The Future Is Ev

[Loz]

WHy not, Electric cars are coming on in leaps and bounds. This might become an everyday sight.

Telsa have a Highway ready production car now in the Roadster 0-60 in under 4 seconds and potential 240mile range on combined cycle. up to 313miles.

The future looks like EVs will have thier place.

[aussiebebe]

The former UK government gave a multi-million pound tax-break to Nissan to produce their electric car the Leaf and Chevrolet, of all companies, are apparently first with their mass-production Volt next year. At present, there's only the G-Whizz (technically not a car) and that Telsa which costs heaps.

I agree, the battery technology has developed so quickly, the future is probably electric. The Volt can do 40 miles on a charge, more than most people need, and even when these cars are produced and sold they can be upgraded in the future with better batteries as they come along. The Leaf will do an 80% quick-charge in 30minutes and electric cars have nearly zero maintenance. The problem is the deadly silence - electric cars will need electronic warning sounds.

[BlackArtemis]

What could be a fun project is turning a classic beetle into an electric car to run around town. A decent shape bug goes for 100K, the hard part would be obtaining the parts for the conversion though...

[Lancelot]

What could be a fun project is turning a classic beetle into an electric car to run around town. A decent shape bug goes for 100K, the hard part would be obtaining the parts for the conversion though...

A guy I knew did that in the US about 15 years ago. I forget the range (not that great) but battery technology has improved greatly in the mean time.

Off topic, but its a real pity that the US would have foregone invading Iraq and spent the money on EV and battery/solar technology.

Ah well...

Anyway, FWIW the country (corporation domiciled there) that produces a truly practical EV will enjoy huge profits and "rule" the auto industry for some time. If I were king of the world, I'd have contests for developing greater range, say 200 miles on one charge, and award substantial cash prizes for the winner

[Deeral]

Electric cars are for the most part a blind alley.

The electricity has to be generated and this of course requires the burning of fuel - and in some cases the burning of really serious pollutants like coal.

So an exercise in cleaning up the planet it is really a sweeping under the carpet exercise.

[BlackArtemis]

Electric cars are for the most part a blind alley.

The electricity has to be generated and this of course requires the burning of fuel - and in some cases the burning of really serious pollutants like coal.

So an exercise in cleaning up the planet it is really a sweeping under the carpet exercise.

Actually, if you set up enough solar and wind turbines on your own property you could charge the battery this way.

However, by doing this you are doing it for environmental reasons, as cost would have gone out the window compared to a conservative combustion engine.

[losworld]

Check this out Honda has a fuel cell on the market.

http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/

[Deeral]

Electric cars are for the most part a blind alley.

The electricity has to be generated and this of course requires the burning of fuel - and in some cases the burning of really serious pollutants like coal.

So an exercise in cleaning up the planet it is really a sweeping under the carpet exercise.

Actually, if you set up enough solar and wind turbines on your own property you could charge the battery this way.

However, by doing this you are doing it for environmental reasons, as cost would have gone out the window compared to a conservative combustion engine.

OK - just THINK - have you calculated how many wind turbines etc you'd need?

Small home generators are more a fad than a real solution at present.

THe other thing is the cost of Manufacture and the materials required for cells etc

Automobile - this infers MOBILITY - so you have have a NETWORK of power charging - to replace the current power generation network with a "green" system for use by transport - that's how many million vehicles??? can you achieve this with a few wind turbines etc no!

I'd love to seen more green generation of electricity but until that happens the electric car is actually little more than a con.

a motor vehicle has 3 stages of energy consumption and subsequent pollution.

1 - it's manufacture - the factory uses energy and the materials requires for building cells etc are often rare and unique.

2 - The vehicle then has a life-span of use - then it draws power from the national grid - so still using carbon generated power there.

3 - it is disposed of - in Germany now they stipulate how much of any motor vehicle manufactures must be re-cyclable.

THe materials used in electric cars can be particularly difficult to cope with - so probably a step back here by the electric car.

Hydrogen powered and fuel cell - not the same thing - may well offer a real alternative to carbon-based fuels.

many say that there is as yet no network - well this I don't believe is a real obstacle - if the price is right a network will appear.

price will fall with mass production and then it may be a practical alternative.

Furthermore people tend to look at alternative power systems only in terms of transport - static hydrogen cell generators are already becoming viable - (e.g. hospital generators) and the savings in carbon emissions by other polluters than the motorcar may end up giving the motor industry a reprieve.

Of course unless they are under REAL pressure they won't develop new technologies - only publicity stunts and electric sports cars.

Do you remember "Everyone will have a helicopter"????

[Donnyboy]

EVs have a place but they wont dominate over petrol/diesel powered cars just yet

the limiting factor is still the charging time

[Deeral]

OK -what is their place?

We have had electric vehicles as long as we have had internal combustion and they have never proved themselves except in certain niches - milk floats, trolly buses.

