Nightmare At Samui Immigration

[phetaroi]

Phetaroi: You are not reading the thread carefully.

Other TV members have come on this thread to say that Samui immigration arbitrarily asks some ex-pats for bribes to process routine extensions.

This is highly irregular, as we have not seen any report of this at any other IO in the country (to my knowledge).

I seriously doubt it was anything the OP said or did. He has repeatedly said he was polite and respectful.

The lawyer wasn't brought in until OP had been denied a routine extension. Again, this is out-of-line behavior for Thai immigration.

It could be that, being an island outpost and not situated in a provincial capital, the Samui IO staff feel safely enough removed from their supervisors to practice this extortion.

We need to know more about the circumstances of who they ask bribes from and on what (false) pretexts.

Then we need to see what action can be taken to stop this practice before it spreads to other IOs.

Excuse me, but I said it was my opinion and that two other factors -- including the one you point out -- may also be the reason for the problem. I don't disagree with you that the rule of law should be the way they operate.

I might add that this is another example of how expats can't have it both ways. There are those who want Thailand to be a rule abiding entity. And there are many in this forum who want the no-hard-and-fast-rules approach. For those who want the latter, this is what they get.

Edited May 12, 2010 by phetaroi

[moe666]

Upon arrival my girlfriend announced I have friend immigration Hua Hin will fix any problem 20,000baht. I didn't use her services no need.

[parallaxtech]

You file the 90 day report 90 days after you are in the country.

Untill you ask for an extension of stay you will not need to do 90 day reports. The first extension of stay is considered your first 90 day report and you will have to report every 90 days. If you leave the country, the 90 day reporting clock is reset to day 1.

Mario, once again, thanks.

[parallaxtech]

My first ever Post on Thai Visa 23.10.06

Hello. Can some one please confirm the annual fee for renewing the Non Imm o Visa based on marriage to a Thai wife.

I ask because myself and others in Samui are paying 5,000 Baht. Friends I talk to in other areas of the country seem to be paying 1,900. I have searched web sites and everything seems to suggest a fee of 1,900.

Many people I know here who have lived on KS for a long time simply leave every three mos as they don't want to face the people in Nathon Immigration. They won' t pay a bribe and resent being asked for one. It sounds like things with the new group are even worse. I hope everyone will keep writing in on how much they are paying for extensions. When I sat there for six hours the other day it was amazing to see how many visa fixers walked in with stacks of passports. I called several of them and the going rate was 25-30K. So you might figure that the government stamper is getting at least 10k per passport. That tells me two things: They are not going to be very happy getting 1,900 when they can get 10K and people are paying anything to avoid those scoundrels in Nathon.

Edited May 12, 2010 by parallaxtech

[PoorSucker]

Six hours???

I play the game and make it in five minutes for the extension.

90 day reporting in 2 min.

I pay 3900 baht extra.

I'm working!!!!

I know many that play hard ball with the Samui immigrations,

Extension of stay = 4 hours

90 day reporting = 4 hours * 4.

20 hours / 3100 (bribe money)= 155 baht/hour.

YES, I make over 155 baht / hour.

I don't have time for the BS.

OK, the retirered folks can start a campaign.

Edited May 12, 2010 by PoorSucker

[samuijimmy]

Just pay the 5000 bht they want for the extension.

End of problem.

This thread makes me believe it's not worth the hassle to ask for a receipt.

My extensions take 5 min.

90 day reporting 2 min.

Well, so far at least, I like Poor Sucker I have never had a problem with Samui Immigration ...(with my Retirement Visa....) Quick ... Easy.... always friendly service... never had a problem (yet.... touch wood)

But it seems to me I was given a choice last year of paying 5000 baht if I wanted multiply re-entry permit or 1900 baht if I was not leaving the country.. during the year... & I was clearly told that ( by the curly haired girl, there) ... if I did want to head out the country that I would have to go get a permit... fair enough. I went for the 1900 baht choice...

So there are parts of this thread I just don't get.... suppose I'll will find out at the end of June when the yearly renewal comes up...???

[Maestro]

A few years ago I had a SCB Fund Book...

Did you get your Funds Book for your purchase of “Unit Trusts” of Fixed Income Funds mentioned on this web page of SCB?

--

Maestro

[Maestro]

...I don't believe there is anything in a book or document about it -- simply 800,00K in cash in a bank account...

