Worsening Crisis Pushes Thailand Towards Anarchy

[hammered]

I am really surprised to see that there are still people supporting the Red's because they are fighting for a "just cause"!!! There is no "just cause" in anarchy. There is no "just cause" in killing people, there is no "just cause" in red's searching cars when they please, there is no "just cause" in disrupting the BTS, there is no "just cause" in sabotaging a complete nation....

What I am curious about is how these idiot Red supporters in this threat see the future. What do you think happens once you're beloved Mr. T is back to rule his mafia, and resume his dictatorship? You would trust a bunch of thugs to rule this wonderful country? You must be really looking forward having a guy like Chalerm being responsible for, say, Ministry of Interior! You must have either lost your mind, or be completely ignorant reality.

Things were beautiful in Thailand when Mr. T was here before and I'm sure they will be relatively beautiful were he to win a democratic election. Forget your obsession with Mr. T for a moment and consider the wider scope of the situation. There is hope. Listen to the words of Aung San Suu Kyi!

First and foremost he should win an election without vote-buying to be democratically elected! This current government is more democratically elected than any of Thaksins governments were. Furthermore, you should maybe ask all the families of the people who died during Thaksins dictatorship if it was so beautiful!

And please, stop quoting Aung San Suu Kyi in one line with Thaksin. My Burmese friends here in Thailand have absolutely no affiliation with Thaksin and his cronies, as Thaksin is a friend of the Burmese junta and his current practices are much more in line with Hun Sen approach.

I still challenge the Red supporters here to explain what the future under the Red's dictatorship would look like. A government full of criminals, killers and idiots. What will this do to this country?

They also need to address the issue of how they would deal with the upcountry patronage system that holds back all rural development and opresses the poor up copuntry. That would be especially interesting to hear as nearly all the PTP MPs are part of this class and some of the red leadership are. So I await to hear how they will deal with these double standard local elitists then I may believe they really will do something for the poor. I am actually quite disgusted that western so called academics who claim to be knowledgable on Thiland and who run so called Thai studies courses rarely even mention this iussue especially when farmers will openly talk about it although are far too reliant on the baronial class and even scared of them to do anything about it. Still I am open minded enough to be convinced if the reds were to state what they were going to do about this. Not that anyone cares what someone on an expat forum thinks

[hammered]

Anyone that suggest the yellow shirts would have just pottered around, with orchids behind their ears, shouting a few slogans and waving few flags had they not got their way is a little naive, I conjecture. There are some very seasoned and hard-core thugs (the buzz word, it seems) amongst them, just as there are amongst the redshirts....Indeed, it sort of sums up the muck of politics here that probably the biggest gangster of them all, a certain Newin Chidchob hold the balance of power!!

And hasnt he gone quiet through all of this mess. When everyone else is discredited a new power broker will be needed and a tough one at that who can deal with people from all sides

[4223rhodes]

Put the camo back in the barracks and all will be well in the kingdom.

[jayjay0]

I wonder how many of the red bashers would bash if Thaksin was completely [had never existed] out of the picture. The one common theme running through this this whole situation is the dislike for Thaksin.

The red shirts have a lot of good points just a bad way of getting them across. It has got to the point now where nether side can back down no matter how wrong they are. The only solution is for them to both admit to there mistakes and stop the finger pointing witch is nothing but lying. Perhaps if the current government would treat the red shirts like they treated the yellow shirts the red shirts would back off a little. Just a thought.

It might sound crazy but what if the Police and the Army went home and the news papers stopped reporting about the demonstrations. How long would the red shirts sit there.

In closing I would like to say that I whole hardheartedly agree with the red shirts on democracy but just having another election will not give Thailand one. The Army must be put in it's place and the Government made accountable for its actions. I just don't see that happening in the next election be it in 30 days or 1 year.

[retarius]

Easy to ignor the reality that the voting process in the rural areas is currently in shambles with 'red shirt guards' all over the place and vote buying and intimidation out of control in a 'snap' election which would have people going to polls within weeks.. there needs to be a short period of calm so that a new election has legitimacy and is monitored for transparency; when villagers are being paid to vote or when there is any type of indiscrepancy it needs to come to light otherwise the other side will think election was stolen by a mob and we'll be right back to yellow shirt day1. IMO six months should be a good timeframe, allows the government more than enough time to pass the budget-giving government agency's some breathing space atleast.. and gives enough time to diffuse tensions

That's really surpising to read!

