Thailand Rejects Reds Ceasefire Call As Nonsense

[tracer5050]

Sometime you have to know you are loseing . Reds should have took the november elections when it was offered , Now to late . you need to know when to throw in your hand,

[gemini81]

To the reds - if it has not escaped your attention - you have won! - there are to be elections in November - but if the protest and violence continues then you are putting those at risk because you cannot hold fair elections in the immediate aftermath of something like these protests - the country needs time to settle down and reflect on the political choices in an atmosphere of calm....... oh wait or is fair and free elections really their aim? Maybe anarchy and a "triumphant return" by a "hero Thaksin" is what you really seek.

that is EXACTLY correct.

the reds are winning, and if this isnt stopped we'll have anarchy and devil thaksin will return.

the way to stop it is to grant a general amnesty to all Reds except OF COURSE to the devil himself.

you cant bring the Reds back inside the poltical system if their leaders are in jail AND the coup plotters and assissasins of sae daeng arent. double standards isnt what convinces people to return.

if the sunni tribal chiefs could be brought back into the fold in iraq, so can the reds in thailand. amnesty and internationally sponsored free and fair electins are the way to do that.

and every day the killing of innocents (and others) in places like Din Deang and Bon Kai continues, the goverment loses support.

abhisit is a very wise guy. IF he is still in charge, we will have amnesty, just as thailand granted it to the communists in 1976. its only a matter of time.

Hello !!!!! where have u been? Nobody is winning, not the Reds for sure. Everybody, every Thais, babies, small children, young and old is losing, dying in this senseless battle. There is no real leaders on either side. Abphisit had to give up his authority to the Army Chief who is all along playing safe himself because he doesn't know which way the tide will turn and how soon. Those rural poor Reds were being manipulated and brainwashed to leave home and farmland to join the fight which originally had the legitimate ground. and now these poor were caught in between the hardcore followers of Seh Daeng( the urban thugs and anarchists) and the realists like Veera. Abphisit himself, wise maybe but is very inexperience politician. He let the situation deterioting to the boiling point which should have been prevented it a year ago. Now the extremist Seh Daeng is dead, the other Red leaders who are much less confrontional are now willing to go back to talk. Abphisit should have accepted its plea for resume negotiation unconditionally. To put the condition for some 5000 Reds to move out and end rally before talk is not going to happen in a day or two. for sure noone wants to make the first move as being afraid of losing face. So, both sides could careless if these unrest continues on and more killing and injuring to the Thais. More mayham, Thailand drifts and drifts into the lawless land. The thugs, the criminal rule the street and hold its own country ransom and no one seems able to stop it, not even Thai troop. SHAME SHAME TO ALL INVOLVED: THOSE WHO CREATED THE HAVOC WILL BE BURNED IN hel_l.

Now the red leaders say they'll disperse if the soldiers back away (just announced) But I've heard that one before. they little red leaders who cried wolf.

[Garret]

Use the acoustic weapons and also put them to sleep.....

[termad]

To the reds - if it has not escaped your attention - you have won! - there are to be elections in November - but if the protest and violence continues then you are putting those at risk because you cannot hold fair elections in the immediate aftermath of something like these protests - the country needs time to settle down and reflect on the political choices in an atmosphere of calm....... oh wait or is fair and free elections really their aim? Maybe anarchy and a "triumphant return" by a "hero Thaksin" is what you really seek.

So you are thinking about the future of the thai people and that is an excuse for putting children into a dangerous situation......Thaksins tactics sound a little like Saddam's to me!

The thing that saddens me is that the end result of any election will be a "strong" leader and not a "fair" one - well remember this Abhisit's tactics have been aimed at risking lfe as little as possible - a "strong" PM would have marched in at the end of the first weekend and known that as far as the world and most people in the country are concerned a few hundred deaths would have been "yesterdays news" by now. Is that the kind of leadership Thai's really want?

Who do I believe you or Abhisit? You say elections in November Abhisit says elections next year.

