Worsening Crisis Pushes Thailand Towards Anarchy

[bkkjames]

Mr. Level

Whatever mate, but how about this.

If the Army / police try to enter carrying shields and batons with a water canon or two, and are confronted by protesters throwing rocks, petrol bombs and worse, do they then have the right to defend themselves using alternative methods? Yes or no please.

[KireB]

.what they want is to see some red-shirts skulls cracked by the army in the name of law and order....

No such thing aas law and order in this country anymore.

The "rule of law" went out the window in 2006 when an illegal coup by the CNS happened.And that is the point that the rewind button as to go to to solve this problem.

If those dumb Yellows had not forced a coup then all these problems would never be happening.

Wrong! The rule of law was being destroyed by Thaksin and his cronies. The coup was consequence of teh actions of the criminal TRT group! Get your facts right!

[jackdawson]

it's terrible that the reds want the end of the monarchy .

how could they advocate such a thing ?

[vicco]

I know that there is trouble in the capital - but anarchy? Don't see it. Sitting in my house, cartoons are on for my son. Gardener is watering my plants, True internet and TV working as normal. Aircon is on, so electricity is working. The only anarchy I see at the moment is TV posters battling back and forth. I prefer my world to yours - out.

Exactly the same here for me. The "anarchy" appears to be confined to maybe a square Kilometer of Bankok...but people who live and work in capital cities always seem to think

that the universe ends at the city limits. The press does not help matters by putting out grossly exaggerated stories and speculation. I went to the railway station in Khonkaen when they held the army train captive. The mood was quite festive and the "captured" soldiers seemed to be enjoying it a lot more than playing army games. That's not to downplay the seriousness of the situation in Bankok, but lets keep things in perspective for goodness sake. Garbage journalism is probably a bigger threat to Thailand than the redshirts....they do say the pen is mightier than the sword...for good or evil.

[bangkoklight]

I would add to that that you are free to speak as long as it is in line with redshirt thinking. If you complain about being searched by unauthorised thugs your car gets damaged. When will this lead to beatings and murder? Not long is my guess.

Those people who blame the government for this are idiots. Arguing about the date for an election does not give people the right to walk all over other people's rights. What democracy is this that the redshirts constantly bleat on about? Attempting to derail trains, grenade attacks on people who don't agree with them, harrassing doctors, intimidation of people across the country. What gives them the right to spread fear across the country? What gives idiots on this message board the right to dismiss the fears of other people by saying "oh, you yellow shirt supporter"? Is that the next step? Genocide of yellow shirts? Anything is possible in this anarchy. This is what I call evil. This is dictatorship by mob.

The Union of <deleted> Dictators get off the streets and let normal people lead a peaceful life and be free to disagree with you.

May I ask you nickupton, why did the protest at Suvarnabhumi Airport in 2008 only last 9 days and why was it relatively peaceful?

[4223rhodes]

it's terrible that the reds want the end of the monarchy .

how could they advocate such a thing ?

I think this is a figment of "yellow journalism". Kasit and the rest of his degenerates will stop at nothing.

[jonclark]

Perhaps things will change but outside of Bangkok, I do not see any anarchy at all. In fact nothing has changed in the least.. It does seem sometimes that Bangkok is separate from the rest of Thailand. Personally, I hope there is no more violence in Bangkok or anywhere else. But if their is violence in Bangkok, I do not believe this will necessarily lead to a civil war. As long as farmers have crops and vendors can sell their goods I think life will just go on.

Sadly Abhisit and Suthep and the Yellow side want blood and death, nothing else can explain their actions.

It will likely start on Friday evening or Saturday morning (perhaps the most likely is Saturday morning as they will attempt during 12 hours of daylight to get the protest site back).

The ramping up of the Yellow propaganda machine is all about attempting to make things seem so bad they can say they were justified to go on their killing spree of innocent protesters.

