Frozen Uk Government Pensions

[tom21]

i am at a loss reading this thread and wonder how many BM live in thailand. i have a non imm O with a 12 month extension for retirement but that is not living here. if i lived here i be a resident and have voting rights so wonder how many do. i class myself as visiting here and residing in my home country.

[theoldgit]

^^^

I also extend my stay in Thailand every twelve months based on retirement, I have a condo, car etc etc, so I would class that as living here.

I am not a Thai Citizen so don't have the right to vote, but surly I still live here?

[PattayaParent]

Let me explain by way of an example:

The UK GOVERNMENT will ask "did you pay income tax at source on the contributions you made?" Whats the answer?.... NO

The answer to that is YES

The UK GOVERNMENT will ask "do you pay income tax at source on your State Pension?" Whats the answer.... NO

This is where a lot of people lose the argument. Tax ISNT paid on the State Pension (according to the UK government) because, simply put, the figures fall WAY below the INCREASED tax allowance that you get when you reach pensionable age.

Then if the State Pension is not taxed the question is irrelevant and a no answer is no reason to exclude people from getting the increase. Indeed those receiving the increase must also answer no, so why do they get the increase?

Ok, next up is contributions:

What do you feel you are being denied that you contributed to? Are you being refused a basic State Pension? Whats the answer.....NO

Because that all your (or anyone elses) contributions covered....the basic State Pension. The yearly increases are based on a DIFFERENT set of rules that are based on residency. What the government will (and HAVE said time after time) is that no one forced you to move to Thailand. You went of your own free will.

Yes, I would be denied the Basic State Pension, because now that basic pension is 97 Quid, and in 5 years time the Basic State Pension will be 110 Quid (for example) so why don't I receive it?

[Penkoprod]

'' He who fights and runs away'' is a coward, will always be a coward and will not fight another day.

You can quote all the logical stuff you like but if it wasn't for the courage of some we would all still be working the fields as peasants.

This is, indeed turning into a pissing contest as far as you and i are concerned, so, rather than drag it too much off topic, i will concede that you do, indeed have a much bigger dick than me........ok? Feel better now?

Pity for you yours is growing out of your forehead, and your testicles are stopping you seeing properly

I shall leave you to get into your pensioners cheerleaders outfit, and say i bet THATS a sight for sore eyes 5555555555!!!!!!:cheesy::cheesy:

Penkoprod

[theoldgit]

With all these frivolities I'd forgotten what the topic was about now, could someone remind me please?

[Penkoprod]

Let me explain by way of an example:

The UK GOVERNMENT will ask "did you pay income tax at source on the contributions you made?" Whats the answer?.... NO

The answer to that is YES

The UK GOVERNMENT will ask "do you pay income tax at source on your State Pension?" Whats the answer.... NO

This is where a lot of people lose the argument. Tax ISNT paid on the State Pension (according to the UK government) because, simply put, the figures fall WAY below the INCREASED tax allowance that you get when you reach pensionable age.

Then if the State Pension is not taxed the question is irrelevant and a no answer is no reason to exclude people from getting the increase. Indeed those receiving the increase must also answer no, so why do they get the increase?

Ok, next up is contributions:

What do you feel you are being denied that you contributed to? Are you being refused a basic State Pension? Whats the answer.....NO

Because that all your (or anyone elses) contributions covered....the basic State Pension. The yearly increases are based on a DIFFERENT set of rules that are based on residency. What the government will (and HAVE said time after time) is that no one forced you to move to Thailand. You went of your own free will.

Yes, I would be denied the Basic State Pension, because now that basic pension is 97 Quid, and in 5 years time the Basic State Pension will be 110 Quid (for example) so why don't I receive it?

Your 1st comment......you wouldnt care to flesh it out with some proof of NI contributions are net of, and not gross salary?

I will do likewise, but with proof of it being GROSS and not net of income tax:Here and Here

I shall await your links showing evidence of it being net of income tax with baited breath

Your second statement doesnt make sense to me tbh. Wuold you mind simplifying it, please?

