Tough Action Against Red Shirts Still Uncertain

[webfact]

SIDELINES

Tough action against red shirts still uncertain

By Sopon Onkgara

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- After a month of red-shirt protests at Rajprasong intersection, emptying all hotel rooms and forcing shopping centres in affected areas to shut down, the government feels compelled to take some serious action following a barrage of public complaints over its indecisiveness and vacillation.

What it proposed yesterday is to send in some armoured vehicles to support troops and police in clearing out the protesters against the risk of armed resistance by a large number of hardcore supporters of the red shirts.

After the brutality on Rajdamnoen Avenue by black-clad shooters who killed soldiers, and with over 20 dead and more than 800 injured, the government is very concerned that the mop-up operation this time might cause an even higher death toll.

That's why the government's emergency centre has been reluctant to move in because the red shirt ringleaders are using people as shields against a crackdown. Thousands of innocent people lured from upcountry have been confined to the area and watched closely by vicious guards who are ready to exercise physical violence to deter any departure by these victims of coercion.

The government is aware that the red shirts and their combatants have stockpiled war weapons, ranging from assault rifles, rocket launchers and an assortment of small arms, to other improvised but still lethal arms.

The blockades of tyres, bamboo sticks and barbed wire covered by mesh look formidable as obstacles and are ugly scenes to those who view the areas with horror. It is an open challenge to government authority, law and order.

The last straw was the violence at Chulalongkorn Hospital, after red shirts made threats against hospital administrators, doctors and nurses, leading to the evacuation of patients to other hospitals for safety. This barbarous act has led to wide condemnation from all sections of society.

The red shirts remain insolent and refuse to dismantle the street blockades. The government, for the first time, realises that the red shirts are indeed committing acts of treason with an unknown number of armed guerrillas to fight against any attempt to flush them out.

Are there any justifiable measures to reduce the potential and capability of the red-shirt resistance by wearing them down until a crackdown? Surely there are, now that the red shirts are no longer campaigners for democracy, as seen by their intent to topple the government and eliminate revered institutions including the monarchy.

To minimise their capability, the government can neutralise all cell phone signals around the area to block communications between the ringleaders and their supporters. Business offices and residences around the area have already been vacated in this prolonged crisis.

A crucial measure is for the government to exercise its emergency powers and for the Anti-Money Laundering Office to freeze or confiscate the assets and cash deposits of the ringleaders, who now also have arrest warrants. Their high crimes fall into the category of treason and terrorism. Whether or not the government has the guts to enforce this law remains doubtful.

From now until the action, the government should impose a curfew around Rajprasong intersection, preventing anyone from mobilising more protesters from other areas and upcountry. Those entering the area must be stopped and prosecuted with severe penalties.

What the government has proposed so far is to send short messages to those at the rally site, warning them that their presence is against the law and that they face the risk of suppression by government forces. Other measures such as public announcements and distribution of leaflets have failed to discourage newcomers to the protest areas.

There has been a suggestion that before moving in, the government should spray the areas with salt water to cause discomfort to the protesters, while using arms against resisting guerrillas. Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, for the first time, has not ruled out the option that the ringleaders could be captured alive or dead.

Nobody knows how many armed guerrillas are among the people there. It has been estimated that there are several hundred if not thousands. In a full-scale battle, casualties could be high. There is no other option, now that the ringleaders have vowed to fight to the death. Let's just hope that the long-awaited clean-up operation results in minimum loss of human life and damage to property.

-- The Nation 2010-05-04

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[SomTumTiger]

Is this really a "thread worthy" post, with all the other Red threads running?

[minburi2]

Is this really a "thread worthy" post, with all the other Red threads running?

Yes it is, but lets hope they catch the leaders alive, so we can sew them, their families, and their real leader for all the damadge they did to us, and me in person

[siampolee]

"At the rally site, red-shirt leaders are always hiding behind us. Common people like my husband and I always had to stand in the front line," Booncha lamented.

That succinctly describes the whole Red Shirt Brigade leadership (?) scenario completely.

Brothers 1-4 lead from the back as did Pol Pot, the ordinary folk are but insignificant pawns in the game to be sacrificed upon the altar of Thaksins and his puppet's lust for revenge and power at any price as long as they don't have to pay the bill.

There is no genuine concern for the ordinary people

[Humungus]

Make reds stand trial for their crimes, don't forget the victims, don't dishonor their memory.

