Frozen Uk Government Pensions

[prakhonchai nick]

And that's PRECISELY what the OP ( and every man-Jack of us, for that matter) get at SPA (State Retirement Age)

Made up of various componants:

The Index Linked Increase is based on residency. Some are age related

Penkoprod

If ALL expats were treated the same (i.e. all pensions were frozen) there would not be so much to complain about. But why should some receive increases (?Phillipines?) and others -predominantly Commonwealth countries -not.

Penkoprod would be an asset to HM British government. Perhaps he is on their books and is paid to infiltrate this forum and brainwash us all!

[MB1]

Peekaboo.....

Penkoprod would be an asset to HM British government. Perhaps he is on their books and is paid to infiltrate this forum and brainwash us all!

Before your able to brainwash people you need to find a brain to brainwash, sadly that is not happening with certain people on this thread/topic, I have a saying....."Engage brain before typing finger".

HTH,

Edited July 10, 2010 by MB1

[cardholder]

No the UK Government does not owe anyone a living. But they do owe them a Pension,and after paying their NI contributions for 44 years a full Pension at that,which is what the OP intended to point out.

They get the pension they were entitled to when they reached pensionable age, so the government don't owe them a pension as it's being paid to them at the rate set by legislation, and if a pensioner decides to up sticks and move abroad and become an expat in a country with no reciprocal agreement then he/she receives the amount that is allowed to be paid by law and the pension is frozen.

It's as simple as that.

Now we are getting to a consensus:-

We are owed a pension by the UK government, subject to qualifications rules (equitable and fair across the board).

Those living in areas previously specified do not qualify for annual increases (not equitable and not fair).

The case for equitable treatment has gone as far as it can, an unfair decision - IMHO. (End of legal process)

The facts seem to be accepted by everybody - the differences of opinion stem from whether there is a fair and equitable application of pension rules.

Increase, or no increase, would not affect my retirement decision. For now I have chosen Thailand and adequate provision has been made so as not to rely on the State Pension. This is fortunate/prudent as I suspect that the payment date will be put back even further before I actually draw the OAP.

[cardholder]

Then you go on to say you'll take a tax advantage to balance your books, do you mean cook em and fiddle the tax man, it's that sort of attitude that has enraged many UK residents, me included, on visits to Thailand I've met many people who claim benifits of some sort or people who are on the fiddle but when it come down to it they don't give a flying duck and don't really care about the country they come from, all they want to do is to claim as much as possible from the UK and use it to fund a lifestyle abroad....Is that fair...?

of the UK.

Apologies MB1, I have now found your question (I had previously responded to somebody else's question about "fair".

No this is NOT fair. I imagine that I, like you, despise people who fraudulently claim benefits then go to Thailand/Spain/Vietnam et al. They are a drain on diminishing resources. I have paid into the system for almost 40 years (and am still paying in).

I have to admit that I no longer really care for the country that I come from. That country does not give a flying fart about me and will positively discriminate in favour of a number groups that, I believe, should receive favour. I will take every advantage that I can LEGITIMATELY take .

[billd766]

Think it pointless continuing with the topic as the few members that are totally against fairness for all pensioners is obvious, especially with their derogatory comments pointed to wards the old who might be following the thread. Obviously youngsters having fun, so l would suggest let it rest as the same garbage will come to the fore from them. They still don't understand the OP topic about fairness, just quoting the governments and others words, but they think it is fair that pensioners are not treated the same because somebody says so and really haven't got the balls to say ''Thats not fair ''.

Also, now you pay NI for 30 years to qualify for full state pension.

As a pensioner I am in favour of fairness and equality for ALL state pensioners everywhere.

However the governments that have been in power in the UK since 1948 put this rule into place and it can ONLY be changed by an act of Parliament I think.

None of the parties that have been in power since that time are interested in changing the status quo as it will cost a large sum of money to do so (or a small sum in the overall costs of running the country).

Certainly since the Tory/Liberal win this year and the opening up of the books under 13 years of Labour misrule (which is what they said of the Tories a few years ago) the money just isn't there so they have to economise everywhere.