Your third statement is answered thus:

Your "contract" with UK government was for you to pay NI contributions, and for them to provide a State Pension at retirement age at whatever level of contributions you made. The key three words are..... AT RETIREMENT AGE.

Anything above that, such as increases to it is paid from a different criteria. One of residency. That, unfortunatly is the truth of the matter, and also the reason why you cant claim things like Incapacity Benefit, Jobseekers Allowance, DLA/Carers Allowance while living abroad. All those were "contributed to" as well.

Once more, i am not saying its my opinion, or that its right or wrong.... just that it "is"

Penkoprod

[PattayaParent]

^^ couldn't post this in reply, something to do with too many quotes.

Then if the contributions are made from gross salary then like the second question it becomes irrelevant and NOBODY can be excluded by answering no becuase EVERYBODY answers no.

And with regard to the 'contract' providing a State Pension at retirement age based on residency, that is just an arbitrary criteria which can easily be changed and they don't have any real reason not to make the change.

[Penkoprod]

^^ couldn't post this in reply, something to do with too many quotes.

Then if the contributions are made from gross salary then like the second question it becomes irrelevant and NOBODY can be excluded by answering no becuase EVERYBODY answers no.

And with regard to the 'contract' providing a State Pension at retirement age based on residency, that is just an arbitrary criteria which can easily be changed and they don't have any real reason not to make the change.

Firstly, no ifs, buts or maybes... State Pension contriibutions come from GROSS income. It doesnt matter how you try and rephrase it, or play semantics. The links i provided are proof positive that this IS the case.........right? ( i won't wait for yours to "prove" that they come from net...deal? )

The only irrelevance is the statement "State Pensions are taxed at source"

Go read my 1st post on here about this, where i wished the OP luck as he might need it.........especially when people sing the same tired old songs, and here we are.......some people singing the same old songs !!!!!!!

Secondly, rather than calling it "arbitrary criteria" how about using the proper phrase for it....... STATUTE OF LAW ??????

Your contributions get you exactly what was put on statute all those years ago (1948 i think)

Your residency determines whether or not you are entitled to yearly increases or not

Again....same old song of " i pay my contributions.......etc, etc" ad nauseum

While you ARE correct in that any law can be changed, it takes the will of the lawmaker to change it

Lets see if there IS that will huh? Each and every time this law has been challenged, have they capitulated and changed it for the good of expat pensioners?

Their whole attitude towards pensioners (those in UK as well as abroad, btw) quite frankly stinks. Their attitude towards expats is even worse!!!!

Put the 2 parts together to get the phrase "expat pensioners" then they get apoplectic, almost. Its like the AntiChrist had come amongst them. Thats not a rant, but the truth as i see it. They will fight tooth and nail if they have to, to deny any change to allow expats any increases. Trouble is, they havent needed to bring out any big artillery, because people that challenge them do so with false, bogus arguments, as i keep pointing out.

Penkoprod

[rgs2001uk]

The rights and wrongs and injustices can be discussed until the cows come home, it doesnt matter a jot to politicians.

Numbers is the only thing they worry about, and right now its not politically expedient.

Not enough affected expats living overseas to make any difference.

Not enough voters in the UK who are concerned, and even less who are aware of the differences, for it to matter.

Dont believe me, try bringing up the topic the next time you are in your local back home.

You will probably be laughed out the place, resentment is the first thing that springs to mind, som nam na quickly follows, seen as living some sort of tax free playboy life style by the poor bu****s stuck in the UK with no way out.

Another thing not mentioned is the level of OAP you may well receive, if you have other pensions that take you above a certain threshold, your state OAP will be cut, no matter where you live.

[Penkoprod]

'' He who fights and runs away'' is a coward, will always be a coward and will not fight another day.

You can quote all the logical stuff you like but if it wasn't for the courage of some we would all still be working the fields as peasants.