Ah, another quote from The Nation, that bastion of neutrality that has recently taken to quoting anaonymous web posters as scientific expertise in its latest propaganda push. How unusual that it should now write this article blaming the reds for everything even though the yellows started all this mob rule mess.

Thais just want their democracy back - the one that was stolen by the present government. Thais deserve a say in their political process, without all this meddling by the corrupt yellow lot. Why can't Abhisit hold an election, win, and then the reds will lose face and have absolutely no argument whatsoever? A decisive election victory would propel Abhisit to hero status on the local and world stage. He would be lauded as a man who called the bluff of his opponents (buffaloes that would never get elected), beat them at their own game and restored peace to Thailand, as it teetered on the brink, with no further loss of life.

What is Abhisit afraid of? This is his chance to go down in history, one way or the other. Does he think that the Thai people don't like him and that he would not get the election victory that he says he is worthy of?

Clockwork, please stop it, you are being too rationale. An election which Abhisit would surely win hands down since he's doing such a great job, would halt the bloodshed and the slide into 'anarchy', as the Nation hysterically puts it....if you read through the posts here, you can see that most farangs on here don't want a reasonable solution...what they want is to see some red-shirts skulls cracked by the army in the name of law and order....

[sammycic]

Some here have very short selective memories...When Prime Minister Abhisit' wanted to go to Chang Mai just 3 months ago, the threat of violence was so great he had to cancel.

Now for those of you that think Thailand is not falling into anarchy, then please explain when the leader of a country wishes to address his countrymen and you have the red shirts making serious enough threats against his appearance that he is forced to cancel? Is this democracy?

Maybe the thing to do is the grant Issan independence, and let them have their own country? The could even grant their great patriarch Thaskin citizenship that way. With their black shirt guards, great bastions of learning, I am sure they could show the way to really run a country.

now you are starting to make sense what a great idea, you must have had some yaba-yaba do.

[danc]

the only result of such a partisan opinion is to divide more deeply and to drive more certainly to Civil War.

The situation is now far more difficult to handle.

1- A conscrit army is not a block without cracks. I have told from day one that the law enforcement was a Police operation more specifically Anti-Riot Forces.

2- The fact of double standards (PAD Airports) has destroyed a fair utilisation of Police and Army

3- Abhisit is acting as a Partisan Leader not as a Stateman: he failed to adress directly to root people and fix their issues, defusing the situation at the roots: it is a well known tactic to defuse a social unrest by adressing directly the issues, overpassing the leaders.

4- Now we are on the verge of the insurrection. If there is a bloody crackdown, the risk is the Civil war, just waiting than some Army sections join the insurrection. IMHO, Anupong has well understood the danger and this is why he cannot act as Abhisit want.

Thats a great post and the Army is indeed split.

In the past, the Elites have bought elections and where they could not buy them, they have (through the salaries of the forces with missused Tax Revenue) PAID for coups and PAID the soldiers to do their bidding. They have somehow brought Newin in on their side this time to prop up Abhisit. This can only mean they have promised him PM if he maintains status Quo. When PAD have a problem with Newin in the future, they are going to pray that the "good old days" of Thaksin could come back. A PAD rally under a Newin Gov. will not happen. Crocodile farms will have a good day though.

Is it any better to be paying army conscripts to keep you in power all these years than Thaksin buying a bit of land and dodging a bit of tax? Obviously to the PAD its ok.

PAD's rank and file interestes are closer to those of the Redshirts. They just don't know it yet as they think they are part of the upper classes. They are at best, part of the lower rungs of middle classes and still very poorly paid in a world wide sense. This despite their party being in power forever.

Of course nobody would confuse Taksin as being one of these elite's would they?

Thaksin is not one of the elite - he is nouveau riche and so detested by many of the establishment elites, the same as in any country around the world where these archaic structures still exist - think of the cozy clubs in St James, London for example, it is all about breeding and family and schooling (Eton is a big +). Might I suggest that Thaksin's vanity at being rejected by these elite is also another strand to this problem!!

