Finally Had Enough. Reasons For Leaving Thailand

[dumball]

I think Thailand has the best quality of life for expats in the ASEAN region. Sure, you can go to Cambodia or Vietnam, but it is not cheap there unless you are willing to live like a local.

For example, a luxury condominium/apartment is much cheaper in Thailand than Vietnam or Cambodia. And getting ripped off in the other countries is far more likely. The people are very poor and farang make easy targets. I remember getting charged $6 at a food stall in Phnom Penh for just a small dish the other time I visited.

I enjoy visiting other countries in the region, but I would never move there any time soon. I have everything I need in Thailand; good hospitals, low prices, excellent cuisine, beaches, & pretty women . It's perfect, except for a few annoyances. But I am willing to ignore those.

You are looking at the cost of luxury condo/apt , why then look at comparison in a poor country ? You also ASSUME far too much about farang being easy targets , $6.00 at a stall for a small dish that locals and expats pay 25 cents for ? You should stay at home and hang on to Mummies skirt to ensure your safety even going to the toilet , if you expect perfection you should maybe try out Singapore or Hong Kong not even think of visiting an emerging country , more of a brats habitat .

[Tejas]

Unfortunately- the alternatives to thailand in the neighbouring area- cambodia, vietnam, laos- are far far worse than thailand in terms of corruption, double pricing, living standards for expats etc etc.

That is a myth............"far worse than Thailand in terms of corruption, double pricing, living standards for expats."

[Richb2004v2]

Good luck to anyone leaving Thailand to other shores and let us all know how you get on.

If I decide to leave Thailand, maybe the Phillipines is an alternative for the retired.

Anyone have any input?

For the retarded maybe.

[PattayaParent]

I have lived in a number of countries - including Thailand - on 3 continents. It seems that whenever you are seriously considering a foreign country you are selling your own mind massively on it; huge rose-colored glasses are practically perma-glued into place. It seems our psyche needs this to gather courage for this move.

I'd never consider moving to Viet nam personally, although I've known the place since 1999. There is just something about it I do not trust; being subjected to questioning at the airport if you stayed with a friend instead of in a hotel being just one of the things.

How do they know you didn't stay at a hotel?

I stay with family and I've never been asked why I wasn't in a hotel.

[carmine]

This was a commercial on behalf of the Tourist Authority of Thailand.

Why don't you visit Vietnam carmine then you can give us an informative and worthwhile post for once.

Read post #50

Well, if you've read my post you'll realise i'm not in any way Thailand bashing. So, do you not think that if you live in this region you would be sensible to keep and "open mind?"

[simon43]

My main frustration with Thailand is trying to do business here using the internet - it is very slow and very unreliable!

I try to contact my office in Pattaya by Skype, connection up and down and slow

I try to connect to my servers in the US, same problem

I have several connection options at my disposal, but they are all slow and unreliable.

With the recent Red Shirt problems in Bangkok, I now find that my internet connection reliability has gone from bad to very bad. Why, when I'm 800km away from Bangkok?

I cannot think of an alternative location in SE Asia that would resolve these issues AND still offer a low cost and relaxing lifestyle. So I have to struggle with the off/on/off/off internet connection.

Frustrating? yes very frustrating.

Enough to cause me to emigrate? no.

Simon

[Penefattore]

Unfortunately- the alternatives to thailand in the neighbouring area- cambodia, vietnam, laos- are far far worse than thailand in terms of corruption, double pricing, living standards for expats etc etc.

I agree.

[anotheruser]

I guess although some of my posts about Thailand come off as negative, if you do not like Thailand you will probably not like the alternatives near by. Thailand does well because it is pretty slim pickings in the near vincinity.

[dumball]

I guess although some of my posts about Thailand come off as negative, if you do not like Thailand you will probably not like the alternatives near by. Thailand does well because it is pretty slim pickings in the near vincinity.

Look at the state of Thailand at this time , and please do not say it is isolated pockets , the whole of the country is affected and it is not lkikely to improve in the short haul , it is also the most corrupt by far , from top to bottom and that is not likely to change in a very long time , if ever . Surounding nations are moving forward , Thai are taking multiple steps into history , the country is fantastic but the inhabitants are something else , otherwise , why the dirth of tourists at this time , Cambodia is afloat with all kinds of young couples and families , I wonder if that has a thing or two to do with thier safety and the fact that they are welcome instead of harassed , beat up or hospitalised ???

Rose tinted spectacles are somewhat akin to amulets , look pretty , but in times of trouble are pretty useless , get yourselves some kevlar body armour and keep up with the facts of living in the times ahead , just keep your heads down and sleep on the floor .