This is, indeed turning into a pissing contest as far as you and i are concerned, so, rather than drag it too much off topic, i will concede that you do, indeed have a much bigger dick than me........ok? Feel better now?

Pity for you yours is growing out of your forehead, and your testicles are stopping you seeing properly

I shall leave you to get into your pensioners cheerleaders outfit, and say i bet THATS a sight for sore eyes 5555555555!!!!!!:cheesy::cheesy:

Penkoprod

Well, l think this last post of yours really shows me/us where your coming from and to be treated with the contempt it deserves.

Lastly, l am not a pensioner , but my mum and dad were.

You can dish the insults out, but cant take them back, huh????

A typical keyboard warrior, i see :jerk:

Penkoprod

[chiang mai]

I hope I'm not intruding here but yes, UK state pension contributions, aka NI payments, do come from gross salary hence it represents untaxed payment. I'll leave now.

[yeesipha]

Im afraid its the same old story,if you do everything by the book you get STUFFED big time,you gotta learn to cook the books,and if that means bending the rules to suit then so be it,i mean DECLARING that your permanently leaving the uk to retire in thailand ,

[Penkoprod]

Sorry, but can't see any insults. Again you show where your coming from. You have lost your cred.

My dad hasn't.

Join the knitting forum.

Try looking at post #12

For sure by your comments your an arsehole_e. Take this in. Fact

My English aunt is married to a yank, he was posted to UK with his job for a number of years. Paid UK tax and was given a NI number.

Went back to US to work. Retired, The UK pay him a pension for the years he paid NI, AND GIVE THE YANK INCREASES WHEN THEY OCCUR, why, because he's in a country on the government list. He's not even ENGLISH. He was gob smacked and laughed all the way to the bank. Do you think that is right ???????

Like i say.........dish it out, cant take it

I shan't sink to your level.........have a nice day

Edited June 29, 2010 by Penkoprod

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

a guy with obvious financial security.

<snip>

Not so sure about that. Given the amount of detail he knows about the subject, it sounds to me as though he's investigated this for a long, long time and finally given up. The strange thing is that he appears to object to others trying to rectify this situation.

[mahtin]

<snip>

a guy with obvious financial security.

<snip>

Not so sure about that. Given the amount of detail he knows about the subject, it sounds to me as though he's investigated this for a long, long time and finally given up. The strange thing is that he appears to object to others trying to rectify this situation.

My take too.

[cardholder]

This thread is all about fairness - or more accurately, LACK of fairness.

It is not about Penkoprod's "the government have bigger &lt;deleted&gt; so go and play in street" - it is about whether the UK government treat all pensioners equitably.

THEY DON'T.

I accept that the legal process has gone as far as it can. It does not mean representation should stop.

If Penkoprod wants to roll over and die - up to him. Many others will continue 'the fight' even if futile.

[cardholder]

This thread is all about fairness - or more accurately, LACK of fairness.

It is not about Penkoprod's "the government have bigger &lt;deleted&gt; so go and play in street" - it is about whether the UK government treat all pensioners equitably.

THEY DON'T.

I accept that the legal process has gone as far as it can. It does not mean representation should stop.

If Penkoprod wants to roll over and die - up to him. Many others will continue 'the fight' even if futile.

[Penkoprod]

<snip>

a guy with obvious financial security.

<snip>

Not so sure about that. Given the amount of detail he knows about the subject, it sounds to me as though he's investigated this for a long, long time and finally given up. The strange thing is that he appears to object to others trying to rectify this situation.

Dont get me wrong. I am NOT objecting to anyone having a go at trying to fix this, but what i must admit i DO get annoyed with people using the same, flawed arguments that have been thrown out of court, time after time after time, in spite of the fact that they ARE flawed, and then argue that they AREN'T flawed, when its shown to be as plain as a pikestaff that they are.

