Frozen Uk Government Pensions

[PattayaParent]

Ah !!!!! Thats the $64,0000 question !!!!!!!

No one can shed any light on these, only to say that they are "bogus recipricol agreements" or whatever

But yes, its true that expat pensioners retiring to The Philippines get yearly increases as if they were resident in UK

Can i ask why you ask?

If its a case of getting an accomodation address in PI and using that for a way round the problem, then it doesnt have to be PI, but can, just as easily be in France, Italy, Spain etc...ANY country that expat pensioners get it.

I guess it depends on how legal you want to be in the autumn/winter of your life, and how easily you presume the "fraud" is to get away with, and not be detected in your lifetime

Penkoprod

If you were to move to another EU country then the EUSD would kick in and you'd have to pay tax on interest received from any savings / investments that you have so that would probably offset your increase.

I'm surprised that this thread is still going as what Penkoprod says is basically correct, even though we wish it wasn't but there's still no sense in giving up, sign all the petitions you can find and hope that one day someone listens and it benefits our kids / grandkids.

[Penkoprod]

The point I just wanted to make is that, slowly but surely the powers that be are catching up with the cheats ,if expats dont do enuf research for their retirement, it is their own fault to expect to be able to live anywhere overseas on a uk pension is a bitdaft,

And thats what i said (more or less) to which you said i was talking <deleted>. Which left me shaking my head in confusion, tbh. That and the fact that the post you quoted from bore no resemblence to any benefit cheating or whatever....if i'm talking it, then you must be, too.........no? But you're NOT...you're making perfect sense. The net IS closing on the benefit cheats both abroad, and at home here. But, if people want to take their chances, who are we to tell them?

I could even post at least 3 links to provide further evidence of it happening, but i cant be bothered, if all some people are going to do is cheeerlead, and snipe at the info, and try to pick holes in it.

Penkoprod

[Penkoprod]

Ah !!!!! Thats the $64,0000 question !!!!!!!

No one can shed any light on these, only to say that they are "bogus recipricol agreements" or whatever

But yes, its true that expat pensioners retiring to The Philippines get yearly increases as if they were resident in UK

Can i ask why you ask?

If its a case of getting an accomodation address in PI and using that for a way round the problem, then it doesnt have to be PI, but can, just as easily be in France, Italy, Spain etc...ANY country that expat pensioners get it.

I guess it depends on how legal you want to be in the autumn/winter of your life, and how easily you presume the "fraud" is to get away with, and not be detected in your lifetime

Penkoprod

If you were to move to another EU country then the EUSD would kick in and you'd have to pay tax on interest received from any savings / investments that you have so that would probably offset your increase.

I'm surprised that this thread is still going as what Penkoprod says is basically correct, even though we wish it wasn't but there's still no sense in giving up, sign all the petitions you can find and hope that one day someone listens and it benefits our kids / grandkids.

The 1st part of your quote is intersting. I take it you mean this is a witholding tax of some sort, whereby you cant avoid taxes even if you dump a shedload of money in (say) a bank account in Belgium. Thanks for the info, btw. (and i promise not to stir up the pot by mentioning winter cold payments and people living in EEC)

But, as to giving up, all i said to give up was the same old tactics that have been used, and blown out of the water by every government thats been challenged on it. Definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Time for a radical rethink, dont you agree? My suggestion, posted earlier in this thread, and based on 20 years research of the problem of some expat not getting the pension increases, is that the only thing thats effective will be .......rioting in the streets. Worked before with the race riots in the 80's and poll tax riots of the early 90's. THATS the only way i can see of getting an intransigent government to take notice. But if i'm supposed to take to the streets with a gang of cheerleaders who havent even been to see their MPs about it, or done ANYTHING constuctive about it let alone have the guts for a REAL fight, then yes....count me out.

And, yes i know what i'm talking about, because i have done the research on the subject. I'm not blowing my own trumpet, here, but just telling it like it is, and not how we want it, or how it should be. Are people saying i'm wrong in passing on that information, and research results? VERY narrow viewpoint if they are (and some apperar to be doing JUST that...sad to say) Some people seem to have a problem with reality. Reality isnt always our friend, but its reality nontheless (is that spelled right??)

Penkoprod

[Nignoy]

There is no point in protesting any more , the appeals have all been kicked out, it was made very clear to the petitioners that that was the end of it , I am sure any new govt will act the same way too, we have to face it that expats just dont count

[billd766]

There is no point in protesting any more , the appeals have all been kicked out, it was made very clear to the petitioners that that was the end of it , I am sure any new govt will act the same way too, we have to face it that expats just dont count

Alas, sad but very true.

I suspect that the only way we would count would be if 5 or 10 million or more were to descend on the UK before an election and demand what we believe we are owed.

The trouble is there are not that many of us.

