Thai Forces Fire Warning Shots In Standoff With Red Shirts

[zthyadat]

Great pictures on tv of about 50 military all firing in sync what look like shotguns at red shirts (unarmed) on motorbikes

The rubber bullets are special shells fired from shotguns.

[Jingthing]

A question for you.... If Abhisit is legally the PM why does the worlds media doubt it?In every article or interview with Abhisit it is raised as an issue. When he is asked about it he looks very uncomfortable. Are the world's media all wrong and you and the Nation right?

Simple. They have heard the red propaganda and being objective journalists they know there are different sides to any story, so they ask the most piercing questions they can come up with. That's their job. They are not expressing an opinion by doing so if they are pros. Of course, they are not all pros. In the west, asking piercing confrontational questions of people in authority is NORMAL. This is not the Thai way so may easily be misunderstood by many Thais.

Edited April 28, 2010 by Jingthing

[jcbangkok]

Army leaders talking but not really saying anything yet .. appear to just be talking about the events of the day today.

[Neurath]

What??? You don't negotiate with demands.....what the hel_l do you negotiate with then? Do you think trade union negotiators start off with..."ahem....if it would not be too much trouble,...do you think maybe the company could see its way to giving the workers a $10 an hour increase...please...pretty please? or might it be more like..."Right, Item 1..$10 an hour wage increase..non negotiable" Item 2........Company kicks their ass out of the room....Strike. is called.. after.2 months of threats, posturing, politics backstabbing, and back room deals......the union accepts $2 an hour. That's how negotiations work in the real world. Been there done that.

And what backs up the Trade Union demand is the removal of their labor. Not, in Australia at least, or the last time I was there, the actuality of the forced closure of the city backed by arms. Should the Reds want to strike through organized labor go for them. I'd certainly support some solid unionization of the workforce here. Unfortunately, the powers that be put a bloody end to that in the early 70's.

[retarius]

-- The Nation

Police confiscated 63 M-79 grenades from a motorcycle during a search on Vibhavadi Rangsit road on Wednesday.

Police stopped a motorcycle at a checkpoint set up after red shirts protesters clashed with troops on the road. Driver of the vehicle stopped as ordered but managed to run away.

Police then searched the vehicle and confiscated a total of 63 M-79 grenades from the vehicle.

It is still unclear how the explosives were packed.

Also found were documents of Pol Sgt Pratya Maneekote of Patum Thani's Kukot district.

Police could not say whether the drive was the sergeant.

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Morons. They managed to let the guy flee. On foot. On an elevated expressway. Aren't situation like this one precisely why policemen get issued guns? Fortunately the guy was even more of a moron and left his papers behind. At least this will decrease the stock of M79 grenades ready to be tossed around Bangkok.

I don't believe this was staged: it looks too much like sheer stupidity at work.

How do you hide or even carry 63 grenades on a motorcycle? Where would you put them? How can a driver run away and get away?

Investigative reporters of the Nation please do your homework and at least make your stories half believable.

This sounds like the report in the Nation that 6000 AK47s and ammo that were supposedly stolen from an army depot just before the rally began...if an AK47 weighs 25 pounds (I'm guessing) you would need a train to cart the stuff away...think about it the guns would weigh about 75 tons...the Nation thinks its readers are idiots, and they are right....

[jcbangkok]

Army leaders now showing the confiscated grenades. Confirm they came off motorcycle.

[lannarebirth]

I don't think we know enough to know for sure why the latest demand didn't go further. I suspect it has something to do with red shirt leader immunity. I think the government may feel that is impossible to grant now after what has recently happened.

Not only the immunity thing but this was a demand that must be met (house dissolution in 30 days) before they would even agree to sit down and talk.

Plus Abhisit has been pretty clear this is not a solution to Thailand's problems and the Reds are by no means a representative of all the parties and people in Thailand who also need to be considered. Although not said in these words he also seemed to indicate that ...