You (we) need more than that to try to break down a seemingly impregnable wall. We wont get it by using the same moans and rants

Just for the record, i have said very little about my own opinion on the case of expat pensioners (and pensions in general), but i will do now:

Its absolutely derisory, and one that the lawmakers should hang their heads in shame over... but they wont, and neither will they change any rules/laws/regulations or whatever one wants to call them

But thats only my opinion. Do you think that the mandrains of Whitehhall value it? Not in the least !!!!! And same goes for anyone else that thinks they do.

Thats the saddest part of all this

Penkoprod

[cardholder]

<snip>

a guy with obvious financial security.

<snip>

Not so sure about that. Given the amount of detail he knows about the subject, it sounds to me as though he's investigated this for a long, long time and finally given up. The strange thing is that he appears to object to others trying to rectify this situation.

Dont get me wrong. I am NOT objecting to anyone having a go at trying to fix this, but what i must admit i DO get annoyed with people using the same, flawed arguments that have been thrown out of court, time after time after time, in spite of the fact that they ARE flawed, and then argue that they AREN'T flawed, when its shown to be as plain as a pikestaff that they are.

You (we) need more than that to try to break down a seemingly impregnable wall. We wont get it by using the same moans and rants

Just for the record, i have said very little about my own opinion on the case of expat pensioners (and pensions in general), but i will do now:

Its absolutely derisory, and one that the lawmakers should hang their heads in shame over... but they wont, and neither will they change any rules/laws/regulations or whatever one wants to call them

But thats only my opinion. Do you think that the mandrains of Whitehhall value it? Not in the least !!!!! And same goes for anyone else that thinks they do.

Thats the saddest part of all this

Penkoprod

For the record, it is "Mandarins" of Whitehall, and, NO they don't give a &lt;deleted&gt;.

The whole point of this, and similar head against brick wall situations, is to find someone who DOES give a shit. A rebel with a cause can achieve an awful lot.

ONE PERSON.

[mahtin]

Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more...

[thaibeachlovers]

The UK system, pensions, health, whatever, were achieved by the ordinary working bloke fighting for what is right, not those born with a silver spoon in their mouth, the ordinary bloke. Took a long time but now foreigners are fighting to get into the UK to get what our fore fathers have achieved. The same ordinary working bloke is now fighting for a bit of justice to retire where he wants, not about agreements with other countries, what is right for an individual who has worked his life and paid into the system. We all paid the same taxes and NI, and when we retire who gives a shit where you are and what you are doing. Work finished, feet up, wait to die, thats it, simple.

Nice bit of sabre rattling, comrade, but thats all it is......... sabre rattling. Like a lot of expat pensioners who are pissing against the wind, unfortunatly.

You just dont get it, do you?

You are up against a far bigger foe, with far bigger grievances, and fighting bigger injustices than that...one of which is (in their eyes) greedy expat pensioners, who have never paid tax on their State Pensions, either while contributing to it, and not now that they have it.

Simply put, you are asking people to work 5 years longer than you, and then to contribute more of their taxes towards your (earlier than them) pension increases while you are "living the dream" and taking your money with you.

The only problem they might have with that is which word to put before the word "off"

Again.....not my feelings, but one that shows the futility of it all.

Like i said in my very 1st post....remember the proverb?

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;

Courage to change the things I can;

And wisdom to know the difference.

Penkoprod

I'll take issue with that. It's CHEAPER for the government to have pensioners outside the UK, as they're not occupying council housing, getting free travel, free medical care ( the elderly are the largest users of the NHS ) using services etc etc. If the government had a clue, they'd be doing everything in their power to have as many pensioners as possible emmigrate, even if that entailed paying them pension increases.

I read somewhere the Japanese government were trying to get their pensioners to go elsewhere already.

As for "asking people to work 5 years longer', no we're not, we're just asking for the same deal as we paid taxes all our life for the previous generation. If there's no money in the kitty, it's not our fault. None of us were bankers fiddling the books with government connivance. The money hasn't vanished, someone's got it, get it back. Perhaps putting some bankers ( and gordon ) in jail for the rest of their life for what they did will produce some readies ( I'm just dreaming )!

