More Bloodshed In Bangkok As Red Siege Continues

[321niti123]

Anyone hear news of Curfew being announced???

Edited May 16, 2010 by 321niti123

[Abrak]

I simply do not understand what the military are doing.

They are a trained military force. Surely they can achieve a strategic objective against a rabble.

They have made no attempt to close down the protest and seem to be playing deadly games with the more ignorant and aggressive but probably not well armed protestors on the edge of their encampment. Is the idea to starve them to death?

If you insist on shooting Thais at least achieve something.

I am beginning to wonder if someone isnt playing a game with peoples lives..

We know the Rabid Red leadership would happily let their supporters bleed for media exposure.. But the weakness of the army, the total lack of APC's and tanks, the lack of water cannons, the weakness in giving back already won ground. The whole basic premise of 'just set up sandbags and take pot shots' at Thais.. Surely they are not so lacking in leadership and abilities.

All this makes me wonder.. Are there other hidden forces, within the military side, who benefit from this situation escalating / continueing ?? Who benefit from lives lost on all sides ??

Do I just second guess everything too much.

Actually I agree with you 100%.

It is simply not believable that they could be so incompetent. So one should assume they have an agenda.

[FarangCravings]

I have NO DOUBT that the military will win with there muderous tactics however I dont think this will go away it will turn out like it is in the south with the Muslims it will become a guerilla war with bombs and attacks if teh PM does not hold elections.

They will just go underground and continue the fight using guerilla tactics.

The only way is to hold elections ASAP

Personally I think you underestimate the PM or possibly confuse him with the incompetent military.

If he survives in power I think he will rapidly call elections. As you say it is the only sensible way. He withdrew his offer of an early election solely on the basis it was conditional on the protestors ending their protest. He made that offer (which in some ways made him look weak) so that he was in a strong position to act if it was refused. When the Reds go back he will offer them an election again and my guess is that he will win.

Abhisit is a very smart guy. Whether he can actually survive this whole farce and remain PM is anyone's guess.

I agree with you what I dont agree with is the indiscriminate killing that going on by the military who are completely incompetant

[ratcatcher]

I have NO DOUBT that the military will win with there muderous tactics however I dont think this will go away it will turn out like it is in the south with the Muslims it will become a guerilla war with bombs and attacks if teh PM does not hold elections.

They will just go underground and continue the fight using guerilla tactics.

The only way is to hold elections ASAP

So you suggest elections ASAP?

Where have you been for the last week?

Abhisit offered elections on Nov 14th. Thaksin declined the offer.

And if you think the country is prepared for immediate elections or ASAP you must be short a few marbles.

The reds don't want elections, they want Thaksin back so he can get his or the Thai people's money he stole.

[Jerrytheyoung]

This is the demonstration of what I have stated already several times : Militias are unacceptable in democratic Countries: it brings the level of violence to the highest during social unrests. More it can jeopardise the future of a Country. And if my numerous american friend of this forum continue to think about more tough and military actions, just remember Mogadishio, Somalia.... Militias are a Cancer (Yellows, Newin, Pattayas, Ronin...any militia)

In case of crushing the reds, you should see the consequences on the economy: Spain during Franco period, has been sulked during years in spite marketing efforts. most of europeans avoiding Spain as tourist destination and spanish products.

Anything which can bring Parties to the table of negotiation without conditions is welcome.

Quite true the Reds have created an illegal militia and are using it to try and bring down the government.

This is of course unacceptable. And the level of force they have is beyond the powers of police to control.

That the PTP opposition party is check and jowl with the red leaders, and sharing stages while the most

virulent lies being told. This shows they are utterly compromised and incapable of legitimate governance.

They have shot off both feet up to the knees.

-------------------

PS Jerry, sulked is not the right word to use.

You have used it twice recently, but it doesn't fit your point.

I know english is not your first language.

<h2 class="me">sulk –verb (used without object)</h2>1. to remain silent or hold oneself aloof in a sullen, ill-humored, or offended mood:

Promise me that you won't sulk if I want to leave the party early.

–noun2. a state or fit of sulking. 3. sulks, ill-humor shown by sulking: to be in the sulks. 4. Also, sulker. a person who sulks.

Spain has not been sitting like a child that didn't get some candy....

Try:

'Spain during (or since) the Franco period, had been "avoided / ignored / marginalized / diminished /

during years in spite marketing efforts...'

But, I think more recently the issue for travelers has been the Basques bombing indescriminately.

Illegal militias again... And note Spain and France's responce to them has not been unviolent; no choice.