There are no details about the Fund Book on SCB’s website but if, as it appears, you bought certificates of a mutual fund then it was not “cash in the bank”

...I am on my way to see the SCB manager to make sure he alerts all clients to move out of these accounts if they are looking at them for immigration purposes...

I doubt that many foreigners, if any, who need proof of money in a Thai bank account use -- or plan to use -- the Fund Book for their applications for extension.

Now back to your original problem. For several years your local immigration office accepted the balance shown in your Fund Book as proof of money in the bank, but not this year. Whether they found out themselves that they erred in the past or whether their superiors told them, they are within their rights to refuse it now and in the future. Your lawyer should have told you this.

--

Maestro

[Maestro]

I found this about the Fund Book in SBC’s annual report for the year 2005:

2005 Performance Highlights

...

Launched Fund Book for unit holders of

SCB Savings Fixed Income (SCBSFF),

Long Term Equity Fund (LTF) and

Retirement Mutual Fund (RMF).

...

Source: www.scb.co.th/img/en/abt/doc/annualreport/backward/AnnualReport2005-%20Eng.pdf (2.84 MB)

The names of the mutual funds seem to have changed since 2005, based on this current web page: www.scb.co.th/en/pnb/pnb_ivm_ivm_mutual.shtml

The Fund Book appears to be something distinctly different from the Fixed Deposit Account, aka Time Deposit Account, which SCB describes on scb.co.th/en/pnb/pnb_dps_tbd_fix.shtml

--

Maestro

[Lite Beer]

A few years ago I had a SCB Fund Book...

Did you get your Funds Book for your purchase of “Unit Trusts” of Fixed Income Funds mentioned on this web page of SCB?

--

Maestro

[happylarry]

Six hours???

I play the game and make it in five minutes for the extension.

90 day reporting in 2 min.

I pay 3900 baht extra.

I'm working!!!!

I know many that play hard ball with the Samui immigrations,

Extension of stay = 4 hours

90 day reporting = 4 hours * 4.

20 hours / 3100 (bribe money)= 155 baht/hour.

YES, I make over 155 baht / hour.

I don't have time for the BS.

OK, the retirered folks can start a campaign.

When I lived on Samui I also used to pay the extra and was pleased to do so under the circumstances.

I have retired from work and moved to Thailand to live a stress free life and when I used to go into immigration and see people who had been waiting for hours tearing their hair out or having to rush here or there for more documents or copies etc., it made me cringe. As PoorSucker said above it takes minutes each time, in fact they virtually fill the forms out for you, in fact the worst part of going to immigration each 90 days was the journey.

By his own admission the original poster has spent his whole life confronting bullies and hurting them more than they hurt him so he obviously revels in this kind of stressful life, but not for me.

Where I live now I just have to pay the basic charge with no problems so far...but...I still dont have that stressLESS feeling that I used to have at Samui.

HL

[Eclipse]

When I lived on Samui I also used to pay the extra and was pleased to do so under the circumstances.

I find this comment quite staggering. Almost beyond belief.

It is because of people like you that these crooks are allowed to get away with these practices.

Ecouraging coruption helps no one. It only makes things more difficult for others that are trying to stay within the rules.

Shamefull.

[lopburi3]

1. "Fund" book would not be accepted at most immigration offices but seems it was accepted here. Local office has the final say on retirement.

2. Here has a history of using an non receipt payment system and appears to have provided fast and easy service to those using it.

3. OP had used the "fund" method but seems to have avoided paying the normal non receipt price.

4. It appears he may have been classed as not playing the game fair because of this (lawyer on hand each visit was likely not appreciated) - but did not know his application would not normally be accepted at other offices so was offended at the sudden refusal.

At any rate hope all is well now and that his next visit will be successful.

[happylarry]

Six hours???

I play the game and make it in five minutes for the extension.

90 day reporting in 2 min.

I pay 3900 baht extra.

I'm working!!!!

I know many that play hard ball with the Samui immigrations,

Extension of stay = 4 hours

90 day reporting = 4 hours * 4.

20 hours / 3100 (bribe money)= 155 baht/hour.

YES, I make over 155 baht / hour.

I don't have time for the BS.

OK, the retirered folks can start a campaign.

When I lived on Samui I also used to pay the extra and was pleased to do so under the circumstances.

