Clashes Continue, Turning Central Bangkok In Virtual Warzone

[truethailand]

Can somebody post me a link to a red protestor, outside the barricade, firing live ammo, bcos I can only see soldiers shooting to kill. Links from yesterday only

[pimay11]

I answered partially in my other post but let me make one more time things more clear. And PLEASE try to read my posts not as a supporter of reds or yellows but as a "third person".

You may read my posts as a red supporter who believes they are being led as lambs to slaughter by a violent megalomaniacal madman.

The fundamental purpose of a government is the maintenance of basic security and public order. Agree. When a government faces such a big political crisis that has seriously threaten public order it has one option. To restore order with all possible legal means and to put people that are breaking the law in jail. Agree. In fact this is the first government to even attempt that. If the government can not do this it means more or less that is is not capable to manage a country I disagree. The PM inherited a government with wholly incompetent, corrupt and disloyal parties. This crisis is flushing them out and he is making adjustments as necessary in about as stressful an environment as can be imagined. It may not appear like it but he has made progress. and it should seek re-assurance from the public. And that was IMHO the reason behind the PM's proposal for election on November. The people have trusted you to do a job if you can not do the job you have to ask again your people if they trust you or if they want to try something else. It sounds very simplistic but it is the essence of democratic governance. I think your first sentence is the essence of democratic government. Without it, elections don't mean very much.

Another point I'd like to make. Earlier tonight there were rumors circulating that the Deputy PM had been shot in the head by the Army. No corroboration so it probably didn't happen, but there isn't anyone reading this that doesn't believe that it is possible something like that could happen right now. That is not a climate for elections. Especially elections not due.

PS: I have to go to sleep now so I am sorry but I'll not be able to post more tonight. I promise that I'll come back Good night to everybody. Good Night.

Of course I can not convince you because you are so poisoned with the fight between specific persons (Abhisit, Thaksin etc.) that you can not see that everyone is doing mistakes in this story. As you can see in my posts I believe that the right is somewhere in the middle (which is the usual situation in political crisis) but you obviously have your agenda with Abhisit, Thaksin or whoever else.

You've only been here a couple of tears so I guess it is possible you don't know, but Abhisit's government IS the middle.

All Abhisit has to do to stop this is to call an election, how many more people must die before he does what he inevitably will

have to end up doing?

On the other hand all the red leaders have to do is call off the protest and go home and wait for an election. They had their chance for an election in six months but the big boss Mr. T would not let this happen. You reap what you sow.

[Steely Dan]

sweet - way to align yourselves with a group using elderly woman and children as human shields. Hey shouldn't the "leaders" of your side be turning themselves in today?

Human shields are people that are neutral civilians and used by terrorists (i mean real terrorists) for protection .

Those women and elderly are not neutral , they are protesting on their own free will .

Nobody force them . This is a popular protest by people , and people do not only include

male 19-25 years old

Please cut the BS

they are there for money, if it was not for the promise of a pay day they would be back at home doing nothing.

Which is why an emergency decree is needed to freeze the assets of all red leaders and send someone to Montenegro dressed in black and carrying a scythe.

[seahorse]

To Moderators....... would it be possible to have a thread in which we just got peoples eyewitness reports? this is now about 58 pages of the same old arguments, and within it are maybe 4 or 5 interesting and useful comments from people who have actually seen what is happening on the ground. This could be a valuable resource considering the shocking media coverage, but instead its just become a platform for my ignorant opinion is better than your ignorant opinion.

I've been down there all morning..... its nothing like half the goons on here make out!

An eyewitness thread would be good.

Agree about the eyewitness thread.

However I have to disagree with the bolded part. That is not a recent development.

[OzMick]

to quote Clint Eastwood -- "it hel_l of a job to kill a man... it takes all he's got.. " may be not the exact words ..still..

Those guys under those Army uniforms are humans as well ... they are no robots... maybe they don't want to do it quickly and decisively...

and stop branding people red/yellow apologist pls... some of us here just want no more deaths... no Reds, no Yellow and no Armymen ...