[Dave the Dude]

The point that some are trying to make is that history has shown to never give up in a fight for fairness for all. We ALL know it's futile and whats written down but that is not the spirit for some. 10 out of 10 for the OP, people like him make me proud to be English, sorry British. Nobody can say it's fair that one can live say in the USA but not at the North Pole, regardless of what so called arrangements there are. We have foreign terrorists living in the UK, housed and kept by the UK tax payer, why their human rights, total <deleted> and the government is OK with that but when a pensioner can't put his feet up where he or she wants, huh, wheres the human rights there.

Well said!

[cardholder]

There is no point in protesting any more , the appeals have all been kicked out, it was made very clear to the petitioners that that was the end of it , I am sure any new govt will act the same way too, we have to face it that expats just dont count

The point that some are trying to make is that history has shown to never give up in a fight for fairness for all. We ALL know it's futile and whats written down but that is not the spirit for some. 10 out of 10 for the OP, people like him make me proud to be English, sorry British. Nobody can say it's fair that one can live say in the USA but not at the North Pole, regardless of what so called arrangements there are. We have foreign terrorists living in the UK, housed and kept by the UK tax payer, why their human rights, total <deleted> and the government is OK with that but when a pensioner can't put his feet up where he or she wants, huh, wheres the human rights there.

Dunkirk spirit that. :clap2:.

i am not sure that I will ever, again, be proud to be British. However, I agree that the fighting spirit and upholding fairness are "Great British" traits - sadly lacking in many areas (especially governments) now.

[PattayaParent]

There is no point in protesting any more , the appeals have all been kicked out, it was made very clear to the petitioners that that was the end of it , I am sure any new govt will act the same way too, we have to face it that expats just dont count

Alas, sad but very true.

I suspect that the only way we would count would be if 5 or 10 million or more were to descend on the UK before an election and demand what we believe we are owed.

The trouble is there are not that many of us.

If you take the narrow count of pensioners living overseas that are affected.

But count also their children and grandchildren, their friends, their children and grandchildren's friends and any other people that may even be considering retirement overseas in the future and the numbers will increase dramatically.

The message just has to be publicised.

[PattayaParent]

Ah !!!!! Thats the $64,0000 question !!!!!!!

No one can shed any light on these, only to say that they are "bogus recipricol agreements" or whatever

But yes, its true that expat pensioners retiring to The Philippines get yearly increases as if they were resident in UK

Can i ask why you ask?

If its a case of getting an accomodation address in PI and using that for a way round the problem, then it doesnt have to be PI, but can, just as easily be in France, Italy, Spain etc...ANY country that expat pensioners get it.

I guess it depends on how legal you want to be in the autumn/winter of your life, and how easily you presume the "fraud" is to get away with, and not be detected in your lifetime

Penkoprod

If you were to move to another EU country then the EUSD would kick in and you'd have to pay tax on interest received from any savings / investments that you have so that would probably offset your increase.

I'm surprised that this thread is still going as what Penkoprod says is basically correct, even though we wish it wasn't but there's still no sense in giving up, sign all the petitions you can find and hope that one day someone listens and it benefits our kids / grandkids.

The 1st part of your quote is intersting. I take it you mean this is a witholding tax of some sort, whereby you cant avoid taxes even if you dump a shedload of money in (say) a bank account in Belgium. Thanks for the info, btw. (and i promise not to stir up the pot by mentioning winter cold payments and people living in EEC)

Penkoprod

Yes, it's a witholding tax of 20% (to rise to 30%) or you have to allow the bank to report your income to your home government.

It only applies to EU citizens resident in EU countries though.

[BAYBOY]

Have followed this with interest.

I am from New Zealand and last month turned 65. At this age New Zealanders can apply for their State Pension. A few months previous I inquired the procedure for one living in Thailand and was told no pension was available because at age 65 I would be deemed a resident of Thailand not N.Z.

To receive the pension, one must be resident in N.Z. at age 65 or resident in one of 8 countries that N.Z. has pension payment agreements with. ( Britain, Canada, Australia, Denmark, Greece, are some) Thailand is not one of these. Sadly most NZers living in Australia don't get the NZ pension, as there it is asset /income tested.

Once you have been accepted you will receive payment till death and any increases in payment are payable to all pensioners.

Last year the Govt. changed the rules of "portability" so that any person granted the pension can move to live any where in the world and continue to receive payment ( and increases) till death, with out ever returning to N.Z.

My complaint is that before leaving N.Z in 2006, I spoke with the Pension Dept and was told that I would receive half a pension as I was going to Thailand and not one of the 8 selected countries. Now I find that I receive zero

You pay taxes for 40 plus years and get zilch.

If I had stayed in N.Z. till this year , turned 65, then came here I would be getting approx 10500 baht a fortnight and increases as they are made.

If I had married an English girl ( instead of a Thai) and lived in the UK , again granted.

I have written to the Minister in charge of pensions pointing out the unfairness of the payment system and the reply was a general airy fairy negative response.

