard at realistic dose levels.

Neurotoxic effects have been seen in animal studies but only at very high

doses, often administered by s.c. injection. Such high doses would be

expected to overcome physiological regulation of brain glutamate

concentration. There is a substantial body of work investigating MSG at

lower doses with no indication of any adverse effects, as well as extensive

human exposure data.

Anyway, I'm feeling guilty about turning this thread about your delicious sauces into a discussion on MSG. So to get back on topic-

Powderpuff - Tops do sell El Charro corn chips, they're just not with the rest of the chips. There is a display of them near the veg in both of the Tops I use.

Edited August 19, 2010 by theseahorse

[bangsaenguy]

Chef Heat.

I am always on the lookout for Enchalada Sauce.

Wondering if there is a market for that product?

In development. I hope to test the market perhaps by next year.

Any plans to market green enchilada sauce? A must have for chicken enchiladas. I work abroad mostly and buy it to bring home.

[NanaFoods]

Chef Heat.

I am always on the lookout for Enchalada Sauce.

Wondering if there is a market for that product?

In development. I hope to test the market perhaps by next year.

Any plans to market green enchilada sauce? A must have for chicken enchiladas. I work abroad mostly and buy it to bring home.

I have a verde sauce in development as well, but will likely test the market with the red first.

If that goes well, then we will go forward with the green.

[Ulysses G.]

I agree people are starting to get larger in Asia, but do you really think thats because of MSG? Surely, they've only been getting larger since they've been eating a more western style diet. You may not have a KFC in you town, but every 7-11 is full of western style foods and I'm yet to find a place in Thailand without a 7-11 or a Family Mart.

It is not because of Western food or MSG, it is because they are eating a lot more meat and fried snacks than they used to because Thai incomes are higher. They have always used MSG and very few Thais eat much Western food, but they eating a lot richer Thai food and more fried junk than in the past.

[powderpuff]

I tried your red salsa sauce.

The good. Tastes great.

The bad. Very expensive.

You don'y need to go into detail but I'm guessing the gross margins are amazing. Like 100%.

I will buy it. I will use it.

But it's just as dear as imported stuff .

No offense .

[NanaFoods]

I tried your red salsa sauce.

The good. Tastes great.

The bad. Very expensive.

You don'y need to go into detail but I'm guessing the gross margins are amazing. Like 100%.

I will buy it. I will use it.

But it's just as dear as imported stuff .

No offense .

Imports I've seen are well over 100 baht for the same size (such as Doritos brand).

Though some have slightly bigger jars - those I've seen tend to range from 130-160 baht (Chi-Chi's, Old El Paso, others).

How much did you pay and where did you buy the El Sapo?

Should be around 75 baht.

[powderpuff]

149 at all branches of Villa.

[ACMIKE]

Not sure but I think I paid 69 at Friendship in Pattaya

[NanaFoods]

149 at all branches of Villa.

Could it be you are mistaken?

Perhaps they had the tags on the shelf misaligned, and what you saw was for another product?

What does your receipt say?

Can you scan it and PM to me?

Edit: My wife has a meeting with Villa today, actually.

I asked her to let them check their pricing system while there.

Edited August 30, 2010 by ChefHeat

[NanaFoods]

OK, well, my wife just informed me that she checked at Villa while there on other business.

The shelf tag says 74 baht for El Sapo.

She confirmed the same in their system by having the clerk scan the barcode, and it came up 74.

All branches are on the same barcode system - so if it is right at one branch, it is right at all of them.

My wife did mention, however, that she saw Doritos Salsa selling for 149 baht - the same price mentioned above.

So it seems a case of mistaken identity.

[powderpuff]

Yeah I got cheated by Villa Market.

Will scan receipt.

[powderpuff]

see attached

[powderpuff]

El Sabor

Never saw your product yet.

[NanaFoods]

El Sabor

Never saw your product yet.

Is this what you bought?

Ours look like these

Edited August 31, 2010 by ChefHeat

[theseahorse]

I've been on the look out for your El Sapo salsa's too. But all I could find where the usual Dorito's etc and the El Sabor variety. It crossed my mind whether it was yours and I'd got the name wrong, but having had a closer look I didn't think you would produce something that looks that disgusting and fake. It's a shame that such an inferior product has such a similar name to yours.

Just so you are aware, I've looked in three Tops and two Villas in BKK and there's no El Sapo avaliable, but a shelf full of El Sabor. Hopefully I'll get to try it soon.

[NanaFoods]

I've been on the look out for your El Sapo salsa's too. But all I could find where the usual Dorito's etc and the El Sabor variety. It crossed my mind whether it was yours and I'd got the name wrong, but having had a closer look I didn't think you would produce something that looks that disgusting and fake. It's a shame that such an inferior product has such a similar name to yours.

Just so you are aware, I've looked in three Tops and two Villas in BKK and there's no El Sapo avaliable, but a shelf full of El Sabor. Hopefully I'll get to try it soon.

Unfortunately, Tops doesn't carry El Sapo at the moment, and just two flavors of our pasta sauce.

There are a few Villa markets that may not carry El Sapo - the ones with predominantly Thai clientele.

But most other should have it. Perhaps try the larger branches or ones in more farang-busy areas.

You might also ask your nearest Villa manager to check his stock and/or request he order some...

Thanks for your perseverance.

EDIT: By the way, these branches just ordered --

Villa Sukhuvit 33, Ambassador(sukhumvit11), Phahol Yothin Road, Ari, Thonglor(Sukhumvit55), Nichada (Nonthaburi), Langsuan Road, Grand Canal (Nonthaburi), Pattaya, Huanhin, Jangwattana, Kasetnawamin, and Phuket.

Edited September 1, 2010 by ChefHeat