International Schools - Big Money Making Machines

[seadoo]

We send our children to St Andrew's at Rayong and we just can't believe it, without justification and/or notice they jack up the already high fees yesterday by hiding in the middle of their newsletter, plus they ask the parents to regularly donate to the school to fund books etc for the library.

Here's how it looks on paper to me;

Term fee's are around 125,000 per term x 3 terms

375,000 per year ++ with around 15 students per class = 5,625,000 per class per year.

Less 1 Teacher per class get paid 90,000 per month on average = 1,080,000 per year.

Teachers Aid, if the class is young enough they have a Teachers Aid, usually a Thai National which are paid around 15,000 per month or 180,000 per year.

So;

5,625,000 class fee's plus plus per class, less

1,080,000 teacher (maybe a little more for work permit etc)

180,000 teachers aid

4,365,000 per class to cover admin, maintenance, security.

And there are around 800 students at St Andrew's so at 15 students per class, that around 50 classroom x the above.

And then they have the nerve to ask Parents to donate for books etc.

If you have a child at an International School what are your thoughts on what they charge???

[prk888]

Yes. So?

[FarangBuddha]

Rug-rats (and wives and girlfriends) are expensive...that's why I never had any...condoms are cheaper

A friend in Bangkok pays US$ 15k per year (non-boarding and transportation extra) at one of the international schools there...yikes! But agree...must be a real money-spinner as the business has grown by leaps and bounds during the decade I've been here. Got no beef with that...they're private businesses and obviously lots of demand by wealthy Thais and corporate expat types.

Edited May 12, 2010 by FarangBuddha

[angiud]

[moo9]

Farangs staying here with children mostly work as expat and in this case the companies are paying the fee. That's why the schools can ask those prices.

A tiny minority would move here with school children, as nobody could afford to pay the fees and in addition the quality of schools and teachers is not really at top international levels.

[PattayaParent]

So I'm guessing this is the first term that you've had your kids in St, Andrews Green Valley since the new fees are published every term and invariably go up.

I notice in your calculations you have fogotten to include the construction costs of the new buildings, library and learning centre building last year, 2 new kindergarden buildings the year before, a new canteen I believe this year.

[PattayaParent]

Farangs staying here with children mostly work as expat and in this case the companies are paying the fee. That's why the schools can ask those prices.

A tiny minority would move here with school children, as nobody could afford to pay the fees and in addition the quality of schools and teachers is not really at top international levels.

All of the parents I know at St. Andrew's pay the school fees out of their own pockets, including myself.

I'm beginning to think this 'company pays school fees' thing is a bit of a myth thought up by people who don't even have kids.

[moo9]

All of the parents I know at St. Andrew's pay the school fees out of their own pockets, including myself.

I'm beginning to think this 'company pays school fees' thing is a bit of a myth thought up by people who don't even have kids.

So those parents are all entrepreneurs or vital retired persons with young kids? Mai kow jai....

[basjke]

Farangs staying here with children mostly work as expat and in this case the companies are paying the fee. That's why the schools can ask those prices.

A tiny minority would move here with school children, as nobody could afford to pay the fees and in addition the quality of schools and teachers is not really at top international levels.

All of the parents I know at St. Andrew's pay the school fees out of their own pockets, including myself.

I'm beginning to think this 'company pays school fees' thing is a bit of a myth thought up by people who don't even have kids.

I have no kids at St Andrews school,don't like ripp-offs,still I know several parents who have children there from wich the school fee gets paid by the company theu work for.

I also know a teacher at Regents school and he aknowledged to me that a big part of the students get their school fees paid by a Company.

So,no myth.

[seadoo]

So I'm guessing this is the first term that you've had your kids in St, Andrews Green Valley since the new fees are published every term and invariably go up.

I notice in your calculations you have fogotten to include the construction costs of the new buildings, library and learning centre building last year, 2 new kindergarden buildings the year before, a new canteen I believe this year.

No I did not forget them, they were mostly donated by a parent(s) that has a construction company in lieu of fees same way the sports ground was built.

Anyway, even if they were paid by way of cash or bank loan, for a single skin building, it does not cost much to build in Thailand, if I remember, somewhere between 15k to 20k per square metre.

The canteen is being built for them by donation in lieu of fees.

BTW, I pay my fees from the money I earn, no company pays my fees for me.

[kevinbkk]

I had to choose between the Swiss School in Miniburi and the German School in Chiang Mai.

Swiss School:

One-time entrance fee: 165,000.00

Campus Development Fund SEA (refundable): 200,000.00

or

20,000.00 per semester not refundable

Then per term:

Kindergarten 126,000.00

Basic Level 162,300.00

Grades 2 -6 191,500.00

Grades 7-10 252,000.00

Grades 11-12 265,650.00

Furthermore other fee's for food, transportation, uniform and all that stuff.