And the Islamic train bomb a few years back too.

Franco from 40 years back is not near the issue it used to be, except to old people,

but his tenure DID greatly retard Spain's progress relative to Europe.

Thanks Animatic for your help on the language part : I will say Spain has been marginalised during Franco reign".

However, Spain is a very nice Country, I have a spanish ancestor several generations ago, I can speak and read spanish (a little) and I have been working there during a couple of years. I disagree on your interpretation of the Basque issue: it is in fact very parallel to the Southern unrest. Basques have their own language which is classified as "turco Altaic", same group than Turkish, Finnish, and Korean, Japanese (derivative of Korean) languages. So, People very different from most of Spanish (latin language), and maybe you do not know, but Basques are also living in the area of Bayonne, Biarritz in France, the Basques are present on both sides of the Border. Similar situation than Malays in Southern Thailand.

More the unrest has started when the Basque Parliament has lost some prerogatives in a Centralisation attempt by Madrid Government. (Still a similarity with Southern unrest). In France, because there has been a policy of assimilation, the unrest is limited to a very small group.

That is the reason why France and Spain has common issues with the Basques. But the effect on tourism and industry are limited. Because the Eastern (Barcelona to Malaga) coastline and Southwest coast (Sevilla to Gilbraltar) are the main spanish touristic areas.

Basque area is not so developped.

In any case, the Basque issue is loosing steam progressively. It is much more similar to the Southern unrest than to the red Shirt one.

Edited May 16, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[473geo]

I simply do not understand what the military are doing.

They are a trained military force. Surely they can achieve a strategic objective against a rabble.

They have made no attempt to close down the protest and seem to be playing deadly games with the more ignorant and aggressive but probably not well armed protestors on the edge of their encampment. Is the idea to starve them to death?

If you insist on shooting Thais at least achieve something.

I am beginning to wonder if someone isnt playing a game with peoples lives..

We know the Rabid Red leadership would happily let their supporters bleed for media exposure.. But the weakness of the army, the total lack of APC's and tanks, the lack of water cannons, the weakness in giving back already won ground. The whole basic premise of 'just set up sandbags and take pot shots' at Thais.. Surely they are not so lacking in leadership and abilities.

All this makes me wonder.. Are there other hidden forces, within the military side, who benefit from this situation escalating / continueing ?? Who benefit from lives lost on all sides ??

Do I just second guess everything too much.

FINALLY someone that is seeing what i see

And that is the problem Abhisit has encountered.....too many factions in his own camp looking out for their own interests.......sad

[lannarebirth]

Personally I think you underestimate the PM or possibly confuse him with the incompetent military.

If he survives in power I think he will rapidly call elections. As you say it is the only sensible way. He withdrew his offer of an early election solely on the basis it was conditional on the protestors ending their protest. He made that offer (which in some ways made him look weak) so that he was in a strong position to act if it was refused. When the Reds go back he will offer them an election again and my guess is that he will win.

Abhisit is a very smart guy. Whether he can actually survive this whole farce and remain PM is anyone's guess.

Agree to all. Miles to go still.

[whiterussian]

Anyone hear news of Curfew being announced???

Yes the supreme leader Mr A will only shoot those remaining after women and children have left the red camp. We should be able to resume normal shopping activities by wednesday at Central World shopping mall.

Yeehaaww! Turkey Shoot!

Lucky there are no splits in the military/police, as these kind of things would be likely to divide the top brass... might even make some worry about what happens when and if the electorate vote in a 'red' politician come election day.

veen_NT CRES ended its announcement. Curfew details will be announced at 2.30pm.

Edited May 16, 2010 by whiterussian

[noel2499rk]

Does anybody know what the military casualties are for the last 3 days, from what I can gleam it appears to be one injured soldier, I could be wrong and if I am I'm sure someone will let me know.

[seahorse]

Google are sponsering these terrorists with google ads on their website, we can stop them from using this forum, just report this link to google and spread the word to the media that goolge supports these thugs, they will be stopped and fall into worldwide isolation.

http://www.saedang.freeforums.org

One can also go to http://www.freeforums.org/contact.php and write a complaint. Their legal section clearly states that their forums are not to be used for these type of things. While I support the freedom of speech, I do not support terroristic activities which this site is spewing.

i have done both, i urge others to do the same.

Done.

[chrislarsson]

"We are told by @thaicam that fresh supplies of water & ice being brought into Ratchaprasong now. /via @RichardBarrow"

Can someone explain how this is possible? They suddenly invented portal-technology?

many small sois to scamper through, but wont b able to keep thousands supplied for long. the writings on the wall, this last sad spasm of violence is only turning more people against them

Can they use the canal as well?