Elections under threats by a mob will solve nothing and will simply lead to more coups. Remember there have been 18 coups in Thailand in 77 years. This is almost 1 for every 4-year election period.

Abhisit is also legally the PM and was voted in by elected parliment as was the last two PMs. There is NO legal reason for him to hold elections and there is NOTHING going on in the country to indicate he should hold early elections accept for a lawless mob whose only goal is to bring down the current gov't in hopes of bringing back one that is banned and whose leader is a convicted Thai criminal on the run. Make no mistake about it ... the red leaders have made clear that NO policies Abhisit could put in place will save him from their demands to hold elections. THIS IS NOTHING ABOUT THE NEEDS OF THE POOR AND STILL REMAINS TO BE ABOUT 1 MAN.

The facts are very clear that Abisit in 18 months has provided a number of policies to help the poor and elderly as well as the farmers of Thailand and has implimented NO policies to hurt them. He has not taken away anything Thaksin in 6 years put in place and in fact has taken some of Thaksin's policies and made them better such as FREE healthcare instead of Thaksin's one time payment thing which was a failure.

A question for you.... If Abhisit is legally the PM why does the worlds media doubt it?In every article or interview with Abhisit it is raised as an issue. When he is asked about it he looks very uncomfortable. Are the world's media all wrong and you and the Nation right?

A question for you...... Why aren't the Red Shirt leaders willing to be grilled in the same way for an international audience, whereby they must defend everything they have said and done?

[bkkjames]

Army leaders on TV talking now.

Recapping todays incident and showed the grenades I think?

[Motoon]

Negotiations start with demand and offer. A non-negotiable demand is a rather unfortunate base for negotiations, as there can be no negotiation, only either acceptance or dismissal. Savvy?

Give us what we want and then after that we will talk. This exactly what they demanded.

Exactly and therefore no further negotiation were possible...The Government could have accepted = no further negotiations needed or, as they did, dismissed the demand = no further negotiations needed, only waiting for the next move.

[Jingthing]

I don't think we know enough to know for sure why the latest demand didn't go further. I suspect it has something to do with red shirt leader immunity. I think the government may feel that is impossible to grant now after what has recently happened.

Not only the immunity thing but this was a demand that must be met (house dissolution in 30 days) before they would even agree to sit down and talk.

Plus Abhisit has been pretty clear this is not a solution to Thailand's problems and the Reds are by no means a representative of all the parties and people in Thailand who also need to be considered. Although not said in these words he also seemed to indicate that ...

Elections under threats by a mob will solve nothing and will simply lead to more coups. Remember there have been 18 coups in Thailand in 77 years. This is almost 1 for every 4-year election period.

Abhisit is also legally the PM and was voted in by elected parliment as was the last two PMs. There is NO legal reason for him to hold elections and there is NOTHING going on in the country to indicate he should hold early elections accept for a lawless mob whose only goal is to bring down the current gov't in hopes of bringing back one that is banned and whose leader is a convicted Thai criminal on the run. Make no mistake about it ... the red leaders have made clear that NO policies Abhisit could put in place will save him from their demands to hold elections. THIS IS NOTHING ABOUT THE NEEDS OF THE POOR AND STILL REMAINS TO BE ABOUT 1 MAN.

The facts are very clear that Abisit in 18 months has provided a number of policies to help the poor and elderly as well as the farmers of Thailand and has implimented NO policies to hurt them. He has not taken away anything Thaksin in 6 years put in place and in fact has taken some of Thaksin's policies and made them better such as FREE healthcare instead of Thaksin's one time payment thing which was a failure.

A question for you.... If Abhisit is legally the PM why does the worlds media doubt it?In every article or interview with Abhisit it is raised as an issue. When he is asked about it he looks very uncomfortable. Are the world's media all wrong and you and the Nation right?

A question for you...... Why aren't the Red Shirt leaders willing to be grilled in the same way for an international audience, whereby they must defend everything they have said and done?