Yes, I have been thinking about this too. I have read many posts about how the police and army in Western countries would have been more hardline, and I think that is true. I think it is true because most of the quasi-psychopathic types that don't end up in jail in my country tend to be in the army or police, and being given the order to crack heads largely fills their fantasies and pumps up their boasts. The fact that they can justify it by saying 'I'm doing my duty' is just a convenient excuse that absolves them from feeling any moral responsibility for bashing people's heads in.

In contrast, Thais are a lot less aggressive, more peace-loving and nowhere near as gung-ho. That is part of the beauty and charm of this country as opposed to the one I come from, where aggressive stares meet you on every street corner. I'm not surprised the troops are reluctant, and although I wish to see this protests end, I think it would be far more effective if they simply drove a bunch of tanks and APCs up to Rajarprasong and occupied the area without fighting anyone. The troops inside could defend themselves from being overrun with minimum force and it would stop all these random gunfire deaths and beatings of poor conscripts in trucks.

I consider your 1st paragraph to be one of the most pathetic things that I have read on this forum. The only analogy that comes close is an oyster bitching about how confining it's shell has become. I sincerely hope that at some stage in your life you need the assistance of a police officer, and that he tells you to fight your own battles.

PS No, I am not nor ever have been a police officer.

[jdinasia]

Jerry --- you are Red. You have always excused the red threats of violence as "negotiations". You have failed to speak out against the red use of violence and instead have excused it as being needed for change and then added historical references to the French revolution AND to violent mobs using force as part of negotiations in France and other parts of Europe. It is when the reds get HURT that you speak about peace.

The reds had a great deal offered to them. They wanted elections. They wanted investigations into April 10th, they wanted and wanted. They were offered what they wanted then added more and would not go home. They called for violence and then vowed to fight to the death. You called it "negotiations". Now that they have the violence THEY called for from the red stage .......

Your claim to non-partisanship is not true --- one has only to read your posts. You are Red.

If asking for PEACE and no deaths is beeing red then I am red too and so is

most of the rest of the world , including a vast majority of thais .

Go on Jerry ....

sweet - way to align yourselves with a group using elderly woman and children as human shields. Hey shouldn't the "leaders" of your side be turning themselves in today?

Ahhhh but Jerry isn't for peace. Pornsasi is creating a strawman argument. Jerry has excused the violence on the part of the reds as part of "negotiation" and speaks of "PEACE" only when the violence and violent rhetoric of the reds comes back on the reds.

Face it --- the reds in BKK have been preaching violence from before the BKK rally began in March. Their leaders called for everything from burning the NACC down, to burning ALL of BKK down before a single shot was fired. They called for violence from BEFORE the state of Emergency. They attacked 1st Regiment and Thaicom with weapons BEFORE the government responded with any force. Jerry excused every event. He's not for peace, he's for Red peace.

A peaceful protest would come into BKK unarmed .... maybe even violate the law (civil disobedience) by camping in a major area like Rachprasong. They would sit down and let the police haul them off one by one and keep sending people in to get arrested. They would make PEACEFUL statements not violent statements.

That just isn't the Reds.

The reds have needed violence from the beginning to try and force a change in government. They instigated the violence on Apr 10th. They are armed. They aren't open to Negotiation and never have been. Thaksin needs new elections NOW. Thaksin is controlling what the reds do. (Check with Sae Daeng's public statements back when he was making them!)

BTW --- I am for PEACE too. I think protests are acceptable. To obtain PEACE the reds need to go home or

DISARM and move to a place where it is legal to demonstrate. Where exercising their civil right to protest does not impede the civil rights of others.

[monkfish]

UN will send Troops in soon to stop the Government killing civilians.

[mommysboy]

At this point I think it woud be much better if the United Nations took control as clearly both sides are hel_l bent on anarchy.

[agord]

Human shields are people that are neutral civilians and used by terrorists (i mean real terrorists) for protection .

Those women and elderly are not neutral , they are protesting on their own free will .

Nobody force them . This is a popular protest by people , and people do not only include

male 19-25 years old

Please cut the BS

I might suggest that you cut the bs sir. I noticed you left the children out but Im sure your next post will describe them as willing protestors wel informed of why they are there and what they are protesting for - Im not sure ANY of the reds know why they are REALLY there. Also how many have had their IDs taken from them and are there under threat and intimidation? You had it right mate they are real terrorists and when a ten year old boy gets shot directly from the actions of one of your terrorists trying to run a road block you can stand back and say look how evil the govt is.

