Thailand - Rivals Must Think Of People's Lives First

[webfact]

Rivals must think of people's lives first

By The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Rajdamnoen, then Silom, and now Rajprasong. The wounds are getting deeper and deeper and no matter how this ends, it is never going to really end.

The blame game yesterday between the government and the red shirts confirms as much as Thailand continues its tail-spin toward what was unthinkable just two months ago.

But first the bleeding has to be stopped. For every new death and injury, the feelings on both sides become more estranged and festered.

For every new shot fired and grenade launched, the country's fragile harmony edges closer to the brink of total collapse.

The red shirts demanded the government stop shooting immediately.

That was followed by Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva saying on TV last night the only way to solve the crisis was for the protesters to end their two-month rally.

The demands were accompanied with each side's own version of the fight - one featuring troops on a shooting spree against unarmed civilians and the other blaming armed elements for a heavy casualty toll.

Abhisit said the government "can't turn back". The red shirts said they would fight to the death.

How Thailand has arrived at this point after at least two great opportunities to achieve peace will remain a big question mark.

It was only about a week ago that compromise was within reach, that protesters looked a few hours away from packing up and everyone seemed to be preparing for a general election late this year.

What went wrong, however, is not as important as what can still go much more wrong. Events over the past few days have galvanised both sides, whereas now is the time for sympathy and even humility.

The "come and shoot us" mentality as displayed by red leaders Jatuporn Promphan and Nutthawut Saikua is thoughtless, if not selfish.

This is not the time to win ideologically. This is the time to save lives of people, who have for so long shown unconditional faith in them.

The government, on the other hand, has dangerously blurred the line in its sudden resolve to end it all quickly.

The red movement may have the support of armed factions but efforts to differentiate militants from innocent protesters have been awkward at best and sloppy at worst.

We have been left to wonder whether all appropriate measures have been explored and attempted before the out-of-the-blue blockade and abrupt application of pressure.

It appeared that the government, which wasted almost 60 days failing to implement strict checkpoints and containment, was making up for lost time, and clumsily so.

Both sides have talked about saving lives, but they have never seem to mean it. Personal egos and vested interests still dictate events while compassion and sense of nationhood have gone missing.

The rivals have no choice but to resume talks and this time they must do what they have never done - stop thinking about themselves.

-- The Nation 2010-05-16

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[iciparis]

Government shouldn't and can't turn back!!

Letting these looneys have another go to create chaos and anarchy in the future whould be a big mistake as then the armed fight will continue for years to come.

They must eliminate these rotten elements as soon as posible to reduce our society from slipping into further chaos.

There are no innocent bystanders in this picture, if you were innocent then why try to cover your face, drive on your motorcycle(taxi) around with bottles filled of gasoline, bringing tyres to the fire, trowing rocks and use guns to armed forces.

If that's what people call innocent and the media like BBC and CNN brush this off just as little teasing of the troops there should not be any UN-tribunal in the last 60 years cause then nothing has happened in this world.

There was no Rwanda,no sierra leone, blood diamands are just a lie,no iddi amin,no zimbabwe,no south-africa( the Dutch did not create Apartheid, you even can't find it in any dictionary), nothing happened in Argentina,Chili,Cuba,Vietnam,laos,burma,cambodia, etc. Allcountries where elements like Thaksin,Chavalit and their clan where the cause of the problem.

But now they do not own the regular army so they let uneducated,unknowing people be their paid army to fight for their assets.

sorry for not stating an opinion in this comment.

sorry for just giving undeniable facts

Have a nice Sunday in Montenegro Thaksin, enjoy Cumming Chavalit, buy somthing nice in Singapora Potjaman, and please do not turn in your grave dear Marcos!!

Edited May 16, 2010 by iciparis

[moetownblues]

Violence breeds Violence

[LikeHeat]

Weakness gets you disrespect.

[richieudon]

Both sides have talked about saving lives, but they have never seem to mean it. Personal egos and vested interests still dictate events while compassion and sense of nationhood have gone missing.

TiT

[iciparis]

Weakness gets you disrespect.

In this tragedy unfortunatly I couldn't agree more with you.

[iciparis]

Both sides have talked about saving lives, but they have never seem to mean it. Personal egos and vested interests still dictate events while compassion and sense of nationhood have gone missing.