[ozzieman05]

It IS nonsense. No one can trust their word anymore, because they keep stalling. They should have negotiated in good faith before things got hairy; they need to stand down, before things get even worse.

I don't know what you were doing during hours and days that the initial negotiating was going on between the Reds and Abisit, but I sat glued to the tv with a friend who translated it to me. When each day was over, I asked what was agreed on? His answer was, no agreement. Abisit only know one word; NO.

This is not negotiating nor is it coming to a compromise. I don't speak Thai, but I do understand the international body/facial language, and what my friend says coincides with what I saw. Even he, who leans more towards yellow and definitely is not red, laughed and shook his head several times during the process at how unmoving Abisit was.

Sorry to be the one to tell you, but your translator griend has been reversing the truth and you have been lapping it all up. Abhisit has bent over backwards to avoid this violence and come up with a reasonable compromise, but the red thugs hired by toxin are the ones who are putting the wrench in the gears.

you where definately watching different mediation than I was

What I saw was total opposite to you

Maybe I am blind

or maybe you are

[Ulysses G.]

Maybe I am blind

Probably not, but your buddy did not translate correctly. It was the reds who turned down peace.

[ozzieman05]

It IS nonsense. No one can trust their word anymore, because they keep stalling. They should have negotiated in good faith before things got hairy; they need to stand down, before things get even worse.

I don't know what you were doing during hours and days that the initial negotiating was going on between the Reds and Abisit, but I sat glued to the tv with a friend who translated it to me. When each day was over, I asked what was agreed on? His answer was, no agreement. Abisit only know one word; NO.

This is not negotiating nor is it coming to a compromise. I don't speak Thai, but I do understand the international body/facial language, and what my friend says coincides with what I saw. Even he, who leans more towards yellow and definitely is not red, laughed and shook his head several times during the process at how unmoving Abisit was.

Sorry to be the one to tell you, but your translator griend has been reversing the truth and you have been lapping it all up. Abhisit has bent over backwards to avoid this violence and come up with a reasonable compromise, but the red thugs hired by toxin are the ones who are putting the wrench in the gears.

******************

Featography has been off a few times with his comments. I have a feeling he was not keeping up with the events prior to the crack down. Featography, don't you remember a couple weeks ago when PM Abhisit "road map"was offered which moved up elections to NOv. 14? It was so GENEROUS that it pissed off the Yellow party. (which people claimed was the Yellow party's puppet) and do you remember that the RED leaders said , "NO" to the offer???????????????????

Yes but you forget

The PM would not say the day he would desolve Parliament

The PM would not say what colour suit he would wear this day

The PM would not say if he would do in the morning or afternoon

The PM would not say what he had for breakfast

What this all has to do with holding an election on the 14th I have no idea

but it was told to us by Thaskin so we could prolong the fighting

[ozzieman05]

To the reds - if it has not escaped your attention - you have won! - there are to be elections in November - but if the protest and violence continues then you are putting those at risk because you cannot hold fair elections in the immediate aftermath of something like these protests - the country needs time to settle down and reflect on the political choices in an atmosphere of calm....... oh wait or is fair and free elections really their aim? Maybe anarchy and a "triumphant return" by a "hero Thaksin" is what you really seek.

So you are thinking about the future of the thai people and that is an excuse for putting children into a dangerous situation......Thaksins tactics sound a little like Saddam's to me!

The thing that saddens me is that the end result of any election will be a "strong" leader and not a "fair" one - well remember this Abhisit's tactics have been aimed at risking lfe as little as possible - a "strong" PM would have marched in at the end of the first weekend and known that as far as the world and most people in the country are concerned a few hundred deaths would have been "yesterdays news" by now. Is that the kind of leadership Thai's really want?

Not correct

Early election where part of an agreement

This agreement was broken by the Red shirts

The Early elections is no longer on the table

Yes the Red shirts had gotten their aim

but threw it away as this was never there objective

[Democrat]

Good! You can't negotiate with anarchist criminals who have been shown remarkable tolerance thus far. Their criminal mob have held the Country to ransom for long enough and their concern for human life is hypocritically one sided stemming only from the desire of their leaders to get an amnesty so they can go off and spend Thaksin's millions.