[animatic]

JUST STOP

No one wants any more of this off topic crap.

Russell,

You are now walking a very shaky ground, claiming on a public forum that I have sent you a sexually offensive message via PM, which true to form is an Utter Lie.

Not a lie mate, ive saved it and will forward it on if i have to, to prove it.

Sorry mate, but you really shouldn't have sent it in the first place.

[JRinger]

to quote Clint Eastwood -- "it hel_l of a job to kill a man... it takes all he's got.. " may be not the exact words ..still..

Those guys under those Army uniforms are humans as well ... they are no robots... maybe they don't want to do it quickly and decisively...

and stop branding people red/yellow apologist pls... some of us here just want no more deaths... no Reds, no Yellow and no Armymen ...

1. Yes, I have been thinking about this too. I have read many posts about how the police and army in Western countries would have been more hardline, and I think that is true. I think it is true because most of the quasi-psychopathic types that don't end up in jail in my country tend to be in the army or police, and being given the order to crack heads largely fills their fantasies and pumps up their boasts. The fact that they can justify it by saying 'I'm doing my duty' is just a convenient excuse that absolves them from feeling any moral responsibility for bashing people's heads in.

2. In contrast, Thais are a lot less aggressive, more peace-loving and nowhere near as gung-ho. That is part of the beauty and charm of this country as opposed to the one I come from, where aggressive stares meet you on every street corner. I'm not surprised the troops are reluctant, and although I wish to see this protests end, I think it would be far more effective if they simply drove a bunch of tanks and APCs up to Rajarprasong and occupied the area without fighting anyone. The troops inside could defend themselves from being overrun with minimum force and it would stop all these random gunfire deaths and beatings of poor conscripts in trucks.

I consider your 1st paragraph to be one of the most pathetic things that I have read on this forum. The only analogy that comes close is an oyster bitching about how confining it's shell has become. I sincerely hope that at some stage in your life you need the assistance of a police officer, and that he tells you to fight your own battles.

PS No, I am not nor ever have been a police officer.

I actually consider the 2nd paragraph less accurate and agree with the 1st paragraph.

Edited May 15, 2010 by JRinger

[noahvail]

From the news clippings forum:

THE NATION: Nuttawut called for ceasefire. He said at least 7 more people have been killed today.

[landofthefree]

Quit your crying Farang.

You do not like the fight, Thailand does not care what you think.

You want cheap women and cheap beer, go somewhere else.

Thailand has a major fight on its hands and your nonsense about hating this group or that is dull.

Reds will win.

It might be in one week or 1 year or 3 years but they will win.

People who do not run when shot at are highly motivated. The Reds

Since most in the military are Reds, it is only a matter of time before the entire government regime collapses.

Bye Bye old way and hello new.

Quit your Red propoganda BS, farang.

Those "people who do not run when shot at" are mostly highly high on Ya Baa and/or sloshed on Sang Som and other cheap hooch!

Also highly high on Thaksin's paychecks and promises of more moolah when their bloddletting achieves what Tacky wants!

Also, of course,they're highly stoopid and highly brainwashed by deceitful, power-hungry cowards that are their so-called "leaders"!!!

Yeah! ... and he won't tell us where the cheap beer is either!

Selfish Bugger!

...........and also where the cheap women are, mine costs me a small fortune, mind you she's quite cute!

[jcbangkok]

UN will send Troops in soon to stop the Government killing civilians.

LMAO

[GAS]

I just went up to Rajprasong if anyone starts an eyewitness thread...have a few pics from the phone as well.

[pornsasi]

Ahhhh but Jerry isn't for peace. Pornsasi is creating a strawman argument. Jerry has excused the violence on the part of the reds as part of "negotiation" and speaks of "PEACE" only when the violence and violent rhetoric of the reds comes back on the reds.

