Thai PM Abhisit Vows To Retake Bangkok Protest Site

[Mosha]

We only have Thaksin's word for it he's not dead. I mean he's apolitician, can we believe him?

[animatic]

Well I see the border police in Phitsanaloke broke through the red blockade in a baton charge. Wonder if this signals a change in police tactics.

I suspect it does.

And with a realization that the civil war has just gone national and not just Bangkok.

The game has changed, as soon as the reds realized Anupong WOULD start moving,

they went to plan B, after a few trial balloons. Now it will be roving bands of reds,

causing general disorder and an sense of anarchy to blame the government for.

And assorted guerilla units attacking infrastructure and political targets,

including leaders I suspect. Attacking Banharn's is not isolated.

Sobering thought, n'est pas?

And as they disperse, the zealotry will remain, but the organizational communication

and control will diminish, the aggression and madness not a whit...

At this point I think it IS civil war, but the tag has not officially been attached.

It's well and truly beyond the Issan genie of political awareness being out of the bottle.

It is the wound up zealotry of the many victims of a a political hatchet job's perpetrators

that is now likely to spin out of control of any one leader, such as the recently silent Veera.

Nuttawhat and Jatuporn are reveling in the power trip, and it has caught them up...

But like D'anton and Robespierre the very success of their enterprise may bring them

to a sticky end, and at the hands of their own. Arismman... jeeze....

going down in flames of glory comes to mind...

"LOOK MA! TOP OF THE WORLD!" ( Cagney in Public Enemy)

Thanks you Mr. Thaksin, you have done so much for Thailand, you deserve FULL credit.

Edited April 26, 2010 by animatic

[erobando]

I have very limited connection to foreign websites (e.g., no Yahoo, facebook, etc.). Anyone else experiencing this?

Sabatoge, an ongoing goverment crackdown or just paranoia?

I'll subscribe to all 3, thanks.

[earthpig]

"In northeastern Ubon Ratchathani, some 3,000 protesters took into custody seven people from Ratchathani Asok community accusing them of being security guards for the pro-government group People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD).

The community is a branch of Santi Asok which belongs to PAD leader Chamlong Srimuang. Before leaving, the protesters set on flame a model ancient ship displayed in the community. The seven hostages were held at a radio station in the province. Police were unlikely to take any action as the protesters outnumbered them."

We have certainly moved beyond a mere protest.

Is this a revolt, a rebellion, or as some posters above claim, civil war?

Personally i wouldnt rate it higher yet than a revolt. If we start to see significant numbers of army and police switch sides, then i suppose we would have reached rebellion.

As for civil war, Im not up to contemplating that.

[animatic]

I have very limited connection to foreign websites (e.g., no Yahoo, facebook, etc.). Anyone else experiencing this?

Sabatoge, an ongoing goverment crackdown or just paranoia?

I'll subscribe to all 3, thanks.

I can see almost anything I want to look at.

Not even paranoia, just a very bad internet connection.

[erobando]

I have very limited connection to foreign websites (e.g., no Yahoo, facebook, etc.). Anyone else experiencing this?

Sabatoge, an ongoing goverment crackdown or just paranoia?

I'll subscribe to all 3, thanks.

I can see almost anything I want to look at.

Not even paranoia, just a very bad internet connection.

That's good to know, I guess it's just the TOT Shirts.

[jcbangkok]

I have very limited connection to foreign websites (e.g., no Yahoo, facebook, etc.). Anyone else experiencing this?

Sabatoge, an ongoing goverment crackdown or just paranoia?

I'll subscribe to all 3, thanks.

I can see almost anything I want to look at.

Not even paranoia, just a very bad internet connection.

That's good to know, I guess it's just the TOT Shirts.

Internet currently extremely slow

[ozzieman05]

It's a bit like the kids nursery rhyme - "the wheels on the bus go round and round, round round , round round, the wheels on the bus go round and round all day long".

Simple solution - seal off the protest site nothing in only people out, shut down the power supply and the water, they are Thai aren't they, after missing 1 or 2 meals they will stream out of the protest area looking for food - easy way to bring a quick bloodless end to the problem.

The issue then becomes .. what do you do with the few hundred thousand people that live in the area while you wait them out? How do you peacefully prevent water and food getting in? What do you do about the hospitals in the area?

I agree that tightening the controls on getting in and out would be a beginning. Taking the names and photos of all people leaving the area for potential use in prosecutions would be a good idea as well. At some point all you will have left in the area is the most violent subset of the reds and enough riot troops backed by snipers could hem them in totally. It would still be way too expensive in the cost of human lives and property damage to move that violent core group out but time would wear them down.