[difos57]

"A crucial measure is for the government to exercise its emergency powers and for the Anti-Money Laundering Office to freeze or confiscate the assets and cash deposits of the ringleaders, who now also have arrest warrants."

They will have to watch the credit cards. With one credit card, it doesn't amount to much but when they use 50 or 100, that would easily allow them to move the money. It's the businesses that post these cards usually post 50 or more at a time using several banks.

[nomunynohuny]

There's talk of amnesty for the reds - let's hope the Government stands firm and does not grant amnesty for those who committed criminal acts and those who incited others to do so. The core leaders should not be granted amnesty whatsoever, but I bet that is the first item on their agenda as they mull Abhisit's proposal.

[siampolee]

The core leaders must be tried for their complicity in inciting civil unrest and the resultant deaths.

If my thinking and understanding of the Thai legal code is right they (the Red Shirt Brigade leaders) could be charged with treason which has the ultimate sentence.

My prediction is that brothers 1-4: will cut and run, they don't have the moral fibre to face up to their crimes

Edited May 4, 2010 by siampolee

[chantorn]

There's talk of amnesty for the reds - let's hope the Government stands firm and does not grant amnesty for those who committed criminal acts and those who incited others to do so. The core leaders should not be granted amnesty whatsoever, but I bet that is the first item on their agenda as they mull Abhisit's proposal.

Just a quick question.

Was there an amnesty after the coup the torn the "People's Constitution"?

[whybother]

There's talk of amnesty for the reds - let's hope the Government stands firm and does not grant amnesty for those who committed criminal acts and those who incited others to do so. The core leaders should not be granted amnesty whatsoever, but I bet that is the first item on their agenda as they mull Abhisit's proposal.

Just a quick question.

Was there an amnesty after the coup the torn the "People's Constitution"?

There was amnesty for the coup holders in the "People's Constitution". That's what happens when you control things.

Which is exactly the reason the reds want to be in power ... so they can manage a few amnesties of their own.

[siampolee]

Chantorn.

If you were here at the time of the last military coup you should be able to recall the facts.

Not one member of the ousted administration was put on trial, some were gaoled for a couple of days so that talks could be held, all walked free, no gaol no deaths.

Edited May 4, 2010 by siampolee

[animatic]

The core leaders must be tried for their complicity in inciting civil unrest and the resultant deaths.

If my thinking and understanding of the Thai legal code is right they (the Red Shirt Brigade leaders) could be charged with treason which has the ultimate sentence.

My prediction is that brothers 1-4: will cut and run, they don't have the moral fibre to face up to their crimes

Well I believe Veera did do time 20 years or so back for similar, but less severe crimes.

Jatupron may still imagine he can hide behind his 'Parliamentary Immunity',

maybe even stupid enough to think;

'I did it while I was under Parliamentary Immunity,

so even when I am not a parliamentarian,

you still can't prosecute me.'

Nuttawat is rather exposed, Dr. Weng...

back to the hinterlands of jungleland with your Maoist cell,

or try and gain converts in the Bangkok Hilton....

[minburi2]

There's talk of amnesty for the reds - let's hope the Government stands firm and does not grant amnesty for those who committed criminal acts and those who incited others to do so. The core leaders should not be granted amnesty whatsoever, but I bet that is the first item on their agenda as they mull Abhisit's proposal.

Just a quick question.

Was there an amnesty after the coup the torn the "People's Constitution"?

By the time of the "yellow" revolution, the reds are starting to hurl bombs as well.

the yellow site didn't resort to violence, so they get out on bail, but still must face justice.

This time there was a lot of violence and destrucktion, calling for violence from the leaders, etc.

The Yellows have done all but flee the country, the reds have and need to keep up their reputation by running and going in selfimpossed exile.

[chantorn]

There's talk of amnesty for the reds - let's hope the Government stands firm and does not grant amnesty for those who committed criminal acts and those who incited others to do so. The core leaders should not be granted amnesty whatsoever, but I bet that is the first item on their agenda as they mull Abhisit's proposal.

Just a quick question.

Was there an amnesty after the coup the torn the "People's Constitution"?

By the time of the "yellow" revolution, the reds are starting to hurl bombs as well.

the yellow site didn't resort to violence, so they get out on bail, but still must face justice.

This time there was a lot of violence and destrucktion, calling for violence from the leaders, etc.