Anyway, once "Grey Power" takes over, we can change it, and punish the guilty **&^^%!

[Penkoprod]

Dont get me wrong. I am NOT objecting to anyone having a go at trying to fix this, but what i must admit i DO get annoyed with people using the same, flawed arguments that have been thrown out of court, time after time after time, in spite of the fact that they ARE flawed, and then argue that they AREN'T flawed, when its shown to be as plain as a pikestaff that they are.

You (we) need more than that to try to break down a seemingly impregnable wall. We wont get it by using the same moans and rants

Just for the record, i have said very little about my own opinion on the case of expat pensioners (and pensions in general), but i will do now:

Its absolutely derisory, and one that the lawmakers should hang their heads in shame over... but they wont, and neither will they change any rules/laws/regulations or whatever one wants to call them

But thats only my opinion. Do you think that the mandrains of Whitehhall value it? Not in the least !!!!! And same goes for anyone else that thinks they do.

Thats the saddest part of all this

Penkoprod

For the record, it is "Mandarins" of Whitehall, and, NO they don't give a &lt;deleted&gt;.

The whole point of this, and similar head against brick wall situations, is to find someone who DOES give a shit. A rebel with a cause can achieve an awful lot.

ONE PERSON.

Dear oh dear, is THAT what you are reduced to........picking up on typos? How sad Just keep your eyes open, as there will be plenty more, no doubt !!!!

And, just to inspire you in your quest:

[thaibeachlovers]

Good luck....you are going to need it !!!!!Sorry to burst anyone's bubble, and i suppose its OK to have a rant and rave about it, but, ultimatly thats all this is, as it wont change a thing back in the UK. All groups like this will be seen as just another bunch of old farts, with too much time on their hands....begging for money to which they are not entitled to, by every rule and ruling thats been made on the subject, unfortunatly. Thats the reality of it Especially if you are going to be singing the same tired old songs that have been thrown out of every court the case has been presented in

You know the ones? The ballads of "i've paid my contributions all my working life, and now feel entitled to increases as of right" or "i still pay taxes on my pension" or how about "people in other countries get it, so why cant i?" All sound quite plausible, but, ultimatly flawed Dont get me wrong, here, i'm all for getting a fair share of the pot, but the pot is getting smaller and smaller, and expat pensioners are the last in line for any benefit to be paid out to them. Always have been, and always will be. I can certainly see nothing will change for the good in my lifetime.

How does that proverb/prayer go?..... God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference. I will just spend my time, making my plans around how not to get into a situation whereby i am relying on a meagre increase (manipulated to be the lower of the 2 inflation rates used in UK, btw!!!!) in my State Pension.

Penkoprod

Do expats have voting rights in the UK?

As baby boomers will soon have a majority of votes, there will no doubt be a grey power movement to vote in MPs that support elder's interests.

Once I return to my own homeland, I shall be getting involved in grey power for just such a reason.

As for the tired old argument that there are not enough young people working to pay for it- rubbish- there are millions of educated people in overpopulated countries that would like nothing more than to come and work there!

You're the only one thats mentioned anything about "the tired old argument that there are not enough young people working to pay for it" I certainy havent, so i have to ask why you quoted me in your reply.

Also, if you believe that baby boomers will be forming any kind of majority of voters in the future, then dream on, fella !!!!! Do you seriously think that, out of the nearly 40 million registered voters as of Dec 2009, over half of them are "grey"??????

Then, when you DO come back to these shores you are in for one HECK of a wake-up call, believe me !!!!!

You will then see what a coniving, manipulative bunch of rogues we have had at the helm for the past goodness knows how many years, and just how manipulated and "beat down" the population of the country REALLY are. (probably the reason why most people buggered off in the 1st place)

Penkoprod

The second part of my post was an additional comment, not related to your post. Sorry if not obvious.