And a good old Mock attack by the army every 2 -3 hrs would help

Get ready they are coming

No they are not

Get ready they are coming

No they are not

Get ready they are coming

No they are not

Get ready they are coming

Go away and wake me up when the fat lady sings

[blaze]

The thai judicial system is primarily concerned with social harmony- that is the Chinese confucist legacy. Not individual 'justice'.

In the interest of restoring harmonious relationships among all Thais, a quick judicial decision to junk the Dems may come sooner than later- and all else becomes moot.

That is--- if recent history is a guide.

Edited April 26, 2010 by blaze

[siampolee]

Thaksin: "this is my country ... I am now Montenegrin."

Well well the truth is out. Thasin has after all his exhortations decided he has had enough of Thailand and all those poor souls he has duped into his cause are left in the lurch.

Wonder how long before the likes of Jutaporn, Arisiman, Veera and Weng flee the scene leaving the little people to take the can back for them ?

[bkkjames]

Just watching the news and refreshing to see the police / army arresting some black shirts guards /(enter your own word here) and leading them away in handcuffs.

[thunder30101]

Havent they been having a mock attack for over a month ? lol but i think the pm really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really means business this time lol

[hammered]

The thai judicial system is primarily concerned with social harmony- that is the Chinese confucist legacy. Not individual 'justice'.

In the interest of restoring harmonious relationships among all Thais, a quick judicial decision to junk the Dems may come sooner than later- and all else becomes moot.

That is--- if recent history is a guide.

That alone leaves no equilibrium. It needs to be balanced with something

[erobando]

The thai judicial system is primarily concerned with social harmony- that is the Chinese confucist legacy. Not individual 'justice'.

In the interest of restoring harmonious relationships among all Thais, a quick judicial decision to junk the Dems may come sooner than later- and all else becomes moot.

That is--- if recent history is a guide.

Yeah, yesterday I thought the whole Reds-changing-shirt-colors thing was the Thai Political Way for the protest to end without anyone losing face.

For the Red Shirt Leaders, they aren't giving up the fight but taking it "underground."

For Abhisit, he wouldn't be "giving in to terrorists." After a few weeks of calm, they announce an election date or the Democrats get dissolved.

Also, no need for the Yellow Shirts to come out.

Perfect solution for everyone and everything is fine until after the next election result.

Now I'm beginning to think I was wrong, though.

[Mekhong]

THE NATION: Thaksin: "this is my country ... I am now Montenegrin."

That's grand. Hope he stays there. I am now mountin' a grin too then

[erobando]

The thai judicial system is primarily concerned with social harmony- that is the Chinese confucist legacy. Not individual 'justice'.

In the interest of restoring harmonious relationships among all Thais, a quick judicial decision to junk the Dems may come sooner than later- and all else becomes moot.

That is--- if recent history is a guide.

That alone leaves no equilibrium. It needs to be balanced with something

I don't think blaze is claiming it's either a good or bad thing.

[Farangdong]

You people should be ashamed of yourselves.

We are talking about an ARMY possibly slaughtering civilians who are armed with just sticks and rocks for self-defence.

I'll bet none of you know the history of the Thammasat students who were slaughtered in 1976.

Have you seen the pictures or the video?

What is wrong with you people?

Are your business interests at stake or what?

You should be held as guilty as those who may possibly murder many innocent men, women, and children.

Why don't you go back to your home countries and kill your own people.

Totally agree with you mate. Some of the posts made on this site are completely disgusting. Like blood lust crazies it's as if they can't wait to see the army slaughtering men woman and children. What sort of people frequent this site? Personally it leaves a very bad taste in my mouth when I read such hate filled rhetoric. Sad, so very sad.

I agree too.

I partly agree, but the children have nothing to do with this and should not be there... if any children will die or be injured all the blame will be on their parents. Stop.

[blaze]

The thai judicial system is primarily concerned with social harmony- that is the Chinese confucist legacy. Not individual 'justice'.

In the interest of restoring harmonious relationships among all Thais, a quick judicial decision to junk the Dems may come sooner than later- and all else becomes moot.

That is--- if recent history is a guide.

That alone leaves no equilibrium. It needs to be balanced with something

It might be enough for all sides (except poor old Abhisit) to declare win-win. Then- well- what do you think Hammered? A caretaker gov't tasked with setting up new elections? What are the possibilities in the eventuality of the Dems being fast tracked to oblivion?