I have retired from work and moved to Thailand to live a stress free life and when I used to go into immigration and see people who had been waiting for hours tearing their hair out or having to rush here or there for more documents or copies etc., it made me cringe. As PoorSucker said above it takes minutes each time, in fact they virtually fill the forms out for you, in fact the worst part of going to immigration each 90 days was the journey.

By his own admission the original poster has spent his whole life confronting bullies and hurting them more than they hurt him so he obviously revels in this kind of stressful life, but not for me.

Where I live now I just have to pay the basic charge with no problems so far...but...I still dont have that stressLESS feeling that I used to have at Samui.

HL

Eclipse if you are going to quote me then quote the whole post so that it shows the context of what I am saying, not just a few words that you choose to abuse. (Shameful)

This is the way of life in Thailand, for everybody, if you think a few ex-pats are going to change their culture then you are sadly mistaken.

What nobody has mentioned so far is that to get their jobs in immigration their familys have most likely paid a huge bribe to the person in charge of hiring anyway.

When most students get their degrees from University's they dont just walk into a government position, if they dont know someone then they have to pay, and this goes across the board. So it is natural that if they can then they are going to extort as well, wrong it may be, but that is how this country works.

Whether it be the land office, the telephone office, anywhere you go things can be speeded up by exchanging money.

I defy anyone who lives here full time to say they have never paid "tea money", and that includes you.

Speeding fines, no crash helmets, pirate tv, prostitutes, buying a house, giving wife money to buy a house....its all the same, against the law, and if every ex-pat here said they would not participate it would make no difference except to your own life. Their life and their culture will go on as usual.

Thats as I see it anyway. As I said before I have come here for a peaceful life....live and let live.

HL

[TaoNow]

Happylarry: (Though you weren't asking me)

During a period over 40 years of living and working in Thailand, in the provinces and in Bangkok, I have never been required to pay a bribe to the Thai police for any service or in response to a threat by the police.

In almost all cases I have been treated respectfully by the Thai police and immigration officers in my interactions with them.

I may be one of the small minority of TV members who thinks that Thais are basically honest and do not approve of paying bribes -- especially to the police.

None of us ex-pats on this Forum should condone the paying of bribes to police officers, which is a violation of the law.

Regardless of whether OP deserved to have his extension application denied because of the Fund Book documentation, the other testimonies of graft at Samui immigration are evidence that this office is practicing extortion.

No other reports from TV members have described similar attempts to extract bribes from ex-pats seeking retirement extensions.

Therefore, paying bribes to Immo officers for retirement extensions is not common practice and should not be tolerated or allowed to spread.

[parallaxtech]

This is the way of life in Thailand, for everybody, if you think a few ex-pats are going to change their culture then you are sadly mistaken.

What nobody has mentioned so far is that to get their jobs in immigration their familys have most likely paid a huge bribe to the person in charge of hiring anyway.

When most students get their degrees from University's they dont just walk into a government position, if they dont know someone then they have to pay, and this goes across the board. So it is natural that if they can then they are going to extort as well, wrong it may be, but that is how this country works.

Whether it be the land office, the telephone office, anywhere you go things can be speeded up by exchanging money.

I defy anyone who lives here full time to say they have never paid "tea money", and that includes you.

Speeding fines, no crash helmets, pirate tv, prostitutes, buying a house, giving wife money to buy a house....its all the same, against the law, and if every ex-pat here said they would not participate it would make no difference except to your own life. Their life and their culture will go on as usual.

Thats as I see it anyway. As I said before I have come here for a peaceful life....live and let live.

HL

Most farangs who have lived here for a number of years understand this, but you still have a choice on whether you wish to participate in illegal activities. You are correct that no amount of farangs will change corruption in Thailand, but are you saying just to keep feeding the corruption or leave? One might not have a problem paying 5-30K for a 1900B extension, and even next year when it is 60K, but what is to stop them from turning around and arresting you and charging you 1MB to get out of your four-year prison term? Farangs are on a very slippery slope when they bribe government officials. A Thai in a rented fishing shack has nothing to worry about, but farangs with money are big juicy targets for them. I saw corrupt government officials all over the world during my career and they never stayed on a small scale; if they could get away with a small amount of corruption it just escalated until they were caught.