I'm afraid we are only seeing the beginning, not the last spasms. No dead soldiers yet just sounds too easy. The reds have not used any heavy arms yet. I hope I'm wrong, but I think the real fighting won't begin until the army starts the crackdown of Ratchaprasong.

[mccw]

I am in Bangkok and have been throughout these protests. For people outside the country looking in it is difficult to understand the situation. It is easy to sympathize with poor people protesting for a better life. That is not the case here in Bangkok. Poor people have been paid to protest and are being used as human shields to protect militants in the Red movement. These protests are controlled by former PM Thaksin in an effort to overthrow the current government which is legitimate and elected. Perhaps more so than the former PPP government which was disbanded due to electoral fraud.

I am dismayed to see the foreign press portraying the victims of the current voilence as civilians. It is true that they have taken off their red uniforms but within the protesters there are armed terrorists fighting a guerilla style war. They are not civilians in the true sense. Everyone in Bangkok understands which streets are currently restricted by the security forces. The only reason protesters venture into those areas is to attack the soldiers. Using slingshots, M79 grenades, moltov cocktails, guns, and other weapons they are fighting with the army. If they were not attempting to breach the government barricades they would not be in immediate danger.

Journalists have been injured, they are going into dangerous areas and are difficult to discern from the Red fighters who have no uniform. Shooting journalists intentionally and blaming the army would certainly be in the protesters interests to bring international condemnation. Journalists in the area are often under the protection of the army, and should use their own judgement as to whether it is safe to enter areas with gun battles ongoing.

Last night with 2km of my home well outside the protest zone there was a grenade attack at the Bangkok Bank at Khae Rai, there is a secondary protest at the Thaicom offices less than one km from this attack. Even outside the downtown there is danger for the true civilians of Bangkok, and that danger will not diminish until the protests end.

The leaders of the Red protest can at any time order the end of the protest and allow the people to return to their homes. This would be followed immediately by a ceasefire from the army. As long as they remain calling for the violent overthrow of the government people are in danger. Criminals should put their arms down first, not the police.

quite true except that there are many brainwashed aswell as money suckers. they need putting in theur place

[LuckyLew]

ABSOLUTE SHIIIIIT legally elected by who ? NOT THE PEOPLE

The real world is getting a very fair view of whats happening a CLEAR PICTURE of the military firing on unarmed civilians they even get to see the leader of the reds Assasinated by the goverment while being interviewed by NY times

I think they are getting a very accurate picture

Congratulations to you

You are now 100% brainswashed

[FarangCravings]

I have NO DOUBT that the military will win with there muderous tactics however I dont think this will go away it will turn out like it is in the south with the Muslims it will become a guerilla war with bombs and attacks if teh PM does not hold elections.

They will just go underground and continue the fight using guerilla tactics.

The only way is to hold elections ASAP

and when they loose?

Or Win

The its the yellow shirts time to take over Bangkok again and the aiport but of course they wont be prosecuted withing 24 hours and jailed like the reds

Complete double standard and exactly part of the problem

Edited May 16, 2010 by FarangCravings

[kissdani]

THE NATION: RT @rrystrom:My mother-in-law said pppl wanted 2 bring home their children&old ppl from rajprasong yday but was refused 2leave by r-guards..

Exactly as I have predicted and written before. This is a hostage situation.

Entirely believable based on previous reports of shockingly thuggish red shirt behavior. Also, truly sickening. Just like Al Queada, using innocents as shields and their deaths as propaganda.

Just send an SMS or twitter something to The Nation, if you are good enough it gets published.

And if they let the kids walking trough the live firing zone you can become agitated again.

BTW: You need a new record.

How about' they are like the Martians, attacking the White House and assassinate President Jack Nicholson Schmidt?

[pimay11]

FarangCravings:

Nobody said he was ordered killed but he was killed nevertheless by the military end of story

Please provide proof of your accusations by any credible means to insure your fragile credibility.

[animatic]

Are you blind you can clearly see a sniper with scopes taking pot shots maybe he was the one who killed that poor 10 year old yesterday

COLD BLOODED MURDER the Thai Goverment should be ashamed

At least the world is seeing the thai goverment for what they are MURDERERS

You are both blind and seeing things that are not there.

There is NO snipers in this clip.

There are some soldiers that fire their shotguns with rubber bullets and then later a marksman using his scoped M-16. NOT a sniper.

