"billion" Brand ADSL Router And ToT

[JetsetBkk]

"Billion" Brand ADSL Router and ToT

I've moved house and have to put up with ToT and their "8Mb/s" (ha! ha!) offering which consistently gives me about 0.3 to 0.5 Mb/s. This is using their ToT labelled Billion router model BiPAC 5210S RC.

I previously had TT&T's Maxnet Indy 6 Mb/s, and consistently got around 5 Mb/s, so being forced to change to this crap is quite painful.

Hopefully, I'll be getting 3BB's 8 Mb/s service in a few weeks.

I was wondering what other people thought about the Billion modem/router. The reason being that last night I dug out my old ZyXEL router - the one supplied by TT&T (and that they didn't ask for back ) - and programmed it with all the numbers from the Billion router, and it is giving much better speeds, i.e. about 1.0 - 1.5 Mb/s ( 3 or 4 times better). These "speeds" are measured using the Speakeasy speed test to San Francisco.

So general browsing is much better with the ZyXEL, but the really crazy thing is, when downloading well-seeded torrents, they are screaming down at over 700 kBytes/s on both the Billion and the ZyXEL.

Can anyone explain why torrent performance is so good - and similar - and yet normal web browsing is so lousy, and much worse on the Billion?

I'm using Google's DNS servers - 8.8.8.8 and 4.4.4.4 - on my XP SP3 laptop, and have programmed the Billion to use "User Discovered DNS Server" and programmed it to use 8.8.8.8 and 4.4.4.4.

Can't think of anything else to try to improve the browsing.

[Supernova]

I'm using Google's DNS servers - 8.8.8.8 and 4.4.4.4 - on my XP SP3 laptop, and have programmed the Billion to use "User Discovered DNS Server" and programmed it to use 8.8.8.8 and 4.4.4.4.

4.4.4.4 ????

You mean 8.8.4.4 (google secondary dns)

[esbkk]

try: 119.46.240.1

119.46.240.3

[welo]

really, try it!

Forget TOT! And watch out, those bastards usually give you a 1-year contract if you get any of their 'promotions' (which is basically any reasonably priced package AFAIK).

Edited May 7, 2010 by welo

[Zombienation]

I use CSLox info via TOT lines and the supplied me with a Billion modem/router.

My experience with it has been appalling as well.

CSLox info is definitely the worst ISP here. Constant line drops, poor speeds and a support which doesn't care. They've lost me as a customer forever. Avoid.

[humbug]

i have a billion router through true, and i am sure its half the problem on why the internet speeds are slow

the cslox info corporate package, yes expensive but was the the bees and knees a while back, i dont know if that changed or just their retail packages for individuals are bad as someone else mentioned

[JetsetBkk]

I'm using Google's DNS servers - 8.8.8.8 and 4.4.4.4 - on my XP SP3 laptop, and have programmed the Billion to use "User Discovered DNS Server" and programmed it to use 8.8.8.8 and 4.4.4.4.

4.4.4.4 ????

You mean 8.8.4.4 (google secondary dns)

Thanks. Changed it.

[JetsetBkk]

really, try it!

Forget TOT! And watch out, those bastards usually give you a 1-year contract if you get any of their 'promotions' (which is basically any reasonably priced package AFAIK).

I was assured by the landlord - the local Kasikorn bank manager - that he can change it. He has already accompanied me to the ToT office to complain about the service. I'll let him deal with any contract issues. (I'd love to be a fly on the wall if ToT start talking about contracts to him )

[webfact]

one nonsensical post deleted.

[Kongtiesto]

When testing your speed against a server in San Francisco or anywhere outside Thailand you are testing your INTERNATIONAL Bandwidth and not your DOMESTIC bandwidth. There things are in Thailand totally different as International cost is much more extensive from here. The big ISP's use tig normally for their international issues.

E.G. you buy a 10 mbit from 3BB. You get around 7 mbs domestic and around 0.212mbs international bandwidth.

Its a little bit the same when they make promotions like getting a 8mbs line for 8XX baht!!! Why no mentioning about upload speed and international bandwidth.

Be ware what you buy and just get what you need.!.

[mattcodes]

Your with TOT. You can spend X money and Y time trying to diagnose the problem, buy a vps proxy, email/call support, but its a pointless exercise. Your router isnt the problem in this case, change provider.