Expect the Yellow propaganda machine to work more and more in the days ahead, and expect many "fake Reds" action designed to upset the people of Bangkok in order to get the acceptance that Reds must die and so use force is ok.

You can see that the media is already trying to spout the same excuses used some years back for killing all the students.

Someone appears to want to get the reputation of "Butcher of Bangkok".

Military Coup, Judicial Coup, Parliamentary Coup and now perhaps a more open "Slaughter" is going to happen.

Shame on them all if they do.

So levelhead - As you seem to support the reds / or are opposed to the yellows, maybe you could offer some advice to the neutrals in this to help form a more balanced view. How do I as a neutral seperate the actions of 'fake' reds, from the actions of 'true' reds. And was, in your opinion the disruption of the BTS (although a minor problem) the actions of 'fake' or 'true' reds?

[whybother]

It seems to be useless discussing current issues with a red supporter.

They will always go back to a point in the past to blame someone else for the current happenings. They ignore anything bad that has ever been done by reds (and before them, Thaksin and his supporters), to the point that EVERYTHING these people did was actually good, in their opinion.

They will condemn anything that the current government does, and applaud anything the red protesters do, regardless of whether any of it is good or bad.

They believe that anyone that is even slightly critical of Thaksin or the red protestors is a Yellow, an elite or a government lackie, that wants the poor to stay poor, and the rich to get richer.

For a red supporter, there is no middle ground. It's either you support Thaksin and everything he stands for, or you are totally against all the poor of Thailand.

Why bother.

[RockyBeerbelly]

This is what happened last time, after similar tactics by what is now "Team Yellow" allowed for a slaughter to take place.

It now seems history is repeating itself. The PAD and Team Yellow appear to want to see this happening again.

This time perhaps the leaders will be Abhisit and Suthep who might earn their reputations in "infamy" very soon. The world is watching.

Lets hope peace prevails and Abhisit dissolves the House.

Strange that you post this link and then link it to Abhisit! Of course you know that one of the main culprits in this whole sad episode of Thai history was Samak, and we all know who's friend he was!! Fortunately only one person died on the 6th of October 1976, right levelhead? That is exactly the level of people the reds are made off. Lying, cheating, killing, and suppressing anyone who isn't thinking the same as them. Dangerous idiots....

[clausewitz]

Does anyone else (apart from the current governement) think that Aung San Suu Kyi is on Thaksins payroll?

http://www.dvb.no/news/suu-kyi-wades-into-...and-crisis/8738

Burma opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi has drawn the ire of Thai politicians after claiming that the country’s instability resulted from a constitution that was drawn up by the military.

She reportedly told lawyer Nyan Win that Burma “need not look very far” to see that “a new government coming to power under a constitution drawn up by the military will never be stable,” according to AFP.

“We just see Thailand. [Former prime minister] Thaksin was an elected person. The military seized the power from an elected person. The constitution was drawn up by the military.”

“After that, what happened with the first [government]? It was not stable,” she said of the short-lived administration that followed the coup. “This was a result of the constitution being written by the military.”

Suu Kyi’s comments have angered the upper echelons of the Thai government, whose grip on power is now looking tenuous.

Thai news agency Matichon quoted a Thai senator as saying that he was “so very disappointed” with the comments “because Mrs Aung San Suu Kyi should understand Thailand better”.

He also reportedly demanded that an “audit of the financial path” to Suu Kyi be made public to see whether she had “received support from anyone,” likely a reference to Thaksin.

[KireB]

The ramping up of the Yellow propaganda machine is all about attempting to make things seem so bad they can say they were justified to go on their killing spree of innocent protesters.

Expect the Yellow propaganda machine to work more and more in the days ahead, and expect many "fake Reds" action designed to upset the people of Bangkok in order to get the acceptance that Reds must die and so use force is ok.

The Yellows’ propaganda machine is obscene. Lying is second nature to them as it always has been. Sondhi Limthongkul should be imprisoned for life for all this. The Yellows’ childish tactics and dirty games just go to show their cause and campaign is nearing its end. They daren’t go out on the streets in fear.