[LevelHead]

Since Thaksin upset "The Nations" owners and operators back in about 2002 the paper has been rabid in being Anti-Thaksin. Every piece of any rumour or charge against him has been lapped up and printed without care for checking whether it is true or not, "unnamed sources" are often used as an excuse for not actually naming or backing up most of their more rabid articles.

They have with the same rabid enthusiasm been against PPP and PTPT and Reds.

These people have something to lose, as do quite a few Phuket/Samui/Bangkok farangs whose "wives" are part of the middle class that lives off of Democrat corruption.

Some people lost out during the TRT times of Thaksin, in general it was some of the middle class who get their kick backs from Democrats in control. These are the people you see now being rabidly anti-Red.

The other English language newspaper is a little less rabid in its hate of Thaksin, due to its owners, but only a little less, The Nation leads the way in total propaganda and rabid hate of anything Thaksin.

All Abhisit had to do to stop all of this weeks ago was say ;

"The coup in 2006 was wrong, the demonstrations by the PAD which was part paid for by businesses associated with my family and many Democrats was wrong, the parliamentary coup and goings on which put me into power was wrong, and therefore I dissolve the House and put the power back to the people for a vote".

Thats all he had to do, and 26 people would not have died.

However it seems so much money has been paid to hold the coup, to dissolve the TRT and the PPP and to convict Thaksin and therefore to grab power, that these people are not going to let go now, they do not care than many have died and maybe more will die, all they want is the power that their money has been spent on getting hold off.

[Chaimai]

.what they want is to see some red-shirts skulls cracked by the army in the name of law and order....

No such thing aas law and order in this country anymore.

[LevelHead]

In summary it is the view of many that :

The Nation and TAN and ASTV are now basically all the same, pure Yellow.

Can you expect anything even remotely neutral from them ? Perhaps once in a blue moon as a diversionary tactic perhaps ? This opinion article is pure Yellow nonsense, thats my opinion of it.

[bangkoklight]

Of course nobody would confuse Taksin as being one of these elite's would they?

Mr. T's money is new money. He's not from a traditional elite family, which is why the traditional elite feared him. In a democracy, this can happen. Someone who doesn't come from the old money can become a popular politician. It's democracy - simple. The Bangkok folk should accept this else they will divide the nation and in the end, they will be the losers too. Believe it or not, the elite's money ultimately comes from the land.

[LevelHead]

.what they want is to see some red-shirts skulls cracked by the army in the name of law and order....

No such thing aas law and order in this country anymore.

The "rule of law" went out the window in 2006 when an illegal coup by the CNS happened.

And that is the point that the rewind button as to go to to solve this problem.

If those dumb Yellows had not forced a coup then all these problems would never be happening.

[dobadoy]

.what they want is to see some red-shirts skulls cracked by the army in the name of law and order....

No such thing aas law and order in this country anymore.

Quite so.

TAN Network: Suthep:"Authorities are ready", "it won't be long now"; gov't won't stand by n allow protesters to search vehicles on the streets

Blah blah blah, everybody frustrated with the red shirts insurgency knows Suthep speaks empty words, one wonders why he bothers to speak at all.

[way2muchcoffee]

In summary it is the view of many that :

The Nation and TAN and ASTV are now basically all the same, pure Yellow.

Can you expect anything even remotely neutral from them ? Perhaps once in a blue moon as a diversionary tactic perhaps ? This opinion article is pure Yellow nonsense, thats my opinion of it.

Perhaps they are becoming more hysterical by the day due to a large company of terrorist insurgents holding hostage the city in which make their homes through the use of violence, threat, and intimidation.

[tomahawk]

Perhaps things will change but outside of Bangkok, I do not see any anarchy at all. In fact nothing has changed in the least.. It does seem sometimes that Bangkok is separate from the rest of Thailand. Personally, I hope there is no more violence in Bangkok or anywhere else. But if their is violence in Bangkok, I do not believe this will necessarily lead to a civil war. As long as farmers have crops and vendors can sell their goods I think life will just go on.

[kissdani]

I don't get all this anarchy stuff....where I live it isvery nice and peaceful (Isan)...I haven't seen any red-men with sharpened bamboo sticks, or black men AK47s or M16s either...we did have a firework display on Sunday evening to honor Kamo...the loud noises frightened my wife....but I can attest that it is not in the least bit anarchic here...