Where do you get such garbage? They want democratically elected governments to be left alone to rule without the elitist army backed thugs removing them from power and then slaughtering them in the streets when they protest. It's the government who are the criminals.

The reds have nothing whatsoever to do with democracy, they were offered elections on November 14th but preferred to engage in murder, arson and theft because this was what their deity Thaksin wanted. Look at their actions not their weasel words, they deserve all they get and I hope it comes soon.

Where do you get such garbage? they were offered elections on Nov 14th on conditions. Conditions that would have been delayed and delayed, because they are too busy, they have a holiday booked, read the manual on all the excuses. The same as the pad members delay upon delay but, speed up the cases on the opposition. The election would have happened in 2555. And yes both sides are equal in everything they do and have done. Point out 1 wrong from 1 side, if you look hard enough the other side are doing the same. The generals in all parties are trained soldiers, how do they resolve conflict? Maybe if the former members of the armed services and police force were removed from politics, would it be different? Against the culture questions need to be asked.

Another question comes to mind is the court that is hearing the cases of Thaksin and the democrat party in the region of the red city and are they closed and cannot work at the moment to delay Thaksin's cases.

[cdnvic]

If you want your post to live:

1. Do not make it in some huge/coloured/etc font or other weird format.

2. Flood the board with the same message repeatedly.

3. Contain some bizarre conspiracy theory.

4. Quote any of the above.

[joewood]

... "...The two-month crisis has now left 67 people dead and about 1,700 wounded...."

Well, I suppose Thaksin is happy now that his call to uprise has been so effective in bringing more misery and poverty, death and injury to Thailand with thousands losing their jobs, people's lives being disrupted and the world glimpsing the underlying ugliness in the political and social structures in this Land of Smiles which purports to be Buddhist, respecting precious life and seeking enlightenment.

What PM Apisit's extraordinary restraint has revealed is that even if you try and try again and again, you cannot negotiate with a hard-core group who keep shifting the goal-posts and even hide their new capitalist class intentions from their very followers whom they have fooled into thinking that they stand for radical change and not just the simple wrestling for power over the systems of corruption, influence and exploitation.

Taksin shafted the poor through the ballot box with a little bribery, which didn't cost him a thing. Ten years from now, what Red Shirt Insurgent ( Terrorist / Thug, you choose ) whatever colour shirt they wear, will give one thought to the poor of the North and the North-East who will still be up there in their provinces no better off than now ?

They will only be remembered when the next group determined to step outside of the constitution wants to put their women and children in the front line so that they can hide behind them.

[Ulysses G.]

Good! You can't negotiate with anarchist criminals who have been shown remarkable tolerance thus far. Their criminal mob have held the Country to ransom for long enough and their concern for human life is hypocritically one sided stemming only from the desire of their leaders to get an amnesty so they can go off and spend Thaksin's millions.

Where do you get such garbage? They want democratically elected governments to be left alone to rule without the elitist army backed thugs removing them from power and then slaughtering them in the streets when they protest. It's the government who are the criminals.

The reds have nothing whatsoever to do with democracy, they were offered elections on November 14th but preferred to engage in murder, arson and theft because this was what their deity Thaksin wanted. Look at their actions not their weasel words, they deserve all they get and I hope it comes soon.

Where do you get such garbage? they were offered elections on Nov 14th on conditions.

The reds rejected the offer and made their own bed. Now it is too late.

[Bakseedaa]

It IS nonsense. No one can trust their word anymore, because they keep stalling. They should have negotiated in good faith before things got hairy; they need to stand down, before things get even worse.

right

[Phuket Stan]

Good! You can't negotiate with anarchist criminals who have been shown remarkable tolerance thus far. Their criminal mob have held the Country to ransom for long enough and their concern for human life is hypocritically one sided stemming only from the desire of their leaders to get an amnesty so they can go off and spend Thaksin's millions.