TiT

Nationhood in my (this) country has not been there for decades, remembering that Thaksin and Sonthi(PAD) used to be partners, as well as Chamlong and many more, but rich will aleays want more, they can not stop the greed, that made the division what it is today.

People like Thaksin do not want the poor to be educated, because educated people can think for them selves, are not easy to control and manipulate.

By keeping them poor but give them handouts in excange for votes they are easier to control.

Still now that's what you see in the streets, the poor trowing bottles gasoline, while the guilty ones go on holiday to Singapore, Cumming,Hong-kong en stay in Dubai or Europe, and let the poor get out of contol against their fellow people.

The soldiers do not want to shoot people from their own roots, but if you pledged an oath to your country you have to, or you will be killed by an angry mob like what we saw last days.

[jayjay0]

Words are cheap any one can say save lives is the most important thing.

What I would like to hear from these people is a realistic answer to this problem. We know from there actions of the past that the red shirts will not negotiate so what is left.

Are you people saying stop the fighting and just abandon the red shirts camp area for ever.. Give them what they want. Let them run the country. The thousands of people who have lost there job because the red shirts are camping out in there back yard don't count. They have no rights.

What are you saying tell us give us the benefit of your moralistic wisdom.

[Steely Dan]

Just in case it has been overlooked Abhisit offered early elections Nov 14th and a roadmap to reconciliation, this was rejected by the red shirt leaders on the pretext that Suthep had to be arrested to face charges over 10th April. There were 23 killed on the 10th April, a death toll which was exceeded over the last two days. After initially making some constructive noises about Abhisits offer the moderate reds seem to have disappeared. Where are they? Are they still alive? It would appear the red hard liners are in charge and they are following Thaksin's orders, which seem to be to spread anarchy, despite his weasel words Seh Daeng spelled out that Thaksin did not want the protests to stop.

Abhisit has no choice now except to dismantle the capacity of the extremists to fight. To do this I think a period of martial law and curfews is needed. Normal democratic niceties should not be given to those who seek to trample all over the democratic rights of others so every demonstrator should be summarily carted off the jail and not for six months. Looters should expect military justice and those seeking to start new protests should be dealt with severely too.

The longer anarchy is allowed to continue the more likely it is to spread, the time for pussyfooting around is over.

[Robby nz]

What do these red types think they will achieve by trashing the city, wrecking the BTS, throwing bombs at police stations, trashing phone boxes, burning trucks, etc.

What is their point of carrying on now they have lost through their own stupidity yet they come out and try to fight the army.

[MCos]

You say "sudden resolve to end it all quickly". Have you not noticed that the Red Mob has been in place for a couple of months now? I would have though the resolution has been anything but quick.

[jcbangkok]

No society can exist if laws regarding people rights to be secure in their possession are not upheld. The red mob has literally stolen billions of dollars worth of property from the people of Thailand.

Dealing with criminals who refuse the lawful orders of authorities is often not a pretty scene but this gov't has been beyond patient in their dealings.

This is not a political battle. It is about enforcing the law for the good of Thailand and its people.

[iciparis]

What do these red types think they will achieve by trashing the city, wrecking the BTS, throwing bombs at police stations, trashing phone boxes, burning trucks, etc.

What is their point of carrying on now they have lost through their own stupidity yet they come out and try to fight the army.

Their moto is" It's nice to be important, but it's important to be a fool"

[whybother]

Violence breeds Violence

Exactly. The reds preached violence from the start. The reds came "to burn Bangkok to the ground".

The reds stormed parliament. The reds stormed Thaicom. The reds threw grenades and molotov cocktails. The reds shot soldiers.

The reds are getting the violence that they have CONTINUOUSLY preached from the stage.

[Sisaketmike]

Violence breeds Violence

Nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced.

Albert Einstein.

Here's something you should see. A guy trying to help. He wasn't wearing a red shirt, even when it's red now.

The other photo is from a friend.

Edited May 16, 2010 by Sisaketmike

[Jerrytheyoung]

A lot of things to say:

1- We are on the verge of a Civil war and the Government should take Altitude; Unity on the Country is at risk, Institutions are at risk, important numbers of lives are at risk. The previous negotiation has obviously failed on the Amnesty Chapter (But it is only the emerging part of the iceberg, maybe some other reasons), the government has to make the concessions to bring eveytbody back to the table of discussion. Does not matter career of individuals in this situation: Abhisit may have to resign as part of the discussion if this bring back the Peace

2- I have several times underlined that the militias are unacceptable in democratic Countries: it brings the level of violence to the highest during social unrests. More it can jeopardise the future of a Country. And if my numerous american friend of this forum continue to think about more tough and military actions, just remember Mogadishio, Somalia.... Militias are a Cancer (Yellows, Nedwin, Pattayas, Ronin...any militia)

3- in case of crushing the reds, you should see the consequences on the economy: Spain during Franco period, has been sulked during years in spite marketing efforts. most of europeans avoiding Spain as tourist destination and spanish products.