The Yellows have done all but flee the country, the reds have and need to keep up their reputation by running and going in selfimpossed exile.

I see. The clips below are from the men in black (i.e. fake yellow). IMHO, the same men in black in 10-Apr-2010 shooting.

[difos57]

Chantorn.

If you were here at the time of the last military coup you should be able to recall the facts.

Not one member of the ousted administration was put on trial, some were gaoled for a couple of days so that talks could be held, all walked free, no gaol no deaths.

I thought the same of the yellows when they took over the airport. I listened to the reds lies but when you seen they airport after the coup was over, it was open for immediate use and looked better than ever, countarary to the lies the reds have spread about untold damages. They PAD caretakered the airport to prevent damages from the reds.

This is not the same, deaths, shooting and killing of soldiers and their own mob, invasion of the hospitals, kidnapping, roadblocks and terrorizing Thailand and lets not forget the threats of not living public buildings standing, hospitals airports ect. What were they going to do start bombing them? They already did. They said it wasn't them. It was just coincidental that they set rockets off at the same time they set the bombs off. The Reds are terrorists!

[animatic]

There's talk of amnesty for the reds - let's hope the Government stands firm and does not grant amnesty for those who committed criminal acts and those who incited others to do so. The core leaders should not be granted amnesty whatsoever, but I bet that is the first item on their agenda as they mull Abhisit's proposal.

Just a quick question.

Was there an amnesty after the coup the torn the "People's Constitution"?

There was amnesty for the coup holders in the "People's Constitution". That's what happens when you control things.

Which is exactly the reason the reds want to be in power ... so they can manage a few amnesties of their own.

Yes exactly they use their power for their own ends, as seen with PPP when they had power,

and not for the good of the common people. For all their rhetoric they are just power hungry insurrectionists,

They will grab power and not intend to 'promulgate a new constitution and return power back to the people in a year.'

Remember, many PTP, PPP and TRT MP's are actively in the Reds and the intertwining roots of PTP go far and deep

inside the Red Street Action Branch, they are only separated by semantics. This is not a grass roots peoples movement,

but a party voted out of controlling the cabinet, and using extra judicial means to grab power back.

This date is after the Army list and Budget are finish. The Parliament need not be dissolved till just before the election,

since the date is set, they can do it when they are finished their work. Thaksin and the Reds lose the cash and power control

that they REALLY want too late to make it a barganing chip with their puyaimpartners up country. They can only make

extra budgetary promises and those for 2011 and nothing substantive before the election.

[kissdani]

Sopon Onkgara

[whybother]

There's talk of amnesty for the reds - let's hope the Government stands firm and does not grant amnesty for those who committed criminal acts and those who incited others to do so. The core leaders should not be granted amnesty whatsoever, but I bet that is the first item on their agenda as they mull Abhisit's proposal.

Just a quick question.

Was there an amnesty after the coup the torn the "People's Constitution"?

By the time of the "yellow" revolution, the reds are starting to hurl bombs as well.

the yellow site didn't resort to violence, so they get out on bail, but still must face justice.

This time there was a lot of violence and destrucktion, calling for violence from the leaders, etc.

The Yellows have done all but flee the country, the reds have and need to keep up their reputation by running and going in selfimpossed exile.

I see. The clips below are from the men in black (i.e. fake yellow). IMHO, the same men in black in 10-Apr-2010 shooting.

So, from (how many?) months of protesting by the PAD, you are only able to produce ONE incident of violence.

And that without any comment of what happened before the shooting started.

[minburi2]

There's talk of amnesty for the reds - let's hope the Government stands firm and does not grant amnesty for those who committed criminal acts and those who incited others to do so. The core leaders should not be granted amnesty whatsoever, but I bet that is the first item on their agenda as they mull Abhisit's proposal.

Just a quick question.

Was there an amnesty after the coup the torn the "People's Constitution"?

By the time of the "yellow" revolution, the reds are starting to hurl bombs as well.

the yellow site didn't resort to violence, so they get out on bail, but still must face justice.

This time there was a lot of violence and destrucktion, calling for violence from the leaders, etc.

The Yellows have done all but flee the country, the reds have and need to keep up their reputation by running and going in selfimpossed exile.

I see. The clips below are from the men in black (i.e. fake yellow). IMHO, the same men in black in 10-Apr-2010 shooting.