Not just the Yellows are fearing the Reds, it the whole society that has become afraid of the Red Terror machine.

[nickupton]

These people have something to lose, as do quite a few Phuket/Samui/Bangkok farangs whose "wives" are part of the middle class that lives off of Democrat corruption.

Oh, and that justifies intimidation, violence and walking over other people's right to get on with life without fear does it?

My wife is part of this so-called corrupt middle class that is supposed to be living a life of luxury at the expense of red shirt supporters. She has studied hard for degrees in a number of fields and ends up with jobs that pay very little. We live with her family because we are trying to save enough money to buy our own house. All her family work hard at jobs that don't really pay enough. We are certainly not living off corruption and have no "contacts" to get us ahead in life.

However, the fact that people like us are horrified at the anarchy the red shirts are causing leaves us to be dismissed as "corrupt, rich, middle class or yellow shirts". Thanks for the democratic right to disagree.

Oh, and The Nation are probably pissed with Thaksin because every time they wrote a critical article of him they were sued and/or raided by the police. We know what type of democracy we get under the redshirt party, it includes the democratic right for the PM to decide who should be shot in the street by the police without trial.

[nickupton]

It seems to be useless discussing current issues with a red supporter.

They will always go back to a point in the past to blame someone else for the current happenings. They ignore anything bad that has ever been done by reds (and before them, Thaksin and his supporters), to the point that EVERYTHING these people did was actually good, in their opinion.

They will condemn anything that the current government does, and applaud anything the red protesters do, regardless of whether any of it is good or bad.

They believe that anyone that is even slightly critical of Thaksin or the red protestors is a Yellow, an elite or a government lackie, that wants the poor to stay poor, and the rich to get richer.

For a red supporter, there is no middle ground. It's either you support Thaksin and everything he stands for, or you are totally against all the poor of Thailand.

Why bother.

Because if you don't bother this type of fascist attitude will be allowed to prosper and rule the country.

[KireB]

Oh, and The Nation are probably pissed with Thaksin because every time they wrote a critical article of him they were sued and/or raided by the police. We know what type of democracy we get under the redshirt party, it includes the democratic right for the PM to decide who should be shot in the street by the police without trial.

They were also raided by the 'Caravan of the Poor', a group that laid the foundation ofthe present day Reds.

The Reds are not new, they been here for quite some time now, from the stated caravan to the thugs that beat up women and old fooks atthe Central World, etc...

Edited April 27, 2010 by KireB

[hammered]

I was just looking at that army supplied chart of the plot against the monarchy. I dont know where this is all going but it is quite worrying. Take a look at it. It includes more than just Giles and Red Siam or something and includes pretty much the whole opposition by naming Peau Thai Party. We are really in uncharted territotry now. Do all of these people really want to change the system?

By the way you can get it with English translation via BPundit blog

[neverdie]

Its definately starting to feel like 'Groundhog Day' around here

[whybother]

Is this the sort of democracy we can expect under a red government?

Freedom of speech unless it is against us.

Red-shirts Form Special Units to Counter Multi Colored Shirt Group

The red-shirt core leaders have revealed that special units have been set up to 'counter' the movements of anti-red groups that are calling themselves the 'multi-colored shirt' group.

The largest anti-red shirt civic movement is being led by Dr. Tul Sittisomwong.

-- Tan Network 2010-04-27

I suppose it worked under Thaksin ... why not continue.

Edited April 27, 2010 by whybother

[Koh_Falang]

I notice there is a lot of argument regarding whos to blame... whos cause is just and who is pulling the strings etc...

Call them what you will... Regardless of who they are and what they stand for, they are going about the wrong way to get it...

___________________________________________________________________________

You cannot have a functioning government when groups of people (Regardless of shirt colour) are free to close off major areas of business and transit, stop military movements and render the police useless. Thats not a protest, thats just causing chaos till you get what you want.