My small group of friends in KS will not pay corruption money to anybody and will leave if forced to. They have all lived here over ten years and have the money to live anywhere. Again, it's about choices and whether you are happy living under these conditions.

[parallaxtech]

Happylarry: (Though you weren't asking me)

During a period over 40 years of living and working in Thailand, in the provinces and in Bangkok, I have never been required to pay a bribe to the Thai police for any service or in response to a threat by the police.

In almost all cases I have been treated respectfully by the Thai police and immigration officers in my interactions with them.

I may be one of the small minority of TV members who thinks that Thais are basically honest and do not approve of paying bribes -- especially to the police.

None of us ex-pats on this Forum should condone the paying of bribes to police officers, which is a violation of the law.

Regardless of whether OP deserved to have his extension application denied because of the Fund Book documentation, the other testimonies of graft at Samui immigration are evidence that this office is practicing extortion.

No other reports from TV members have described similar attempts to extract bribes from ex-pats seeking retirement extensions.

Therefore, paying bribes to Immo officers for retirement extensions is not common practice and should not be tolerated or allowed to spread.

Tao: Glad to hear there are people like you out there. Let me update you, LB, Mario, and others who have followed my case. I met with the SCB manager, my lawyer, and a very influential farang business owner re: my situation. They all concurred with what I had suspected all along. The Fund account is a liquid cash saving account, no stocks, mutual funds, bonds, etc. The only condition Thai Immigration has is that your funds can be released say if there is a seizure of assets, which mine can just like any other bank account.

I asked SCB if he knew of others who had run into a problem with this account, and he was aware of around ten cases, but they simply paid a visa fixer to bribe the IO. He said to try again in three mos with my standard bank account and see if they accept it.

I then asked if I decided to pay a bribe what would stop them from arresting me later for either bribing a government official or saying it was an illegal stamp, and he said yes these are very dangerous times for farangs on KS.

I called 1111 suggested by Mario and explained my problem and they agreed there was no problem with any bank or fund account gaining interest as long as the cash could be withdrawn without any time frame like six months or a year, but 24 hrs was no problem, so my account is ok.

I asked my lawyer if I could request a hearing the next time they refuse my extension for say parting my hair on the wrong side and he said the police would simply ask for more money for the hearing and still refuse the extension, plus I would be on their radar in the future.

I will try in three mos to go in with a standard bank account and pay the 1900B. If refused, my friends tell me they have a non-imm B that can just be stamped at the border. LB and Mario, do you think I could get a non-imm B and just do visa runs in the future?

[My Friend Same]

The bottom line of this so called "nightmare" that the OP encountered in Samui had nothing to do with bribes or illegal activities. It was as Lopburi said, the OP had a Fund book, which would not be accepted at immigration offices around the country so it was denied. Then to rub salt in it, the OP carts in some "attorney" to tell the Samui immi people what the rules are. Case closed

[Mario2008]

if denied an extensionyou can always try to get a multiple non-immigrant visa abroad, which allows you to stay 90 days, after which you leave and can re-enter. You can get almost 15 months out of the visa.

In Asia it can be difficult to get a multiple non-immigant visa, in perth or Hull you will have no problem.

[happylarry]

parallaxtech Oh...it must be so wonderful to be whiter than white.

Like I said in my earlier post I defy anyone to say that they have never paid "tea money" to anyone in any walk of life here , especially in ten years.

And dont make out it was a select few who paid the 5000, it was a big percentage who took the easy way, just because others dont post here or dont want to admit to it for one reason or another.

Also dont exagerate the issue out of all proportion, who said anything about 30,000 and then you blow it up to 60,000 next year. How utterly ridiculous.

Taonow how can you say no-one else has mentioned it on here, do you not read the posts....check out PoorSuckers post which I quoted in mine.

HL

[Bobr]

Rent a cheap room in another district, and make that your official address. Then you will have to use the Immigration office that serves that address. Ridiculous, but it should work.

[JSixpack]

The bottom line of this so called "nightmare" that the OP encountered in Samui had nothing to do with bribes or illegal activities. It was as Lopburi said, the OP had a Fund book, which would not be accepted at immigration offices around the country so it was denied. Then to rub salt in it, the OP carts in some "attorney" to tell the Samui immi people what the rules are. Case closed

Right. The "nightmare" was in the OP's own misunderstanding of the situation. We might say that previously he enjoyed a "sweet dream." Awakening to reality just seemed like a nightmare--to HIM.