And there is NO EVIDENCE or even fantasies that the 10 year old boy was aimed upon or any other child for that matter.

You are truly a sad piece of work.

You didn't happen to be on stage yesterday?

What do you see from 53 on ??

Or are you going to dispute 'sniper' for military sharp shooter now ??

Stop the hyperbole. Yes that is a sniper with scope and spotter.

No doubt they are looking for people with M79 launchers,

or captured M16's shooting at soldiers. As the should be.

BUT that has nothing to do with the childing being down range

from where the van trying to ram the blockade was shot up.

Sadly the child was collateral damage because he ignored warnings to leave the area.

Saying he was targeted by soldiers is a vicious and useless lie, since the truth IS known.

[LivinLOS]

I simply do not understand what the military are doing.

They are a trained military force. Surely they can achieve a strategic objective against a rabble.

They have made no attempt to close down the protest and seem to be playing deadly games with the more ignorant and aggressive but probably not well armed protestors on the edge of their encampment. Is the idea to starve them to death?

If you insist on shooting Thais at least achieve something.

I am beginning to wonder if someone isnt playing a game with peoples lives..

We know the Rabid Red leadership would happily let their supporters bleed for media exposure.. But the weakness of the army, the total lack of APC's and tanks, the lack of water cannons, the weakness in giving back already won ground. The whole basic premise of 'just set up sandbags and take pot shots' at Thais.. Surely they are not so lacking in leadership and abilities.

All this makes me wonder.. Are there other hidden forces, within the military side, who benefit from this situation escalating / continueing ?? Who benefit from lives lost on all sides ??

Do I just second guess everything too much.

Actually I agree with you 100%.

It is simply not believable that they could be so incompetent. So one should assume they have an agenda.

Its like areas with an overpass, which the military take, gain total control of the area, and clear it of visible redshirts.. Then they give up the overpass, leave the commanding position, and the reds come steaming back in.. This kind of event has now happened over and over for days, it seems to be beyond simple incompetence ??

Are we simply watching and reacting to a very elaborate and bloody fascade, that while escalating plays right into certain hands (hardliners / Tackys / ???).. Undermining the government by its own inability.

I mean.. 900 generals.. Not one leader ??

[iciparis]

Thai army snipers in action

If that are snipers, you better go back to K-1 you Mo##@n

Sorry, i am not a soldier, i have no experience how to kill people or be trained in that business.

But i guess these rifle and these soldiers can kill people with it, right?

So then every soldier is a sniper, half of thailands motorcycle drivers and farmers are Snipers???

Your even worse then I thought

[Oberkommando]

Sadly the child was collateral damage because he ignored warnings to leave the area.

Is a child of 10 years old able to reason enough to heed those warnings?

[TAWP]

Nvm, no point...talking to a wall

**post removed

Edited May 16, 2010 by TAWP

[Robby nz]

It has been posted on facebook that the red leaders have been telling their "guards" that it isnt the Thai army they are fighting but armys from Burma and Cambodia so its all right to go out and kill them.

No wont post a link because its someones personal page and they could get harrased.

[LivinLOS]

Thai army snipers in action

If that are snipers, you better go back to K-1 you Mo##@n

Sorry, i am not a soldier, i have no experience how to kill people or be trained in that business.

But i guess these rifle and these soldiers can kill people with it, right?

So then every soldier is a sniper, half of thailands motorcycle drivers and farmers are Snipers???

Your even worse then I thought

No the two (spotter and shooter) from about 53 onwards.. Those are snipers / sharp shooters.

[asiawatcher]

I have NO DOUBT that the military will win with there muderous tactics however I dont think this will go away it will turn out like it is in the south with the Muslims it will become a guerilla war with bombs and attacks if teh PM does not hold elections.

They will just go underground and continue the fight using guerilla tactics.

The only way is to hold elections ASAP

What? and the reds aren't murderous? Overwhelmingly and in evidence of verbal, written and photographically - they are! Elections? Hardly! The Reds HAD won the battle, they achieved a dissolution, they achieved new elections and then they screwed it up. So the last two days have shown real intent. Destruction of public property, total disregard of law and order and who will be held accountable? Not the deposed former PM as he has gone silent, disassociating himself from the mob and removing his family from Thailand as a precaution. No the stage stooges and the militia within the Reds will keep using women and children and excuses to fight and cause mayhem. They had their chance, they did not take it and now the Govt has no choice.