If any of the leaders which instigated the lawless protesting (both now and 2 years ago) were true to democracy, they would understand that.

If Thai society eventually undertake a will to uphold proper democracy and justice, maybe things will be better... Until then, your voting comes down to a business transaction for the highest bidder, rather than a personal conviction about who is best to run a nation into success.

[quiksilva]

Is this the sort of democracy we can expect under a red government?

Freedom of speech unless it is against us.

Red-shirts Form Special Units to Counter Multi Colored Shirt Group

The red-shirt core leaders have revealed that special units have been set up to 'counter' the movements of anti-red groups that are calling themselves the 'multi-colored shirt' group.

The largest anti-red shirt civic movement is being led by Dr. Tul Sittisomwong.

-- Tan Network 2010-04-27

I suppose it worked under Thaksin ... why not continue.

Translation their boys on bikes will turn up looking to intimidate the other group to disperse or look for a fight.

[Jerrytheyoung]

I was just looking at that army supplied chart of the plot against the monarchy. I dont know where this is all going but it is quite worrying. Take a look at it. It includes more than just Giles and Red Siam or something and includes pretty much the whole opposition by naming Peau Thai Party. We are really in uncharted territotry now. Do all of these people really want to change the system?

By the way you can get it with English translation via BPundit blog

Apparently it is pure fake information launched by Suthep. The red Shirt leaders are suing him on this matter, (webfact)

[pontius]

Hey, if you wait long enough then any problem will just go away by itself, innit.

[jayjay0]

.what they want is to see some red-shirts skulls cracked by the army in the name of law and order....

No such thing aas law and order in this country anymore.

The "rule of law" went out the window in 2006 when an illegal coup by the CNS happened.And that is the point that the rewind button as to go to to solve this problem.

If those dumb Yellows had not forced a coup then all these problems would never be happening.

Wrong! The rule of law was being destroyed by Thaksin and his cronies. The coup was consequence of teh actions of the criminal TRT group! Get your facts right!

You and others talk about rule of law.like it was the same as justice. WRONG rule of law is just what people have agreed on to be law. For instance if murder was decriminalized and you killed some one it would be OK because rule of law would not apply. Is that justice. I think not.

[way2muchcoffee]

By the way you can get it with English translation via BPundit blog

could you provide a link for the english translation please? I've found the original article with the chart but I can't find the english translation of the chart.

[tim73]

Its definately starting to feel like 'Groundhog Day' around here

Yes, pick your color and start flaming Tomorrow pick another one.

[retarius]

I don't know how any westerner can actually support the red protestors with how they are acting now.

Red supporters condemn the government, the army, the elite and the yellows. There are some good reasons to condemn these groups for their actions in the past.

But you support the lawlessness of the reds.

You support them shutting down a city of 10 million people.

You support them searching individuals going about their daily lives.

You support them shutting down roads around the country.

You support them bringing down the economy which will affect all Thais, and especially the poorer ones, for years to come.

Is this the sort of country that you want to live in?

A country where a small minority can do anything that they want? I am not talking about the grass roots red supporters, the poor farmers, the factory workers, the construction workers.

I am talking about the thugs searching people, searching cars, blockading highways. If they can do this now, what will they be able to do if their leaders control the government, the police and the army?

Support the poor. Condemn the elite.

But don't support the thugs ruining the country.

Pretty easy really...I sympathize with the red cause because I live in Isan and every day I see the deprived lives of these poor farmers breaking their backs in the field for a pittance...when I contrast that the to life of luxury and privilege of the corrupt elite it makes me vomit...as a farang I'm obliged to keep out of it directly and to avoid discussing it with Thai people.

[jcbangkok]

TAN Network: Reporters are revealing that red leaders claiming that BTS blockage was not ordered; protesters are acting on their own accord

Have they condemned this action of their followers? Have they expressed sorrow (for the victims) or condemned the acts of grenades being launched on civilians at the BTS?