Trains have been hybrid or electric for decades.

as an aside - there are even safety problems - they're TOO Quiet - pedestrians don't hear them!

THeir "limiting factor" is that they do not offer an alternative use to carbon fuels - they merely take it from the national grid instead of out of the pump.

i'm sure that power cells will become smaller, but I fail to see that they will ever play a significant part in private transport in the same way the internal combustion engine has.

Edited May 23, 2010 by Deeral

[Donnyboy]

their place is with the greenie people and on the Golf Courses!!

the limiting factor is still "charging time & cost of vehical"once they over come it by charging the cells in the same time you can fill a tank with petrol/diesel, and the cost per car is equal to or less than the conventional car, the days of internal combustion engine is over!

Hybrids are still too expensive for it to become a true alternative, but when the prices come down, you might see them as an alternative.

Not all national grids are powered by fossil fuels, some are hydro, some are nuclear. But most are coal/diesel, but we are seeing new alternative renewable energy, which dont use fossil fuels.

Battery cells will get better and better, dont count that out. They have come a long long way. Remember the first mobile phones?

Edited May 23, 2010 by Donnyboy

[Deeral]

OK - stereotypes instead of making a point - THe point is, like the 2CV they really aren't that green.

[Deeral]

I'm perfectly aware of other fuels used on national grids - I'm also aware of the percentage they take up in most countries (check it out if you want to descend into minutia but it isn'r relevant to the argument) and their associated problems and drawbacks - none of which help to make the hybrid anything other than a blind alley.

[globerunner4]

So where are the EVs and conversions in Thailand? Is it not cost effective (I have solar panels)? Is it a D.O.T thing? How do they treat EVs? I would love to convert one of these old Beetles, Toyotas or even a Vespa that you see all over Chiang Mai; a classic with reliability and performance. Does anyone know the fees and logistics to bring parts in from China? They sell lithium batteries there that can get you 250 miles on one charge and won't cost you a fortune.

[DougLee]

Electric cars are for the most part a blind alley.

The electricity has to be generated and this of course requires the burning of fuel - and in some cases the burning of really serious pollutants like coal.

So an exercise in cleaning up the planet it is really a sweeping under the carpet exercise.

Actually, if you set up enough solar and wind turbines on your own property you could charge the battery this way.

However, by doing this you are doing it for environmental reasons, as cost would have gone out the window compared to a conservative combustion engine.

From a real estate website, for 350k baht u can save 35k per year in electricity. If you plan to stay where you are for a while, you will save money in the long run. Also if you do it yourself you can probably save 50-100k on the instal.

Also some countries might wake up and get some insight in their head one day. Dig some holes and build a renewable waterfall and then put a hydro station to harness the electric power.

Can't be that hard to create a big waterway in a country where there's a lot of water. Thats free 0 polution electricity

Edited December 11, 2010 by DougLee

[globerunner4]

Bangkok Post: An EV future for Thailand

http://www.bangkokpost.com/auto/autopreview/37306/an-ev-future-for-thailand

[Haooo]

I'm always thinking about one question about electrical cars: Energy Transform.

Conventional Gasoline or Diesel engine is to transform chemical energy to kinetic energy, though the efficiency is just around 30%.

But electrical cars need one more step of transformation, chemical energy -> electric energy -> kinetic energy. If the electric is got from fuel-burning power plant, I'm very doubt the efficiency.

At last, the batteries need to be disposed, the hazard to environment.

[MoonRiverOasis]

I'm always thinking about one question about electrical cars: Energy Transform.

Conventional Gasoline or Diesel engine is to transform chemical energy to kinetic energy, though the efficiency is just around 30%.

But electrical cars need one more step of transformation, chemical energy -> electric energy -> kinetic energy. If the electric is got from fuel-burning power plant, I'm very doubt the efficiency.

At last, the batteries need to be disposed, the hazard to environment.

From a raw energy standpoint, the very best diesel engines get up to 50% energy efficiency, the very best petrol engines are up to 30% efficient, while electric motors are easily able to achieve more than 80% efficiency.

The real argument for electric cars is none of that though - it's about it just making sense. Electric motors have a torque/power curve ideally suited to what is actually needed for a car. Electric cars are magnitudes quieter, much smoother for power delivery, and vastly simpler in design (do a moving part count comparison ). They're also substantially cheaper to run, and it won't be that long before they're not any more expensive to buy.

These are the reasons why people will buy electric cars.

Factors like "it's greener", "your money stays at home" etc are what's being marketed to try and justify the (current) high price tags, but the fact it only a very, very, very small minority of cars buyers truly care about that.

It won't be long before the price premium for electric narrows/disappears, and when that happens there's not much chance you'll choose a clunky, noisy, sluggish and expensive-to-run gasoline or diesel powered dinosaur over its quiet, smooth, cheap-to-run and powerful electric competition...

What's most efficient, or better for the environment or whatever doesn't actually matter - all that matters is what people will spend their money on

Watch and see how the marketing message for electric cars changes in the coming years