PM Abhisit Announces Next Election Will Be Held On Nov 14

[jcbangkok]

but there is an underlying problem, and it isnt economic, its ethnic. the real problem is that the issan people are sick of being treated as second class citizens by the rest of the thais. and the other simmering problem is that the muslims are sick of being treated as third class citizens.

You've outlined a real problem in this society. It doesn't have anything specifically to do with the reason for this Red Shirt movement but it explains how rich political/merchant class organizers could readily get thousands of people to come fight on their behalf.

The same people who saw folks from Issan as being similar to illegal Laos' workers has remained the same be it before, during and after Thaksin's reign. So, I have to agree with you that this is only one of the button pressed to lead these lambs to a slaughter.

Edit: and actually after all the reds have been doing the last couple years there is not just looking down on them but actually hatred has been reached by many in the last month. I still am shocked when I hear Thais I have known for years and never see wish a bad thing towards anyone say they wish the army would simply kill them all that are occupying BKK. I am not making this up and it boggles my mind to hear these comments from people who I have seen be calm and rationale in some fairly trying circumstances.

Edited May 3, 2010 by jcbangkok

[enginerevision]

Abhisit just tries to safe his $ss, because he know's wen he resigns, his life is over.

Stupid "vision"! Get real.

Get real? Mmmm...let's see, where to start?

- Almost starting a war with Camobodia over a stupid temple?

- Dumping refugees out in the ocean to torture and then die?

- Introducing computer crimes act?

- Southern problems increased drastically?

- Drug problems increased drastically?

- Working together with the criminal Sondhi?

- According to CRES has taken illegal donations?

- Not allowing the Dalai Lama into Thailand?

- Deportation of Hmong refugees back to Communist Laos ?

- Rejecting human rights commisions?

- Need to go on?

Thaksin murdered 2500 Thais and he's still around. He has done other shit of course but 2500 dead Thais I think tops the list.

In January 2009, CNN investigations revealed that up to 1,000 Rohingya refugees from Myanmar had been captured by the Thai Navy, beaten, then towed out to sea without engines or navigational aids and with little food and water. Abhisit's initial response was to claim that the media reports were "exaggerated" and that the refugees would "sail on boats without engines or sink their ships so that authorities help them to get onshore.” Army Commander Anupong Paojinda denied the reports of abuse.

Abhisit enacted measures that required approximately 1.5 million migrants to register with the government under a new time-consuming system that involves verifying the " migrants " identities with their home governments, or be " arrested " and " deported " ( deported see above ).

What's the count again?

[monkfish]

Basically what Abhisit is saying is that there will be Elections on the 14th Nov 2010 if pigs can fly by that time.

Lets hope the Reds except his offer but I doubt it.

If I were them I would except the 6 month part but without the IF conditions.

Edited May 3, 2010 by monkfish

[Richard W]

In the last election, the Democrats received 259 million Baht in illegal donations, that they then used in the election. Abhisit was the chairman of the Democrats at the time the donations were received, so he knew everything about it.

Is there any evidence the money was spent on the election? Incidentally, it was the 2005 election

Thaksin murdered 2500 Thais and he's still around. He has done other shit of course but 2500 dead Thais I think tops the list.

Most Thais don't care about this.

[Jingthing]

Has none of you people the minium requirements to quality when comes to politic? Everybody with the smallest experience from politic knows this is crap of the worst kind. This is making fun of a whole population.

None of us people have the munium requirements to quality when comes to politic. You are a genius. Next ...

[gl9999]

In January 2009, CNN investigations revealed that up to 1,000 Rohingya refugees from Myanmar had been captured by the Thai Navy, beaten, then towed out to sea without engines or navigational aids and with little food and water. Abhisit's initial response was to claim that the media reports were "exaggerated" and that the refugees would "sail on boats without engines or sink their ships so that authorities help them to get onshore." Army Commander Anupong Paojinda denied the reports of abuse.

Abhisit enacted measures that required approximately 1.5 million migrants to register with the government under a new time-consuming system that involves verifying the " migrants " identities with their home governments, or be " arrested " and " deported " ( deported see above ).

What's the count again?

Humans are all of flesh and blood but 2500 THAIS trump a thousand refugees anytime. I know it sounds cold but turning away FOREIGN refugees is no where close to the murder of 2500 citizens.