But they came under attack on their way to the old airport by motocycle and taxi drivers and fought back.

anyone under attack should defend themselfs by all means

[animatic]

Chantorn.

If you were here at the time of the last military coup you should be able to recall the facts.

Not one member of the ousted administration was put on trial, some were gaoled for a couple of days so that talks could be held, all walked free, no gaol no deaths.

I thought the same of the yellows when they took over the airport. I listened to the reds lies but when you seen they airport after the coup was over, it was open for immediate use and looked better than ever, countarary to the lies the reds have spread about untold damages. They PAD caretakered the airport to prevent damages from the reds.

This is not the same, deaths, shooting and killing of soldiers and their own mob, invasion of the hospitals, kidnapping, roadblocks and terrorizing Thailand and lets not forget the threats of not living public buildings standing, hospitals airports ect. What were they going to do start bombing them? They already did. They said it wasn't them. It was just coincidental that they set rockets off at the same time they set the bombs off. The Reds are terrorists!

The Reds have long since surpassed the damage caused by PAD at the airport, and also added much higher levels of violence.

They also did their own airport siege last week. They can no longer hide behind the PAD did it double standard argument.

And remember the PAD airport siege was brought on by the obviously Red Attacks on their encampment at Government House,

that caused many deaths.

Also the army didn't move on PAD at G. House for the EXACT same reasons they have been reluctant to close down Raj.

Minimizing deaths and injuries of misguided Thai citizens.

The Red Culture Of Violence has also far surpassed any excesses of the PAD Guards, during their much longer stays on the streets.

And lets also remember the utter inaction of Somchai during the Gov House rally. He spent more time moaning about not

having the trappings and big office, than just doing things where he was.

Abhisit still makes decisions on many issues of the day where ever he finds a desk

and communications access, a big difference in basic functionality.

So we see the carrot and the big stick circling it's cudgel end ominously, but also we see the mass of the people

all ready encouraging the 'either or scenario': time to go boys, or we let them use the stick, either way you're on overstay.

Abhisit has always spoken softly, but always had Anupong standing beside to act if warranted.

Edited May 4, 2010 by animatic

[Redsunset]

Is this really a "thread worthy" post, with all the other Red threads running?

Yes it is, but lets hope they catch the leaders alive, so we can sew them, their families, and their real leader for all the damadge they did to us, and me in person

Dude.... "sew" them? I didn't realize knitting was a proper punishment?! lols.... but seriously, there might be a way of confiscating their assets whether they are dead or alive. But I do not know enough about it to comment.

[Redsunset]

Hmm.... there could be a few black shirt terrorists holed up in Lumpini Park. You know, like those Japanese soldiers hiding out in the jungles of Iwo Jima not knowing that the war has been over for three decades..... then they finally come out, it is 30 years later, the war has been over for two and a half decades and they go: "What the f&ck is going on?!"

[Herm]

Right now, the red leaders are all in "a spot of bother". They can not really rejects the governments offer, but if they do accept, they'll have to give themselves up and this will mean prosecution. On the other hand, they are surely being pressured by Thaksin not to accept since this would not fit his agenda and would mean no chance of return to power in Thailand.

Scenario 1

They negotiate a deal for themselves to be charged on lesser charges and will get suspended sentences - Thaksin is screwed - the black shirts and lesser criminals than the leaders will escape up country and become monks until the heat has blow over (common thing to do for murderers and other wanted criminals in Thailand)

The General will establish some maoist resistance group in the jungles of northern Thailand and play war until eventually caught.

Scenario 2

Pressure from Thaksin and fear of going to jail and may be threats from the General will make them reject the offer - the army moves in and ends the whole thing

Whichever way, the government will be blameless and even though I did complain about Abhisit not doing something quick enough, I must now admit that he is an even better statesman than I already thought. The reds really have no way out with a firm election date set by the Government for Nov. 14th - if they do not accept this offer they are clearly working to a different agenda than what they claim (we all know that anyway - well may be the red supporters do not) and they are willing to sacrifice the lives of their human shields.

I hope scenario 1 is going to happen, but am pretty sure the red leaders will come with demands which will be not acceptable to the government like a total amnesty or other points, Thaksin will have given them ....