What seems to be happening is that a few hundred (Nation numbers) boisterous people have made it inconvenient for the ultra rich to shop in some of Bangkok's more exclusive malls...I agree that this is a terrible thing for them to do...how wouldyou feel if you couldn't drive your $500000 Benz to your favorite shopping mall...terrible of course... but the press are blowing the anarchy thing out of proportion....we have lovely malls up here in Isan and factory outlets too....maybe you should come and do your shopping up here until the red shirts...you may even find that the prices are better....

And of course we could wear the XXXX favorite color, yellow, when we come to visit and shop.

Would not raise any problems would it?

There is a group that picked the color yellow as their favorite color because it is the color of Monday in Thailand (what you as farang USA maybe don't know). Some of these groups actions made them unpopular, but it doesn't mean that opposing this group mean you are against Mondays. Such claims are just another smear campaign.

Tactics by the people who want to add fuel to the fire, but not looking for a peaceful solution.

[bangkoklight]

If those dumb Yellows had not forced a coup then all these problems would never be happening.

Sondhi Limthongkul and his PAD movement is to blame for this mess. All they had to do was wait for the next round of elections.

[Lumumba]

If I were Abhisit, I will .,.,,.....,,,,,.........,,,, , ,,. Newcastle is back to the top flight after all.

[LevelHead]

Perhaps things will change but outside of Bangkok, I do not see any anarchy at all. In fact nothing has changed in the least.. It does seem sometimes that Bangkok is separate from the rest of Thailand. Personally, I hope there is no more violence in Bangkok or anywhere else. But if their is violence in Bangkok, I do not believe this will necessarily lead to a civil war. As long as farmers have crops and vendors can sell their goods I think life will just go on.

Sadly Abhisit and Suthep and the Yellow side want blood and death, nothing else can explain their actions.

It will likely start on Friday evening or Saturday morning (perhaps the most likely is Saturday morning as they will attempt during 12 hours of daylight to get the protest site back).

The ramping up of the Yellow propaganda machine is all about attempting to make things seem so bad they can say they were justified to go on their killing spree of innocent protesters.

Expect the Yellow propaganda machine to work more and more in the days ahead, and expect many "fake Reds" action designed to upset the people of Bangkok in order to get the acceptance that Reds must die and so use force is ok.

You can see that the media is already trying to spout the same excuses used some years back for killing all the students.

Someone appears to want to get the reputation of "Butcher of Bangkok".

Military Coup, Judicial Coup, Parliamentary Coup and now perhaps a more open "Slaughter" is going to happen.

Shame on them all if they do.

[ScouseTommy]

im not a fan of the reds, but when did they say they would disband the monarchy?????? biased reporting i think!

[LevelHead]

This is what happened last time, after similar tactics by what is now "Team Yellow" allowed for a slaughter to take place.

It now seems history is repeating itself. The PAD and Team Yellow appear to want to see this happening again.

This time perhaps the leaders will be Abhisit and Suthep who might earn their reputations in "infamy" very soon. The world is watching.

Lets hope peace prevails and Abhisit dissolves the House.

[LevelHead]

im not a fan of the reds, but when did they say they would disband the monarchy?????? biased reporting i think!

Yes, it is making the excuses for slaughter. Pure Yellow propaganda and lies.

This is what they did in the time of the video below.

Same excuses made to kill the students.

.

[bkkjames]

Perhaps things will change but outside of Bangkok, I do not see any anarchy at all. In fact nothing has changed in the least.. It does seem sometimes that Bangkok is separate from the rest of Thailand. Personally, I hope there is no more violence in Bangkok or anywhere else. But if their is violence in Bangkok, I do not believe this will necessarily lead to a civil war. As long as farmers have crops and vendors can sell their goods I think life will just go on.

Sadly Abhisit and Suthep and the Yellow side want blood and death, nothing else can explain their actions.

It will likely start on Friday evening or Saturday morning (perhaps the most likely is Saturday morning as they will attempt during 12 hours of daylight to get the protest site back).