Expats rarely vote and if I had voted last time my 1 lonely vote would have made no difference.

At the end of the day it doesn't really matter what expat pensioners want as they are a small proportion of the overall voters and are out of sight and out of mind.

Fair is not usually a word found in politics sad to say.

Penkoprod IS just stating the obvious in what he says.

If a few years ago I had thought that I would divorce my UK wife, Marry a Thai girl and want to spend the rest of my life in Thailand maybe I would have planned things differently.

I didn't and I now sadly have to live within my means but here in Thailand I can live more comfortably than in the UK UNLESS the UK cuts off ALL state pensions and then perhaps something will be done.

But I won't hold my breath on that one.

I am now officially old and I don't have to save the world anymore.

[cdnvic]

A ridiculous post that was nothing more than name calling and abuse deleted, along with those quoting it.

[cardholder]

A ridiculous post that was nothing more than name calling and abuse deleted, along with those quoting it.

I fear that is all that is left in the last legs of this topic.

[Penkoprod]

If ALL expats were treated the same (i.e. all pensions were frozen) there would not be so much to complain about. But why should some receive increases (?Phillipines?) and others -predominantly Commonwealth countries -not.

Penkoprod would be an asset to HM British government. Perhaps he is on their books and is paid to infiltrate this forum and brainwash us all!

OK, let me try it THIS way

Can you not see that, by what you say, and the thinking behind it, you are contributing to the REASON why expat pensioners will always face impossible odds in trying to get anywhere?? And never get that "sense of fairness" shown to them that some on here seem to crave, and feel they're being treated unfairly. Like i and others keep pointing out, life itself throws up more and more important, and worse instances of unfairness than whats happening to people who knew the rules before they made their move, but chose to ignore them.

By the very nature of what you say, and the thought behind it (if i cant have it, then no one should is whats screaming out in the very 1st sentence of your post) all it serves to do is get the British publics backs up.

[prakhonchai nick]

If ALL expats were treated the same (i.e. all pensions were frozen) there would not be so much to complain about. But why should some receive increases (?Phillipines?) and others -predominantly Commonwealth countries -not.

Penkoprod would be an asset to HM British government. Perhaps he is on their books and is paid to infiltrate this forum and brainwash us all!

OK, let me try it THIS way

Can you not see that, by what you say, and the thinking behind it, you are contributing to the REASON why expat pensioners will always face impossible odds in trying to get anywhere?? And never get that "sense of fairness" shown to them that some on here seem to crave, and feel they're being treated unfairly. Like i and others keep pointing out, life itself throws up more and more important, and worse instances of unfairness than whats happening to people who knew the rules before they made their move, but chose to ignore them.

By the very nature of what you say, and the thought behind it (if i cant have it, then no one should is whats screaming out in the very 1st sentence of your post) all it serves to do is get the British publics backs up.

You miss the point completely.

The governments of all shades do and have done exactly what they want. They should treat EVERYONE equally. Either pay increases to ALL expats, or freeze the pensions of ALL non-residents. Giving those in the EC (including former communist countries), plus other selected countries but freezing others is totally unfair - reciprocal agreements or not. But you seem to think it is perfectly acceptable, so lets just allow the matter to rest because it ain't going to change.

<snip>

Edited July 10, 2010 by soundman
Removed inflamatory content.

[MB1]

especially with their derogatory comments pointed to wards the old who might be following the thread. Obviously youngsters having fun, so l would suggest let it rest as the same garbage will come to the fore from them.

Cheers Transam, so am I a youngster having fun ?, if so then at nearly 50 I find being classed as a youngster quite amusing.

One thing at my age is that I still have plenty of time left to plan and save if I need to, I've got a minumum of 15 years before I reach State pensionable age and if I want to retire abroad I certainly wont be relying on a state pension to be able to fund my life abroad, increases or not.

I actually plan to retire early but as things are in the UK at the moment I may have to work a little longer than I have planned, so I'll just continue with 4 to 5 trips abroad a year for the time being.

