Worsening Crisis Pushes Thailand Towards Anarchy

[rabo]

BTW: At the time, few people agreed with the airport closure.

The Yellows I've met all say that they didn't agree with the airport occupation. It just doesn't make sense them saying this. In the end, they got what they wanted due to it. So the airport closure was in their favour. In public: "I don't agree with it." At home: "Hehehehe, let's show Thaksin." It's a bit like a Bolshevik saying: "I don't think we should storm the Tsar's palace."

Whenever something does not make sense, for sure it means that you don't understand it.

Pretty much the majority of people here supported the movement to remove the remaining parts of Thaksin's faction from government because of widespread voter fraud. However, when the yellow faction closed the airport, most people I know, and I myself, believed that was going to far. Especially 8 days later when the issue was resolved by the courts.

So, not hard to understand.

I think you need more than one source of information.

Are you agreeing with me that many Yellows say they didn't agree with the airport occupation, but in fact it got the Yellow movement what they wanted. Can one, in retrospection, say that they didn't agree with a protest which brought them victory?

And I don't understand this comment rabo "I think you need more than one source of information." Why do you think I have only one source of information? How is that implied in my previous post?

You put two contradictory statements in one sentence and ask me if I agree. I could say NES or YO, your choice.

The main point is that the yellow did not get "what they wanted by taking over the airport". The whole issue was decided by the courts and the case had been before the courts long before the airport takeover. The courts disbanded the government for voter fraud. Also, obviously, the many people who thought the yellows went too far occupying the airport are not the same people that occupied the airport, and most Bangkokites did not belong to the yellow group anyway.

I referred to yesterday's post where you discuss your single source of information as saying something or other. I believe understanding comes from examining all points of view, especially those that are contradictory to one's own opinion. I would tell anyone, including myself, to get more sources of information.

Edited April 28, 2010 by rabo

[kratiam]

Sorry...this is slightly off topic but I tried to start a new one without success.

I work in Suk 13 and there are LOT of quite heavily armed soldiers and police on both sides of Suk at Soi 15. Same yesterday. None at Soi 13 or 11. Does anyone know nwhy thta shouldbe please...just nosey, that's al!

[siampolee]

Thing 2 watch- BKK -Red leader Arisman yesterday threatened to burn province halls if govt stops the broadcast of community radio.

Yet another fine example of the view that the thug Arisman has on DEMOCRACY.

[OzMick]

I have been thinking, which is usually dangerous, and have come up with a "conspiracy theory." Quite prepared to admit it is a theory only with little supporting evidence, and retract if any hard fact destroys the chain of logic.

What got me started was the "allegedly photoshopped" pictures of Thaksin. Some of them are suspect enough to cast some credibility of the allegations, and at least one Nation "expert" agrees. If they are doctored, someone has gone to considerable expense and trouble to create the illusion.

This raises the question WHY? Is T seriously ill, perhaps even dying. It may be wishful thinking, but I believe the latter to be true. To support this theory, consider this. T is writing a lot of cheques that he would have trouble cashing. Contributors to the UDD fund are being promised B100,000 when he is re-instated, and there are many, many thousands according to the redneck leadership. Reports are also coming in of a wage freeze at the rally site, payment in full on a successful outcome. If he reneges on these payments, his popularity rating would be lower than the Gestapo's in Israel.

What does a dying man care for popularity? What does he care for Wealth, his family is well provided for? What use is Power to a dead man. What does a dying man want except not to die? Maybe to make atonement for past sins, or to perform good deeds to improve his standing with his god. Does either of those fit with his character?

Remember, this man is superstitious like the Pope is a catholic. A scant few years ago, he thought he was the best thing since sliced bread. When he was caught out, the court refused to convict him, so his scams became more and more outrageous. He was moving the Thai court system, and the military, under his control. Soon, he would be unstoppable.

Then came the summons to head office, followed by a resignation, withdrawn after a week. But it was too late, his bad luck run had started, and continues unabated. He loses Face, Power, Wealth, Status and finally his Health. Does he blame himself for his excesses, for going too far? In a pig's eye! The blame goes back to where the bad luck started.