The ramping up of the Yellow propaganda machine is all about attempting to make things seem so bad they can say they were justified to go on their killing spree of innocent protesters.

Expect the Yellow propaganda machine to work more and more in the days ahead, and expect many "fake Reds" action designed to upset the people of Bangkok in order to get the acceptance that Reds must die and so use force is ok.

You can see that the media is already trying to spout the same excuses used some years back for killing all the students.

Someone appears to want to get the reputation of "Butcher of Bangkok".

Military Coup, Judicial Coup, Parliamentary Coup and now perhaps a more open "Slaughter" is going to happen.

Shame on them all if they do.

Again you are wrong.

If they wanted a blood bath they would have waited outside them homes a month ago for the Red Leaders to do the statesman like thing and pour it on them.

As for the any impending crackdown, won't be on a Friday or Saturday as the during the week the numbers are much lower than on weekends.

Any action when it comes will most likely be targeted at the Red Leadership and Guards after a warning is given out to all to leave. Hopefully the red leaders let the more moderates in their camp do so.

As far a reputation goes, your Red leaders have plenty of material now to pen a few books in the coming years to satisfy their egos - let's face, they want to go down in history as something important - at least in their own minds.

[hammered]

Perhaps things will change but outside of Bangkok, I do not see any anarchy at all. In fact nothing has changed in the least.. It does seem sometimes that Bangkok is separate from the rest of Thailand. Personally, I hope there is no more violence in Bangkok or anywhere else. But if their is violence in Bangkok, I do not believe this will necessarily lead to a civil war. As long as farmers have crops and vendors can sell their goods I think life will just go on.

It is the same both where I am right now and in the family village area. If you didnt turn the TV on and avoided newpapers and internet you wouldnt have a clue what was happening.

[koosdeboer]

I don't get all this anarchy stuff....where I live it isvery nice and peaceful (Isan)...I haven't seen any red-men with sharpened bamboo sticks, or black men AK47s or M16s either...we did have a firework display on Sunday evening to honor Kamo...the loud noises frightened my wife....but I can attest that it is not in the least bit anarchic here...

What seems to be happening is that a few hundred (Nation numbers) boisterous people have made it inconvenient for the ultra rich to shop in some of Bangkok's more exclusive malls...I agree that this is a terrible thing for them to do...how wouldyou feel if you couldn't drive your $500000 Benz to your favorite shopping mall...terrible of course... but the press are blowing the anarchy thing out of proportion....we have lovely malls up here in Isan and factory outlets too....maybe you should come and do your shopping up here until the red shirts...you may even find that the prices are better....

Of course it's nice and peaceful in the esaan because all the thugs from Esaan are in Bangkok now.

[stevotoo]

It is a money politics culture- both TRT/PPP/PT and the Democrats see power as a means to greater wealth The establishment have made token efforts from the very beginning of 'democracy' and Thaksin won their hearts with populist policies; neither truly represents the people - both have been dictatorial, both have been corrupt, both have committed human rights abuses and both have bought votes and 'demanded' loyalty.

- the question is which side is more likely to bring a better deal to the vast majority of oppressed and exploited people.

For the political culture to develop, greater and better education is the key- why has it not happened?

The answer lies in the fact that the system is designed to favour the few over the many-

public universities were set up to provide education for the gifted and disadvantaged but have been hijacked by the elite-top 4 university places go to those who can afford and are accepted by socially-selective tutorial schools which teach compensating strategies for entrance exams, and jobs in those universities go to people of the same kind.

How many people get top jobs because of what they know rather than who they know?

The age and patronage culture ensures that change is slow, methods are backward and that power and wealth is consolidated in the hands of the few.

This is feudal and for Thailand to move forward in the modern world it needs to change.

Edited April 27, 2010 by stevotoo

[LevelHead]

Perhaps things will change but outside of Bangkok, I do not see any anarchy at all. In fact nothing has changed in the least.. It does seem sometimes that Bangkok is separate from the rest of Thailand. Personally, I hope there is no more violence in Bangkok or anywhere else. But if their is violence in Bangkok, I do not believe this will necessarily lead to a civil war. As long as farmers have crops and vendors can sell their goods I think life will just go on.

Sadly Abhisit and Suthep and the Yellow side want blood and death, nothing else can explain their actions.