Anyone who thinks that a state pension is enough money to fund a lifstyle abroad and have no other source of income is IMHO seriously deluded.

£100 pounds per week = less than 5000baht at todays exchange rates, anyone who thinks that could give them a life abroad anywhere is deluded.

Apologies MB1, I have now found your question (I had previously responded to somebody else's question about "fair".

Thank you, accepted.

Edited July 10, 2010 by MB1

[cardholder]

Cheers Transam, so am I a youngster having fun ?, if so then at nearly 50 I find being classed as a youngster quite amusing.

One thing at my age is that I still have plenty of time left to plan and save if I need to, I've got a minumum of 15 years before I reach State pensionable age and if I want to retire abroad I certainly wont be relying on a state pension to be able to fund my life abroad, increases or not.

I actually plan to retire early but as things are in the UK at the moment I may have to work a little longer than I have planned, so I'll just continue with 4 to 5 trips abroad a year for the time being.

Anyone who thinks that a state pension is enough money to fund a lifstyle abroad and have no other source of income is IMHO seriously deluded.

£100 pounds per week = less than 5000baht at todays exchange rates, anyone who thinks that could give them a life abroad anywhere is deluded.

This is similar to my lifestyle although I will build to 8 months in Thailand next year. I agree entirely about relying solely on a State Pension - but, it does account.for 30% of the required 65,000 Baht for visa extension.

I view the State pension as 'icing on the cake' but it is frustrating that this 'topping' is already going to be one year later being paid - I suspect it may push out further over the next 12 years !

[Penkoprod]

You miss the point completely.

The governments of all shades do and have done exactly what they want. They should treat EVERYONE equally. Either pay increases to ALL expats, or freeze the pensions of ALL non-residents. Giving those in the EC (including former communist countries), plus other selected countries but freezing others is totally unfair - reciprocal agreements or not. But you seem to think it is perfectly acceptable, so lets just allow the matter to rest because it ain't going to change.

<snip>

No, you couldnt be more wrong about me missing the point, but rather one of YOU missing it. And, not only that, but, as (i think) thaibeachlovers put it, earlier on in this thread his impression of us is that the vast majority of Brits care only about themselves. And you know what? He was spot on the money!!!

Once that red mist, alternating with the greeen one of envy, descends they lose all rational thought, and resort to name calling, insults and hectoring of anyone who disagrees with them.

All these people want is all the advantages of being an expat, and all the percieved advantages of those pensioners back in the UK. They want all the rights of UK pensioners, but dont want anything to do with the responsibilities that automatically adhere to those rights. And that, my pedigree chum is a fact and you know it....think about it if you dont. You may not like hearing it, but it might just get you and a few more besides to rid yourself of this obsession of (un)fairness. If you want examples of unfairness toward UK pensioners i can give you them in spades...and you wont like hearing them, if you have an ounce of compassion. And they DON'T concern expat pensioners, either

Think about why these people that you are so envious of in other countries get the increases and those that retire to Thailand dont. You might find out something. And it might, in part, have something to do with a 20% witholding tax paid by expats in EEC countries. And i am sure there is more to these "recipricol agreements" with other countries than either you or i know, I have admitted i know buggger all about them and the way/reason they work. Find out and it will provide you with knowledge about it, instead of pissing in the dark..a suggestion only

Why dont you find out how much 20% of your savings account interest you might hold in Thailand is and send it to:

Howard Millar

C/O Pattaya Immigration Bureau

Soi 5 Moo 12

Jomtien Beach Road

Nongprue, Banglamung

Chonburi 20150

Then if you REALLY wanted to score brownie points in your campaign, why not add up all your spends from April 2009 - April 2010, work out how much 17.5% of the total (food bought to be cooked at home, but NOT eating out, and childrens clothing are exempt) and send a cheque for the amount to the same address?. But dont forget that, from 4 January that rate goes up to 20%...so make the necessary upward adustment from then.

Then you would have some credence to your agrument. In fact, it would be 100% correct to say "this is unfair"

If you dont want to do the above ( and lets face it, who would?) then another suggestion of mine would be .....keep your head down, your powred dry, your mouth shut and stay under the radar.