I believe that the dying man's wish is for Revenge against those who caused his downfall. He wants to destroy the country that he can't return to. He has the money and the Isaan political machine to achieve what he wants, all he needs is the right motivation for the masses to carry out his will.

Initially, for the herd, it was money, but his leaders have changed that to the current smoke-screen of "democracy, equal opportunity, blah, blah, blah." The leaders have been equally duped. They believe it is a power grab coupled with a big cash sweetener, money and power the ultimate temptation. They egg Abhisit on to attack – "if you can't clear us out you must resign" - hoping for a bloodbath and with enough armed men to assure they get one. From the funeral pyre, the Phoenix is re-born.

What happens when they realize the real aim, that Thaksin is not coming back to rule because he is dying, and that they are not going to be rich and powerful as promised? The first thing I'd do is seek an amnesty, because without one they are going to end up behind walls for a long time, if not in front of one for the short rest of their lives (I was tempted to say "short time" but refrained). What can they do if an amnesty is refused? Carry on and hope for the best, and/or bolt for the nearest border. We will have to wait and see.

Why do you continue to lie to yourself that Thaksin is wanting to come back to rule ?

Perhaps that is why you cannot understand why tens of thousands of reds are demonstrating in Bangkok and country wide millions of people quietly support them. If you must keep deluding yourself its all about Thaksin then you will forever be posting nonsense like the above.

I have put a bold section in my original post to aid your diminutive reading and comprehension skills. Try starting from the top - it is OPINION and a CONSPIRACY THEORY.

Yes, but your implication is that Thaksin is coming back and then people will know he is dead/dying/last week/next week/already whatever and this will be some surprise to them that he is not coming back.

Therefore you base your whole theory on the delusions and lies about Thaksin.

I will try to express my thought in words of 1 syllable or less"

T is not coming back

He is very sick

He thinks he got shaf-ted

He wants to get even.

He has fooled the kwai

He has fooled the big kwai on stage

Now they know, they know they are in deep poo.

See spot run...........................

Or can I be more generous and say that what I think I wrote is not what you think you read.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Sorry...this is slightly off topic but I tried to start a new one without success.

I work in Suk 13 and there are LOT of quite heavily armed soldiers and police on both sides of Suk at Soi 15. Same yesterday. None at Soi 13 or 11. Does anyone know nwhy thta shouldbe please...just nosey, that's al!

It is strategic: at few hundred meters from Cowboy street, NanaThai. After Patpong it was logic. Next move....Pattaya

[bkkjames]

Sorry...this is slightly off topic but I tried to start a new one without success.

I work in Suk 13 and there are LOT of quite heavily armed soldiers and police on both sides of Suk at Soi 15. Same yesterday. None at Soi 13 or 11. Does anyone know nwhy thta shouldbe please...just nosey, that's al!

It is strategic: at few hundred meters from Cowboy street, NanaThai. After Patpong it was logic. Next move....Pattaya

This is one thing we do agree on Jerry. Protect those vital interests.

[hammered]

Seems a road block at Don Muang. Reds had to stop. Then they tried to storm it. Then the rubber bullets were fired and then bullets in the air

[jdinasia]

Sorry...this is slightly off topic but I tried to start a new one without success.

I work in Suk 13 and there are LOT of quite heavily armed soldiers and police on both sides of Suk at Soi 15. Same yesterday. None at Soi 13 or 11. Does anyone know nwhy thta shouldbe please...just nosey, that's al!

It is strategic: at few hundred meters from Cowboy street, NanaThai. After Patpong it was logic. Next move....Pattaya

Care to explain this? It wasn't "Patpong" it was the banking section located in Silom, particularly HQ of Bangkok Bank that was being protected from the violent Red shirts (that grenaded yet another branch of Bangkok Bank again).

I have heard from a few Red board members that they think the "elite" control places that offer entertainment --- this is a funny idea! People are suggesting that 'running a public house' is an activity of the Elite --- and that the Elite are employing so many people from "red" areas? --- I guess now Chuwit must be numbered amongst the Elite and not amongst the crackpots!