Where do you get such garbage? They want democratically elected governments to be left alone to rule without the elitist army backed thugs removing them from power and then slaughtering them in the streets when they protest. It's the government who are the criminals.

The reds have nothing whatsoever to do with democracy, they were offered elections on November 14th but preferred to engage in murder, arson and theft because this was what their deity Thaksin wanted. Look at their actions not their weasel words, they deserve all they get and I hope it comes soon.

Where do you get such garbage? they were offered elections on Nov 14th on conditions. Conditions that would have been delayed and delayed, because they are too busy, they have a holiday booked, read the manual on all the excuses. The same as the pad members delay upon delay but, speed up the cases on the opposition. The election would have happened in 2555. And yes both sides are equal in everything they do and have done. Point out 1 wrong from 1 side, if you look hard enough the other side are doing the same. The generals in all parties are trained soldiers, how do they resolve conflict? Maybe if the former members of the armed services and police force were removed from politics, would it be different? Against the culture questions need to be asked.

Another question comes to mind is the court that is hearing the cases of Thaksin and the democrat party in the region of the red city and are they closed and cannot work at the moment to delay Thaksin's cases.

Wow...... where do u get those drugs from.....I want some of them .....PM your dealers number

[neverdie]

4. Quote any of the above.

Ur one step ahead of me again

[travelingmike]

To the reds - if it has not escaped your attention - you have won! - there are to be elections in November - but if the protest and violence continues then you are putting those at risk because you cannot hold fair elections in the immediate aftermath of something like these protests - the country needs time to settle down and reflect on the political choices in an atmosphere of calm....... oh wait or is fair and free elections really their aim? Maybe anarchy and a "triumphant return" by a "hero Thaksin" is what you really seek.

that is EXACTLY correct.

the reds are winning, and if this isnt stopped we'll have anarchy and devil thaksin will return.

the way to stop it is to grant a general amnesty to all Reds except OF COURSE to the devil himself.

you cant bring the Reds back inside the poltical system if their leaders are in jail AND the coup plotters and assissasins of sae daeng arent. double standards isnt what convinces people to return.

if the sunni tribal chiefs could be brought back into the fold in iraq, so can the reds in thailand. amnesty and internationally sponsored free and fair electins are the way to do that.

and every day the killing of innocents (and others) in places like Din Deang and Bon Kai continues, the goverment loses support.

abhisit is a very wise guy. IF he is still in charge, we will have amnesty, just as thailand granted it to the communists in 1976. its only a matter of time.

Step back and look at the big picture, and the history of events since Aug. 2006. Maybe Taksin started this, but it has mushroomed and exploded far beyond him. He is being blown away in the tailwind, groping hard to hang onto the Red movement's shirt tail. This movement is taking over the country, one square kilometer at a time. It no longer matters if Taksin is still alive or finally met his maker, the movement is unstoppable, and wont even slow down after his demise. It may or may not be pushed underground, forming a deeper rooted grass roots organization, but be fully aware, this country is changing and the military is scared sh@#$less. Not one person in TV has denied that the govt is corrupt. Well the govt is equally scared because this movement may never be squashed. Unlike the 70's and 1992, everyone has access to the internet and everyone is learning from the world, and this political control is no longer acceptable. Thai want what the civilized west has; Democracy, freedom of expression without reprecussions. It may or may not develop into a Democracy that we are accustomed to in our home countries but anything that develops will be far better than what they have now.

'...I understand what you mean with total clarity, however, if you believe that the West, especially the US, has Democracy and freedom of expression post 9/11, then I respectfully suspect you have not been to the US recently'.

©2010theMagician

I hate to say this once again, but do you really think that armed people would be allowed to block off Times Square for almost 2 months? or the downtown of any "western" country? I am from the US and understand that with freedom there must also be responsibility(which is lacking in US among some). Here in the US- the redshirts , the first time they brought weapons to any major city they would be promptly removed. The mexicans are rallying in Arizona-peacefully and politically-this is great, if they bring guns to the rally then the rule of law takes over and they will be promptly and correctly be thrown in jail, this is also great.