At least you Brits living here can get some payment of your pension

BAYBOY

[rgs2001uk]

There is no point in protesting any more , the appeals have all been kicked out, it was made very clear to the petitioners that that was the end of it , I am sure any new govt will act the same way too, we have to face it that expats just dont count

The point that some are trying to make is that history has shown to never give up in a fight for fairness for all. We ALL know it's futile and whats written down but that is not the spirit for some. 10 out of 10 for the OP, people like him make me proud to be English, sorry British. Nobody can say it's fair that one can live say in the USA but not at the North Pole, regardless of what so called arrangements there are. We have foreign terrorists living in the UK, housed and kept by the UK tax payer, why their human rights, total <deleted> and the government is OK with that but when a pensioner can't put his feet up where he or she wants, huh, wheres the human rights there.

I mentioned before in a previous posting, its all about numbers.

Not going to argue with the above (dont even get me started on it), however I would venture to say these "new brits" probably outnumber the pensioners affected by this national disgrace.

These are the people the politicians now pander to because its these ethnics that will vote for them, thus enabling these newcomers to our shores to push for more of their loafer family members to come and sponge off the taxpayer, and the taxpayers who have gone before.

Can only say, thankfully Joanna Lumley never gave up, and the Gurkhas finally got what they deserved, people who fought and died for us, yet were treated like shit by the same politicians who allow the MAC to protest at a homecoming parade for British troops in Barking Essex, screaming hate and brandishing vile placards at the troops.

[thaibeachlovers]

Have followed this with interest.

I am from New Zealand and last month turned 65. At this age New Zealanders can apply for their State Pension. A few months previous I inquired the procedure for one living in Thailand and was told no pension was available because at age 65 I would be deemed a resident of Thailand not N.Z.

To receive the pension, one must be resident in N.Z. at age 65 or resident in one of 8 countries that N.Z. has pension payment agreements with. ( Britain, Canada, Australia, Denmark, Greece, are some) Thailand is not one of these. Sadly most NZers living in Australia don't get the NZ pension, as there it is asset /income tested.

Once you have been accepted you will receive payment till death and any increases in payment are payable to all pensioners.

Last year the Govt. changed the rules of "portability" so that any person granted the pension can move to live any where in the world and continue to receive payment ( and increases) till death, with out ever returning to N.Z.

My complaint is that before leaving N.Z in 2006, I spoke with the Pension Dept and was told that I would receive half a pension as I was going to Thailand and not one of the 8 selected countries. Now I find that I receive zero

You pay taxes for 40 plus years and get zilch.

If I had stayed in N.Z. till this year , turned 65, then came here I would be getting approx 10500 baht a fortnight and increases as they are made.

If I had married an English girl ( instead of a Thai) and lived in the UK , again granted.

I have written to the Minister in charge of pensions pointing out the unfairness of the payment system and the reply was a general airy fairy negative response.

At least you Brits living here can get some payment of your pension

BAYBOY

Sorry that you missed out, but the rules were available.

If I remember rightly, you must live in NZ for at least 20 years, and after 50 (55?) must spend 5 years in NZ or a country with reciprocal pension rights such as the UK.

Should you qualify on those points you could just go home and apply for the pension, then leave again, unless they have a rule against that. I never saw anything in writing about must be in NZ when turning 65, though I think you must apply 6 months before receiving it. I think some of those so called advisors make up things which are not correct according to written policy. I read that if you live in Thailand you were indeed allowed a half pension.

If you are in Thailand on a NZ passport you have the right to go live in NZ, and therefore should receive a pension.

I didn't realise they had changed the rules of portability, which is good news for me, at least.

I'm sure the written policy is on the government website, or you can get them to post you a copy.

Have you tried the embassy? They must know the rules, though I'd ask for a NZ official, as the locals seemed hopeless, when I went there.

Off topic, but how do you get on for health insurance here? I heard it was just about impossible to afford over 65.

Edited July 5, 2010 by thaibeachlovers

[Nignoy]

the comments about british fighting spirit and loyalty to their country, is really a bit old hat, and I think there are afew million veterans and exservicemen who will agree with me, many of us who have served and been injured and disabled through our services and then been abandoned by the country we cherished, who have to fight for every penny of our pensions and decent medical treatment, acountry that puts you on such long surgery waiting lists that many die before getting their operations,acountry where the lame and the lazy get treated better than the old folk,with right the australians say how do you know when a planeful of brits has landed, because 2 hours after the engines are turned off it is still whineing!the common cry is the immigrants are taking our jobs, maybe! but many are willing to work for the privilege to stay in england,everyone should get used to living in the present, the days of the Raj are gone, the great has gone out of britain now we are just a small poor island country living alongside other european poor countries with the same problems. Do I love my country of course I do, do I still call it home and sometimes miss it when I am away of course I do,does it owe me anything more than it can ever repay, but does it worry me nope my wife and I live our lives for us we saw england was going no where in the 90,s so we packed up and left like so many others did , we went where trade slills and knowledge were needed and made a new life , so if our brit pension goes up it goes up if it stays as it is who gives a fxxx :jap:

[simon43]

Penkoprod said (concerning my question about UK pensions being index-linked in the PI.....

