Should I Make A Pre-nuptual Agreement With My Tg?

[flying]

love is love, and business is business - and love has nothing to do with business

So which is marriage? Love or business?

Dont get me wrong.....I understand your POV but do not agree with it.

I am old enough & have been around the block.

In the end of course it is up to the participants to decide.

Chok Dee to the OP

[Valjean]

There is absolutely no doubt you should get a prenup. A marriage is every bit a financial contract as much as it is a romantic one. If your to be bride finds this insulting then she prob is not in it just for love. When I got married to a TG I got a prenup. I had to hire a Thai and an American lawyer to write it up and to read it to my wife, it also is written in both languages. My prenup is very fair and my wife understood that it was not meant to be mean spirited but to make sure everyone's motives for marriage are clear. What I did was exempt all assets I had already obtained going into the marriage from consideration as joint assets, I also protected any future inheritances I may get. I wrote a clause that if we divorce there will be no alimony. If either one of us racks up credit card debt or other debts it is our sole responsibility to resolve. I then wrote any monies or properties obtained from the day we are married on will be split 50/50 should we divorce. I felt this is fair because though I am the breadwinner she is very much my partner and I feel if she is investing in our marriage with her time and support she should get her fair share if we split, but at least I won't end up penniless nor will have to be locked into some type of endless ongoing support.

By the way this is not a dig against Thai women. I just feel historically men have a lot to lose going into a marriage without some type of contractual alterations.

I took a similar approach. My gf, now wife, didn't want to feel that I could just walk out and she has nothing. So we agreed on an amount for every year we were married should we break up and a after a period it's 50-50. And like above things we invest in together, like the home, are 50-50.

I say in a really good relationship, one that can last, you can have this discussion and have understanding. I don't see it as a weakness in the relationship - for us its a strength of being able to talk about things, see both sides and come to agreements. We're both practical, and easy going, so money, sex, family - we are very open and honest with each other and for us that's been a great foundation in a very happy, very, very trusting marriage. I was hard to bring up but the positive way my to-be wife reacted, and fairly negotiated in a her interests, made me feel all the more I'd was marrying the right woman. She's got a good head on her shoulders (and pretty as well).

[TheKingfisher]

Simple...

a: dont register the marriage in the UK therefor its not recognised and if everything goes to poop, head back home and she can only claim your joint property in Thailand

b: put everything in your mums name, and what ever you do dont tell her about it.

c: get her to sign it infront of a whitness, with a stat dec stating that she is aware of what the document states, no recourse from that.

d: Dont marry her legally, just put a ring on her finger and yours and pick some wishy whashy hippy ceremony and thats it.

e: dont listen to this go ahead get married and (I hope for you) live long and happy lives together and have 3 sweet little ones and learn Thai and never look at another girl so long as you live!.

good luck dude,

[BlackArtemis]

I did, and there were no problems. It cost about 8-10K for all the translations and stamps to make it legal in Thailand. Have one in English and another in Thai.

That's what the trust of your life long partner is worth!! 8-10K!! Pathetic.

Boohoo-fuc_king-hoo

I have an agreement stating take what you brought split what you made. Something, if I am not mistaken, it written into the Thai marriage laws, but not US laws.

There are reasons why I chose to do this and it had nothing to do with what race my wife was. Furthermore my wife and I sat down and discussed it and there was no issue but some tool on an internet forum is pointing fingers because I have a piece of paper sitting at the bottom of a safety deposit box collecting dust.

[saintofsilence]

Unless you are prepared to lose a lot of your investment or worried it will upset your Lady by getting a pre nup I would move on to the next one.

[Loz]

Have you considered transfering your assets to a third party? "Selling your share to you Mom" or creating a trust for a niece or nephew?

Or, simply don't marry this girl because already you don't trust her and you won't be able to hide it.

[wasabi]

There are a lot of posters with righteous indignation in this thread and maybe they are right I don't know. I do know I am glad I have my prenup because I am certain should I ever get divorced righteous indignation doesn't keep one financially solvent. Also just as good fences make good neighbors, my prenup has made our marriage stand on it's own merits, not because i fear some kind of financial problems if it ends.

I would agree if you suddenly show up with a document and demand your wife sign it then you are not truly entering a partnership but having an open and honest discussion about your concerns is normal and the sign of a healthy relationship. My wife and I discussed the prenup for nearly three months before having one made. I presented it along the lines of, I love you but you never know the future. It was straightforward and easy to take care of when it came time to sign it.

[kunash]

thanks for the replies.  

i was worried there a bit that i would have only negative replies, but it seems that some of you have gone down the pre nup route and it has worked.  Some good advice thanks

it would not be practical to sign anything over to a third party or my mum, because i would have to pay capital gains tax, even if i gift it i would have to pay CGT.  in any case, when my ( elderly ) mum passes away it will all come back to me, so I would be doubly walloped by the lovely british government ( death duties ). 

i think the best way to go would be to contact my solicitor in UK and in thailand for advice.  