[kevozman1]

Man I don't know about leaving Thailand to go to a neighbouring country

or nearby right now (maybe in a few years who knows). What is there;

Cambodia:Danger

Laos: Danger

Malaysia: Muslim (say no more)

Vietnam: Bit shitty me thinks

Burma: Dont need to comment

But then again.............

There are some other countries to consider like Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong

but the only thing is you need nuff cash.

Bit further away but the place I would really love to live (if I had the oppourtunity)

is Japan. Great history/culture, genuinely great country, modern, decent enough

weather, CIVILISED PEOPLE, exciting, sexy Asian women who if you can pull

a woman will have a great time there. Then again you need a job or business

or LOTS of cash to live there.

Good luck my friend but I think when you count all the factors Thailand is

still the best. Who knows in future years.

[TigerWan]

Sorry that was to read Countries not counties. haha

Why don't you respond to the topic as intended? Pulling up OP's on spelling and/or grammar is not on. Come to think of it, your grammar leaves much to be desired, I guess thats what you get with having a 'Hill Billy Degree'.

The OP is correcting him/herself.

[mrdome]

I have lived in a number of countries - including Thailand - on 3 continents. It seems that whenever you are seriously considering a foreign country you are selling your own mind massively on it; huge rose-colored glasses are practically perma-glued into place. It seems our psyche needs this to gather courage for this move.

I'd never consider moving to Viet nam personally, although I've known the place since 1999. There is just something about it I do not trust; being subjected to questioning at the airport if you stayed with a friend instead of in a hotel being just one of the things.

How do they know you didn't stay at a hotel?

I stay with family and I've never been asked why I wasn't in a hotel.

Seriously, no idea. He asked me "Where did you stay?" and it happened to be on this trip that I stayed in my friend's condo, which had never happened before. Possibly due to some paper missing that the hotel puts in your passport, as I remember it from past trips or some info from a database?

[upinthesky]

FYI, Vietnam is triple racism. My German friend told me he went to one of the city (can't remember the name) foreigners are not allow to spend the over-night there. My poor German friend is not acknowledged about the regulation so the guard threw him out that night.

[simon43]

Kevozman1 said:

Man I don't know about leaving Thailand to go to a neighbouring country

or nearby right now (maybe in a few years who knows). What is there;

Cambodia:Danger (why?????)

Laos: Danger (Why?????)

Malaysia: Muslim (say no more) (????? please explain - I do not understand. I live in Thailand (Krabi) and the majority of my neighbours are Muslim

Vietnam: Bit shitty me thinks (you mean lack of sanitation or something?)

Burma: Dont need to comment (Why not? Practical comments would help

Simon

[mrdome]

Man I don't know about leaving Thailand to go to a neighbouring country

or nearby right now (maybe in a few years who knows). What is there;

Cambodia:Danger

Laos: Danger

[...]

And Thailand has significantly less danger?? Let's compare rates of foreigners killed in these countries. I bet you Thailand would come out on top every time even when adjusted for foreign arrival numbers. Ultimately, the level of danger depends mostly on your own behavior.

[mrdome]

FYI, Vietnam is triple racism. My German friend told me he went to one of the city (can't remember the name) foreigners are not allow to spend the over-night there. My poor German friend is not acknowledged about the regulation so the guard threw him out that night.

That is not racism. As my post shows there is still a certain paranoia left to have foreigners roam the country without any system of keeping tabs on them at all times. This alone would rule the country out for me as a retirement option.

Edited May 18, 2010 by mrdome

[tropo]

It's far from perfect but that's what I like about it, it is still very Asian unlike Farang-Thai-land.

You sound confused.

The "real" Asia is very easy to find if that is what rocks your boat. You don't really have to leave Thailand to find it.

I prefer the mix of the two lifestyles and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I don't see too many expats in Thailand living in bamboo huts without electricity or internet. I suppose you prefer to have these type of luxuries in Vietnam too...yet you extol the virtues of an 'un-Farang-like' lifestyle.

[sweeneythailand]

Sorry that was to read Countries not counties. haha

Feel much the same, don't know if it's because I grew up playing the banjo (pretty rusty now).

I will add two more.

Harsh money, banking, and investment rules and laws always stacked against foreigners, and often against Thai's as well. Aging, with family, one often needs to take care of ones savings and assets as best as possible. Very hard to do in Thailand. (land and housing is of course part of that).

Noise.