Side note: If your on poor attenuation switching from adsl2 to adsl protocol on router will have more chance of maintaining the connection, this worked for me with TT&T but aside from that the routing/latency/performance was good.

[garyh]

I bought a top of the range Billion 7402NX modem earlier this year to upgrade my old Netgear modem. That as a total disaster it was replaced 3 times because of drop outs, slow connection speed and one modem that just stopped working completely. I am still using the old Netgear modem now and am sorry I ever tried to get rid of this old faithful work horse.

[schmutzie]

When testing your speed against a server in San Francisco or anywhere outside Thailand you are testing your INTERNATIONAL Bandwidth and not your DOMESTIC bandwidth. There things are in Thailand totally different as International cost is much more extensive from here. The big ISP's use tig normally for their international issues.

E.G. you buy a 10 mbit from 3BB. You get around 7 mbs domestic and around 0.212mbs international bandwidth.

Its a little bit the same when they make promotions like getting a 8mbs line for 8XX baht!!! Why no mentioning about upload speed and international bandwidth.

Be ware what you buy and just get what you need.!.

When I spoke to the 3BB sales girls, they were recommending the premier package for international speeds.

It would have been 1200-1400 per month I think which I thought was excessive. In the end they were unable

to provide internet at my address at the time when I needed it, as they were oversubscribed.

[JetsetBkk]

When testing your speed against a server in San Francisco or anywhere outside Thailand you are testing your INTERNATIONAL Bandwidth and not your DOMESTIC bandwidth. There things are in Thailand totally different as International cost is much more extensive from here. The big ISP's use tig normally for their international issues.

E.G. you buy a 10 mbit from 3BB. You get around 7 mbs domestic and around 0.212mbs international bandwidth.

Its a little bit the same when they make promotions like getting a 8mbs line for 8XX baht!!! Why no mentioning about upload speed and international bandwidth.

Be ware what you buy and just get what you need.!.

Thanks, I'm fully aware of all of that. However, I was - and others still are - getting 5 Mb/s download from San Francisco on my Maxnet Indy 6 Mb/s service. If TT&T can do it, so can ToT if they pay for the international bandwidth.

I will keep complaining to ToT until they can match TT&T.

Just giving in and accepting the fraudulent rip-off from ToT and other ISPs is not my way of doing things - I am not Thai.

[JetsetBkk]

Your with TOT. You can spend X money and Y time trying to diagnose the problem, buy a vps proxy, email/call support, but its a pointless exercise. Your router isnt the problem in this case, change provider.

Side note: If your on poor attenuation switching from adsl2 to adsl protocol on router will have more chance of maintaining the connection, this worked for me with TT&T but aside from that the routing/latency/performance was good.

Figures from my ZyXEL router:

"Upstream Noise Margin":

noise margin upstream: 26 db

output power downstream: 21 db

attenuation upstream: 18 db

"Downstream Noise Margin":

noise margin downstream: 3 db

output power upstream: 15 db

attenuation downstream: 32 db

I presume that noise margin downstream is not too good.

[JetsetBkk]

When I spoke to the 3BB sales girls, they were recommending the premier package for international speeds.

It would have been 1200-1400 per month I think which I thought was excessive. In the end they were unable

to provide internet at my address at the time when I needed it, as they were oversubscribed.

If and when 3BB get around to wiring up my moo baan, I'll be happy (-ish) to pay 1400 for a guaranteed ( ) 5 Mb/s service.

My old TT&T Maxnet Indy was 1,000 baht and gave me 5 Mb/s most of the time.

My new ToT "Home 8Mb/s" is 1,500 baht and gives me 0.5 Mb/s typically.

(Both figures to San Francisco).

Current speed: 0.60 down, 0.76 up.

[Pib]

When I spoke to the 3BB sales girls, they were recommending the premier package for international speeds.

It would have been 1200-1400 per month I think which I thought was excessive. In the end they were unable

to provide internet at my address at the time when I needed it, as they were oversubscribed.

If and when 3BB get around to wiring up my moo baan, I'll be happy (-ish) to pay 1400 for a guaranteed ( ) 5 Mb/s service.

My old TT&T Maxnet Indy was 1,000 baht and gave me 5 Mb/s most of the time.