Nothing to stop Grey Power having enough influence to elect MPs that would favour the elderly. They don't have to form the government to change things.

As for returning to the UK- no thanks, I'm lucky enough to be able to go to a much more pleasant country when I can't afford health insurance any more, though I'd rather die happy here, than as a sad old lonely fart in some grotty hovel which is all I'll be able to afford back "home".

[Penkoprod]

Once I return to my own homeland, I shall be getting involved in grey power for just such a reason.

The second part of my post was an additional comment, not related to your post. Sorry if not obvious.

Nothing to stop Grey Power having enough influence to elect MPs that would favour the elderly. They don't have to form the government to change things.

As for returning to the UK- no thanks, I'm lucky enough to be able to go to a much more pleasant country when I can't afford health insurance any more, though I'd rather die happy here, than as a sad old lonely fart in some grotty hovel which is all I'll be able to afford back "home".

Quick observation...make yer flipping mind up, will ya ? (Different quotes from same nested quote, emboldenned by me, so you can see them better)

But you're right. Most people wound prefer to die in a much pleasent country (a typo there for cardholder to pick up on )

And THATS what these people are relying on, and they are doing a VERY good job of making the country so appaling to live in that pensioners will turn round and say "screw the paltry increase.....i'm off!!!!!"

Penkoprod

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

a guy with obvious financial security.

<snip>

Not so sure about that. Given the amount of detail he knows about the subject, it sounds to me as though he's investigated this for a long, long time and finally given up. The strange thing is that he appears to object to others trying to rectify this situation.

Dont get me wrong. I am NOT objecting to anyone having a go at trying to fix this, but what i must admit i DO get annoyed with people using the same, flawed arguments that have been thrown out of court, time after time after time, in spite of the fact that they ARE flawed, and then argue that they AREN'T flawed, when its shown to be as plain as a pikestaff that they are.

You (we) need more than that to try to break down a seemingly impregnable wall. We wont get it by using the same moans and rants

Just for the record, i have said very little about my own opinion on the case of expat pensioners (and pensions in general), but i will do now:

Its absolutely derisory, and one that the lawmakers should hang their heads in shame over... but they wont, and neither will they change any rules/laws/regulations or whatever one wants to call them

But thats only my opinion. Do you think that the mandrains of Whitehhall value it? Not in the least !!!!! And same goes for anyone else that thinks they do.

Thats the saddest part of all this

Penkoprod

Thanks for the clarification Penkoprod. (I'd love to know what that name means )

I am a member of BEP - a yahoo group for British expat pensioners. Unfortunately, as you would expect, they are all old guys with not much "get up and go" left in them. They have used the legal route, the "Carson case", writing to their MPs, etc, but to no avail.

I told them that they should get all expats the information necessary so that they could vote - if qualified - in the next general election and then promise any party that rectifies the frozen pension situation that we would all vote for them, irrespective of other politics, left or right or nutcase. That would be a few 100,000 votes - enough to win a close election.

But nothing happened. They were all too busy writing to their (ex-)MPs complaining how they were existing on 50 quid a week when their brother in Canada was living it up on 90.

The only other thing is for a group to chain themselves to Downing street railings like Emily Pankhurst. Or maybe do a "Sae Daeng" on the PM. But chatting to them nicely, like old folks do, ain't gonna get nowhere.

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

Do you think that the mandrains of Whitehhall

<snip>

For the record, it is "Mandarins" of Whitehall

<snip>

I prefer "mandrains".

[Penkoprod]

<snip>

Do you think that the mandrains of Whitehhall

<snip>

For the record, it is "Mandarins" of Whitehall

<snip>

I prefer "mandrains".

Lol !!!