[hammered]

Sounds like Khwanchai has fled leaving the red shirts behind

[Netfan]

Investors do not like risks and uncertainty. It is the interests of ALL thais to solve in depth the issue of the Northern population. A crackdown will bring -at the best- only a temporary solution, because sooner or later the Thai 2 speed development consequences will re-surface. bangkokians have to invest in Northern Thailand: it is their well understood interest.

Investors will avoid Thailand until they have a certainty of stability.

A very interesting point Jerry. The two-speed development of Thailand is a major factor in this current crisis. Poor farmers and their children have to leave the land and come to Bangkok to find work which pays more. But leaving their home and family behind creates further social problems.

So why not invest more in the industrial and financial sectors in provincial cities? Maybe the moving of certain government sectors to these cities too – like Birmingham and Manchester in the UK. This will redistribute wealth geographically and lessen the divide between rich and poor.

Because the history is that the money disappears into the pockets of village headmen, various local poo-yais, poor construction practices, etc. Major investors are scared away - they don't want to invest thier money in a bottomless corrupt system. Part of the fault lies locally, not fully with some vague "elite" in Bangkok.

Edited April 28, 2010 by Netfan

[zirc]

id suggest reading the bangkok pundit blog

he's straight down the line,,cuts thru the crap

Except he doesn't. His visceral dislike for Abhisit, and his very selective memory colours the whole reportage. The real problem is there are few, if any, balanced reporters, and BP is nothing more than a commentator, not a news source.

Regards

Precisely, and good to make an important distinction between opinions and news sources.

On Thaivisa there's almost 100,000 opinions; his is just one more.

[dobadoy]

Sounds like Khwanchai has fled leaving the red shirts behind

Sounds like the airforce troops can do what the regular army cannot (i.e., their job).

[zirc]

Seems a road block at Don Muang. Reds had to stop. Then they tried to storm it. Then the rubber bullets were fired and then bullets in the air

Sounds like Khwanchai has fled leaving the red shirts behind

UDD rally to Talad Thai blocked at Don Muang

BANGKOK, 28 April 2010 (NNT) – Supporters of the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) dispatched to march to Talad Thai have been blocked by security officers on their way passing the air force base at Don Muang.

UDD Udon Leader, Kwanchai Praiphana, told his supporters to stop marching as they were passing the air force base at Don Muang because forces of police and military officers equipped with full riot gears were stationed there.

Both sides are keeping a distance of about two kilometers from each other while media members are requested to leave the area.

The situation is reported to be very intense.

The march of the UDD today is set to go to Talad Thai to give moral support to a group of UDD protestors gathered there. About 2,000 protestors with motorcycles and motorcades have been dispatched for this mission.

The march earlier went on smoothly. The road was reported to be very congested although traffic police had been facilitating the traffic.

UDD protestors at Rangsit are setting up checkpoints prohibiting security officers from other provinces to come to Bangkok for a crowd dispersal mission.

They also intend to facilitate fellow UDD supporters from other provinces to join the rally at Ratchaprasong.

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255304280036

[bkkjames]

Sounds like Khwanchai has fled leaving the red shirts behind

Sounds like the airforce troops can do what the regular army cannot (i.e., their job).

In the US this would be a major cause of embarrassment - not here though.

[bunuel]

A wise voice. There is a big difference between "law enforcement" and " selective law enforcement". When you have Rule of the Best Law Money Can Buy, the result is invariably chaos and anarchy.

Question for THE NATION Editorial Page: What Yellow Shirt leaders were ever prosecuted for their very illegal occupation of the airports last year?

That event, and the subsequent removal of the democratically elected government by legal subterfuge, led to this current crisis.

As long as the Pravda Nation will write: "The rapid decay in law and order, resulting from the protracted rallies by the red shirts," the country will be in despair.

the newspapers, the elites and Abisith need to understand that THEY are the reasons of this chaos.