My new ToT "Home 8Mb/s" is 1,500 baht and gives me 0.5 Mb/s typically.

(Both figures to San Francisco).

Current speed: 0.60 down, 0.76 up.

Here in western Bangkok, I have the TOT 4Mb/512kb package (590 Baht/mo) with the provided Billion 5210S-RC modem. I also have a ZyXel P660R-T1 modem from my previous internet provider. Using the Billion modem my Speakeasy speed to San Francisco runs in the 0.5Mb to 1.0Mb range depending the time of day, with 0.6Mb/s appearing to be the most common speed I get. About the fastest speed I get to any international speedtest-type site is 2Mb/s.

A new/2nd phone line was installed with the TOT package and I was able to have the line run directly to the phone jack without any of the smaller house phone line wiring usually seen in the final 50 feet or so. My SNR and Attenuation measurements are approx 32db and 30 db, respectively, whether rain or shine. And I'm a little over 2 kilometers from the TOT central office/station where the DSLAM is. Your SNR and Attenuation readings on an identical line would be a little lower since SNR/Attn measurements are somewhat different for high sync speeds. I get the full DSLAM sync speed of 4.092Mb and the IP "in-Thailand" speed runs a steady 3.5Mb. Keep in mind the IP speed on the TOT package will be about 15% lower than the sync speed due to DSL overhead/control characters. On your 8.192Mb package your top IP speed will probably be around 7.2Mb (not to imply you would get that speed to servers in Thailand...depends on the capability of those servers).

Last night I hooked up the ZyXel modem mentioned above to see if there were any significant speed/SNR/Attenuation differences from the Billion modem. I didn't get anything of significance. No noticeable speed change, and the SNR and Attenuation readings were within one or two db of each other probably due to the measurement accuracy of each modem. I haven't had any disconnects on either modem. Summary: no significant changes.

Too bad TOT don't have a premier-type service where you could pay a few extra hundred baht (i.e., home/routine use type pricing) for better international speeds like some Thai ISPs offer. With the current TOT package I expect for most people any package above 4Mb (and maybe 2Mb) is probably wasted money for "international web sites/speed." And what is REALLY too bad is that the TOT international speeds are just not better/faster at no additional cost.

Edited May 8, 2010 by Pib

[schmutzie]

Well FWIW, I don't really rate those online speedtesters, but I tried the Speakeasy test for SF and got around 3.9mbits up and 04/0.6 down.

I'm on a True Premier 4mbit/1mbit subscription.

Edited May 9, 2010 by schmutzie

[JetsetBkk]

Here in western Bangkok, I have the TOT 4Mb/512kb package (590 Baht/mo) with the provided Billion 5210S-RC modem. I also have a ZyXel P660R-T1 modem from my previous internet provider. Using the Billion modem my Speakeasy speed to San Francisco runs in the 0.5Mb to 1.0Mb range depending the time of day, with 0.6Mb/s appearing to be the most common speed I get. About the fastest speed I get to any international speedtest-type site is 2Mb/s.

A new/2nd phone line was installed with the TOT package and I was able to have the line run directly to the phone jack without any of the smaller house phone line wiring usually seen in the final 50 feet or so. My SNR and Attenuation measurements are approx 32db and 30 db, respectively, whether rain or shine. And I'm a little over 2 kilometers from the TOT central office/station where the DSLAM is. Your SNR and Attenuation readings on an identical line would be a little lower since SNR/Attn measurements are somewhat different for high sync speeds. I get the full DSLAM sync speed of 4.092Mb and the IP "in-Thailand" speed runs a steady 3.5Mb. Keep in mind the IP speed on the TOT package will be about 15% lower than the sync speed due to DSL overhead/control characters. On your 8.192Mb package your top IP speed will probably be around 7.2Mb (not to imply you would get that speed to servers in Thailand...depends on the capability of those servers).

Last night I hooked up the ZyXel modem mentioned above to see if there were any significant speed/SNR/Attenuation differences from the Billion modem. I didn't get anything of significance. No noticeable speed change, and the SNR and Attenuation readings were within one or two db of each other probably due to the measurement accuracy of each modem. I haven't had any disconnects on either modem. Summary: no significant changes.