Anything which can bring Parties to the table of negotiation without conditions is welcome.

Edited May 16, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[toenail]

I agree, the government cannot pull back. Jesus C****, the Reds have occupied the city for over 2 months--what other democracy would have allowed this to happen in their own turf? (And yes, because of the Thai's relaxed attitude towards large gatherings, now this has turned into a mess). The prime minister offered the Reds a plan which included a new electon. Abhisit got "into trouble" for bending down on this (from his groupies) but the Reds still refused. The government needs to show who has the power.

[perax]

The ones that I am concerned about are those who only read and don't post...the silent ones.

Why, don't you think enough bullshit has been spewed on this forum?

[passon]

Government shouldn't and can't turn back!!

Letting these looneys have another go to create chaos and anarchy in the future whould be a big mistake as then the armed fight will continue for years to come.

They must eliminate these rotten elements as soon as posible to reduce our society from slipping into further chaos.

There are no innocent bystanders in this picture, if you were innocent then why try to cover your face, drive on your motorcycle(taxi) around with bottles filled of gasoline, bringing tyres to the fire, trowing rocks and use guns to armed forces.

If that's what people call innocent and the media like BBC and CNN brush this off just as little teasing of the troops there should not be any UN-tribunal in the last 60 years cause then nothing has happened in this world.

There was no Rwanda,no sierra leone, blood diamands are just a lie,no iddi amin,no zimbabwe,no south-africa( the Dutch did not create Apartheid, you even can't find it in any dictionary), nothing happened in Argentina,Chili,Cuba,Vietnam,laos,burma,cambodia, etc. Allcountries where elements like Thaksin,Chavalit and their clan where the cause of the problem.

But now they do not own the regular army so they let uneducated,unknowing people be their paid army to fight for their assets.

sorry for not stating an opinion in this comment.

sorry for just giving undeniable facts

Have a nice Sunday in Montenegro Thaksin, enjoy Cumming Chavalit, buy somthing nice in Singapora Potjaman, and please do not turn in your grave dear Marcos!!

I find people such as yourself contributing to the problem. How do words like "looneys," "rotten elements," "uneducated, unknowing people," help the people you are describing find solutions to this tragedy? and how do ideas that have a summary solution; whereas you say, "you can't turn back...they must eliminate these...as soon as possible" prevent people from trusting others intentions? Many of the military are made up of the very people you say are uneducated and unknowing. All armies are used to protect assets, so irregardless of what examples you site about civil discord in the past, we are all dealing with the present. Insults predicated on arrogance is not the way any of us can rise above this ordeal. Killing fields and your idea of social genocide is not a solution. There is enough special interest on both sides of the equation, so everyone would be better served by setting aside their egos long enough to hopefully sit back down with an impartial mediator who can at least attempt to resolve this living tragedy. Let's not pretend to know what everyone is feeling; let's not pretend to know what each side really wants; let's not pretend to know how to end this confrontation, and lets not use language that is divisive and incendiary, because it serves no purpose here or anyplace else in the world. If we have anything to say, and we all do, that is part of our human nature to want to speak out, and to be heard, then let's deal with this from the side of our humanity that allows us to be compassionate, that allows us to be civil, and allows us to seek solutions through compromise. I live here too, and I find this entire situation to be upsetting, and I blow off steam just like I am sure so many of us here do; but, when I write, I write after I have calmed down so I can find my logical side and write from my heart instead of my brain. My families preacher always made the point every Sunday after each sermon to remind everyone if they had something nice to say, to please share their thoughts with him, and if they had something bad to say, to just shake his hand because it was a lot more comforting then watching someone shake their fist! Please chose your words carefully!

[Tod Daniels]

Just after the 'dog-n-pony show' televised 'negotiations' between the red-rabble leaders and the Demz, the redz could have played it up for a win and went home, but they were too worried about what would happen to them instead of worrying about the rank-n-file-protestors who are and still WILL be the real casualties in this mess.