And so what if the migrant population has to register? If they're not verified, they're deported. So what? You make it sound like every illegal immigrant that's deported is towed out to sea. Riiiight.

[elcent]

Has none of you people the minium requirements to quality when comes to politic? Everybody with the smallest experience from politic knows this is crap of the worst kind. This is making fun of a whole population.

None of us people have the munium requirements to quality when comes to politic. You are a genius. Next ...

politics is quite messy everywhere, but Thai politics seem to have the spiritual Armageddon incorporated.

So yes, I'm not qualified.

[jcbangkok]

Basically what Abhisit is saying is that there will be Elections on the 14th Nov 2010 if pigs can fly by that time.

Lets hope the Reds except his offer but I doubt it.

If I were them I would except the 6 month part but without the IF conditions.

You may be right re: the "ifs" but do you really think the reds have a choice but to accept? The leaders may still be under the delusion they have some kind of bargaining power to get amnesty but they are done. There lambs want to go home and cheered this news. The public and international community has turned on them and the PM will simply order the troops in to clear the area if they don't accept.

My original thoughts to this has always been the reds could have walked away winners if they negotiated with the PM when he was willing to talk to them and before they went completely rouge. The first "offer" from the PM was elections at the end of they year. Now here we are almost 2 months later and they get the same offer with more "ifs" but only after many deaths and injuries and untold economic and social hardships to untold Thai citizens and the entire country.

The PM's plan has been to get the numbers down and reducing injury to non-hardcore folks in the mob before clearing out the area and he has succeeded. If the reds don't accept then the troops are going to move in as the reds have always wanted but now they get no sympathy and instead of the PM looking bad, he will look like a strong leader and increase his popularity.

[enginerevision]

In January 2009, CNN investigations revealed that up to 1,000 Rohingya refugees from Myanmar had been captured by the Thai Navy, beaten, then towed out to sea without engines or navigational aids and with little food and water. Abhisit's initial response was to claim that the media reports were "exaggerated" and that the refugees would "sail on boats without engines or sink their ships so that authorities help them to get onshore." Army Commander Anupong Paojinda denied the reports of abuse.

Abhisit enacted measures that required approximately 1.5 million migrants to register with the government under a new time-consuming system that involves verifying the " migrants " identities with their home governments, or be " arrested " and " deported " ( deported see above ).

What's the count again?

Humans are all of flesh and blood but 2500 THAIS trump a thousand refugees anytime. I know it sounds cold but turning away FOREIGN refugees is no where close to the murder of 2500 citizens.

And so what if the migrant population has to register? If they're not verified, they're deported. So what? You make it sound like every illegal immigrant that's deported is towed out to sea. Riiiight.

The UN panel failed to establish sufficient evidence to charge Thaksin or anybody in the Cabinet or police force with the murders.

The 2500 number came " after " the 2006 coup...what a coincidence

So what? Every human live is the same isn't it? You'r saying their lives ( refugees ) is worth nothing.

[Jingthing]

Yeah, the red leaders blew it. They shouldn't have walked away from the original negotiations. Now they are implicated in numerous terrorist acts and their movement has been seriously discredited. I still don't know if they will say yes though, they may have gone too far over the line to do so. Plus the Thaksin factor; I can't imagine he is going to like this deal.

Edited May 3, 2010 by Jingthing

[LuckyFive8888]

I can't say 'terrorist" because I think that is what got me a 7 day suspension for Ijustwannateach. I didn't know what I said that was considered "flaming." When we get suspended we should at least get our post back and/or told what words or phrases we used to be branded as "flaming." So, I will not make many posts from here on out. I want the Red Shirt leaders put in prison and the rest of them out of Bangkok! Enough is enough. There is nothing these Red Shirts will not do. Nothing. Violence is what they want & the media from around the world has bought into this "democracy" movement by the UDD. The vast majority of these people have no idea what "democracy" is. Is it how much you get paid to vote for a certain candidate. Or how much you are paid to hold a city hostage?

yeah, beware. now i can only join TV every other week because of suspension. i'm getting pissed as i don't know what i did post and why i was suspended. FREEDOM of SPEECH here sucks.

OK, see you next week guys.