Can i ask why you ask?

If its a case of getting an accomodation address in PI and using that for a way round the problem, then it doesnt have to be PI, but can, just as easily be in France, Italy, Spain etc...ANY country that expat pensioners get it.

I guess it depends on how legal you want to be in the autumn/winter of your life, and how easily you presume the "fraud" is to get away with, and not be detected in your lifetime

Thanks for the slur on my character. My question borne out of simple curiousity. I am neither retired, nor close to retirement, and I do not currently qualify for a full UK pension anyway, because I failed to contribute enough during my working years in the UK (contract employment).

Were it worthwhile to receive the index-linked pension, I would relocate to a country where such linking was authorized.

For those who are not yet retired, I would certainly advise not to place any faith in any government to honour their promises about paying pensions. Far better to stuff your money under the mattress (figuratively-speaking).

The only contact that I had with the UK pensions office was to ask them for a statement of how much additional payment I would need to make, in order to bring my UK pension contributions up to date. That department never replied to me, but I received a tax demand for 770 GBP! Since I have not been working in the UK since 2002, I have declined to pay their tax claim. So I guess that they will also not be offering any pension to me either.

Simon

[Penkoprod]

There is no point in protesting any more , the appeals have all been kicked out, it was made very clear to the petitioners that that was the end of it , I am sure any new govt will act the same way too, we have to face it that expats just dont count

Alas, sad but very true.

I suspect that the only way we would count would be if 5 or 10 million or more were to descend on the UK before an election and demand what we believe we are owed.

The trouble is there are not that many of us.

If you take the narrow count of pensioners living overseas that are affected.

But count also their children and grandchildren, their friends, their children and grandchildren's friends and any other people that may even be considering retirement overseas in the future and the numbers will increase dramatically.

The message just has to be publicised.

Unfortunatly, theres 2 flies in the ointment, no matter how you wish your would numbers stack up.

Those 2 are the British government and the majority of the British public. Both of whom hate expats guts and despise/detest them with a vengence. There will always be a majority of people willing to "stay and tough it out through thick and thin times...lean and fat times" In their eyes some of "the ranks" have either pissed off already or are planning to for whatever adgenda we have/had.....

Taking our pots with us, so it cant be touched by Team "GB" And now they see you asking for more to be put into the pot for you. Again....thats the reality of it

The truth is, that, for every one of us that have, or is seriously planning to leave, there will be 3 queueing up to take our place. The galling part is that even those that turn up on these shores illegally are thought of in a better light than an expat. Just think, an Eritrean refugee that comes to UK in the hidden in the back of a container lorry is thought better of than any expat, or potential one, for that matter. Not a nice feeling, but.the truth.

I dont know how long you have been out of the country, but i suspect its too long, if you think what i have been describing isnt factual, then maybe you should come back for a long holiday and see, and hear for yourself?

Dont read me wrong, here. I cant wait to piss off too....but at least i am being honest with myself and not being a follower of Jude the Apostle, or expecting others to take up my fight for me.

Penkoprod

[Penkoprod]

Penkoprod said (concerning my question about UK pensions being index-linked in the PI.....

Can i ask why you ask?

If its a case of getting an accomodation address in PI and using that for a way round the problem, then it doesnt have to be PI, but can, just as easily be in France, Italy, Spain etc...ANY country that expat pensioners get it.

I guess it depends on how legal you want to be in the autumn/winter of your life, and how easily you presume the "fraud" is to get away with, and not be detected in your lifetime

Thanks for the slur on my character. My question borne out of simple curiousity. I am neither retired, nor close to retirement, and I do not currently qualify for a full UK pension anyway, because I failed to contribute enough during my working years in the UK (contract employment).

Were it worthwhile to receive the index-linked pension, I would relocate to a country where such linking was authorized.

For those who are not yet retired, I would certainly advise not to place any faith in any government to honour their promises about paying pensions. Far better to stuff your money under the mattress (figuratively-speaking).

The only contact that I had with the UK pensions office was to ask them for a statement of how much additional payment I would need to make, in order to bring my UK pension contributions up to date. That department never replied to me, but I received a tax demand for 770 GBP! Since I have not been working in the UK since 2002, I have declined to pay their tax claim. So I guess that they will also not be offering any pension to me either.

Simon

And my question was bourne out of simple curiosity, too

Your selective pasting ommited where i answered your question. And then i went on to general advice to anyone reading the thread, either now or in the future, of the pitfalls and illiegality of doing so. No slur intended, and i'm sorry you feel it was.