Even AFTER the negotiations Abhisit came out with a firm a date of between the 15th-30th of September for a Lower House dissolution (which by constitutional law mandates 60 days to new elections), but that wasn't good enough either, and the red rabble leaders balked at ending this.

Then the redz demanded Suthep turn himself in, which he did THE VERY NEXT DAY! According to the reds it wasn't to the correct office (just a ploy to guarantee that if Suthep turned himself in and got bail, there'd be a precedent so the red leaders could do the same) and still again the red leaders balked at ending this.

The blame of this entire debacle must be piled at the feet of the red-rabble leaders (Natthawut, Suporn, Arisman, Kwanchai, and whack-job-Weng) . More moderate leaders in the red camp knew their objectives were achieved, but they were marginalized and sidelined from speaking on stage. (Anyone seen Veera Musikapong lately, despite Whack-job Weng's assertions he's still there? ) Seh Daeng was a very dangerous, and all too full of himself, total nut-case; thankfully for everyone, he’s out of the picture.

I don't see a way the Abhisit government could back down from this now. That would be condoning violent mob mentality as a valid way to force change. Sadly for the thais who are still to die, it's gotta run it's course.

While I am saddened by the loss of life on both sides of the dispute, the blame is still on the red leaders for not calling a win, playing up their great victory and sending the red-rabble protestors back to Nakhon Nowhere. They had WEEKS of warnings from the government that this would happen, and ignored EACH and EVERY one. Bad luck for them now...

If you believe the crap the red rabble leadership preaches to the foreign press they are 'peaceful protestors', trying to effect a change thru a 'peaceful gathering'. Sadly the hatefilled violence inciting rhetoric they preach to the red-rabble protestors doesn't mirror this p/r spin. I guess shooting M-79 grenades, hurling M-150 bottles filled with petrol, and rolling flaming tires are all peaceful methods of protest in the the "Protest 101"; red-rabble-rule-book.

FWIW: I concur with other posters, anyone caught looting should be shot on sight.

Edited May 16, 2010 by tod-daniels

[Robby nz]

The Mrs says she saw on Facebook that the Reds have attacked and burnt Santi Asoke in K k.

Anyone hear anything about this?

[iciparis]

Government shouldn't and can't turn back!!

Letting these looneys have another go to create chaos and anarchy in the future whould be a big mistake as then the armed fight will continue for years to come.

They must eliminate these rotten elements as soon as posible to reduce our society from slipping into further chaos.

There are no innocent bystanders in this picture, if you were innocent then why try to cover your face, drive on your motorcycle(taxi) around with bottles filled of gasoline, bringing tyres to the fire, trowing rocks and use guns to armed forces.

If that's what people call innocent and the media like BBC and CNN brush this off just as little teasing of the troops there should not be any UN-tribunal in the last 60 years cause then nothing has happened in this world.

There was no Rwanda,no sierra leone, blood diamands are just a lie,no iddi amin,no zimbabwe,no south-africa( the Dutch did not create Apartheid, you even can't find it in any dictionary), nothing happened in Argentina,Chili,Cuba,Vietnam,laos,burma,cambodia, etc. Allcountries where elements like Thaksin,Chavalit and their clan where the cause of the problem.

But now they do not own the regular army so they let uneducated,unknowing people be their paid army to fight for their assets.

sorry for not stating an opinion in this comment.

sorry for just giving undeniable facts

Have a nice Sunday in Montenegro Thaksin, enjoy Cumming Chavalit, buy somthing nice in Singapora Potjaman, and please do not turn in your grave dear Marcos!!