Great question! I would love to see them on Hard Talk! That would be priceless. Of course, they never would because they are rabidly anti-free press and anti-democracy. They are for free press ONLY if it is their propaganda.

[AZBill]

1 troop, 10 protesters injured in Don Muang clash

One troop with severe head injury and 10 protesters were admitted to the Bhumibhol following the clash between anti-riot troops and red-shirt protesters near the Air Force headquarters.

The protesters were injured by rubber bullets.

The troop appeared to have been shot at his head.

-- The Nation 2010-04-28

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

So much for the unarmed Reds. About to come back to Bangkok this weekend but this time just picking up the teeruk and taking her and my money to Macau instead of other Thai destinations. I'll come back to Thailand when things settle down, and it's not that I'm worried about getting hurt, but I'm conducting my own protest over all this stupidity, not to mention the shabby treatment we Farang receive when we are there. Enough is enough!

[elcent]

wrong thread

Edited April 28, 2010 by elcent

[zthyadat]

-- The Nation

Police confiscated 63 M-79 grenades from a motorcycle during a search on Vibhavadi Rangsit road on Wednesday.

Police stopped a motorcycle at a checkpoint set up after red shirts protesters clashed with troops on the road. Driver of the vehicle stopped as ordered but managed to run away.

Police then searched the vehicle and confiscated a total of 63 M-79 grenades from the vehicle.

It is still unclear how the explosives were packed.

Also found were documents of Pol Sgt Pratya Maneekote of Patum Thani's Kukot district.

Police could not say whether the drive was the sergeant.

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Morons. They managed to let the guy flee. On foot. On an elevated expressway. Aren't situation like this one precisely why policemen get issued guns? Fortunately the guy was even more of a moron and left his papers behind. At least this will decrease the stock of M79 grenades ready to be tossed around Bangkok.

I don't believe this was staged: it looks too much like sheer stupidity at work.

How do you hide or even carry 63 grenades on a motorcycle? Where would you put them? How can a driver run away and get away?

Investigative reporters of the Nation please do your homework and at least make your stories half believable.

Ummm... maybe in a box on a luggage rack? They fit families of four on bikes here. And the M79s are small. You could fit that many in a motorcycle top box fairly easily.

[jcbangkok]

military now showing grenades and bags they were carried in. Not sure if this actually happened on an elevated expressway because they said something about suspect running down a Soi to get away. They also confirm the amount being 6o+

[centrico]

Negotiations start with demand and offer. A non-negotiable demand is a rather unfortunate base for negotiations, as there can be no negotiation, only either acceptance or dismissal. Savvy?

Give us what we want and then after that we will talk. This exactly what they demanded.

Exactly and therefore no further negotiation were possible...The Government could have accepted = no further negotiations needed or, as they did, dismissed the demand = no further negotiations needed, only waiting for the next move.

From page 1 in the Nation report

Abhisit, regarded as elitist and undemocratic by his opponents, has rejected an offer by the Reds to disperse if elections are held in three months' time.

Seems the Reds were negotiating and willing to disperse. Yet the government refused that 3 month time limit also. Thereby the reds did alter their demands but had the newer ones rejected also?

[xminator]

Army leaders now showing the confiscated grenades. Confirm they came off motorcycle.

I guess everyone on this forum one time or another have read "Money number 1" to kill time, and know the story about 1 legged chickens and what it represents. There is a lot of 1 legged (and in some cases no legs) chickens running around Bangkok right now. Including red camp and government camp. And true to thai culture they will not gain any legs no matter how many dead horses get whipped in process.

[Loz]

More blood on the Red's hands.

Your sumit else mate

the guy shot in the head was by friendly fire let me spell that out for you

that means he was shot by his own men not red shirts

And of course, you have a source and evidence for that statement....

BBC is reporting it friendly fire CNN is reporting it friendly fire only the Nation is not being clear on it

THanks for the heads up (no pun intended). I didn't realise quite how this news was....er...coming to us.