Face it --- the reds in BKK have been preaching violence from before the BKK rally began in March. Their leaders called for everything from burning the NACC down, to burning ALL of BKK down before a single shot was fired. They called for violence from BEFORE the state of Emergency. They attacked 1st Regiment and Thaicom with weapons BEFORE the government responded with any force. Jerry excused every event. He's not for peace, he's for Red peace.

A peaceful protest would come into BKK unarmed .... maybe even violate the law (civil disobedience) by camping in a major area like Rachprasong. They would sit down and let the police haul them off one by one and keep sending people in to get arrested. They would make PEACEFUL statements not violent statements.

That just isn't the Reds.

The reds have needed violence from the beginning to try and force a change in government. They instigated the violence on Apr 10th. They are armed. They aren't open to Negotiation and never have been. Thaksin needs new elections NOW. Thaksin is controlling what the reds do. (Check with Sae Daeng's public statements back when he was making them!)

BTW --- I am for Peace. That means the reds go home or disarm and move to a place that it is legal to protest in.

You are only for peace if it suits your political masters .

No proof that the reds instigated violence on the 10th April , someone else did , I am not saying the legal soldiers

You and I should wait for the result of an independant investigation .

The PM created violence by renegating on his roadmap , not arresting Sae Daeng and Arisman

Oh yes the red instigated violence , even if so they did not kill anyone ,

10 deads all of them civilians , not soldiers .

Protest where , on an offshore oil rig ?

I was for the PM roadmap but now my views on the PM are rather downgraded

Get a rest ...

[Roadman]

Ahhhh but Jerry isn't for peace. Pornsasi is creating a strawman argument. Jerry has excused the violence on the part of the reds as part of "negotiation" and speaks of "PEACE" only when the violence and violent rhetoric of the reds comes back on the reds.

Face it --- the reds in BKK have been preaching violence from before the BKK rally began in March. Their leaders called for everything from burning the NACC down, to burning ALL of BKK down before a single shot was fired. They called for violence from BEFORE the state of Emergency. They attacked 1st Regiment and Thaicom with weapons BEFORE the government responded with any force. Jerry excused every event. He's not for peace, he's for Red peace.

A peaceful protest would come into BKK unarmed .... maybe even violate the law (civil disobedience) by camping in a major area like Rachprasong. They would sit down and let the police haul them off one by one and keep sending people in to get arrested. They would make PEACEFUL statements not violent statements.

That just isn't the Reds.

The reds have needed violence from the beginning to try and force a change in government. They instigated the violence on Apr 10th. They are armed. They aren't open to Negotiation and never have been. Thaksin needs new elections NOW. Thaksin is controlling what the reds do. (Check with Sae Daeng's public statements back when he was making them!)

BTW --- I am for Peace. That means the reds go home or disarm and move to a place that it is legal to protest in.

Well said and I fully agree.

[mccw]

sweet - way to align yourselves with a group using elderly woman and children as human shields. Hey shouldn't the "leaders" of your side be turning themselves in today?

Human shields are people that are neutral civilians and used by terrorists (i mean real terrorists) for protection .

Those women and elderly are not neutral , they are protesting on their own free will .

Nobody force them . This is a popular protest by people , and people do not only include

male 19-25 years old

Please cut the BS

how many of the children in there choose or even understand why they are there?

[seahorse]

This is a photo of a ten year old boy shot last night, a sober reminder to all those praying for a crackdown what it eventually leads to.

http://tweetphoto.com/22448632

This is a article on the shooting unfortunately in Thai

http://www.dailynews.co.th/newstartpage/in...contentId=65910

It's also a sober reminder to the drunk drivers speeding towards army checkpoints with kids in the car.

Get the women and children out of there!

Later reports are the child was a bystander.. Not in the car..

Army shooting wildly.. clipped 2 people OUTSIDE the vehicle !!

Why was a ten year old boy near a war zone after midnight? Whoever his parents are, they are irresponsible.

[agord]

UN will send Troops in soon to stop the Government killing civilians.

doubt it. Government attemptimg to breakup an ILLEGAL occupation of it's largest capitol by a group of terrorist. Welcome the UN btw as the first thing they would demand is for red shirts to go home.

[Who, me ?]

Need to stop replying and encouraging you and your ilk.