Penkoprod

[Penkoprod]

the comments about british fighting spirit and loyalty to their country, is really a bit old hat, and I think there are afew million veterans and exservicemen who will agree with me, many of us who have served and been injured and disabled through our services and then been abandoned by the country we cherished, who have to fight for every penny of our pensions and decent medical treatment, acountry that puts you on such long surgery waiting lists that many die before getting their operations,acountry where the lame and the lazy get treated better than the old folk,with right the australians say how do you know when a planeful of brits has landed, because 2 hours after the engines are turned off it is still whineing!the common cry is the immigrants are taking our jobs, maybe! but many are willing to work for the privilege to stay in england,everyone should get used to living in the present, the days of the Raj are gone, the great has gone out of britain now we are just a small poor island country living alongside other european poor countries with the same problems. Do I love my country of course I do, do I still call it home and sometimes miss it when I am away of course I do,does it owe me anything more than it can ever repay, but does it worry me nope my wife and I live our lives for us we saw england was going no where in the 90,s so we packed up and left like so many others did , we went where trade slills and knowledge were needed and made a new life , so if our brit pension goes up it goes up if it stays as it is who gives a fxxx :jap:

Well said !!!!!!!

Another healthy dose of reality :clap2:

Penkoprod

[Nignoy]

the comments about british fighting spirit and loyalty to their country, is really a bit old hat, and I think there are afew million veterans and exservicemen who will agree with me, many of us who have served and been injured and disabled through our services and then been abandoned by the country we cherished, who have to fight for every penny of our pensions and decent medical treatment, acountry that puts you on such long surgery waiting lists that many die before getting their operations,acountry where the lame and the lazy get treated better than the old folk,with right the australians say how do you know when a planeful of brits has landed, because 2 hours after the engines are turned off it is still whineing!the common cry is the immigrants are taking our jobs, maybe! but many are willing to work for the privilege to stay in england,everyone should get used to living in the present, the days of the Raj are gone, the great has gone out of britain now we are just a small poor island country living alongside other european poor countries with the same problems. Do I love my country of course I do, do I still call it home and sometimes miss it when I am away of course I do,does it owe me anything more than it can ever repay, but does it worry me nope my wife and I live our lives for us we saw england was going no where in the 90,s so we packed up and left like so many others did , we went where trade slills and knowledge were needed and made a new life , so if our brit pension goes up it goes up if it stays as it is who gives a fxxx :jap:

Well said !!!!!!!

Another healthy dose of reality :clap2:

Penkoprod

It would seem that you are getting pleasure from your negative comments to the OP's quest and enjoy comments from those with little or no interest in the subject, in fact it looks almost anti pensioner from your posts. Perhaps sitting in the UK, you are envious of those who are not. Just my feeling. Strange no response from you about J. Lumley's FUTILE quest as you seem to know everything about government documentation.

Perhaps the fighting spirit will become a thing of the past for SOME but because you've lost yours, please don't cast the rest that haven't in the same light..

Dont think my comments are negative, just truthful !! my father went to his grave fighting for better treatment for returned soldiers and their families ,he was a seniour official in the welfare branch of the combined British Legion , but today our green and pleasant land has turned into a grey land where grey people are trying to escape in their 1ooo,s to other countries and better themselves, sadly many wear rosecoloured glasses and dont do the maths first,after 4 or 5 years the glasses are gone and so is the thai dream when the money starts getting tight, Each person is responsible for their own future, and contrary to common opinion, the UK Govt does not owe ane one a living :jap:

[Nignoy]

OF course it is discrimination!!, have you ever thought the foreigners that come to england they come to work and create a new living, not sit on their <deleted> and wait for government hand outs, in all corners of the world you can come across expat brits who have done the same thing, who if when and if they ever recieve a british age pension are very happy with the amount they recieve !! and dont spend the twilight of their lives whinging to one and all that if they were back in UK or a RECIPROCAL COUNTRY they would recieve more allowances well Boo fxxxing Hoo if you arent happy with what you get Move somewhere where you are

[cardholder]

Each person is responsible for their own future, and contrary to common opinion, the UK Govt does not owe ane one a living :jap:

. The world is getting smaller, UK chooses to employ people in hospitals etc from countries all over the world and not on their list. So what happens to a Thai (or other nationality) nurse, works in UK hospital, pays her taxes and NI, retires, goes back to Thailand and is told no increase for you, your not on our list. Fair or not fair, Yes-No ?

.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________-

Question 1 - No one says the Govt owes anyone a living. This is about fairness for ALL people who have 'paid in' to the system (Nat Ins system) and qualify for a pension payment. It is about equitable treatment of ALL who are entitled - and NOT being disadvantaged by where they choose to live.

question 2: NOT Fair - see answer to Q1, they have 'paid in' should get equal treatment.

[cardholder]

Each person is responsible for their own future, and contrary to common opinion, the UK Govt does not owe ane one a living :jap:

. The world is getting smaller, UK chooses to employ people in hospitals etc from countries all over the world and not on their list. So what happens to a Thai (or other nationality) nurse, works in UK hospital, pays her taxes and NI, retires, goes back to Thailand and is told no increase for you, your not on our list. Fair or not fair, Yes-No ?