German School Chiang Mai:

Admin Fee per Year: 15,000.00

Then per Term:

Kindergarten: 27,500.00

Grade 1 to 6: 65,000.00

Grade 7 up: 75,000.00

Even with weekly flights Bangkok - Chiang Mai - Bangkok I save Money compared to any International School in Bangkok. The climate is good in Chiang Mai, Houses are cheap, almost no traffic and each class in school has only between 5 and 12 children. Very good learning environment.

Ok, the downside is that I see my child only from Friday until monday, but in Bangkok I would see him only a hour or two during the week. We talk daily over Webcam and everything works fine and he get a good eduction.

I think english speaking international schools in Chiang Mai are cheaper as Schools in Bangkok as well, but I'm not sure.

[seadoo]

So I'm guessing this is the first term that you've had your kids in St, Andrews Green Valley since the new fees are published every term and invariably go up.

I notice in your calculations you have fogotten to include the construction costs of the new buildings, library and learning centre building last year, 2 new kindergarden buildings the year before, a new canteen I believe this year.

Sorry, not picking on you, but one more point from my original calculation

5,625,000 class fee's plus plus per class, less

1,080,000 teacher (maybe a little more for work permit etc)

180,000 teachers aid

4,365,000 per class to cover admin, maintenance, security.

And there are around 800 students at St Andrew's so at 15 students per class, that around 50 classroom x the above.

So even if they gross around 4 million per class, not sure exactly how many classes in the school, but the school has around 800 students, that as I mentioned above would be around 50 classes.

Therefore, that would be a gross of around 200 million per year and they certainly didn't spend that on buildings etc.

[ESB7]

It seems to be the case throughout Thailand but more costly in other areas such as Samui. With three kids I could not justify one million baht plus a year on education. That now equates to £25k a year!!! My kids are young and Thai nationals so I pay only 12,000 baht a year at a state school. With home learning and saving almost 20 million baht over the period it will be better spent on university in later years. If your kids are older and not Thai there just isnt any other real option.

[kevinbkk]

In my case, my kid is thai / german and a state school would be no problem, but to be honest, I don't like state schools.

[jellymeister]

maybe there are some "overheads" missing from your calculation.....

So I'm guessing this is the first term that you've had your kids in St, Andrews Green Valley since the new fees are published every term and invariably go up.

I notice in your calculations you have fogotten to include the construction costs of the new buildings, library and learning centre building last year, 2 new kindergarden buildings the year before, a new canteen I believe this year.

Sorry, not picking on you, but one more point from my original calculation

5,625,000 class fee's plus plus per class, less

1,080,000 teacher (maybe a little more for work permit etc)

180,000 teachers aid

4,365,000 per class to cover admin, maintenance, security.

And there are around 800 students at St Andrew's so at 15 students per class, that around 50 classroom x the above.

So even if they gross around 4 million per class, not sure exactly how many classes in the school, but the school has around 800 students, that as I mentioned above would be around 50 classes.

Therefore, that would be a gross of around 200 million per year and they certainly didn't spend that on buildings etc.

[PattayaParent]

maybe there are some "overheads" missing from your calculation.....

No, no. Electricity and water are free, they're paid for by parents in lieu of school fees

And the government let the school operate tax free too!!

[seadoo]

No idea why you want to be so opposite but everyone knows that if you been sent overseas to work as a boardmember or another high rank function for a respectable company that you will get an allowance for housing and education of your children.

Do you really think that a family with lets say 3 children would go work overseas if they had to pay a few million a year,in this case we talk about maybe 200.000 a month, to have their children educated which would be free in their homecountry.

We did, and we work for a multi-national company and we pay our own way - generalisation is a wonderful thing.

[eurasianthai]

Go to the French school, it is sponsored by the French government.

They want us to speak French.

So it is much, much cheaper than other International schools.

Quite a few Brits and Americans there actually, in the bilingual classes, and as an added bonus, well, they'll speak French...

[rgs2001uk]

No idea why you want to be so opposite but everyone knows that if you been sent overseas to work as a boardmember or another high rank function for a respectable company that you will get an allowance for housing and education of your children.

Do you really think that a family with lets say 3 children would go work overseas if they had to pay a few million a year,in this case we talk about maybe 200.000 a month, to have their children educated which would be free in their homecountry.

Everyone knows that do they?

Then I would suggest that they don't actually know anyone that has been sent to work overseas by their company but I have been, as have many people I know and work with, and school fees are not paid by the company.

There are guys I know living and working in Bkk, the minimum these guys are getting for housing and education allowance is 200k baht per month.

Guess it depends on the company and how badly your skills are needed in Thailand.

[tgw]

I don't know what the fuss about...