I find people such as yourself contributing to the problem. How do words like "looneys," "rotten elements," "uneducated, unknowing people," help the people you are describing find solutions to this tragedy? and how do ideas that have a summary solution; whereas you say, "you can't turn back...they must eliminate these...as soon as possible" prevent people from trusting others intentions? Many of the military are made up of the very people you say are uneducated and unknowing. All armies are used to protect assets, so irregardless of what examples you site about civil discord in the past, we are all dealing with the present. Insults predicated on arrogance is not the way any of us can rise above this ordeal. Killing fields and your idea of social genocide is not a solution. There is enough special interest on both sides of the equation, so everyone would be better served by setting aside their egos long enough to hopefully sit back down with an impartial mediator who can at least attempt to resolve this living tragedy. Let's not pretend to know what everyone is feeling; let's not pretend to know what each side really wants; let's not pretend to know how to end this confrontation, and lets not use language that is divisive and incendiary, because it serves no purpose here or anyplace else in the world. If we have anything to say, and we all do, that is part of our human nature to want to speak out, and to be heard, then let's deal with this from the side of our humanity that allows us to be compassionate, that allows us to be civil, and allows us to seek solutions through compromise. I live here too, and I find this entire situation to be upsetting, and I blow off steam just like I am sure so many of us here do; but, when I write, I write after I have calmed down so I can find my logical side and write from my heart instead of my brain. My families preacher always made the point every Sunday after each sermon to remind everyone if they had something nice to say, to please share their thoughts with him, and if they had something bad to say, to just shake his hand because it was a lot more comforting then watching someone shake their fist! Please chose your words carefully!

For you is easy, you can pick up your bags and leave our country.

Me where can I go???

You're country gives my family a new life??

I was in the Army as well and I know what the soldiers must feel, and so do the rest of Thai people, so why they want to commit violence against their own army and not listen to law??

Would your country allow protesters to shoot and then just say " aah naughty little boys please do not do this again!!

do not think so!!

before my family supported the TRT but since the truth about them has come out we support Thailand as a country and respect the law, but they not even know the law and for last few governments have refused (same as police) to implement the law, so people up country not know law or not care the law.

You thikn that good??

[passon]

Government shouldn't and can't turn back!!

Letting these looneys have another go to create chaos and anarchy in the future whould be a big mistake as then the armed fight will continue for years to come.

They must eliminate these rotten elements as soon as posible to reduce our society from slipping into further chaos.

There are no innocent bystanders in this picture, if you were innocent then why try to cover your face, drive on your motorcycle(taxi) around with bottles filled of gasoline, bringing tyres to the fire, trowing rocks and use guns to armed forces.

If that's what people call innocent and the media like BBC and CNN brush this off just as little teasing of the troops there should not be any UN-tribunal in the last 60 years cause then nothing has happened in this world.

There was no Rwanda,no sierra leone, blood diamands are just a lie,no iddi amin,no zimbabwe,no south-africa( the Dutch did not create Apartheid, you even can't find it in any dictionary), nothing happened in Argentina,Chili,Cuba,Vietnam,laos,burma,cambodia, etc. Allcountries where elements like Thaksin,Chavalit and their clan where the cause of the problem.

But now they do not own the regular army so they let uneducated,unknowing people be their paid army to fight for their assets.

sorry for not stating an opinion in this comment.

sorry for just giving undeniable facts

Have a nice Sunday in Montenegro Thaksin, enjoy Cumming Chavalit, buy somthing nice in Singapora Potjaman, and please do not turn in your grave dear Marcos!!

I find people such as yourself contributing to the problem. How do words like "looneys," "rotten elements," "uneducated, unknowing people," help the people you are describing find solutions to this tragedy? and how do ideas that have a summary solution; whereas you say, "you can't turn back...they must eliminate these...as soon as possible" prevent people from trusting others intentions? Many of the military are made up of the very people you say are uneducated and unknowing. All armies are used to protect assets, so irregardless of what examples you site about civil discord in the past, we are all dealing with the present. Insults predicated on arrogance is not the way any of us can rise above this ordeal. Killing fields and your idea of social genocide is not a solution. There is enough special interest on both sides of the equation, so everyone would be better served by setting aside their egos long enough to hopefully sit back down with an impartial mediator who can at least attempt to resolve this living tragedy. Let's not pretend to know what everyone is feeling; let's not pretend to know what each side really wants; let's not pretend to know how to end this confrontation, and lets not use language that is divisive and incendiary, because it serves no purpose here or anyplace else in the world. If we have anything to say, and we all do, that is part of our human nature to want to speak out, and to be heard, then let's deal with this from the side of our humanity that allows us to be compassionate, that allows us to be civil, and allows us to seek solutions through compromise. I live here too, and I find this entire situation to be upsetting, and I blow off steam just like I am sure so many of us here do; but, when I write, I write after I have calmed down so I can find my logical side and write from my heart instead of my brain. My families preacher always made the point every Sunday after each sermon to remind everyone if they had something nice to say, to please share their thoughts with him, and if they had something bad to say, to just shake his hand because it was a lot more comforting then watching someone shake their fist! Please chose your words carefully!