Oddly enough- this would be the scenario that some in the PAD=- who have never trusted politics- anybody's politics- (ahh the good old days- 1931) would welcome.

An 'appointed cabinet'- till such time as the few remaining non-barred (read useless) politicos can present some kind of a charade that passes for modern democracy?

Seriously Hammered, what do you think the upshot would be in the event the dems are dissolved and their leadership put out of play for a few years?

Edited April 26, 2010 by blaze

[blaze]

I partly agree, but the children have nothing to do with this and should not be there... if any children will die or be injured all the blame will be on their parents. Stop.

Where are children? Have you been to the sites in the last few days? I think the demographic might surprise you. I'm not saying there are no children- but if they are there- they are well out of view. That I can tell you.

[Farangdong]

I partly agree, but the children have nothing to do with this and should not be there... if any children will die or be injured all the blame will be on their parents. Stop.

Where are children? Have you been to the sites in the last few days? I think the demographic might surprise you. I'm not saying there are no children- but if they are there- they are well out of view. That I can tell you.

No I've never been to the sites, also because I'm not even in Thailand.

Anyway, if there are no children much, much better... I was just answering to the post were children have been mentioned as possible victims of a crackdown.

[wedders]

Reading TV over the years, I'm starting to wonder if a key reason for the increasingly tough visa regulations is that the Thai authorities regularly read this forum, and have come to the conclusion that its more outspoken members represent a fair cross-section of farang expats or would-be expats.

Who I am to argue against that theory. I could try, but I wouldn't sound too convincing.

An unbelievably high proportion of gung-ho comments and noisy, simplistic polemics from all sides, although I appreciate the silent majority may have more measured opinions.

[brahmburgers]

You people should be ashamed of yourselves. We are talking about an ARMY possibly slaughtering civilians who are armed with just sticks and rocks for self-defence.

I'm about as serious about cracking down strong as anyone else on this thread, yet I'm not at all in favor of 'slaughtering civilians' (as you put it). Your alarmist rhetoric might be fun to rouse up Red apologists, but it's way overboard.

Let's get one thing straight. Whether you choose to believe the photos and the reports of Red-instigated shooting is your choice. I believe it, and a recent photo further reinforced it. It showed two men dressed in black carrying bags which had to contain guns - the bags were shaped like automatic weapons and were bulging in all the right places. Milling all around the two black-shrowded men were Red shirts. The farang who took the photo says he was detained for an hour by angrye Reds, but was able to escape with the photo. There are other photos, but more telling perhaps are reports of automatic gunfire and grenades launched from within the Red barricades. I'm in favor of authorities coming down like a ton of bricks on those who have lethal weapons and are eager to use them, ....a lot more lethal than your poetic 'sticks and rocks' - though even sticks and rocks can be lethal, particularly when launched en masse.

If civilians/Reds/no-colors are harboring and aiding killers, then it's tough tamales if some of those protesters get caught in the melee which is looking more inevitable day by day. Indeed, a concerted crackdown should have happened much earlier, so Reds can be eternally grateful that there's a meek PM in power, presiding over meek security forces, devoid of effective tactics.

[Jingthing]

Modern terrorists tend to hide behind civilians. That is their way. Then when they are attacked and innocent people get killed, they gain propaganda fodder.

[brahmburgers]

Reading TV over the years, I'm starting to wonder if a key reason for the increasingly tough visa regulations is that the Thai authorities regularly read this forum, and have come to the conclusion that its more outspoken members represent a fair cross-section of farang expats or would-be expats.

Who I am to argue against that theory. I could try, but I wouldn't sound too convincing.

An unbelievably high proportion of gung-ho comments and noisy, simplistic polemics from all sides, although I appreciate the silent majority may have more measured opinions.

Those who are silent or who agree with you 'have more measured opinions.'

Sounds a bit holier-than-thou, if you ask me.

[hammered]

The thai judicial system is primarily concerned with social harmony- that is the Chinese confucist legacy. Not individual 'justice'.

In the interest of restoring harmonious relationships among all Thais, a quick judicial decision to junk the Dems may come sooner than later- and all else becomes moot.

That is--- if recent history is a guide.

That alone leaves no equilibrium. It needs to be balanced with something

It might be enough for all sides (except poor old Abhisit) to declare win-win. Then- well- what do you think Hammered? A caretaker gov't tasked with setting up new elections? What are the possibilities in the eventuality of the Dems being fast tracked to oblivion?