They still have a choice to leave so don't start accusing military of being murderous when they stand by and watch morons bring in tyres in pick ups, steal water trucks and destroy garbage trucks, trash phone boxes and lay siege to essential services such as hospitals. You must be blind, have an IQ the size of your shoe or live on the stage and have subliminally succumbed to the blasted rhetoric.

The murder you are watching is that of Thailand and you are a total fool to think 'elections' will solve it.

[FarangCravings]

Sadly the child was collateral damage because he ignored warnings to leave the area.

Is a child of 10 years old able to reason enough to heed those warnings?

According t most of the idiots on here yes

If the Military had any ideas what they were doing they would actually block off the area and use Concrete bollards to avoid incidents of anyone trying to drive through lets face ti they have had over 2 months to get organized but instead they choose to open fire at stone weilding idiots.

Where are the water canons and normal tactics in a situation like this lots of tear gas and water canons which can knock you right on your ass real quick followed by arrests.

No they prefer to Kill them instead

[whiterussian]

The murder you are watching is that of Thailand and you are a total fool to think 'elections' will solve it.

So you think the junta should have power until Thaksin dies of old age? - or until the red homelands are smart enough to vote for the correct party?

Elections are the best way yet... every 4 years 'they' get a chance to be booted out of power.

The current govt is a junta, who jackbooted their way into power... and are now trying to find an excuse to stay in charge.

But 'operation save face' must continue. the 'seige' has lasted a whole 2 days now. Enough patience... get shootin'.. yeeehaaww! Waco style!

Edited May 16, 2010 by whiterussian

[Haacker]

"Stop shooting, retreat and we can then negotiate," Natthawut said. Asked by a journalist why he was not ordering the red shirts to stop attacking first, he angrily retorted: "The killers must stop. You cannot possibly expect those being hunted to stop killing. It's as if the red shirts have been abandoned alone in the world."

Derrr, do you think that might be because the redshirts are in the minority and because of the actions they have taken???

LOL i was about to comment about the same thing...

just go home... no one is stopping you going home... Yes you've been abandoned, no one wants to be associated with what you are doing!!! Democracy, yes.. violence, no....

They need to go in with dirty big armoured water tanks and just ram through all the blockades... THey need to hose the crap out of that stage too...

How about putting some red die in the water so we know who is who after it over.

[animatic]

I simply do not understand what the military are doing.

They are a trained military force. Surely they can achieve a strategic objective against a rabble.

They have made no attempt to close down the protest and seem to be playing deadly games with the more ignorant and aggressive but probably not well armed protestors on the edge of their encampment. Is the idea to starve them to death?

If you insist on shooting Thais at least achieve something.

The troops are trying to contain the protest, and haven't moved into the area where women and children are being held. Those fighting with the army on the perimeter are putting themselves at risk. If they were peacefully sitting at Rajasaprong they would have no fear of being shot. Due to their actions they cannot truly be classified as civilans, they are combatants.

Having Nutthawat plead for negotiations is really pathetic. It would just be a stalling tactic like last time to give them time to rearm and resupply with no reasonable expectation that they would follow through with any negotiated settlement. Total surrender by the reds is the only way to avoid further bloodshed.

No doubt by containg the protest this draws out the most violent reds,

away from children and women AKA red siding hostages or shields,

and the wild ones lose the fight, this cuts down the numbers of most nutty violent reds.

When time comes to move into encampment those loonies will be a diminished force to contend with.

It is not the army's attacking them, they attack the army in a rage, rage makes you less tactically aware.

Any one who moves out to attack the stationary army is doing so of their own volition, thus fair targets.

Stupid zealotry for sure.

[timekeeper]

The murder you are watching is that of Thailand and you are a total fool to think 'elections' will solve it.

So you think the junta should have power until Thaksin dies of old age? - or until the red homelands are smart enough to vote for the correct party?

Elections are the best way yet... every 4 years 'they' get a chance to be booted out of power.

But 'operation save face' must continue. the 'seige' has lasted a whole 2 days now. Enough patience... get shootin'.. yeeehaaww! Waco style!

Thaksin won't die of old age..........

[KhunVee]

Google are sponsering these terrorists with google ads on their website, we can stop them from using this forum, just report this link to google and spread the word to the media that goolge supports these thugs, they will be stopped and fall into worldwide isolation.

http://www.saedang.freeforums.org

One can also go to http://www.freeforums.org/contact.php and write a complaint. Their legal section clearly states that their forums are not to be used for these type of things. While I support the freedom of speech, I do not support terroristic activities which this site is spewing.

i have done both, i urge others to do the same.

Done.

seems like they're offline already