1- Yes, the international schools are expensive. They are not aimed at mid-level income families. When you see who the parents of the children are, it is certainly not the manager of your local branch of Kasikorn Bank down the street or the chief of Pattaya Carrefour's electronics department. We are talking really high income here, starting at approx. 400k to 500k monthly income before tax (i.e. about 300k net), including allowances.

2- Yes, high-ranking executives (as well as high ranking diplomatic/trade mission staff) on "expat packages" have expense allowances including housing and education of children, as well as a number of flights home per year for the whole family. All companies provide this, otherwise these guys wouldn't take the assignment.

This explains why this range of customers is not very price-sensitive.

It is the kind of package about which you speak with the HR manager personally.

I got 2 children and I know I will have to pay about 1 million baht per year for them to attend school.

[seadoo]

I don't know what the fuss about...

1- Yes, the international schools are expensive. They are not aimed at mid-level income families. When you see who the parents of the children are, it is certainly not the manager of your local branch of Kasikorn Bank down the street or the chief of Pattaya Carrefour's electronics department. We are talking really high income here, starting at approx. 400k to 500k monthly income before tax (i.e. about 300k net), including allowances.

2- Yes, high-ranking executives (as well as high ranking diplomatic/trade mission staff) on "expat packages" have expense allowances including housing and education of children, as well as a number of flights home per year for the whole family. All companies provide this, otherwise these guys wouldn't take the assignment.

This explains why this range of customers is not very price-sensitive.

It is the kind of package about which you speak with the HR manager personally.

I got 2 children and I know I will have to pay about 1 million baht per year for them to attend school.

I don't know what school your kids go to, but at St Andrews Rayong, you only need to go to the school at drop off time or pick up time, like we do, to see that what you are saying is so incorrect.

Maybe a small % are earning 400k plus, but there are more everyday parents, retirees and yes small business owners that make up most of the Parents who are simply trying to give their children an education.

The school keeps saying it has the best interest of the children, but they really only care about their pockets, and how crazy to raise the prices again in such a bad economic climate, there are more dropping out of the school all the time because they can't afford the fees. You think in tough times, the school would want to maintain its numbers rather than risk losing our little bankers.

The school has basically become the Bangkok Pattaya Hospital of Schools, money first, care second.

BTW, this is not aimed at the teachers working there, my kids absolutely adore their teachers.

[Basil B]

Why not just pack em off to Eton and Oxford, at least they will be in on the chance to be a Prim Minister by the age 45...

[tgw]

I don't know what school your kids go to

Obviously not St Andrews Rayong,

[PattayaParent]

I don't know what school your kids go to, but at St Andrews Rayong, you only need to go to the school at drop off time or pick up time, like we do, to see that what you are saying is so incorrect.

Maybe a small % are earning 400k plus, but there are more everyday parents, retirees and yes small business owners that make up most of the Parents who are simply trying to give their children an education.

I agree, I know several Thai families where I live that send their kids to St. Andrews and they don't earn anywhere 400k in combined salaries.

The school keeps saying it has the best interest of the children, but they really only care about their pockets, and how crazy to raise the prices again in such a bad economic climate, there are more dropping out of the school all the time because they can't afford the fees. You think in tough times, the school would want to maintain its numbers rather than risk losing our little bankers.

The school has basically become the Bangkok Pattaya Hospital of Schools, money first, care second.

BTW, this is not aimed at the teachers working there, my kids absolutely adore their teachers.

But you don't want to see them get a pay rise though eh?

Edited May 13, 2010 by PattayaParent

[soihok]

Why not just pack em off to Eton and Oxford, at least they will be in on the chance to be a Prim Minister by the age 45...

Just like that eh?

Seriously.

Its a tricky one the subject of schools.

One would want to do ones best to provide the best ( and enjoyable.....lets not forget if it ain't fun, the child won't want to know ) education available for your children.

I have one of my daughters in an international school here in Singapore ,the fees quoted here are similar to what I am paying .I am receiving a (very) good wage, but its out of that wage I pay and its my ( and my wifes ) choice.

School fees are not included ,directly.

[PattayaParent]

Don't forget that international schools oir pivate schools anywhere in the world are a business and as a business they need to make money to stay in business.

Just think what you would do if these schools closed because they were not making money.

Where would your kids go to school? If you were happy for them to get a Thai government school education I'm sure you'd already have them in a Thai government school.

[mogy]

Vent of spleen coming up !