[poppathai]

I always knew there would be problems being rich,thank god i'm poor and dont have to worry.Surely if you marry in thailand and live in thailand,i would n't have thought assets outside of the country could be touched?

with your mindset you will always be poor!

thank god, poor people have no problems . they just so happy!

[poppathai]

thanks for the replies.

i was worried there a bit that i would have only negative replies, but it seems that some of you have gone down the pre nup route and it has worked. Some good advice thanks

it would not be practical to sign anything over to a third party or my mum, because i would have to pay capital gains tax, even if i gift it i would have to pay CGT. in any case, when my ( elderly ) mum passes away it will all come back to me, so I would be doubly walloped by the lovely british government ( death duties ).

i think the best way to go would be to contact my solicitor in UK and in thailand for advice.

you need to stae your wealth to get proper advice.

[kunash]

thanks for the replies.

i was worried there a bit that i would have only negative replies, but it seems that some of you have gone down the pre nup route and it has worked. Some good advice thanks

it would not be practical to sign anything over to a third party or my mum, because i would have to pay capital gains tax, even if i gift it i would have to pay CGT. in any case, when my ( elderly ) mum passes away it will all come back to me, so I would be doubly walloped by the lovely british government ( death duties ).

i think the best way to go would be to contact my solicitor in UK and in thailand for advice.

you need to stae your wealth to get proper advice.

thanks, yes i will do to my solicitor

[Mossfinn]

a: dont register the marriage in the UK therefor its not recognised

If it is a legal marriage in Thailand, Amphur et al, it is recognised in the UK.

[hawthorne]

Abso f***lutley get a prenup. Not because she is Thai. IMHO you would be foolish not to protect your assets unless you are a poor baastard like myself. My goal in life is to die with the most debt possible.

[travellife]

thanks for the replies.  

i was worried there a bit that i would have only negative replies, but it seems that some of you have gone down the pre nup route and it has worked.  Some good advice thanks

it would not be practical to sign anything over to a third party or my mum, because i would have to pay capital gains tax, even if i gift it i would have to pay CGT.  in any case, when my ( elderly ) mum passes away it will all come back to me, so I would be doubly walloped by the lovely british government ( death duties ). 

i think the best way to go would be to contact my solicitor in UK and in thailand for advice.  

Your assets prior to marriage are your assets. So you don't have to worry about a prenump for those assets.

Assets after marriage is split 50/50. So if you buy a house after marriage and she invests nothing, she will get 50%. If she has a nice job, just get a loan and invest 50/50. That way there is no issue.

I believe any 'gains' you have on an asset while you are married (even assets acquired before marriage) are 50/50. It would be costly for her to go after your assets in the UK, so her family will request that you move as much assets to Thailand. Once it is here I believe it is 50/50 if you invest it in a new asset here.

I am not a lawyer, so check into these issues.

Divorce happens. Its a fact of life. So if you want, get a prenump. If she complains, than move on. This is 2010. Live in today's world. If not, you will regret all your decisions later. Be as open as possible about financial issues before you get married. Thai people talk about money all the time. They want to know what you earn, how much you own, etc. So don't worry about offending anyone.

Enjoy your marriage. It will be a challenge as are all marriages. Some survives, other do not. Anything can happen in the future.

[cangetman]

I Have to say i think you are 100% off your head even considering marrying her and this is coming from someone who went through what your now going through , it is really simple Love in thailand and love in the UK are usually 2 different things , you are better off with play boy magazine and a few cocktails by your bedside, joking apart The reality is TG see us as a meal ticket now in principle there is nothing wrong with that as life as eveyone is trying to better themselves ? now i know you are going to completly ignore all the comments on this forum and let your dick rule your head, but dont feel guilty about that as 99% of us do the same , good luck my friend

[clausewitz]

Firstly, don't flatter yourself that you have more to lose than others. I dare say, compared to me it would be true, but certainly not others.

Thirdly, if you are thinking about pre-nup, then she's not the girl for you, simple as.

To true exactly my thoughts,

Yes, that was Sir Paul Macarthy's thinking. Funny how despite no prenuptial with his true love she left him and took a few hundred millions pounds a few years later. Must have been a rare case.

[kunash]

it has been mentioned that any assets prior to marriage would be kept, and not split 50/50 on divorce.  i guess a prenup would also be useful if you were to inherit a large sum of money/property while married, as this may be considered 50/50 on divorce??

[AndyBlueEyes]

it has been mentioned that any assets prior to marriage would be kept, and not split 50/50 on divorce. i guess a prenup would also be useful if you were to inherit a large sum of money/property while married, as this may be considered 50/50 on divorce??