Too bad TOT don't have a premier-type service where you could pay a few extra hundred baht (i.e., home/routine use type pricing) for better international speeds like some Thai ISPs offer. With the current TOT package I expect for most people any package above 4Mb (and maybe 2Mb) is probably wasted money for "international web sites/speed." And what is REALLY too bad is that the TOT international speeds are just not better/faster at no additional cost.

Thanks for your detailed post.

I also have a ZyXEL 660R-T1 modem that a friend gave to me when he changed his ISP, so I will try to get it working too, and do some 3-way tests. It is odd that you saw no significant differences whereas I saw consistently better performence with the ZyXEL. Maybe my line is marginal and the ZyXEL copes better than the Billion, whereas your line has a good signal so the Billion performs satisfactorily.

My house has far too many telephone sockets - 5 or 6 as I recall - so maybe rewiring to just one or two sockets would help.

[garyh]

Here in western Bangkok, I have the TOT 4Mb/512kb package (590 Baht/mo) with the provided Billion 5210S-RC modem. I also have a ZyXel P660R-T1 modem from my previous internet provider. Using the Billion modem my Speakeasy speed to San Francisco runs in the 0.5Mb to 1.0Mb range depending the time of day, with 0.6Mb/s appearing to be the most common speed I get. About the fastest speed I get to any international speedtest-type site is 2Mb/s.

A new/2nd phone line was installed with the TOT package and I was able to have the line run directly to the phone jack without any of the smaller house phone line wiring usually seen in the final 50 feet or so. My SNR and Attenuation measurements are approx 32db and 30 db, respectively, whether rain or shine. And I'm a little over 2 kilometers from the TOT central office/station where the DSLAM is. Your SNR and Attenuation readings on an identical line would be a little lower since SNR/Attn measurements are somewhat different for high sync speeds. I get the full DSLAM sync speed of 4.092Mb and the IP "in-Thailand" speed runs a steady 3.5Mb. Keep in mind the IP speed on the TOT package will be about 15% lower than the sync speed due to DSL overhead/control characters. On your 8.192Mb package your top IP speed will probably be around 7.2Mb (not to imply you would get that speed to servers in Thailand...depends on the capability of those servers).

Last night I hooked up the ZyXel modem mentioned above to see if there were any significant speed/SNR/Attenuation differences from the Billion modem. I didn't get anything of significance. No noticeable speed change, and the SNR and Attenuation readings were within one or two db of each other probably due to the measurement accuracy of each modem. I haven't had any disconnects on either modem. Summary: no significant changes.

Too bad TOT don't have a premier-type service where you could pay a few extra hundred baht (i.e., home/routine use type pricing) for better international speeds like some Thai ISPs offer. With the current TOT package I expect for most people any package above 4Mb (and maybe 2Mb) is probably wasted money for "international web sites/speed." And what is REALLY too bad is that the TOT international speeds are just not better/faster at no additional cost.

Thanks for your detailed post.

I also have a ZyXEL 660R-T1 modem that a friend gave to me when he changed his ISP, so I will try to get it working too, and do some 3-way tests. It is odd that you saw no significant differences whereas I saw consistently better performence with the ZyXEL. Maybe my line is marginal and the ZyXEL copes better than the Billion, whereas your line has a good signal so the Billion performs satisfactorily.

My house has far too many telephone sockets - 5 or 6 as I recall - so maybe rewiring to just one or two sockets would help.

You need a splitter on each outlet or it will fail badly. Unplug everything but the router and test again.

[Pib]

Well FWIW, I don't really rate those online speedtesters, but I tried the Speakeasy test for SF and got around 3.9mbits up and 04/0.6 down.

I'm on a True Premier 4mbit/1mbit subscription.

Although X-amount of folks report problems with True, it seems the great majority of True customers get good results/speed. I expect True has better servers/equipment, maybe a lower contention/user ratio,their international gateway is probably better, and their workers are more motivated (i.e., less job security unless you do a good job). Maybe someday I can get True; but right now I live in an area of Bangkok where TOT pretty much has a captive audience. Heck, maybe someday (or in a parallel universe) TOT will have the best/fastest internet service (including international web sites), but I don't expect that to happen until they become a totally public company versus being a govt run organization. Governments aren't known to be on the cutting edge in providing customer services.