For you is easy, you can pick up your bags and leave our country.

Me where can I go???

You're country gives my family a new life??

I was in the Army as well and I know what the soldiers must feel, and so do the rest of Thai people, so why they want to commit violence against their own army and not listen to law??

Would your country allow protesters to shoot and then just say " aah naughty little boys please do not do this again!!

do not think so!!

before my family supported the TRT but since the truth about them has come out we support Thailand as a country and respect the law, but they not even know the law and for last few governments have refused (same as police) to implement the law, so people up country not know law or not care the law.

You thikn that good??

No one was suggesting leaving to go anywhere. My country has its own problems, but if you want a new life in a different country, it's never out of the question, but there are no free passes in this world. I was in the U.S. Army during the Vietnam War, so I have an idea about how the soldiers must feel, it's not an easy situation to be in. What my country would have done in this situation is not material, my country is not currently experiencing a widespread government protest. I don't think any of this is good, and I never suggested that it was. I can see you are quite angry and I can certainly appreciate that emotions in this situation are very high at this time, which is even more reason to find solutions that are not based upon anger, but are based upon our ability to find peaceful solutions. There is an old saying that violence begets violence, which means violence will always be met with violence, so where does it end? I could have called you a lot of names when I wrote my post, but I chose to just make observations and rationalize them with an honest plea to please choose your words carefully and to try and understand where your emotions are coming from. I genuinely understand your contempt, and I appreciate the fact that you are angry, because no one who loves their country wants to see it split into factions of violence. I love Thailand too as my adopted country of choice. I want to see this end just as quickly as anyone else, but in a way that will end the violence without using violence to try and end it.

[devaram]

Government shouldn't and can't turn back!!

Letting these looneys have another go to create chaos and anarchy in the future whould be a big mistake as then the armed fight will continue for years to come.

They must eliminate these rotten elements as soon as posible to reduce our society from slipping into further chaos.

There are no innocent bystanders in this picture, if you were innocent then why try to cover your face, drive on your motorcycle(taxi) around with bottles filled of gasoline, bringing tyres to the fire, trowing rocks and use guns to armed forces.

If that's what people call innocent and the media like BBC and CNN brush this off just as little teasing of the troops there should not be any UN-tribunal in the last 60 years cause then nothing has happened in this world.

There was no Rwanda,no sierra leone, blood diamands are just a lie,no iddi amin,no zimbabwe,no south-africa( the Dutch did not create Apartheid, you even can't find it in any dictionary), nothing happened in Argentina,Chili,Cuba,Vietnam,laos,burma,cambodia, etc. Allcountries where elements like Thaksin,Chavalit and their clan where the cause of the problem.

But now they do not own the regular army so they let uneducated,unknowing people be their paid army to fight for their assets.

sorry for not stating an opinion in this comment.

sorry for just giving undeniable facts

Have a nice Sunday in Montenegro Thaksin, enjoy Cumming Chavalit, buy somthing nice in Singapora Potjaman, and please do not turn in your grave dear Marcos!!

I find people such as yourself contributing to the problem. How do words like "looneys," "rotten elements," "uneducated, unknowing people," help the people you are describing find solutions to this tragedy? and how do ideas that have a summary solution; whereas you say, "you can't turn back...they must eliminate these...as soon as possible" prevent people from trusting others intentions? Many of the military are made up of the very people you say are uneducated and unknowing. All armies are used to protect assets, so irregardless of what examples you site about civil discord in the past, we are all dealing with the present. Insults predicated on arrogance is not the way any of us can rise above this ordeal. Killing fields and your idea of social genocide is not a solution. There is enough special interest on both sides of the equation, so everyone would be better served by setting aside their egos long enough to hopefully sit back down with an impartial mediator who can at least attempt to resolve this living tragedy. Let's not pretend to know what everyone is feeling; let's not pretend to know what each side really wants; let's not pretend to know how to end this confrontation, and lets not use language that is divisive and incendiary, because it serves no purpose here or anyplace else in the world. If we have anything to say, and we all do, that is part of our human nature to want to speak out, and to be heard, then let's deal with this from the side of our humanity that allows us to be compassionate, that allows us to be civil, and allows us to seek solutions through compromise. I live here too, and I find this entire situation to be upsetting, and I blow off steam just like I am sure so many of us here do; but, when I write, I write after I have calmed down so I can find my logical side and write from my heart instead of my brain. My families preacher always made the point every Sunday after each sermon to remind everyone if they had something nice to say, to please share their thoughts with him, and if they had something bad to say, to just shake his hand because it was a lot more comforting then watching someone shake their fist! Please chose your words carefully!