.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________-

Question 1 - No one says the Govt owes anyone a living. This is about fairness for ALL people who have 'paid in' to the system (Nat Ins system) and qualify for a pension payment. It is about equitable treatment of ALL who are entitled - and NOT being disadvantaged by where they choose to live.

question 2: NOT Fair - see answer to Q1, they have 'paid in' should get equal treatment.

Please note, the first sentance under my name does NOT belong to me.

Sorry, Transam - my fault I can't get to grips with the number of quotes when replying

[Nignoy]

:jap:the point is everyone who is of pensionable age now has paid their dues, of course it isnt fair that it makes a fifference in what country you live in to what payment you get, there are over 3million expats in australia and new zealand in the same boat as expats living in thailand, if they ignore the 3million protesters here they sure as shooting are not going to pay any attention to not even 15,000 old farts in thailand I know its not fair I know it is discrimination but nobdy in UK gives a Fxxx

[MB1]

OF course it is discrimination!!, have you ever thought the foreigners that come to england they come to work and create a new living, not sit on their <deleted> and wait for government hand outs, in all corners of the world you can come across expat brits who have done the same thing, who if when and if they ever recieve a british age pension are very happy with the amount they recieve !! and dont spend the twilight of their lives whinging to one and all that if they were back in UK or a RECIPROCAL COUNTRY they would recieve more allowances well Boo fxxxing Hoo if you arent happy with what you get Move somewhere where you are

Sorry chum, but you will never, never understand what the topic is about. I have tried.

I know your not talking to me, but think I understand what the topic is about, infact I tried explaing facts on another thread to some people and provided links to the House of Commons Library where a piece gave history of pensions and reciprocal agreements but some people refuse to understand the history and reasons as to why some pensions are frozen when leaving the UK.

They have fought in court and lost, then gone to higher courts and still lose but still keep trying to get the Government to change their mind, well IMO it aint going to happen and rightly so.

People have been banging their bins lids shouting out about how unfair it is since the early 60's but no Government has agreed with them, my my how bad eh..:>)

Thing is, if people had of researched what pension rights they had when leaving the UK to live overseas they would of known why their pension could be frozen, but guess what ?, they'd still be complaining about how unfair it is.

Well IMO it's tough, they chose to leave and go to a country where no reciprocal agreements exist, it was their choice so live with it, no one has lied to them or forced them to leave the UK and they receive what the law says their entitled to receive.

Pensions were introduced in 1925 and were only payable in the UK, NI and Isle of Man,later things changed in 1929 which allowed payment in certain Commonwealth Countries.

Starting in 1948 the UK Government entered into reciprocal agreements with some 30 countries which allowed increases in pensions to be payable abroad in the countries where reciprocal agreements are in place.

Sorry guys but Thailand aint one of them..

HTH.

Edited July 7, 2010 by MB1

[MB1]

Oh so I don't understand what the topic is about because you say so, lmao..

The topic is about the frozen pensions which are not payable in certain countries due to no reciprocal agreement in certain countries, but if you don't agree with the protesters participating in this topic who think it's unfair then keep out of the topic as you aint got a clue what the topic is about.

Cheers Transam, my laugh of the day thanks to you. :jap:

Edited July 7, 2010 by MB1

[MB1]

Oh so I don't understand what the topic is about because you say so, lmao..

The topic is about the frozen pensions which are not payable in certain countries due to no reciprocal agreement in certain countries but if you dont agree with the protesters participating in this topic who think it's unfair then keep out of the topic as you aint got a clue what the topic is about.

Cheers Transam, my laugh of the day thanks to you. :jap:

But you do not know what the OP's topic is about, we all KNOW about reciprical agreements, it's been discussed at leeeeeength, it's about fairness to all that have paid the same taxes and want to put their feet up where ever they want with the same pension

.

Scenario,

A foreigner comes to UK, is employed by the government, nurse etc, cos they need them, pays tax and N.I., retires, goes back home to their own country and is told, no pension increase for you, not on our list. Fair, Yes or No.

Lots of things in life are considered unfair by some, this unfairness you talk about with regards to pensions has been happening since 1946 when a pension increase was not paid to pensioners who lived abroad, people can keep on banging their bins lids and shouting out from the tree tops until their blue in the face about how unfair it is, but how things are in the UK at the moment with massive Government spending cuts planned don't expect the new Government to overturn the decision which was ruled legal by more than one court and pay pensioners an increase to their pensions who live abroad in countries not entitled to them by law.

As to your "scenario".

If there is no increase to their pensions because thats what the law says if they leave the country because they live in a country where no reciprocal agreement exists then thats the way it is, same same for all the others. "FROZEN".

Anyway enjoy your crusade and have a nice day.