[SomTumTiger]

Looks like the Reds are up to their old tricks. Using a gas station as a shield. Arrest 'em all - terrorists.

[bkkjames]

Kwanchai Phraiphana, a red-shirt leader, was arrested near the clashing site in Don Muang, Thai Rath Online reported.

The paper said Kwanchai was arrested at 2:41 pm while was trying to flee back to Rajprasong.

The Nation

Now if only there was a guantanamo bay or something. These guys will get bail by 10pm tonight I imagine.

[SomTumTiger]

State of Emergency - they ain't getting bail.

[hammered]

Kwanchai Phraiphana, a red-shirt leader, was arrested near the clashing site in Don Muang, Thai Rath Online reported.

The paper said Kwanchai was arrested at 2:41 pm while was trying to flee back to Rajprasong.

The Nation

Now if only there was a guantanamo bay or something. These guys will get bail by 10pm tonight I imagine.

If it is true and to date it is unconfirmed, there is no way he will get bail. They can hold him for 30 days without charge under emergency laws.

[bkkjames]

State of Emergency - they ain't getting bail.

The protesters yesterday did that confronted the vehicles in pathomthani? Let's wait and see.

[hammered]

State of Emergency - they ain't getting bail.

The protesters yesterday did that confronted the vehicles in pathomthani? Let's wait and see.

Those were little ones. Khwanchai is bigger than Methee. He wont. If it is confirmed. To date only Thai Rath are reporting this

[SomTumTiger]

Sorry, was talking about the leaders.

[hammered]

State of Emergency - they ain't getting bail.

The 11 Sukhumvit bombers were out on bail paid by Phuea Thai MP personally, 50,000 a head.

They werent bombers. They were people arrested blocking the road at Pathum Thani. The government cant lock up every minor red shirt or you d be talking about concentration camps and surely nobody is proposing that

[SomTumTiger]

BP said that Khwanchai was hiding in a van during the confrontation - heart of a lion that one. Like master, like servant.

[jdinasia]

A wise voice. There is a big difference between "law enforcement" and " selective law enforcement". When you have Rule of the Best Law Money Can Buy, the result is invariably chaos and anarchy.

Question for THE NATION Editorial Page: What Yellow Shirt leaders were ever prosecuted for their very illegal occupation of the airports last year?

That event, and the subsequent removal of the democratically elected government by legal subterfuge, led to this current crisis.

As long as the Pravda Nation will write: "The rapid decay in law and order, resulting from the protracted rallies by the red shirts," the country will be in despair.

the newspapers, the elites and Abisith need to understand that THEY are the reasons of this chaos.

Ummm Bunuel --- you may wish to do some research into the ongoing cases against the PAD leadership. You may also wish to remember that the current government was NOT in power in the tie period you are whining about.

The fact that you call PPP being disbanded "legal subterfuge" when a party exec was caught on video paying off people (commiting electoral fraud) is sad. You are also disregarding the fact that the PPP/Somchai government could have called for fresh elections even 1 day before they were dissolved -- they didn't.

There is the final consideration --- not a single government in the world seems to think that you are correct.

[gregb]

Investors do not like risks and uncertainty. It is the interests of ALL thais to solve in depth the issue of the Northern population. A crackdown will bring -at the best- only a temporary solution, because sooner or later the Thai 2 speed development consequences will re-surface. bangkokians have to invest in Northern Thailand: it is their well understood interest.

Investors will avoid Thailand until they have a certainty of stability.

A very interesting point Jerry. The two-speed development of Thailand is a major factor in this current crisis. Poor farmers and their children have to leave the land and come to Bangkok to find work which pays more. But leaving their home and family behind creates further social problems.

So why not invest more in the industrial and financial sectors in provincial cities? Maybe the moving of certain government sectors to these cities too – like Birmingham and Manchester in the UK. This will redistribute wealth geographically and lessen the divide between rich and poor.

Because the history is that the money disappears into the pockets of village headmen, various local poo-yais, poor construction practices, etc. Major investors are scared away - they don't want to invest thier money in a bottomless corrupt system. Part of the fault lies locally, not fully with some vague "elite" in Bangkok.