It will likely start on Friday evening or Saturday morning (perhaps the most likely is Saturday morning as they will attempt during 12 hours of daylight to get the protest site back).

The ramping up of the Yellow propaganda machine is all about attempting to make things seem so bad they can say they were justified to go on their killing spree of innocent protesters.

Expect the Yellow propaganda machine to work more and more in the days ahead, and expect many "fake Reds" action designed to upset the people of Bangkok in order to get the acceptance that Reds must die and so use force is ok.

You can see that the media is already trying to spout the same excuses used some years back for killing all the students.

Someone appears to want to get the reputation of "Butcher of Bangkok".

Military Coup, Judicial Coup, Parliamentary Coup and now perhaps a more open "Slaughter" is going to happen.

Shame on them all if they do.

Again you are wrong.

If they wanted a blood bath they would have waited outside them homes a month ago for the Red Leaders to do the statesman like thing and pour it on them.

As for the any impending crackdown, won't be on a Friday or Saturday as the during the week the numbers are much lower than on weekends.

Any action when it comes will most likely be targeted at the Red Leadership and Guards after a warning is given out to all to leave. Hopefully the red leaders let the more moderates in their camp do so.

As far a reputation goes, your Red leaders have plenty of material now to pen a few books in the coming years to satisfy their egos - let's face, they want to go down in history as something important - at least in their own minds.

Get real.

April 10th they tried with force and live ammo.

However the army commanders got killed and the leaderless Army retreated.

They have tried once with force and live ammo and it killed 25 people.

These people have no exercised restraint, they have tried and failed. I think you can be sure next time if these blood hungary people call another crackdown, you will see many many more dead as they use excessive force.

Remember this.

.

[nickupton]

Interesting you would totally reject this article. Does this seem like a normal nation to you?

When you go shopping do you have to get permission to enter a fort, and pass interrogation by so red shirted "protesters"

Some days the sky train runs and some days not, depending on the whims of some out of town group.

Some days you can drive down federal highways, some days you have to allow yourself to be searched by a mob.

Sometimes you can go for a ride on the sky-train, some-days you get ambushed by grenades and die.

To call the anarchy is indeed total rubbish....there is little difference between Thailand today and most countries in the world.

Yep and I know you love your yaba-yaba, you can see so clearly after a dose

I would add to that that you are free to speak as long as it is in line with redshirt thinking. If you complain about being searched by unauthorised thugs your car gets damaged. When will this lead to beatings and murder? Not long is my guess.

Those people who blame the government for this are idiots. Arguing about the date for an election does not give people the right to walk all over other people's rights. What democracy is this that the redshirts constantly bleat on about? Attempting to derail trains, grenade attacks on people who don't agree with them, harrassing doctors, intimidation of people across the country. What gives them the right to spread fear across the country? What gives idiots on this message board the right to dismiss the fears of other people by saying "oh, you yellow shirt supporter"? Is that the next step? Genocide of yellow shirts? Anything is possible in this anarchy. This is what I call evil. This is dictatorship by mob.

The Union of <deleted> Dictators get off the streets and let normal people lead a peaceful life and be free to disagree with you.

[bangkoklight]

The ramping up of the Yellow propaganda machine is all about attempting to make things seem so bad they can say they were justified to go on their killing spree of innocent protesters.

Expect the Yellow propaganda machine to work more and more in the days ahead, and expect many "fake Reds" action designed to upset the people of Bangkok in order to get the acceptance that Reds must die and so use force is ok.

The Yellows’ propaganda machine is obscene. Lying is second nature to them as it always has been. Sondhi Limthongkul should be imprisoned for life for all this. The Yellows’ childish tactics and dirty games just go to show their cause and campaign is nearing its end. They daren’t go out on the streets in fear.

[clausewitz]

Clockwork, please stop it, you are being too rationale. An election which Abhisit would surely win hands down since he's doing such a great job, would halt the bloodshed and the slide into 'anarchy', as the Nation hysterically puts it....if you read through the posts here, you can see that most farangs on here don't want a reasonable solution...what they want is to see some red-shirts skulls cracked by the army in the name of law and order....

Thats the trouble with people like Clockwork and grandpops- they point out the obvious in clear and reasoned ways.