[JohnLeech]

the comments about british fighting spirit and loyalty to their country, is really a bit old hat, and I think there are afew million veterans and exservicemen who will agree with me, many of us who have served and been injured and disabled through our services and then been abandoned by the country we cherished, .......

.....................

"a few million" ? I rather doubt it - and although there will always be mistakes and some who slip through the net, British veterans and ex-servicemen, particularly those who are genuinely "injured and disabled through our services" are seldom "abandoned" by their country.

Go into the pubs, clubs and public meeting places, go into the shops, factories and offices throughout the land, and you will find the reason why. That the majority of the British public are vehemently OPPOSED to pensioners "in far away paradises" getting any increases at all. In fact some of the most staunchest opponants are saying they (we) are lucky to be granted ANY pension whatsoever.

I too see it as unfair, but I can at least see the argument often put forward that those pensioners in UK are still paying tax, in the form of VAT, while we are not.

Somebody else who doesn't understand what the TOPIC is about. We ALL KNOW whats written down, same as Joana Lumley knew what was written down in the Gurkha debate, which she won, the topic is about fairness, same as the Gurkhas.

I can't quite see the connection between "the Gurkha debate" and the topic, but just to put the record straight as so many posts on Gurkhas have already been made in this topic:

What was "written down" in 1947 in the Tripartite Agreement between Nepal, India and Britain (and later Singapore) concerning the recruiting, employment and payment of Nepalese (Gurkhas) serving in the Indian and British Armies and the Singapore Police was and is very clear, and has nothing to do with putting them on the same pay scales and conditions as British troops and giving them British citizenship - in fact the reverse is true. The agreement specifies that they must be paid the same as Nepalese troops, however this had been circumvented by giving them vastly increased allowances specific only to them, such as Married Unaccompanied Gurkha Allowance (MUGA), which put their monthly pay on the same scale (frequently higher) as their British counterparts.

By formally breaking that agreement Britain has given the green light to Nepal's new Maoist led government to legally and perfecly legitimately end the agreement, as it has always said it intends to do - hardly something which is in the long term interests of past or present Gurkhas.

The "debt" owed by Britain to the Gurkhas for their service has always been paid in full, making retired ex-British Army Gurkhas amongst the wealthiest in their country - on a par with the 2,000 serving in the Gurkha Contingent, Singapore police, and far wealthier than the 100,000 serving in the Indian Army .

For the record on "fairness", those who supported Joanna Lumley were almost certainly unaware not only of the Tripartite Agreement and the effect that breaking it could have but also of some of the more recent events in the Brigade of Gurkhas' somewhat mixed history - such as their military incompetence when deployed to the Falklands in1982, to the extent that they could not be deployed; widespread corruption when it was found that 70% of the Brigade were or had claimed MUGA when they were unmarried, resulting in the loss of millions of pounds and a full amnesty; the attempted murders of a British Company Commander and his Gurkha 2i/c after a drunken Company party in 1986, resulting in the "administrative discharge" of the entire company of 111 - the largest mutiny in British Army history, although it was kept quiet and none were charged; and the successful (but unsolved) murder of another British Company Commander three years later with a grenade in his desk drawer when he found out too much about Gurkhas smuggling gold from Hong Kong to Nepal.

"Fair"? Is it fair that Gurkhas now, due to their deployment in Brunei and as demonstration troops, not only spend half the time deployed operationally that their British counterparts do but also take home more due to overseas allowances than British troops, and get more leave as they are still entitled to an additional 6 months "long leave" every three years?

[Penkoprod]

Question 1 - No one says the Govt owes anyone a living. This is about fairness for ALL people who have 'paid in' to the system (Nat Ins system) and qualify for a pension payment. It is about equitable treatment of ALL who are entitled - and NOT being disadvantaged by where they choose to live.

question 2: NOT Fair - see answer to Q1, they have 'paid in' should get equal treatment.

You keep on and on and on about how unfair it is and how "they have paid in"......right?

Well lets look at it again shall we?

Firstly, you get what you contributed to, at a level commensurate with the level one gets out on retirement...in as much as you (and everyone else that has, or will reach the State Pension Age) will get a basic State pension, which is (for single person) £97.65 per week as of April 6th 2010. This can be increased by various means, whatever they might be...to somewhere around the £110 mark, or thereabouts. You contributed, and thats what you get. No more, but certainly no less. And that, fella, is where your journey ends, contribution wise.

My next door-but one neighbour, however STILL contributes, even though he recieves his OAP (and, of course whatever other pensions and investments he has) He owns a car, and has just renewed his Vehicle Tax, at a cost of £ 205.00 for the year, and therefore made a direct contribution to the government pot ......where's your Vehicle Tax contribution?????

He filled his car up the other day and it came to £70+. Goodness knows how much of that £70 went in excise duty and VAT, paid direct to government funds..... wheres your contributions????