Edited May 3, 2010 by LuckyFive8888

[jcbangkok]

In January 2009, CNN investigations revealed that up to 1,000 Rohingya refugees from Myanmar had been captured by the Thai Navy, beaten, then towed out to sea without engines or navigational aids and with little food and water. Abhisit's initial response was to claim that the media reports were "exaggerated" and that the refugees would "sail on boats without engines or sink their ships so that authorities help them to get onshore." Army Commander Anupong Paojinda denied the reports of abuse.

Abhisit enacted measures that required approximately 1.5 million migrants to register with the government under a new time-consuming system that involves verifying the " migrants " identities with their home governments, or be " arrested " and " deported " ( deported see above ).

What's the count again?

Humans are all of flesh and blood but 2500 THAIS trump a thousand refugees anytime. I know it sounds cold but turning away FOREIGN refugees is no where close to the murder of 2500 citizens.

And so what if the migrant population has to register? If they're not verified, they're deported. So what? You make it sound like every illegal immigrant that's deported is towed out to sea. Riiiight.

The UN panel failed to establish sufficient evidence to charge Thaksin or anybody in the Cabinet or police force with the murders.

The 2500 number came " after " the 2006 coup...what a coincidence

So what? Every human live is the same isn't it? You'r saying their lives ( refugees ) is worth nothing.

You're right. Human Rights group has the number as high as 3,000 back in 2003.

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2003/10/16/thak...-welcome-apec-0

[gl9999]

The UN panel failed to establish sufficient evidence to charge Thaksin or anybody in the Cabinet or police force with the murders.

The 2500 number came " after " the 2006 coup...what a coincidence

So what? Every human live is the same isn't it? You'r saying their lives ( refugees ) is worth nothing.

You're either mistaken or deliberately misleading. The 2500 number came up weeks after he ordered the policy, not after the 2006 coup. This was by a human watch NGO.

I'm not saying human life isn't the same and I'm not saying a refugee's life is worth nothing. However, a head of government should be protecting the citizens of his own country first and foremost. Thaksin murdered them.

[DP25]

over twice more than 3 months, as proposed by the protesters, but a little shorter, than abhisit declaration of 9 months.

The original proposal was to have elections in December. Reds refused. It's now been a couple months and they've moved the election up an ENTIRE month to November. That sure was worth it reds!

[elcent]

some say they calculate the election date

I think it's a list of countries they can chose from

http://tweetphoto.com/20933282

I couldn't resist to post this here too.

[gatorsoft]

Abhisit and the government have made a very clever move. As pointed out by other posters, there isn't much new to this compromise from previous offers, but including an intention to address the inequalities at least creates the appearance of compromise and reconciliation. If the redshirts refuse this compromise outright, they risk global condemnation. The government has the opportunity to look like the peacemakers.

IMHO, the redshirts need to accept the compromise, or offer a reasonable alternative, while still making it clear that they are dubious about the government's sincerity. If the government fails to honor the intent and spirit of the agreement, there will undoubtedly be opportunities to ramp the protest movement back up. In the mean time, the country will have a chance to return to some normality, and hopefully the inflammatory rhetoric from both sides will cool down.

Somehow, the Thai people need to develop faith in the electoral process to effect change and resolve issues. This will be tough to accomplish in a nation that has had only one PM serve his entire term, and then he was deposed in a coup.

The worse case scenario for the redshirts, and the Thai people in general, would be that the government uses the next 6 months to suppress and dismantle the opposition, and/or refuses to hold the Nov 14 elections for any reason, valid or not. If the government uses their position to suppress the opposition, and/or refuses to conduct the elections, any future credibility is lost and sympathy will swing back to the redshirts.

I agree that whatever happens in November, there will undoubtedly be groups that don't like the outcome and want to take to the streets again. However, it seems to me that the first priority right now is to get both sides to stand down and remove the guns from each others heads (figuratively, not literally) so the rest of the Thai people can get life back to something that passes for normal and quit being victimized by the conflict.

The government's tendency to censor and suppress any perceived opposition makes me doubt their sincerity, but if they are never given a chance to prove themselves, then the opposition are the bad guys.

It seems like these boards are an accurate microcosm for what is happening in Thailand right now. Everyone assumes that they know what the real issues and motivations are, and of course their interpretation is the only valid one. Making decisions that effect an entire nation based on personal preconceptions may not be the best way to find the way back to the land of smiles. Both sides should try to understand the opposing viewpoint with an open mind. While I believe that the redshirts have some legitimate grievances, they have put the government in the impossible position of having to give in to what seems like extortion to make any concessions. Similarly, the government be labeling the redshirts terrorists and anti-monarchy, put them in a do or die, last stand kind of mentality.