[animatic]

Use the acoustic weapons and also put them to sleep.....

So inundate them with André Roux, Enya, The Carpenters

and William Shatner Sings Holliday Favorites.

Alternate with Ray Price's singles from his late 60's 'countrypolitain' period.

If this doesn't send them running for the hills nothing will.

[animatic]

4. Quote any of the above.

Ur one step ahead of me again

ROTFLOL...

give me three steps to the door.

Before the black helicopters come to get me...

geeze lousie

[Democrat]

Wow...... where do u get those drugs from.....I want some of them .....PM your dealers number

Phuket. How did you know he was my dealer. By the way you got any free land for me down in Phuket.

[Steely Dan]

Use the acoustic weapons and also put them to sleep.....

So inundate them with André Roux, Enya, The Carpenters

and William Shatner Sings Holliday Favorites.

Alternate with Ray Price's singles from his late 60's 'countrypolitain' period.

If this doesn't send them running for the hills nothing will.

They can borrow my Kazoo if that helps too, though judging from most of the Thai music I've heard they will be a tough nut to crack.

[neverdie]

4. Quote any of the above.

Ur one step ahead of me again

ROTFLOL...

give me three steps to the door.

Before the black helicopters come to get me...

geeze lousie

there was actual several parts of his post that applied to me, but the forth one prevented me quoting them.

[nightmarch]

Good! You can't negotiate with anarchist criminals who have been shown remarkable tolerance thus far. Their criminal mob have held the Country to ransom for long enough and their concern for human life is hypocritically one sided stemming only from the desire of their leaders to get an amnesty so they can go off and spend Thaksin's millions.

Where do you get such garbage? They want democratically elected governments to be left alone to rule without the elitist army backed thugs removing them from power and then slaughtering them in the streets when they protest. It's the government who are the criminals.

I'm sorry to say this, but this is a democratically elected government. Based on the system of government we have in Thailand, Abhisit is indeed entitled to the leadership. The December 2007 election saw the PPP win 233 seats and the Abhisit-led Democrats 165 seats. This out of a total of 480 seats. Therefore, no single party won a majority. The PPP had 36.63% of the vote (26.3 million people) and the Democrats 30.30% of the vote (21.7 million people). Not really a lot of difference. The PPP, naturally, as the majority party had first crack at forming a govt. Later, as we all know, there were sufficient defections from coalition partners and some PPP members to hand the Democrats a majority on the floor of the House. That's parliamentary democracy at work (for example, look at the recent British elections). Whether Abhisit and his party are right for the country is up to individual perspective, but as far as the democratic system is concerned, this current govt is as legitimate as the current Constitution allows.

[ETatBKK]

'...I understand what you mean with total clarity, however, if you believe that the West, especially the US, has Democracy and freedom of expression post 9/11, then I respectfully suspect you have not been to the US recently'.

©2010theMagician

I hate to say this once again, but do you really think that armed people would be allowed to block off Times Square for almost 2 months? or the downtown of any "western" country? I am from the US and understand that with freedom there must also be responsibility(which is lacking in US among some). Here in the US- the redshirts , the first time they brought weapons to any major city they would be promptly removed. The mexicans are rallying in Arizona-peacefully and politically-this is great, if they bring guns to the rally then the rule of law takes over and they will be promptly and correctly be thrown in jail, this is also great.

I guess we are taking to some people that they never understand the responsibility of being freedom of expression ! they wrongly translate they meaning that suit into their situation, and they want to make advantage of it. sorry, no free lunch.

simple, if anyone occupies the time square for two months, then the first week of that two months they already been wipe cleaned completely ( by force ). it will never happen like this.

the different is, this is amazing Thailand and this 2 month illegal occupancy would happen.