[JetsetBkk]

You need a splitter on each outlet or it will fail badly. Unplug everything but the router and test again.

Only two sockets have phones connected.

The one in the computer room has the splitter.

[garyh]

You need a splitter on each outlet or it will fail badly. Unplug everything but the router and test again.

Only two sockets have phones connected.

The one in the computer room has the splitter.

You need a splitter on every phone that is connected, pull out the phone with no splitter power down your modem and restart, test it then.

[schmutzie]

Well FWIW, I don't really rate those online speedtesters, but I tried the Speakeasy test for SF and got around 3.9mbits up and 04/0.6 down.

I'm on a True Premier 4mbit/1mbit subscription.

Although X-amount of folks report problems with True, it seems the great majority of True customers get good results/speed. I expect True has better servers/equipment, maybe a lower contention/user ratio,their international gateway is probably better, and their workers are more motivated (i.e., less job security unless you do a good job). Maybe someday I can get True; but right now I live in an area of Bangkok where TOT pretty much has a captive audience. Heck, maybe someday (or in a parallel universe) TOT will have the best/fastest internet service (including international web sites), but I don't expect that to happen until they become a totally public company versus being a govt run organization. Governments aren't known to be on the cutting edge in providing customer services.

Are you sure - I mean, I'm sure you are sure, but I ask because we had a problem getting any provider in our part of town.

We visited 2 True outlets and I called the main sales number (these are the best for getting a proper English translation of what's

going on).

In my case, the problem was not that 3BB and True didn't service the area, but that they had already filled the amount of subscribers they could serve.

So the need to install or activate other equipment meant we were told "maybe later".

However, out of the blue, True called one day and was ready to go. A big relief! Otherwise I was looking at a very pricy ToT or some wireless dongle <deleted>.

My point is, keep hitting them and maybe your address will get flagged enough that they make a move. Just a thought...

[JetsetBkk]

You need a splitter on each outlet or it will fail badly. Unplug everything but the router and test again.

Only two sockets have phones connected.

The one in the computer room has the splitter.

You need a splitter on every phone that is connected, pull out the phone with no splitter power down your modem and restart, test it then.

My mistake - the phone downstairs is connected via a splitter also. I didn't realise the splitter was to protect the ADSL signal from the phone - I though it was to protect the phone from the ADSL signal. Either way, both phones are connected via a splitter.

One final thought... I have a UPS in the computer room. Should the UPS's telephone line input be connected directly to the wall socket outlet, or should it be connected via the splitter?

I've actually got the telephone line wall socket connected straight in to the UPS's line input. The splitter is connected to the UPS's telephone line output, and then the modem and telephone are connected to the splitter.

[garyh]

Your connections to the UPS are correct, they are there to protect against a spike though the phone line.

[JetsetBkk]

Still not tested the other ZyXEL modem yet, but...

I've been having a lot of problems reading Thaivisa today so I tried changing the DNS server back to Google's - 8,8,8,8 & 8,8,4,4 and got an immediate improvement.

Previously I was using the True DNS servers 119.46.240.1 / 3.

[harrry]

You need a splitter on each outlet or it will fail badly. Unplug everything but the router and test again.

Only two sockets have phones connected.

The one in the computer room has the splitter.

Open sockets with ADSL are about the worstthing you can have. They should allhave phones plugged in or appropriate terninators.

[JetsetBkk]

You need a splitter on each outlet or it will fail badly. Unplug everything but the router and test again.

Only two sockets have phones connected.

The one in the computer room has the splitter.

Open sockets with ADSL are about the worst thing you can have. They should all have phones plugged in or appropriate terminators.

That's a good point you raise. Do these "terminators" have a name? I don't want to buy a load of phones if I can just get a 600 ohm (or whatever) terminator. Would an ADSL splitter do?

[centrico]

10-00 AM on a Saturday and I ran a test now using Speakeasy to San Francisco.

D/L speed 2.3 mbps

U/L speed 0.40 mbps

Using TOT 4MB connection and a Billion BiPac 5210s router.

2nd test

3.2

0.39

Considering this is a Saturday I think the results are quite good.

My torrent D/L are quick for a 4MB connection. Most times well over 200 and sometimes in the low 300's but that also depends on what I am being given on Utorrent.

No complaints here with TOT. Maybe you need to talk nicer to TOT .