Appreciate it.

[xminator]

1 troop, 10 protesters injured in Don Muang clash

One troop with severe head injury and 10 protesters were admitted to the Bhumibhol following the clash between anti-riot troops and red-shirt protesters near the Air Force headquarters.

The protesters were injured by rubber bullets.

The troop appeared to have been shot at his head.

-- The Nation 2010-04-28

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

So much for the unarmed Reds. About to come back to Bangkok this weekend but this time just picking up the teeruk and taking her and my money to Macau instead of other Thai destinations. I'll come back to Thailand when things settle down, and it's not that I'm worried about getting hurt, but I'm conducting my own protest over all this stupidity, not to mention the shabby treatment we Farang receive when we are there. Enough is enough!

And according to BBC and CNN he was shot trough the head by his own side, for the slow reader, the military, that is for the even slower reader, NOT the red. I will be pleasantly surprised if any thai controlled media will mention this fact while controlled by the current government.

[retarius]

A question for you.... If Abhisit is legally the PM why does the worlds media doubt it?In every article or interview with Abhisit it is raised as an issue. When he is asked about it he looks very uncomfortable. Are the world's media all wrong and you and the Nation right?

Simple. They have heard the red propaganda and being objective journalists they know there are different sides to any story, so they ask the most piercing questions they can come up with. That's their job. They are not expressing an opinion by doing so if they are pros. Of course, they are not all pros. In the west, asking piercing confrontational questions of people in authority is NORMAL. This is not the Thai way so may easily be misunderstood by many Thais.

Landof the free....pretty simple really....a lot of the world's quality media don't have any axe to grind, so they tend to be less biased....in most of the world, when a military coup takes place, deposes a popular elected leader, writes a constitution and makes it a crime punishable by 20 years in prison to criticize the constitution...then the world media views that constitution with a bit of suspicion...

Then when a group of armed (I saw the arms with my own eyes) paid (500Baht a day rent a thug) yellow shirts come out and close the airport and a new government is appointed by shadowy figures behind scenes who fund the yellow shirts, then, forgive their suspicion, but savvy reporters tend not to believe every shred of propaganda and outright lie that comes out of their yellow mouths...

If Thaksin was corrupt then he should have been dealt with as prescribed by the constitution ie in a court of law...he wasn't he was deposed in a military coup...however you look at it, this is undemocratic...so they question the legitimacy of the present incumbent

[lannarebirth]

Not only the immunity thing but this was a demand that must be met (house dissolution in 30 days) before they would even agree to sit down and talk.

Plus Abhisit has been pretty clear this is not a solution to Thailand's problems and the Reds are by no means a representative of all the parties and people in Thailand who also need to be considered. Although not said in these words he also seemed to indicate that ...

Elections under threats by a mob will solve nothing and will simply lead to more coups. Remember there have been 18 coups in Thailand in 77 years. This is almost 1 for every 4-year election period.

Abhisit is also legally the PM and was voted in by elected parliment as was the last two PMs. There is NO legal reason for him to hold elections and there is NOTHING going on in the country to indicate he should hold early elections accept for a lawless mob whose only goal is to bring down the current gov't in hopes of bringing back one that is banned and whose leader is a convicted Thai criminal on the run. Make no mistake about it ... the red leaders have made clear that NO policies Abhisit could put in place will save him from their demands to hold elections. THIS IS NOTHING ABOUT THE NEEDS OF THE POOR AND STILL REMAINS TO BE ABOUT 1 MAN.

The facts are very clear that Abisit in 18 months has provided a number of policies to help the poor and elderly as well as the farmers of Thailand and has implimented NO policies to hurt them. He has not taken away anything Thaksin in 6 years put in place and in fact has taken some of Thaksin's policies and made them better such as FREE healthcare instead of Thaksin's one time payment thing which was a failure.