[Democrat]

I hate to say this once again, but do you really think that armed people would be allowed to block off Times Square for almost 2 months? or the downtown of any "western" country? I am from the US and understand that with freedom there must also be responsibility(which is lacking in US among some). Here in the US- the redshirts , the first time they brought weapons to any major city they would be promptly removed. The mexicans are rallying in Arizona-peacefully and politically-this is great, if they bring guns to the rally then the rule of law takes over and they will be promptly and correctly be thrown in jail, this is also great.

Were the reds not rallying peacefully. The army brought in their anti-aircraft guns (still find this unbelievable, if it wasn't so serious it would be funny) and other weapons, shooting rifles into the air(CRES), eyewitness account (bbc, not journalist). 'The army shot a red shirt in a pickup not 5 feet from me, I wouldn't believe it if I didn't see it, than the sound of shooting was everywhere'. Then robin hood and his merry men, get in on the action. The protesters seized weapons and full body armour (again if it wasn't so serious it would be funny)

I don't disbelieve some reds were carrying weapons as this is a normal occurrence in Thailand. From there it has escalated into more unnecessary deaths.

So in your country it would not have become a blockade of times square for 2 months as the military would have no involvement. The riot police would not take in armoured vehicles, anti-aircraft guns etc. They would have batons, water cannons, riot shields. They would have allowed then to protest as in Arizona. I also concur if they bring guns the rule of law should takeover.

People have died and that is not right. there are a lot of people responsible for this and they should be held accountable.

[topsecret]

yep, a slippery slope indeed... I suggest someone throw out an anchor to the various leaders in hopes of stopping their slide.

The only people that are fighting and destroying everything in their path are the Reds. So it is nonsense to call for Ceasefire. Some should tell them just stop. End of story

You cant tell them to stop. You have to send in the troops to clear them out.

The PM is too weak to do this and HE must now step down to save the country!

[Lite Beer]

A post linking to an article discussing The Monarchy has been deleted.

[kratiam]

A post linking to an article discussing The Monarchy has been deleted.

Just for my info...is Lite Beer the moderator or the poster whose posting was deleted?

[Steely Dan]

Red protesters have booed off leaders' attempt to negotiate a ceasefire with govt. /via @tulsathit

Some protesters have even thrown things at stage when told that reds would end their part in violence. /via @tulsathit

Where's our 100,000 Baht? We're not going home without it! - (Oh the perils of brainwashing)

[khunjamespittman]

It IS nonsense. No one can trust their word anymore, because they keep stalling. They should have negotiated in good faith before things got hairy; they need to stand down, before things get even worse.

Agreed. The reds need to make a dramatic gesture to show their good faith now that they have totally darkened their name, even among previous supporters such as you. Best idea to the reds -- GO HOME. Then politely ask for early elections and pledge no more violence. Guess what? Abhisit will probably say yes.

Jing everyone would be better off if your PC were to fail. Both sides need to choose new leaders, who are not dead set on retaining their jobs. Get an independent international mediator. Lay out all the possible realistic alternatives and stop all this Go Home or kill them all message coming from radicals here on TV. Develop a workable plan to put in place a government that has the respect all ot the Thais.

Its clear that the current government can't be trusted some some method must be devised to elect a representative government.

[Democrat]

I'm sorry to say this, but this is a democratically elected government. Based on the system of government we have in Thailand, Abhisit is indeed entitled to the leadership. The December 2007 election saw the PPP win 233 seats and the Abhisit-led Democrats 165 seats. This out of a total of 480 seats. Therefore, no single party won a majority. The PPP had 36.63% of the vote (26.3 million people) and the Democrats 30.30% of the vote (21.7 million people). Not really a lot of difference. The PPP, naturally, as the majority party had first crack at forming a govt. Later, as we all know, there were sufficient defections from coalition partners and some PPP members to hand the Democrats a majority on the floor of the House. That's parliamentary democracy at work (for example, look at the recent British elections). Whether Abhisit and his party are right for the country is up to individual perspective, but as far as the democratic system is concerned, this current govt is as legitimate as the current Constitution allows.

Urr were the votes bought?