Oddly enough- this would be the scenario that some in the PAD=- who have never trusted politics- anybody's politics- (ahh the good old days- 1931) would welcome.

An 'appointed cabinet'- till such time as the few remaining non-barred (read useless) politicos can present some kind of a charade that passes for modern democracy?

Seriously Hammered, what do you think the upshot would be in the event the dems are dissolved and their leadership put out of play for a few years?

That being done as an action alone gives a win to the reds which sets off other things. 2 bkk a few weeks ago postulated and they could be accurate that the end of all this would be the sacrifce of the reds and the dems leaving the old style polticians of PTP, BJT and CTP to get back to the old ways. It is possible. Chavalit hangs over this all too now. How do you remove him from the future which it seems is now wanted by the powerful

However to answer your hypothetical either:

1. the 2bkk option

2. new politics but not called that as you outline

3. Newinocracy with an election after PTP and Dems are both disolved (add in PTP for trying to overthrow state or something). That leaves a discredited rump Dem party and a wrecked PTP rump and desertion of all politcos to the only person left powerful enough to keep them in the game and the one remaining who the estbalishment trust

However, I have no idea as the real power plays are going on behind closed doors and deals are being sorted between various players in this. When enough from enough sides coalesce around one idea iot is over and all others are sacrificed. However, that needs layers from all teams. The Dems maybe via Chuan, Dr Sup or Sukhumband. All the for sale parties. Some clique of PTP and there is infighting. How to pull in the Sondhi yellows and the reds is trickier but if the reds go down and it is exposed that they were up to unacceptable things and if they go down this evidence will be there and if the yellows remain with light support it is doable

Or maybe we will just have an election within the next 18 months or whatever it is if everyone does their duty.

The problem with double standards is that it took 9 months or so for constituional court to disband TRT etc after receiving the documents and so the Dems must get the same or their side will be claiming doublke standards especially as the evidence is nowhere near as strong as the other two mnain party disolutions where execs were caught red handed on both cases. This case is more nuanced and more similar to the last Dem one where they were found not guilty.

Or maybe Banharn and Newin will get their way and the constitution is ammended and it all becomes moot anyway

By the way what a lot miss is that the PTP when threateend with disolution did everything they could to avoid anb election as if it goes off in the campaign none of the MPs have time to run to a new party. Now if you were being cynical you could say that was a nice way of making sure Mr. Abhisit didnt do no disolution

all my humble thoughts

[brahmburgers]

Methinks Thunder 30101 and Levelhead may be the same person. I could be wrong, but they joined within a short time of each other; members 73,989 amd 73,702 respectively - and each have similar # of posts. Just wondering, though it's not a big deal, because some other Thai Visaites mentioned the same sort of thing: Someone signing up using two or more aliases, in order to bolster their opinions - making it look like multiple posters are in complete agreement with that person. And what about Chequevera, RedParrot, theitalian, 4223 rhodes, clockworkorange, grandpops, and pagalin, and a few others (?) - who all seem to back the same horse using the same words - and all joined T.Visa around the same time. Maybe all coincidence. Oh well, no bigum dealum.

[thunder30101]

Nothing better than that armchair warrior ? No answer to your hate ? Only one of me I dont hide behind anything. Guess you cant read with all that hate in your eyes. I dont support either side, but I see their points and dont wish harm to either side unlike you and many others on here hiding behind your keyboards spouting hate shit.

[waza]

Hate shit? OK that was great imput........meanwhile......

Thai PM Abhisit Vows To Retake Bangkok Protest Site. Yes when will he retake the site?

Edited April 26, 2010 by waza

[cavelight]

Hundreds of the usual hippy-style backpackers trying to get into Thailand at Aranyapratet on my visa run yesterday. So many, in fact, that I had to pay the 200b bribe to get a quick entry stamp, or I would have been there for an hour and a half. Business as usual - plus the usual backpacker whining about having to pay 4 quid to avoid waiting. Money well spent, because it was firkin hot over there, as it often is.

[Old Man River]

Nothing better than that armchair warrior ? No answer to your hate ? Only one of me I dont hide behind anything. Guess you cant read with all that hate in your eyes. I dont support either side, but I see their points and dont wish harm to either side unlike you and many others on here hiding behind your keyboards spouting hate shit.

I am curious. Take the capital city from whatever country you hail from. Then have protesters take over approx. 5 km of roads in the central business district of your capital city. Now, how long would these protesters last? In mine, less than 24 hours.

I don't think anyone here wants anyone to get hurt. However, time to go home.