The government has followed a somewhat sucessful policy of giving the redshirts enough rope to hang themselves. Now is the time for the redshirts to switch roles. Call the government's bluff and accept the compromise. If they are insincere and start backpedaling, they will be the ones hanging themselves.

Hopefully both sides will let their true love of Thailand and the monarchy win out, and give reconciliation a chance.

[cdnvic]

I've had enough of the childish name calling and fighting. If you can't discuss things maturly you will find yourself barred from posting soon.

One post and a reply removed.

[473geo]

I've always admired in Thailand the ability of the people to move on whatever cards life dealt the previous day

What a pity so many posters are so steeped in bickering about the past, and concentrating on the art of oneupmanship, they fail to realise that there may just be a chink of light for an improved future for Thailand

[deadsnoopy]

Amnesty will be an issue here - apart from that, I would like to hear the objections to this suggestion. It sounds better than any other alternatives we have right now.

Amnesty for them would open the door for amnesty for Thaksin as well.

No way. Double standards in Thailand prohibit that.

[jitenshaman]

This sounds very nice and finally unlock the situation. Also it makes really govt look like the good guys willing to compromise while the other side... Reds would be crazy to refuse after the bad days they had. However, with terrorists charges threatening and no mention of amnesty in his 5 points program, they might ask to have amnesty added as a number 6 prior to give in.

Where's the compromise?

This sounds just government BS "we're here to help you"

Abhisit is going to have to get real and act like a real leader!

Elections are due in 18 months --- Abhisit is offering 6 months and doing so publicly. That is over a year EARLY. If he acted the way MANY people wanted him to there would be a lot of blood .... (The Reds want blood and so do many of the locals in BKK and then there is the more extreme in the PAD that want it. --- Thankfully the PAD is a minority as are the reds ... and while Abhisit may lose a little support in BKK he will likely gain support upcountry.)

Funny - Abhisit said he would NEVER do this - anyhow I don't like some of this but it should be grasped as Abhisit has capitulated and reds should concentrate on trouncing him at the election - he's finished

not really...because as other posters have written, it moves the election date past the reshuffling of the military hierarchy, allowing Anupong's successor to come in, and it ensures that Thaksin's chance for regaining power becomes more limited, even should the Reds win the election...Abhisit may not last, but he also ensures that the Reds are left without their figurehead.

[deadsnoopy]

not really...because as other posters have written, it moves the election date past the reshuffling of the military hierarchy, allowing Anupong's successor to come in, and it ensures that Thaksin's chance for regaining power becomes more limited, even should the Reds win the election...Abhisit may not last, but he also ensures that the Reds are left without their figurehead.

So really, what that means is that if Thaksin's party wins, the army will stage another coup and prevent them from taking office. What's the purpose of an election then? That's no Democracy, that's Dictatorship, I'm sorry.

[KevinB]

Sorry if this is irrelevant because it's been discussed already - but it was so boring - the members fighting and bickering - that I jumped to the end. This is not a compromise because the PM decides if everyone has played by his rules and plain and simple he's not trusted. So many of you think the Reds have blown it - they haven't their supporters still support them. They have never been "popular" in Bangkok which is what this is all about. They have made this Government look stupid and the PM ineffective and weak. And damaged the country like the Yellows did (and didn't get punished)

Now if I remember correctly the DP and the PM got in when the last red PM stepped down after a court rulling chucked them out of Parliament. Am I missing something - or is that what is about to happen to the DP now they have got caught with money they can't explain - So how come the PM is convinced he is still going to be here in November - to monitor HIS plan and IF everyone sticks to it.

[gl9999]

not really...because as other posters have written, it moves the election date past the reshuffling of the military hierarchy, allowing Anupong's successor to come in, and it ensures that Thaksin's chance for regaining power becomes more limited, even should the Reds win the election...Abhisit may not last, but he also ensures that the Reds are left without their figurehead.

So really, what that means is that if Thaksin's party wins, the army will stage another coup and prevent them from taking office. What's the purpose of an election then? That's no Democracy, that's Dictatorship, I'm sorry.

If that's what you think then why bother protesting against the present government then? You Red Shirts should rally against the military since everyone in Thailand knows that they're military plays by their own rules and they answer to no one, whether yellow or red.