Going to be interesting to see

Edited May 4, 2010 by Herm

[Redsunset]

Looks like the reds will accept the peace proposal WITH A FEW CONDITIONS, like amnesty for all.... but the government will reject that, and the hits will just keep on comin'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Redsunset]

"The General will establish some maoist resistance group in the jungles of northern Thailand and play war until eventually caught." HERM

Herm, exquisitely put! The General has lost a bit of face and some "jungle duty" will serve him well! I also like your term: "play war" which is exactly the kind of thing a man like him will do....

[Herm]

I forgot ... Chavalit will have to re-position his flag again .. poor chap

[tonywebster]

"At the rally site, red-shirt leaders are always hiding behind us. Common people like my husband and I always had to stand in the front line," Booncha lamented.

That succinctly describes the whole Red Shirt Brigade leadership (?) scenario completely.

Brothers 1-4 lead from the back as did Pol Pot, the ordinary folk are but insignificant pawns in the game to be sacrificed upon the altar of Thaksins and his puppet's lust for revenge and power at any price as long as they don't have to pay the bill.

There is no genuine concern for the ordinary people

this reminds me of a joke from my police days.

A young constable is facing his first riot situation, he is facing the petrol bombs and rocks being thrown at him and his colleagues, eventually his bottle goes and runs off from the barrage. As he is sitting down trying to compose himself, close to tears, another policeman approaches him and says "get yourself together son, your colleagues need you". The young constable replies "sorry sarge, my bottle went", the other copper says "sarge? I am a chief superintendent", the young PC replies "oh sorry, I never realised I had run that far".

[minburi2]

Right now, the red leaders are all in "a spot of bother". They can not really rejects the governments offer, but if they do accept, they'll have to give themselves up and this will mean prosecution. On the other hand, they are surely being pressured by Thaksin not to accept since this would not fit his agenda and would mean no chance of return to power in Thailand.

Scenario 1

They negotiate a deal for themselves to be charged on lesser charges and will get suspended sentences - Thaksin is screwed - the black shirts and lesser criminals than the leaders will escape up country and become monks until the heat has blow over (common thing to do for murderers and other wanted criminals in Thailand)

The General will establish some maoist resistance group in the jungles of northern Thailand and play war until eventually caught.

Scenario 2

Pressure from Thaksin and fear of going to jail and may be threats from the General will make them reject the offer - the army moves in and ends the whole thing

Whichever way, the government will be blameless and even though I did complain about Abhisit not doing something quick enough, I must now admit that he is an even better statesman than I already thought. The reds really have no way out with a firm election date set by the Government for Nov. 14th - if they do not accept this offer they are clearly working to a different agenda than what they claim (we all know that anyway - well may be the red supporters do not) and they are willing to sacrifice the lives of their human shields.

I hope scenario 1 is going to happen, but am pretty sure the red leaders will come with demands which will be not acceptable to the government like a total amnesty or other points, Thaksin will have given them ....

Going to be interesting to see

Best reply on this topic so far and probably no one can come with a better one, THNX HERM

[Herm]

"At the rally site, red-shirt leaders are always hiding behind us. Common people like my husband and I always had to stand in the front line," Booncha lamented.

That succinctly describes the whole Red Shirt Brigade leadership (?) scenario completely.

Brothers 1-4 lead from the back as did Pol Pot, the ordinary folk are but insignificant pawns in the game to be sacrificed upon the altar of Thaksins and his puppet's lust for revenge and power at any price as long as they don't have to pay the bill.

There is no genuine concern for the ordinary people

this reminds me of a joke from my police days.

A young constable is facing his first riot situation, he is facing the petrol bombs and rocks being thrown at him and his colleagues, eventually his bottle goes and runs off from the barrage. As he is sitting down trying to compose himself, close to tears, another policeman approaches him and says "get yourself together son, your colleagues need you". The young constable replies "sorry sarge, my bottle went", the other copper says "sarge? I am a chief superintendent", the young PC replies "oh sorry, I never realised I had run that far".

Good one!!!!!

[animatic]

Is this really a "thread worthy" post, with all the other Red threads running?

Yes it is, but lets hope they catch the leaders alive, so we can sew them, their families, and their real leader for all the damadge they did to us, and me in person

Dude.... "sew" them? I didn't realize knitting was a proper punishment?! lols.... but seriously, there might be a way of confiscating their assets whether they are dead or alive. But I do not know enough about it to comment.

Ok how about:

Sew them up properly, sequester their blood money bank accounts quickly and sue them for damages.