Andrew,

In all my time at Thai Visa I have only ever placed one person on IGNORE. I now have two people on the list. I would strongly encourage everyone to place this person on IGNORE, eventually he will realise nobody is interested in his half truths, propaganda & forum nonesense (THEN hopefully he will go and play in the traffic lights).

Excellent idea !!!

[mommysboy]

UN will send Troops in soon to stop the Government killing civilians.

LMAO

Better than having it shot off

[jcbangkok]

From the news clippings forum:

THE NATION: Nuttawut called for ceasefire. He said at least 7 more people have been killed today.

A day late and a dollar short demand from somebody who has proven they cannot be trusted and is unreasonable. But no surprise here since the reds have heard their death knell

[noahvail]

UN will send Troops in soon to stop the Government killing civilians.

That's really not how the UN works....sigh.....

First a motion must be put up by a country's representative.

Then debate.

Then more debate.

Then a vote.

Then a vote of the security council.

"Soon" could easily account to many months.

And when they come in, they come as peacekeepers - to stop the killing from both sides.

edit...forgot to enter last line

Edited May 15, 2010 by noahvail

[rogerx007]

UN will send Troops in soon to stop the Government killing civilians.

doubt it. Government attemptimg to breakup an ILLEGAL occupation of it's largest capitol by a group of terrorist. Welcome the UN btw as the first thing they would demand is for red shirts to go home.

"of its largest capitol" .... isnt bangkok the only capital...or they lied to me...

[jcbangkok]

I just went up to Rajprasong if anyone starts an eyewitness thread...have a few pics from the phone as well.

Yes eye witness accounts from obsesses people who have no issues with breaking the law would be a great source of information.

[seahorse]

Quit your crying Farang.

You do not like the fight, Thailand does not care what you think.

You want cheap women and cheap beer, go somewhere else.

/quote]

Please don't judge other people by your own standards.

[AlbinoAsian]

Quesion: Anyone know whats happening with the Police at the moment, are they still involved in the conflicts? sided with the reds? or have they gotten out?

[LikeHeat]

Abhisit is an honest man who has bent over backwards to avoid conflict yet the psychopathic leaders that manipulate the rank and file Red Shirt Brigade were and still are bent on extreme violence e and hatred from the start as their rhetoric so clearly showed and indeed still shows..

Twenty years here and Abhisit is the most progressive Prime minister to date willing to listen to all and his administration has implemented measures to assist the less well off in Thai society and indeed would have done more if it wasn't for the Red Shirt Brigaded actions to stall further measures as it was damaging thug Thaksin his family and their acolytes money stealing and law manipulation to yet further boost their fortunes at the expense of the majority.

The guy is an incompetent, irresponsible leader that has just brought the country to the edge of civil war, due to his impatience, frustration and unwillingness to show flexibility in negotiations. How much blood needs to be spilled under this idiots leadership before you tell him to resign ?

The blood lust on this forum is disgusting.

Way off base here can you imagine any other leader being in charge now, say Thaksin? If this was reversed and Thaksin was in power I would put the number of casualties in the hundreds already. You are a fool to think that Abhisit hasn't bent over backwards to give these idiots every possible way out and each time they have spit in the face of him and the rest of Thailand.

YOu are the one way off base.

Thaksin is calling for returning to the negotiation table. I would much rather have Thaksin calling the shots than this braindead moron Abhisit.

There you go again Russell, with a half truth covering a lie. Thaksin is calling the shots and has been along, at least for the Red Terrorists. It might not be going exactly his way, but he keeps the Terrorists going. All he has to do is order them to stop and go home, and this will all be over. As it is, expect a few more Red Terrorist leaders to get shot. It save Thaksin a pile of cash, and cash is king.

Oh yeah, in any crime they say to follow the money to find the perp. Do you suppose any money is traceable to Thaksin?

[agord]

UN will send Troops in soon to stop the Government killing civilians.

doubt it. Government attemptimg to breakup an ILLEGAL occupation of it's largest capitol by a group of terrorist. Welcome the UN btw as the first thing they would demand is for red shirts to go home.

"of its largest capitol" .... isnt bangkok the only capital...or they lied to me...

too lazt to go back an edit - *largest city and capitol