Because i blagged a Makro card a while ago, i take him to do a "monthly shop" there whenever he wants. The bill for him last month was something in the region of £150. Broken down into VAT rated, and zero rated items. The VAT rated items came to £14.26, and, again, went into the pot.....Where's your VAT contribution????

And to keep going on about it being one of unfairness, then guess what, sunshine? LIFE'S unfair !!! Not just what you believe to be unfair about this case, but from the moment we are born, to the day we die. Whats the expression? "life's a bitch, then you die" i think. We can go one of 2 ways, here. We can fight and be a crusader for each and every injustice we see on lifes highway, Or we can play the cards we have been dealt with. But dont piss about cherrypicking those that only affect us, huh?. As that can be seen as selfish..

For instance, where were you in May 2002, when this 1st came to national prominence, by a case being heard in the High Court? What were you doing for "the cause" at that time? Where were you in June of 2003, when it went to the Court of Appeal? Where were you when it had its readings in The House of Lords...the last reading being in May 2005?

Were you marching on Downing Street, pitchfork and petition in hand, with throngs of fellow protesters denonstrating in various towns and cities throughout the UK?

Or was it a case of "hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil, life's a gas with the Pound at 64, 70, and 73 on those dates respectively"? A case of "weather hot, women hotter, food cheap and even hotter BBQ sizzling, beer cold...wish you were here?

But NOW that the Pound has gone down to below 50 Baht, and some forecasts suggest it might not have bottomed out yet, and might well fall to pre 1997 levels, its "squeeky bum time".

No one forced you, or anyone else to go to Thailand to retire. You weren't hit over the head with a blackjack and woke up in the brig of a "slow boat to Bangkok" were you? You went of your own free volition, and under your own steam. Just because the Pound has gone down the shitter and more likely to take a lot of people with it, doesn't entitle them to scream "UNFAIR....WHHAAAAAA!!!!!!" at every opportunity.And you SHOULD have been aware of the rules before you left. If you didnt know them.....tough titty. Time to "take yer lumps" and get on with it, and accept the rules that have ALWAYS been in place, regarding anyone who retires to Thailand, or other such countries.

Penkoprod

[cardholder]

You keep on and on and on about how unfair it is and how "they have paid in"......right?

Well lets look at it again shall we?

Firstly, you get what you contributed to, at a level commensurate with the level one gets out on retirement...in as much as you (and everyone else that has, or will reach the State Pension Age) will get a basic State pension, which is (for single person) £97.65 per week as of April 6th 2010. This can be increased by various means, whatever they might be...to somewhere around the £110 mark, or thereabouts. You contributed, and thats what you get. No more, but certainly no less. And that, fella, is where your journey ends, contribution wise.

My next door-but one neighbour, however STILL contributes, even though he recieves his OAP (and, of course whatever other pensions and investments he has) He owns a car, and has just renewed his Vehicle Tax, at a cost of £ 205.00 for the year, and therefore made a direct contribution to the government pot ......where's your Vehicle Tax contribution?????

He filled his car up the other day and it came to £70+. Goodness knows how much of that £70 went in excise duty and VAT, paid direct to government funds..... wheres your contributions????

You really do talk <deleted>.

If your neighbour is" still contributing after receiving his pension" you are full of sh!te.

Enough anyway. I don't NEED the pension, I have myself covered.BUT,. I am entitled so I will take what I am allowed to take from the government. Should they <deleted> me on "residency" rest assured I will take some tax advantage back from them to balance my books.

[Penkoprod]

You keep on and on and on about how unfair it is and how "they have paid in"......right?

Well lets look at it again shall we?

Firstly, you get what you contributed to, at a level commensurate with the level one gets out on retirement...in as much as you (and everyone else that has, or will reach the State Pension Age) will get a basic State pension, which is (for single person) £97.65 per week as of April 6th 2010. This can be increased by various means, whatever they might be...to somewhere around the £110 mark, or thereabouts. You contributed, and thats what you get. No more, but certainly no less. And that, fella, is where your journey ends, contribution wise.

My next door-but one neighbour, however STILL contributes, even though he recieves his OAP (and, of course whatever other pensions and investments he has) He owns a car, and has just renewed his Vehicle Tax, at a cost of £ 205.00 for the year, and therefore made a direct contribution to the government pot ......where's your Vehicle Tax contribution?????

He filled his car up the other day and it came to £70+. Goodness knows how much of that £70 went in excise duty and VAT, paid direct to government funds..... wheres your contributions????

You really do talk <deleted>.

If your neighbour is" still contributing after receiving his pension" you are full of sh!te.

Enough anyway. I don't NEED the pension, I have myself covered.BUT,. I am entitled so I will take what I am allowed to take from the government. Should they <deleted> me on "residency" rest assured I will take some tax advantage back from them to balance my books.

Truth hurts, huh, fella?

[cardholder]

Truth hurts, huh, fella?

truth ?

Mai khao Jai.