A question for you.... If Abhisit is legally the PM why does the worlds media doubt it?In every article or interview with Abhisit it is raised as an issue. When he is asked about it he looks very uncomfortable. Are the world's media all wrong and you and the Nation right?

A question for you...... Why aren't the Red Shirt leaders willing to be grilled in the same way for an international audience, whereby they must defend everything they have said and done?

Great question! I would love to see them on Hard Talk! That would be priceless. Of course, they never would because they are rabidly anti-free press and anti-democracy. They are for free press ONLY if it is their propaganda.

Given a two day notice, I would buy a TV, get UBC and break my 10 year separation from the idiot box just to witness that spectacle.

[KireB]

Negotiations start with demand and offer. A non-negotiable demand is a rather unfortunate base for negotiations, as there can be no negotiation, only either acceptance or dismissal. Savvy?

Give us what we want and then after that we will talk. This exactly what they demanded.

Exactly and therefore no further negotiation were possible...The Government could have accepted = no further negotiations needed or, as they did, dismissed the demand = no further negotiations needed, only waiting for the next move.

From page 1 in the Nation report

Abhisit, regarded as elitist and undemocratic by his opponents, has rejected an offer by the Reds to disperse if elections are held in three months' time.

Seems the Reds were negotiating and willing to disperse. Yet the government refused that 3 month time limit also. Thereby the reds did alter their demands but had the newer ones rejected also?

Abhisit should indeed not negotiate with terrorists! First the reds back to their villages and motor taxi stands and then negotiate.

[jcbangkok]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/'>

PS. Army done talking. Mostly just a recap of today stressing the discovery of the grenades.

[Motoon]

-- The Nation

Police confiscated 63 M-79 grenades from a motorcycle during a search on Vibhavadi Rangsit road on Wednesday.

Police stopped a motorcycle at a checkpoint set up after red shirts protesters clashed with troops on the road. Driver of the vehicle stopped as ordered but managed to run away.

Police then searched the vehicle and confiscated a total of 63 M-79 grenades from the vehicle.

It is still unclear how the explosives were packed.

Also found were documents of Pol Sgt Pratya Maneekote of Patum Thani's Kukot district.

Police could not say whether the drive was the sergeant.

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Morons. They managed to let the guy flee. On foot. On an elevated expressway. Aren't situation like this one precisely why policemen get issued guns? Fortunately the guy was even more of a moron and left his papers behind. At least this will decrease the stock of M79 grenades ready to be tossed around Bangkok.

I don't believe this was staged: it looks too much like sheer stupidity at work.

How do you hide or even carry 63 grenades on a motorcycle? Where would you put them? How can a driver run away and get away?

Investigative reporters of the Nation please do your homework and at least make your stories half believable.

This sounds like the report in the Nation that 6000 AK47s and ammo that were supposedly stolen from an army depot just before the rally began...if an AK47 weighs 25 pounds (I'm guessing) you would need a train to cart the stuff away...think about it the guns would weigh about 75 tons...the Nation thinks its readers are idiots, and they are right....

You guys should do your homework too, just to not come across as ignorant. Hint = M-79 grenade, look up size, Motorcycle has ample storage space under the seat and 2 packs of plastic wrapped M-79 grenades would fit (30 gren. each), although whether they were there is speculation. Note that I'm referring to specs of the grenades and not to actual events.

Btw: AK-47 = 9.5pounds

[elcent]

"The laborer is worth his wages"

Now, I'm trying to put forward an idea which could eventually solve the problems. At least it could start a positive solution to this mess.

Thailand has a lot of workforce due to its youths, like in most Asian countries. It hurts how human resources are getting wasted here. There is a reasonable functioning of labor courts here but no reasonable worker Unions, which is controlled by police as far as I know. Now if someone donates the WTC-Bangkok, which was built on prostitution ring rackets and money laundering (well known secret), donates the same for the people to make it a center for Worker Unions with all kinds of branches in a professional manner, would that be to much to ask for, especially when one considers the extreme high costs of the civil unrest created by various elite guys for selfish reasons? This is what many don't like to hear, but this is also what keeps the balance in a society relatively peaceful.