The opening statement is the complete truth. One of our kids used to go to Andrews and we took him out because because it seemed like the school were only interested in making a bundle of money - Pattayaparent: if I remember correctly you've responded to this type of query a few years ago by again highlighting all the new buildings the school has built and the yearly increase in salaries - 2 questions: like to know what's your connection to the school and how many bloody buildings do they need down there ? To me, the primary role of a school should be education and then if they can warrant the cost of expansion by all means go ahead but they should afford the parents who have paid their salaries all along some bit of respect by not constantly driving them to the bank. Anyway the costs kept increasing but the education standard wasn't being maintained either so we took him out. By the way when he was there I'd say about 12 of the 15 kids in his class were being 'company educated'

He's now in Regents (don't laugh) and to tell you the truth while the costs aren't a whole lot different - (used to be margninally higher but I think they're on a par now ???), the standard is marginally higher. However you need to constantly be on top of things with respect to home schooling - I honestly couldn't see much progress being made if we didn't do our own home schooling. One of my biggest peeves is why this school don't give homework - he's in year 3. I've questioned it many times and have been told that some parents don't like their children being pushed too hard so the school doesn't give homework. I'm now of the impression that this is tosh ! The teachers don't want to give it because it's extra work for them.

If anyone who works at the school has another reason then by all means join the conversation. I'm sure someone who works at Regents must read these outbursts sometimes.

The main reason we kept him in a western schooling system was to allow him the eventual opportunity to go to college in Europe if he wants to later on. Now I'm beninning to think this is a waste of money.

To add to that, the costs keep increasing each year also. 3 years = 3 increases in costs. They send out this letter each year telling us that if we pay for the year ahead we can save 10% on the yearly cost. This is due to the fact that the cost is increasing by 5% and they're giving us a 5% discount. Then they try to impress on us with condescending drivel that due to the present bank savings rates we're making greater savings !!!!............I just wish the pathetic attempts at consolation would stop, they'd stop treating the parents like kids and just ask us for the money. Again most of the kids in his class are company educated.

The killer last year was that in the very week that the local newspapers announced a 3% decrease in the cost of living for the country, the Regents proceded to send out their 3% increase in costs letter. Brilliant economics from all involved ! A letter requesting justification of this increase was duly ignored by the school.

Can anyone who has had kids leave the schooling system here confirm if lets say a kid from Maryvit or Burapha can get into Uni in western europe by having a 'Thai' education cert instead of from a school that striclty adheres to the british curriculum with IGCSE's etc?

[PattayaParent]

<snip> Pattayaparent: if I remember correctly you've responded to this type of query a few years ago by again highlighting all the new buildings the school has built and the yearly increase in salaries - 2 questions: like to know what's your connection to the school and how many bloody buildings do they need down there ?<snip>

I've no connection to the school and I'd like the kids to be taught in buildings, not in tents.

[tonititan]

To me, the primary role of a school should be education and then if they can warrant the cost of expansion by all means go ahead

I don't know the details of the school in question, but sometimes expansion is necessary in order to increase the quality of education.

One of my biggest peeves is why this school don't give homework - he's in year 3. I've questioned it many times and have been told that some parents don't like their children being pushed too hard so the school doesn't give homework. I'm now of the impression that this is tosh ! The teachers don't want to give it because it's extra work for them.

In the field of education, the "old school" camp believes in giving large amounts of homework. The new train of thought, supported by research, believes that homework is not necessarily helpful for a student, especially at a young age. In some cases it has been found to be detrimental. Educational philosophy is constantly changing, so the type of education we grew up with probably isn't going to be the same as the education children get now. Just because it is different than what you are used to doesn't mean it's wrong. Most schools, including the one I work at, have some sort of homework policy that dictates whether homework should be given, and if so, then how much. So it is quite likely that it is not the teacher's decision. It might be helpful to find out if your child's school has a homework policy.

The killer last year was that in the very week that the local newspapers announced a 3% decrease in the cost of living for the country, the Regents proceded to send out their 3% increase in costs letter. Brilliant economics from all involved !

Lol, it sounds like they learned that one from the rest of Thailand.

Edited May 13, 2010 by tonititan

[micls]

In the field of education, the "old school" camp believes in giving large amounts of homework. The new train of thought, supported by research, believes that homework is not necessarily helpful for a student, especially at a young age. In some cases it has been found to be detrimental. Educational philosophy is constantly changing, the type of education we grew up with isn't going to be the same as the education children get now. Just because it is different than what you are used to doesn't mean it's wrong. Most schools, including the one I work at, have some sort of homework policy that dictates whether homework should be given, and if so, then how much. So it is quite likely that it is not the teacher's decision. It might be helpful to find out if your child's school has a homework policy.

Agreed. I'm a teacher here in Ireland, and have had incidents of parents complaining I dont give enough homework or on days I didnt give any homework.

There is no benefit to giving homework for the sake of it. I only give homework when I feel the children need to revise something specific, or I want them to learn specific spellings or something.

I do see the benefit of sometimes giving some homework, but the hour a night doing stuff you already know and understand to keep you busy.

Also as mentioned most schools have a homework policy, here anyway, it's not the teacher's own choice a lot of the time.