Features

Thailand's class divide

Tuesday 18 May 2010 Printable Email

Thailand is a deeply divided society. Its level of social inequality is stark even in comparison with some of its regional neighbours.

A recent survey by the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) showed that the richest 20 per cent of the Thai population own 56 per cent of the country's wealth, while the bottom 60 per cent has less than 25 per cent.

This inequality is at the heart of the conflict engulfing Thailand at the moment.

Around five million Thais live below the official poverty line, which is equivalent to £23.60 per month. While the bulk of poverty-stricken Thais in the rural areas of the north and north-east, around 1.3 million of the total are the urban poor.

The past 20 years have seen an acceleration of urbanisation as rural inhabitants have migrated to the cities, such as Bangkok and Chiang Mai, as well as to the international tourist resorts of Phuket and Koh Samui, in search of jobs.

In 1980, around 70 per cent of the country's workforce was rural. Today the figure is just over 40 per cent.

However this urbanisation has not resulted in the creation of a stable working class and in turn accounts for the weak presence of an organised labour movement in the current struggles.

Figures show that out of 11 million workers in the private sector, less than 3 per cent were unionised. The labour movement is divided into as many as 10 different trade union congresses.

The private-sector unions are often only organised at a single factory level, therefore their average membership is just a couple of hundred per union, a figure well below the critical mass for effective struggle.

During 2008 and 2009, the Thai Labour Ministry registered only 133 labour disputes and six strikes across the whole country.

Around one-quarter of the entire urban Thai labour force is engaged in the so-called informal sector - in other words they have no stable employment, no contracts, no regular salaries and no social insurance protection.

The figure is even higher among the rural workforce.

Even in key sectors such as manufacturing and construction, informal workers make up 22.1 and 47.8 per cent of those engaged in these industries. In the transport and hotel industries (critically important to Thailand's tourism industry), the figures rise to 51 and 73 per cent respectively.

In total, around 65 per cent of the Thai workforce have no social insurance.

Despite Thailand itself being a low-wage economy, large numbers of migrant workers from neighbouring countries are also employed at rates substantially lower than the Thais. There are an estimated 1.6 million registered migrant workers and perhaps a million more unregistered. This depresses wage levels, makes union organisation among these vulnerable workers immensely difficult and provides convenient scapegoats for economic and social problems.

In the countryside, things are no better. Although a highly productive agricultural economy, Thailand's farmers face huge difficulties in making ends meet.

In 2003, there were 5.8 million families with agricultural land, but 1.4 million owned less than 0.8 hectares. As a result, rural families are often reliant on loans and remittances from relatives who have gone to the cities.

The rural areas have also suffered from deprivation in terms of poor infrastructure and communications, as well as unreliable access to education and health services.

This last point is crucial. Ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra built his support on providing cheap health care to the majority of Thais. If there is one single issue that secured his electoral base it was this.

Until recently, accessible health care was available to the wealthy and to those living in cities. According to the World Health Organisation, in 2000-6 there were four physicians for every 10,000 people in Thailand, compared with 12 in the Philippines and 15 in Singapore. Even socialist Vietnam, a country with a substantially smaller GDP than Thailand, has six doctors per 10,000 people.

The doctors who do exist are also concentrated disproportionately in wealthier regions. In Bangkok there is one doctor to every 850 people, but in the mountainous Loei province there is only one for every 14,159 people.

Thaksin's first government introduced the Universal Health Care (UHC) system in 2001 to provide affordable medical treatment for all Thais.

By 2007, 63.2 million people out of the total population of 66 million had some form of health insurance coverage. Around eight million were covered as employees contributing to the social security fund, six million as government staff, state enterprise employees or retirees or family members, 1.4 million were covered by company schemes and 0.6 million under other schemes.

However, it was opening up access to health care for the remaining 48.4 million of the Thai population that transformed the landscape.

This hitherto unprotected and neglected section of Thai people were issued with cards entitling them to health care for a fee of 30 baht (around 65p) per doctor or hospital visit. This fee was then eliminated in 2007.

According to researchers, this one scheme alone enabled one million Thais to rise above the official poverty line. It ensured Thaksin's political base.

This yawning social divide is at the heart of the current crisis. It is no longer hidden but has now become an undeniable part of the conflict that has moved well beyond a campaign to reinstate Thaksin. Thailand's democratic and class struggles are now effectively intertwined.

A turbulent history...

Few countries have suffered as much from the big screen as Thailand. Patronised in Hollywood's King and I, eroticised in the soft-porn Emanuelle and portrayed as a hedonistic playground in The Beach, this beautiful and complex country has been reduced to a series of Western-imposed cliches that fit the stereotypes of submissive, duplicitous and sensuous Orientals.