So do i:lol:

[Penkoprod]

I'll take issue with that. It's CHEAPER for the government to have pensioners outside the UK, as they're not occupying council housing, getting free travel, free medical care ( the elderly are the largest users of the NHS ) using services etc etc. If the government had a clue, they'd be doing everything in their power to have as many pensioners as possible emmigrate, even if that entailed paying them pension increases.

I read somewhere the Japanese government were trying to get their pensioners to go elsewhere already.

Again..putting words in my mouth?

I never mentioned costs at all. But, yes, it could work out cheaper, but no one that counts will care whether it does or not.

Like i have said previously, the "powers that be" see pensioners as nothing more than a burden on the welfare state,and people who have outlived their usefulness, sad to say. But, dont forget, most of them (pensioners, that is) wont move very far, and stay in Europe and WILL get increases, so its a moot point really

As for "asking people to work 5 years longer', no we're not, we're just asking for the same deal as we paid taxes all our life for the previous generation. If there's no money in the kitty, it's not our fault. None of us were bankers fiddling the books with government connivance. The money hasn't vanished, someone's got it, get it back. Perhaps putting some bankers ( and gordon ) in jail for the rest of their life for what they did will produce some readies ( I'm just dreaming )!

All i can say to that is i must have read the wrong papers, then

One Two Three Four Five

Anyway, once "Grey Power" takes over, we can change it, and punish the guilty **&^^%!

You REALLY have a thing about this "grey power", dont you????

I 1st heard that expression in the early 70's lol!!!! (Still waiting for it to manifest itself, though)

Penkoprod

[PattayaParent]

^^ couldn't post this in reply, something to do with too many quotes.

Then if the contributions are made from gross salary then like the second question it becomes irrelevant and NOBODY can be excluded by answering no becuase EVERYBODY answers no.

And with regard to the 'contract' providing a State Pension at retirement age based on residency, that is just an arbitrary criteria which can easily be changed and they don't have any real reason not to make the change.

Firstly, no ifs, buts or maybes... State Pension contriibutions come from GROSS income. It doesnt matter how you try and rephrase it, or play semantics. The links i provided are proof positive that this IS the case.........right? ( i won't wait for yours to "prove" that they come from net...deal? )

The only irrelevance is the statement "State Pensions are taxed at source"

Go read my 1st post on here about this, where i wished the OP luck as he might need it.........especially when people sing the same tired old songs, and here we are.......some people singing the same old songs !!!!!!!

Secondly, rather than calling it "arbitrary criteria" how about using the proper phrase for it....... STATUTE OF LAW ??????

Your contributions get you exactly what was put on statute all those years ago (1948 i think)

Your residency determines whether or not you are entitled to yearly increases or not

Again....same old song of " i pay my contributions.......etc, etc" ad nauseum

While you ARE correct in that any law can be changed, it takes the will of the lawmaker to change it

Lets see if there IS that will huh? Each and every time this law has been challenged, have they capitulated and changed it for the good of expat pensioners?

Their whole attitude towards pensioners (those in UK as well as abroad, btw) quite frankly stinks. Their attitude towards expats is even worse!!!!

Put the 2 parts together to get the phrase "expat pensioners" then they get apoplectic, almost. Its like the AntiChrist had come amongst them. Thats not a rant, but the truth as i see it. They will fight tooth and nail if they have to, to deny any change to allow expats any increases. Trouble is, they havent needed to bring out any big artillery, because people that challenge them do so with false, bogus arguments, as i keep pointing out.

Penkoprod

It's irrelevent whether you've paid tax on your contributions or pay tax on your pension if that's the excuse they're using. They're the real false bogus arguments.

They may as well ask the question "Have you ever been to the moon?" - NO, then you don't qualify for an increase in pension unless you live in USA or Philippines.

[Ricardo]

Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more...

I myself prefer "Once more unto the beach, dear friends", it being holiday-time, and all.

I know we're battering our heads against a brick-wall on this, but then we Brits are prone to do that, and at least it gives us something to rant about, in the bar. Speaking of which, time to get my jacket !