I once had one of these "fund" accounts and the bank manager told me explicitly that it wasn't acceptable at Immigration. I had never planned to try to use it there. They don't understand fund accounts and fund books. Not in their job descriptions.

Just another mountain out of a molehill story.

[pnustedt]

I defy anyone who lives here full time to say they have never paid "tea money", and that includes you.

I live here full time and have never paid "tea money". I also have used lawyers to ensure that any business/commercial transactions that I enter into are ethical and within the law. It is unacceptable that people are prepared to find an easy way out of their problems and flout the law by bribing officials.

[Maestro]

...The Fund account is a liquid cash saving account, no stocks, mutual funds, bonds, etc...

Why, I wonder, does Siam Commercial bank call it a fund account or Fund Book if no mutual funds are involved?

Why does SCB, on this web page, call it Fixed Income Funds and list it under the heading of Mutual Funds if no mutual funds are involved?

I remain puzzled.

--

Maestro

P.S. Found this definition of Fixed Income Fund on the Internet:

fixed income fund

Definition

A fund that invests solely in fixed income investments, such as bonds or certificates of deposit. These funds are dependable and limit the amount of risk an investor takes on, although it could mean a lesser return that would be possible in a more risky fund.

Source: www.investorwords.com/6814/fixed_income_fund.html

[parallaxtech]

Maestro: I think SCB has many different funding/investing accounts so guess they just classify them under one name. Most of us out there have or had mutual funds where you were given a prospectus and a fund name so you could track the progress. This account never waivers, but simply rises to whatever the interest rate is. I asked all these questions in 2005 as I didn't want to invest in the Thai stock market. At .75% it doesn't even make sense now to have it in there and I wouldn't have if I had known it would cause me a problem.

In three months when (if) they ask me for 5K for the 1900B extension, I would like to know how I should respond, as this new staff is quite different from the old one.

Possibilities:

I thought it was 1900B?

I need an invoice for my embassy?

Did the price suddenly go up?

May I have my paperwork and come back when I have 5K?

[lopburi3]

SCB has the same fixed deposit accounts every other bank has and they are not called "fund" accounts. The passbook is marked on the inside as to the number of months. And they are normally accepted by Immigration. But only those and passbook savings are normally allowed. Which is why the bank has admitted to you that they have "about 10" customers that pay to have them accepted.

[Lite Beer]

Maestro: I think SCB has many different funding/investing accounts so guess they just classify them under one name. Most of us out there have or had mutual funds where you were given a prospectus and a fund name so you could track the progress. This account never waivers, but simply rises to whatever the interest rate is. I asked all these questions in 2005 as I didn't want to invest in the Thai stock market. At .75% it doesn't even make sense now to have it in there and I wouldn't have if I had known it would cause me a problem.

In three months when (if) they ask me for 5K for the 1900B extension, I would like to know how I should respond, as this new staff is quite different from the old one.

Possibilities:

I thought it was 1900B?

I need an invoice for my embassy?

Did the price suddenly go up?

May I have my paperwork and come back when I have 5K?

The fee of 1,900 Baht is written on the application form. Show them that.

[parallaxtech]

The fee of 1,900 Baht is written on the application form. Show them that.

Thanks, LB, I will try that, but my guess is that it will piss them off or they might just say that was the old fee. I will try it, though, and let everyone know what happens.

[ColinChapman]

To all those of you proudly paying bribes to Thai government officials - are you aware you may be breaking the laws of your home countries? Many western countries now have laws against paying bribes in foreign countries.

[NALAK]

difference between Samui immigration and Pattaya. Pattaya has a price list board for all to see.

proof of residency in Samui 500 baht Pattaya 200 baht

marriage visa Samui 5000 baht Pattaya 1900

Samui not very helpfull, Pattaya have immigration staff who come to you and help fill out forms and give accurate advice.

Forms to fill out with comments about how staff performed in Pattaya immigration.

Number 1 thing Samui should do is put up price list like they used to have, and i am sure by law have to show.

i do not understand why the Emassey do not get this corruption stopped, all it would take is them to call immigration in BKK and sort it, there misssion statement seems to cover things like that.

Samui immigration on my list of reasons not to stay in Samui anymore

Edited May 14, 2010 by NALAK