You are right of course but you must realize that many expats are not here to learn something they are here to get what they can from Thailand and this war is simply an inconvenience to their shopping mentality.

They would like to get the red shirts cleared out so we can go shopping again.

I think most of us foreigners dont even really understand whats going on here and we fail to realize this is a significant event in history similar to other times of rebellion by the lower classes in Europe hundreds of years ago.

Thailand is one of the few places in the world where the lower classes have never rebelled.

Untill now!

The red shirts may be uncouth hillbillies with bad judgement but at least they have not attacked civillians and in that regard they show great bravery to take on a modern army with nothing but bamboo sticks as it were.

They are certainly not terrorists and show much more civility than the Maoists.

They have however violated unspoken rules in Thai culture and are now reaping the consequences.

Too bad they are so dumb and so misled...

[Sheryl]

A number of flaming posts have been removed

Also removed was a post in Thai; except for Thai language forum, English is the medium on this board

Also removed were what were said to be English translations of that post as your beleaguered Moderators do not have the time to verify same

[FarangCravings]

For you is easy, you can pick up your bags and leave our country.

Me where can I go???

You're country gives my family a new life??

I was in the Army as well and I know what the soldiers must feel, and so do the rest of Thai people, so why they want to commit violence against their own army and not listen to law??

Would your country allow protesters to shoot and then just say " aah naughty little boys please do not do this again!!

do not think so!!

before my family supported the TRT but since the truth about them has come out we support Thailand as a country and respect the law, but they not even know the law and for last few governments have refused (same as police) to implement the law, so people up country not know law or not care the law.

You thikn that good??

Im sorry to say but 99% of thais do not obey nor have respect for any laws you only have to go out on the roads for that to be confirmed with no helmets MASS drunk driving etc etc

and this is just another case of no respect for the law

Edited May 16, 2010 by FarangCravings

[MacWalen]

Another picture. Can we really accept that if someone with a Molotov cocktail got hurt was not in harm's way? We only hear about mostly innocent civilians being hurt or could it be the other way round?

Edited May 16, 2010 by macwalen

[brianb1944]

A lot of things to say:

1- We are on the verge of a Civil war and the Government should take Altitude; Unity on the Country is at risk, Institutions are at risk, important numbers of lives are at risk. The previous negotiation has obviously failed on the Amnesty Chapter (But it is only the emerging part of the iceberg, maybe some other reasons), the government has to make the concessions to bring eveytbody back to the table of discussion. Does not matter career of individuals in this situation: Abhisit may have to resign as part of the discussion if this bring back the Peace

2- I have several times underlined that the militias are unacceptable in democratic Countries: it brings the level of violence to the highest during social unrests. More it can jeopardise the future of a Country. And if my numerous american friend of this forum continue to think about more tough and military actions, just remember Mogadishio, Somalia.... Militias are a Cancer (Yellows, Nedwin, Pattayas, Ronin...any militia)

3- in case of crushing the reds, you should see the consequences on the economy: Spain during Franco period, has been sulked during years in spite marketing efforts. most of europeans avoiding Spain as tourist destination and spanish products.

A lot of things to say, pity none of them are relevent to the Thai Govt currently trying to restore law and order to Bangkok. The rioters, (not protesters) have proven they have no intention of respecting the law or the rights of Bangkok residents. The enforcement of the rule of law is long overdue, there are no innocent peaceful protesters within the red camp, as their promise to loot shopping malls proves.

[iciparis]

To devaram

My friend, he is farang from Netherlands was attacked a few weeks ago while in Korat by redshirt people because he was wearing a brazilian footbal polo, yellow with green.

He nearly lost 2 tops from his fingers and needs to go to the hospital every day to let it get cleaned.

he lives in Bangkok but was just stopping to get some food on his way to hometown of his wife.

So to say they not attack civilians is a big word, maybe now in this fight in our capital they won't because it will give them even worse publicity

[iciparis]

Another picture. Can we really accept that if someone with a Molotov cocktail got hurt was not in harm's way? We only hear about mostly innocent civilians being hurt or could it be the other way round?

Great that these guys pose with a smile on their own arrest warrant or did they think police and government to busy to save all these pictures???