Official histories in Thailand are little better, portraying virtuous, noble monarchs leading a proud and united Thai people resisting foreign domination for century after century.

This is no academic exercise in historical debate. Conservative and semi-fascist forces in Thailand today attempt to portray the Red Shirt opposition as opponents of this idealised Thai nation. Rightwingers imply that the pro-democracy demonstrators are not really Thai, not simply that their loyalties are suspect but that somehow they have betrayed their bloodline.

Dr Tul Sitthisomwong, a lecturer at Chulalongkorn University's Faculty of Medicine, was quoted in the Thai media as saying that "speaking as a doctor, love for the country and the king was embedded only in Thais' DNA, not that of other peoples. It was a pity that many Thais had mutated and did not have the love for the king in their DNA and should not be called Thai."

Naturally the truth is a little more complex.

The modern kingdom of Thailand was internationally known as Siam until 1932. The word Thai is in derived from the term Tai, used to describe a broader ethnic group, who originated in south-western China and migrated southwards over 1,000 years ago.

Over several centuries, these Tai peoples gradually established their own principalities and statelets and fought long-running wars with neighbouring peoples, such as the Burmese, Khmer, Vietnamese and Malays, each seeking to stake a claim to contested territory.

Much of the land they settled in had once been part of a network of mixed Hindu and Buddhist states. This was a reflection of Indian cultural influence that stretched from the subcontinent through south-east Asia, reaching as far as the Indonesian island of Bali, which is still Hindu today.

These states were highly advanced, as shown by the famous Angkor Wat complex in Cambodia, originally built to honour the Hindu god Vishnu but adapted to later Buddhist influences.

Even today, the US-born Thai king Bhumibol includes among his titles Rama Maharaja - a reference to the country's Hindu influences. The Thai monarchy still uses many Sanskrit-derived terms in its honorific titles.

By the late 1700s, the ethnically Tai state of Siam had become a powerful regional force. It eventually settled its capital at Bangkok after Burmese invaders sacked its previous one at Ayutthaya.

As in feudal Europe, Siam was created as a result of the absorption and unification of a number of minor states through diplomacy, invasion or alliance. Its influence extended to a number of surrounding regions, some also ethnically Tai such as the Shan States in modern Myanmar, what is today Laos, parts of south-west China, as well as to weaker non-Tai neighbours such as the Malay sultanates and Cambodia.

However, with the arrival of European powers seeking colonies in Asia, a second set of factors began to shape the emergence of modern Thailand.

Despite Thai pride that the country was never colonised, the truth is that a helpless Thai ruling class bargained away large swathes of territory in ransom to British and French imperialism.

Following Britain's consolidation of colonial rule in India and in the Malayan peninsula, Britain looked to incorporate the patchwork of small principalities and sultanates that were under the Thai throne. By the late 1890s, the British empire had annexed the Shan States to British Burma and several sultanates to British Malaya. The French were no less active, adding Cambodia, a Thai vassal state, and the Tai-speaking territories of Laos, to French Indochina.

These steps effectively put Thailand in a vice, squeezed by the British from the west and south and the French from the east.

However, neither the British nor French were keen on directly sharing borders of their possessions. Thailand's independence was guaranteed, therefore, only as a buffer state.

An avalanche of treaties, invariably broken and then renegotiated to their benefit by the colonial powers, saw 25,000 square miles of Thai-controlled territory lost to the European colonialists in the 19th century.

In 1896, an Anglo-French convention defined spheres of influence in south-east Asia, which formalised Thailand's status.

As elsewhere, the arbitrary partition of territories to satisfy the desires of outside powers meant many unresolved territorial disputes and ethnic anomalies.

In recent years, three provinces in southern Thailand, Pattani Yala and Narathiwat, the remnants of the Malay sultanate of Pattani, have been the scene of a bloody insurgency by its ethnically Malay and Muslim inhabitants against the Thai state.

Border tensions between Thailand, Laos and Cambodia likewise have their roots not in a mutually agreed negotiation of frontiers but on those imposed on both countries over a century ago.

This country's fascinating history has again become a battleground as political forces on both sides seek to mobilise the ghosts of the past as allies in the struggles of the present.

[dmax]

go try sihanoukville in cambodia , u may well love it down there !!

[kevozman1]

Kevozman1 said:

Man I don't know about leaving Thailand to go to a neighbouring country

or nearby right now (maybe in a few years who knows). What is there;

Cambodia:Danger (why?????)