I had an interesting talk with my Thai inlaws last time I was up in the Issan area. They freely admit they are receiving more money now from the current government than they ever got under Thaksin. They even just bought a new tractor (which I was adamantly against since I will be called on to fix it when it breaks). So I asked them, why, if your life is so much better now, do you still support the reds? They had real difficulty with this question, and not all of it was my rather poor Thai language skills. In the end, they explained this was simply the "culture of the village" and it was expected of them.

As for feeling oppressed by the "elite", every one, red or yellow, feels oppressed by the "elite". I know I do and I am definitely not a red supporter. It is impossible to find anyone who doesn't feel this way. So this is not a not a productive route for discussion. This is only coming up because the red leaders are irresponsibly empacizing it. Remove the source, and the feelings will die with it.

So, for anyone who thinks simply increasing investment in Issan and improving things economically will be enough, guess again. The very first thing you need to do is to remove the bad elements fanning the flames of hate and division throughout the red movement. Many of the red supporters are not really even in support of these extreme protests, and especially not the escalating violence. (Note however, they will never remove their support for the reds no matter how evil or distasteful they become, and the red leaders know this.) This government is already doing many things to help the people of Issan, but the region is locked solidly in the red camp politically. This will not change by adding more investment.

Since it is clear that you will never be able to get the people of Issan out of the red political camp, the only thing you can hope to accomplish is to get the red leaders to start acting in the interest of their constituents. That is a hard thing in Issan, because the very people who are in charge are generally the ones who are the most corrupt and the least interested in helping anyone but themselves.

My point is you can not simply throw money at this problem. The government has been doing that for a year and it isn't working. It is not only about economic development. It is also about political and social development. You need a concerted effort over decades to change the culture of the region. You and I most likely will not live to see the day where the Issan region becomes independent of its corrupt overlords. But our children might if we take the time to address the real problems and not just the naively stated problems.

[jdinasia]

State of Emergency - they ain't getting bail.

The 11 Sukhumvit bombers were out on bail paid by Phuea Thai MP personally, 50,000 a head.

They werent bombers. They were people arrested blocking the road at Pathum Thani. The government cant lock up every minor red shirt or you d be talking about concentration camps and surely nobody is proposing that

Actually, since the numbers have dropped ...

I think they COULD lock them up. They need to start blocking people from returning to fight another day ... and catching reds that are ACTIVELY disrupting life in Thailand would be a good beginning.

[jdinasia]

State of Emergency - they ain't getting bail.

The 11 Sukhumvit bombers were out on bail paid by Phuea Thai MP personally, 50,000 a head.

They werent bombers. They were people arrested blocking the road at Pathum Thani. The government cant lock up every minor red shirt or you d be talking about concentration camps and surely nobody is proposing that

Actually, since the numbers have dropped ...

I think they COULD lock them up. They need to start blocking people from returning to fight another day ... and catching reds that are ACTIVELY disrupting life in Thailand would be a good beginning.

[Roadman]

Kwanchai Phraiphana, a red-shirt leader, was arrested near the clashing site in Don Muang, Thai Rath Online reported.

The paper said Kwanchai was arrested at 2:41 pm while was trying to flee back to Rajprasong.

The Nation

It's actually pleasing to see the basic re establishment of law occuring for the Abhisit and Anupong coalition, slow and steady from the ground up. Soldiers and police actually doing their jobs breaking through and dealing to the lawbreakers, Reds getting locked up in jail, scumbags like Kwanchai getting caught and renegade mobs being isolated and captured.

The UDD/Reds are dead meat politically. They have been exposed for the thugs they are and have no international support and are quickly loosing it within Thailand's borders, with their continued tyranny. Way to go Pinnochio - a Democratic led coalition government at the next elections is starting to become more of a reality the longer these Red thugs play their tune.

[jcbangkok]

Looks like the reds are testing how the authorities will react and make movements. Am sure more to come soon. The reds cannot hold out much longer and need to do all they can to see their fellow Thais killed.