[gl9999]

Sorry if this is irrelevant because it's been discussed already - but it was so boring - the members fighting and bickering - that I jumped to the end. This is not a compromise because the PM decides if everyone has played by his rules and plain and simple he's not trusted. So many of you think the Reds have blown it - they haven't their supporters still support them. They have never been "popular" in Bangkok which is what this is all about. They have made this Government look stupid and the PM ineffective and weak. And damaged the country like the Yellows did (and didn't get punished)

Now if I remember correctly the DP and the PM got in when the last red PM stepped down after a court rulling chucked them out of Parliament. Am I missing something - or is that what is about to happen to the DP now they have got caught with money they can't explain - So how come the PM is convinced he is still going to be here in November - to monitor HIS plan and IF everyone sticks to it.

You're assuming of course the court actually disbands the party. So should we all wait for the court ruling then and leave the Red Shirts to rot there while our economy tumbles? Or do we fix the problem now? Yhe election date is a compromise and a win win for everyone, Red or Yellow. Right now, if the red shirt leaders are stupid or selfish enough to reject this offer, Abhisit can roll the tanks in and he can say he was willing to compromise but the red shirts just wanted to continue the fight.

[HerbalEd]

over twice more than 3 months, as proposed by the protesters, but a little shorter, than abhisit declaration of 9 months.

his proposals serve at the same time, as his election manifesto - trying to catch up, what was neglected for the last 4 years

Remember, he already offered to end his term a year early ... and the red shirts responded to moving their deadline to dissolve parliament from immediate to 30 days.

[HerbalEd]

over twice more than 3 months, as proposed by the protesters, but a little shorter, than abhisit declaration of 9 months.

his proposals serve at the same time, as his election manifesto - trying to catch up, what was neglected for the last 4 years

Remember, he already offered to end his term a year early ... and the red shirts responded to moving their deadline to dissolve parliament from immediate to 30 days.

[bkkbrad]

This sounds very nice and finally unlock the situation. Also it makes really govt look like the good guys willing to compromise while the other side... Reds would be crazy to refuse after the bad days they had. However, with terrorists charges threatening and no mention of amnesty in his 5 points program, they might ask to have amnesty added as a number 6 prior to give in.

Where's the compromise?

This sounds just government BS "we're here to help you"

Abhisit is going to have to get real and act like a real leader!

Jeez...seems there's no pleasing some people!!

[Jingthing]

Sorry if this is irrelevant because it's been discussed already - but it was so boring - the members fighting and bickering - that I jumped to the end. This is not a compromise because the PM decides if everyone has played by his rules and plain and simple he's not trusted. So many of you think the Reds have blown it - they haven't their supporters still support them. They have never been "popular" in Bangkok which is what this is all about. They have made this Government look stupid and the PM ineffective and weak. And damaged the country like the Yellows did (and didn't get punished)

Now if I remember correctly the DP and the PM got in when the last red PM stepped down after a court rulling chucked them out of Parliament. Am I missing something - or is that what is about to happen to the DP now they have got caught with money they can't explain - So how come the PM is convinced he is still going to be here in November - to monitor HIS plan and IF everyone sticks to it.

You've got it wrong. The review of the EC decision which may or may not be upheld will not be finished before November. Your other points, sorry, you sound like a red supporter mouthing the same tired old anti-government line.

[Rinrada]

Still recon August would be "nicer"....... ..........summer hols time..init

[deadsnoopy]

You're assuming of course the court actually disbands the party. So should we all wait for the court ruling then and leave the Red Shirts to rot there while our economy tumbles? Or do we fix the problem now? Yhe election date is a compromise and a win win for everyone, Red or Yellow. Right now, if the red shirt leaders are stupid or selfish enough to reject this offer, Abhisit can roll the tanks in and he can say he was willing to compromise but the red shirts just wanted to continue the fight.

First of all, if they're not dissolved, it's clearly an act of double standard. Just like the yellow shirts that are awaiting trial since 2 years and are roaming free urging the government to crack down on the red shirts. But let's not go there.

Abhisit can "roll out the tanks" but that will not solve anything, unless the army plans to basically kill everyone, which they're not going to do. The red shirts can be dispersed but they will simply regroup elsewhere and come back. Negotiating is the only way to solve this.