Laos: Danger (Why?????)

Malaysia: Muslim (say no more) (????? please explain - I do not understand. I live in Thailand (Krabi) and the majority of my neighbours are Muslim

Vietnam: Bit shitty me thinks (you mean lack of sanitation or something?)

Burma: Dont need to comment (Why not? Practical comments would help

Simon

So sorry Simon I have edited my ill informed post;

Cambodia: Completely safe, hey why not take the kids.

Laos: Well known for great hospitality towards visitors.

Malaysia: Those Muslim chaps are very pleasant and so liberal towards different religous groups and sexualities.

Vietnam: Has won awards for cleanest country in Asia.

Burma: World wide admiration for great democratic rights of its citizens.

[Shrek]

Hey! Come to the UK (every b@st@rd else has)

Its great, we have a shiny new government thats gonna tax the arse off us

Raging unemployment

All the pits will be closed (ooops they already are)

Graduates leave Uni £30k in debt

Old people sell their houses to pay money-grabbing nursing homes to help them die

The only new buildings are mosques

Want me to go on... ????

Poor old you in Thailand.

[tropo]

Thailand is a deeply divided society. Its level of social inequality is stark even in comparison with some of its regional neighbours.

A recent survey by the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) showed that the richest 20 per cent of the Thai population own 56 per cent of the country's wealth, while the bottom 60 per cent has less than 25 per cent.

This inequality is at the heart of the conflict engulfing Thailand at the moment.

Around five million Thais live below the official poverty line, which is equivalent to £23.60 per month. While the bulk of poverty-stricken Thais in the rural areas of the north and north-east, around 1.3 million of the total are the urban poor.

These figures aren't so shocking if you consider that (according to CIA estimates) 12% of USA inhabitants live below the povery line. That's 36,000,000 people.

[PattayaParent]

Thailand is a deeply divided society. Its level of social inequality is stark even in comparison with some of its regional neighbours.

A recent survey by the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) showed that the richest 20 per cent of the Thai population own 56 per cent of the country's wealth, while the bottom 60 per cent has less than 25 per cent.

This inequality is at the heart of the conflict engulfing Thailand at the moment.

Around five million Thais live below the official poverty line, which is equivalent to £23.60 per month. While the bulk of poverty-stricken Thais in the rural areas of the north and north-east, around 1.3 million of the total are the urban poor.

These figures aren't so shocking if you consider that (according to CIA estimates) 12% of USA inhabitants live below the povery line. That's 36,000,000 people.

And even in developed countries the richest of the population are a minority percentage.

[carmine]

Hey! Come to the UK (every b@st@rd else has)

Its great, we have a shiny new government thats gonna tax the arse off us

Raging unemployment

All the pits will be closed (ooops they already are)

Graduates leave Uni £30k in debt

Old people sell their houses to pay money-grabbing nursing homes to help them die

The only new buildings are mosques

Want me to go on... ????

Poor old you in Thailand.

Sounds great...when can i come back

[ExpatJ]

I guess although some of my posts about Thailand come off as negative, if you do not like Thailand you will probably not like the alternatives near by. Thailand does well because it is pretty slim pickings in the near vincinity.

Look at the state of Thailand at this time , and please do not say it is isolated pockets , the whole of the country is affected and it is not lkikely to improve in the short haul , it is also the most corrupt by far , from top to bottom and that is not likely to change in a very long time , if ever . Surounding nations are moving forward , Thai are taking multiple steps into history , the country is fantastic but the inhabitants are something else , otherwise , why the dirth of tourists at this time , Cambodia is afloat with all kinds of young couples and families , I wonder if that has a thing or two to do with thier safety and the fact that they are welcome instead of harassed , beat up or hospitalised ???

Rose tinted spectacles are somewhat akin to amulets , look pretty , but in times of trouble are pretty useless , get yourselves some kevlar body armour and keep up with the facts of living in the times ahead , just keep your heads down and sleep on the floor .

This made me laugh- the corruption in Cambodia, vietnam , Laos is much much worse than thailand. And the living standards for expats in terms of facilities, goods, accomodation is much lower too in Cambodia, vietnam etc..

[PattayaParent]

FYI, Vietnam is triple racism. My German friend told me he went to one of the city (can't remember the name) foreigners are not allow to spend the over-night there. My poor German friend is not acknowledged about the regulation so the guard threw him out that night.

I had the same experience in Bhopal in India.

They don't want people seeing the vicitms of the toxic poisoning there.

Your friend wasn't in Agent Orange country was he?

[soundman]

Posts & replies with links to banned subject removed.