All these black markets and grey zone businesses would be washed away and replaced by a more professional attitude. Thousands of lawyers would find a job by working closely with the labor courts and civil courts. Quality and also sufficiency would increase dramatically due to higher costs.

I'm sure that Foreign labor Unions would supply expertise and help with the setup, also financially. You can't call that communism but social justice, kind of socialism, without having to give up the beauty of the constitutional monarchy.

In other words, worker Unions with all of its different branches wouldn't be directly involved in politics, but carry a lot of weight and power to check the balances. It's a separate body, where leaders get elected by it's members on a regular base.

Instead of this senseless protests and blinding tactics by the so called red Fuehrers people should be given a real tool to make their ends meet.

Now, I consider myself a conservative - left leaning. OMG

[landofthefree]

military now showing grenades and bags they were carried in. Not sure if this actually happened on an elevated expressway because they said something about suspect running down a Soi to get away. They also confirm the amount being 6o+

If we had a free press I maybe would consider the possibility that this story could be true but because the media is run by the Government and army I don't believe anything they say. If you want to believe them go ahead. I believe that if it looks like bulls++t

sounds like BULLS++t and smells like bulls++t it probably is Bulls++t.

[landofthefree]

military now showing grenades and bags they were carried in. Not sure if this actually happened on an elevated expressway because they said something about suspect running down a Soi to get away. They also confirm the amount being 6o+

If we had a free press I maybe would consider the possibility that this story could be true but because the media is run by the Government and army I don't believe anything they say. If you want to believe them go ahead. I believe that if it looks like bulls++t

sounds like BULLS++t and smells like bulls++t it probably is Bulls++t.

[jdinasia]

1 troop, 10 protesters injured in Don Muang clash

One troop with severe head injury and 10 protesters were admitted to the Bhumibhol following the clash between anti-riot troops and red-shirt protesters near the Air Force headquarters.

The protesters were injured by rubber bullets.

The troop appeared to have been shot at his head.

-- The Nation 2010-04-28

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

So much for the unarmed Reds. About to come back to Bangkok this weekend but this time just picking up the teeruk and taking her and my money to Macau instead of other Thai destinations. I'll come back to Thailand when things settle down, and it's not that I'm worried about getting hurt, but I'm conducting my own protest over all this stupidity, not to mention the shabby treatment we Farang receive when we are there. Enough is enough!

And according to BBC and CNN he was shot trough the head by his own side, for the slow reader, the military, that is for the even slower reader, NOT the red. I will be pleasantly surprised if any thai controlled media will mention this fact while controlled by the current government.

That CNN was quoting the reds saying that the officer was killed by friendly fire seems to have been missed by some people. They have also quoted "Thai News Sources" as saying this.

AlJazeera is now reporting that the death has been attributed by Thai news sources and by the reds as friendly fire but that the EMS people and the military have both said that this is not accurate. Who do you believe? Well, AlJazeera had people at the scene and spoke with the EMS people ....

[TAWP]

Why oh why don't they have an election where the people vote for the government, not like this present one installed via military coup ?

They did have an election. Welcome to 2010.

[hammered]

Just heard from a friend of tge wife who couldnt get home and has been stuck for hours. BKK streets around Victory monumnet closed. Loads of troops. Lots of people. Anger towards red shirts immense. People cant get home blaming red shirts

[jcbangkok]

military now showing grenades and bags they were carried in. Not sure if this actually happened on an elevated expressway because they said something about suspect running down a Soi to get away. They also confirm the amount being 6o+

If we had a free press I maybe would consider the possibility that this story could be true but because the media is run by the Government and army I don't believe anything they say. If you want to believe them go ahead. I believe that if it looks like bulls++t

sounds like BULLS++t and smells like bulls++t it probably is Bulls++t.

Do you feel the same way when they report on something that fits your views and opinions?