Edited April 27, 2010 by jcbangkok

[ham]

I know that there is trouble in the capital - but anarchy? Don't see it. Sitting in my house, cartoons are on for my son. Gardener is watering my plants, True internet and TV working as normal. Aircon is on, so electricity is working. The only anarchy I see at the moment is TV posters battling back and forth. I prefer my world to yours - out.

...................Garbage journalism is probably a bigger threat to Thailand than the redshirts....they do say the pen is mightier than the sword...for good or evil.

that one who get's to the point!

[hammered]

I was just looking at that army supplied chart of the plot against the monarchy. I dont know where this is all going but it is quite worrying. Take a look at it. It includes more than just Giles and Red Siam or something and includes pretty much the whole opposition by naming Peau Thai Party. We are really in uncharted territotry now. Do all of these people really want to change the system?

By the way you can get it with English translation via BPundit blog

Apparently it is pure fake information launched by Suthep. The red Shirt leaders are suing him on this matter, (webfact)

I havent a clue to the veracity of it. I am also not sure of the wisdom of taking this to court as what if you lose? Certainly there are some open anti-monarchists on there and probably some hidden ones but it seems a stretch to me to include the whole Peau Thai party and the whole red movement. The main point though is this really is ramping things up into a very emotive area. Right now I know red supporters and they love their monarchy and odly enough I know red and yellows who can sit down, eat, drink and watch a game of football together without any problem. This kind of stuff is moving into the dangerous area of identifying as a red means you support what is clearly unacceptable in this country

As I said I dont know if there is a plot to change the state or not but these are very dangerous waters

[jonclark]

Is this the sort of democracy we can expect under a red government?

Freedom of speech unless it is against us.

Red-shirts Form Special Units to Counter Multi Colored Shirt Group

The red-shirt core leaders have revealed that special units have been set up to 'counter' the movements of anti-red groups that are calling themselves the 'multi-colored shirt' group.

The largest anti-red shirt civic movement is being led by Dr. Tul Sittisomwong.

-- Tan Network 2010-04-27

I suppose it worked under Thaksin ... why not continue.

Translation their boys on bikes will turn up looking to intimidate the other group to disperse or look for a fight.

Hopefully the muliti colours will draw the reds away from the main rally site allowing the army to disperse the group.

I admire the essential principles of the reds , wanting equality etc. but I <deleted>**ing hate how they are going about it. It turns me right off them. And many others feel the same. Come on Abhisit give them what they want.... not a fight, an election within three months you and your coalition will be back in power with a larger majority than you have now.

[clockworkorange]

I'll call your bluff! elections are called in 90 days as per red's demand. Due to an absence of volunteers, my gf puts herself forward as a democrat candidate for any electorate in Isaan. Which would you recommend? She really would prefer not to be harassed/attacked/killed.

"Thais just want their democracy back" If opposition candidates cannot campaign, they don't have a democracy. by definition, they have a totalatarian (spelling?) state. The only way to get their democracy back is to stop the thuggery and intimidation.

Your avatar depicts an ultra-violent sadist, rapist and murderer. someone to look up to?

The fact that the Democrats are unpopular in Isan could be on account of the fact that successive Democrat led governments have done absolutely nothing to improve the lot of the average Isan voter. Hence, your girlfriend may not get elected, and may well not be popular, given that the Democrats stole the seat from the leader that the Isan people did rightfully elect. Analogous to the reception that your girlfriend would likely receive is if a far-right fascist ran for election in a Jewish suburb in the western world.

It follows from the above that if the Democrat party changed and represented the wishes of the average Isaner in the same way that Thaksin's lot helped them, your girlfrriend would get elected to parliament.

That's the way that democracy works. It represents the way people feel and the qualities that they want to see represented in their leaders. Smug elitists like Abhisit do nothing for your average (i.e. not only bangkok) Thai. He couldn't care less about them, has misjudged them as irrelevant, and is now paying for that mistake with his career.

Edited April 27, 2010 by clockworkorange