This type of question you asked is the reason that many posters like myself have recommended that you should get a good lawyer if you have assets to protect and decide to get a prenup. Divorce laws vary widely from place to place. I can tell you from experience that from where I am originally from in the US, assets aquired before a marriage and inheritance after a marriage are not divided in a divorce HOWEVER if at any point in the marriage, if any of those assets or inheritance become comingled ( even for just one minute) they become community property and divided 50/50 in a divorce. However because of the many variances in divorce laws, your prenup should be written in a way that protects you wherever you and your assets are located at the time someone files for divorce. BTW, I have known a great many divorced guys that have been very sorry that they did not have a prenup but have never met one divorced guy that is sorry that he did have a prenup so I think that says it all .

[Thakkar]

May I suggest a slightly different approach.

Look at it from your girlfriend's point of view. One of her reasons for marrying you would likely be for the security it would provide. Nothing wrong with that at all. Most women anywhere would take that matter into consideration. More so in Asia.

If you want to make a pre-nup, you should do so, but before bringing that up with her, tell her how you intend to ensure her security, say by buying a house, etc. Then discuss the pre-nup openly and honestly, not in the manner of imposing your decision. Her anxiety over the possibility of you leaving her high and dry is no less valid then yours over her doing so.

If I read your post correctly, A portion of your assets are not strictly yours but owned jointly with your family. It's reasonable for you to want to insulate that because there's no reason for other members of your family to "take the plunge" with you.

Good luck.

[thaibkk]

why would you risk to lose all or half your possesions you worked for to someone you have been married to a few months or years ?

just take a pre-nup...

[sawadeeken]

I have had two Thai marriages and have had 2 Prenup's......... Highly recommend it........ Most decent girls will not pass up the chance to marry into security, but after a few years, when they are comfortable and you have a chance to really know them (or they really get to know you) the relationship may change. If things change you are not hooked for half of what you got..........

Also, it has a real psychological influence if and when a split comes, they already have it in their mind that they have previously signed away their rights, and just go along with it. As far as fighting in court, most (99%) won't go to the trouble even if they thought they might win........... and in court it would probably stand up as long as you have proof that she understood it when she signed it. As far as the niave ones who tell you that if you doubt her, don't marry her -- they probably like to live dangerously in most of their undertakings and don't have anything to lose anyway (probably lost it before) -- but you do........... GOOD LUCK!

[OxfordWill]

righteous indignation doesn't keep one financially solvent.

[goatfarmer]

Marriage is a legal relationship. If you don't do a prenup you'll get the vanilla law. Fine if you like vanilla. I'd prefer to add my own flavours. The issue is not whether or not to get one, but how to get a good one. I went through five or six lawyers before finding one whom I considered competent and reasonably priced.

[Artabus]

Some good replies in this thread, and some that are frankly a bit strange.

If the assets that you wish to protect are in the UK, then if you decide a pre-nup is the right way to go, you should follow UK law. This is very clear.

However, there may be a conflict between UK law and Thai law in terms of how and when the pre-nup should be structured or implemented. So, again, a reason to choose UK law in preference to Thai law, if that is where your assets are.

I would say, from my own experience of dispute, that Thai courts are not interested in non-Thailand assets. However that was not in a divorce case, so take my comments on this under advisement.

As well as using a lawyer in the UK to draft the UK pre-nup (rather than you doing it), you might want to find one who understands the implications of any conflict between UK and Thai law, to see whether that changes the advice he gives you. Finding an international lawyer who specialises in pre-nups may not be so easy, and in the end you may find that researching the matter yourself will more readily give you any answers you are after to that specific question.

As regards the point that your assets in the UK are shared, it would seem obvious that the pre-nup would only apply to your share of those assets. In deciding whether you want the pre-nup, you might want to consider the scenario where you don't have one, your wife wins a share in those assets, and then wants to realise them. The assets might well then need to be sold. So if you want to do what you can to protect your mother from the fallout from your divorce, the pre-nup is the best route to go.

I am not sure where you are intending to get married. Do remember that the route to divorce will depend on which country you get married in... There are pros and cons to marriage in either Thailand or the UK, so you will need to make your own decisions on that.

Remember though, there is probably a tie-in between where the divorce happens and the relevancy of the pre-nup ie it would most likely need to be the same country for both aspects. That fact alone might give you the answer about where to get married.

I'm sorry to raise the consideration of divorce, but as we're talking about pre-nups, then the legalities of divorce are also relevant. You would benefit from taking them as seriously as the pre-nup.

I'm not assuming that your marriage will fail, any more than you are. Fact is though, no-one can tell what will happen. So you are only being sensible. Good luck and I wish you a long happy relationship.

[badger]

My understanding is that she would only be entitled to anything in a divorce that you have obtained DURING the marriage. The UK laws may be different but you are also protected to some degree by Thai laws. Where will you get married? Don't forget the legal requirments for that. Let's hope this never happeneds to you but it may be better to protect yourself and visit a lawyer. Get the documents translated for her, if need be. Good luck.