It aint rocket science and it aint about fairness and unfairness. My old boss used to say "you can feed a hungry man, but you can NEVER feed a greedy one"

Penkoprod

[thaibeachlovers]

especially with their derogatory comments pointed to wards the old who might be following the thread. Obviously youngsters having fun, so l would suggest let it rest as the same garbage will come to the fore from them.

Cheers Transam, so am I a youngster having fun ?, if so then at nearly 50 I find being classed as a youngster quite amusing.

One thing at my age is that I still have plenty of time left to plan and save if I need to, I've got a minumum of 15 years before I reach State pensionable age and if I want to retire abroad I certainly wont be relying on a state pension to be able to fund my life abroad, increases or not.

I actually plan to retire early but as things are in the UK at the moment I may have to work a little longer than I have planned, so I'll just continue with 4 to 5 trips abroad a year for the time being.

Anyone who thinks that a state pension is enough money to fund a lifstyle abroad and have no other source of income is IMHO seriously deluded.

£100 pounds per week = less than 5000baht at todays exchange rates, anyone who thinks that could give them a life abroad anywhere is deluded.

Apologies MB1, I have now found your question (I had previously responded to somebody else's question about "fair".

Thank you, accepted.

Hmmmm, didn't realise I was deluded, but my budget is 300 quid a month. 400 would be luxurious!

[Lite Beer]

Inflammatory posts and posts discussing moderation deleted.

[byebyeblighty]

I think you are better off praying for the continuation of the staus quo because I think the tories are going to tear the pension system down.

[chiang mai]

I think you are better off praying for the continuation of the staus quo because I think the tories are going to tear the pension system down.

And tearing down is exactly what it needs, with parts of it being replaced by a reliable mechanism that allows people to save safetly for their retirement years, not a vehicle that allows finance houses to grow and prosper at the expense of the hapless consumer, 5% commission here,2% there, what a nonesence.

As for the State retirement plan: I really wonder if it has any place in a the society of 2010 onwards. On the one hand it's a mechanism that citizens are forced to join, thankfully for many, because, well, far too many many are hapless and the state knows only too well that if they're not forced into a mandatory state scheme then they will likely do nothing at all and that will be a major problem in later years with destitute pensioners littering the streets. No, privatise the whole business, regulate it tighter than a drum and get the state out of the financial services business, I say.

[thaibeachlovers]

I think you are better off praying for the continuation of the staus quo because I think the tories are going to tear the pension system down.

And tearing down is exactly what it needs, with parts of it being replaced by a reliable mechanism that allows people to save safetly for their retirement years, not a vehicle that allows finance houses to grow and prosper at the expense of the hapless consumer, 5% commission here,2% there, what a nonesence.

As for the State retirement plan: I really wonder if it has any place in a the society of 2010 onwards. On the one hand it's a mechanism that citizens are forced to join, thankfully for many, because, well, far too many many are hapless and the state knows only too well that if they're not forced into a mandatory state scheme then they will likely do nothing at all and that will be a major problem in later years with destitute pensioners littering the streets. No, privatise the whole business, regulate it tighter than a drum and get the state out of the financial services business, I say.

Exactly right. One of the consequences of the BP disaster is that they may not be able to pay dividends on which UK pensions depend. That's no way to run a pension service, gambling on the stock market!

However, regarding the state pension- what alternative is there to the state pension for the ?millions who earn NOTHING in their lifetimes. 3 generations on the dole in the north! Either they stay on the dole or get the pension- it's all the same. Perhaps there is a "Logan's Run" solution, but that's another story!

[MB1]

especially with their derogatory comments pointed to wards the old who might be following the thread. Obviously youngsters having fun, so l would suggest let it rest as the same garbage will come to the fore from them.

Cheers Transam, so am I a youngster having fun ?, if so then at nearly 50 I find being classed as a youngster quite amusing.

One thing at my age is that I still have plenty of time left to plan and save if I need to, I've got a minumum of 15 years before I reach State pensionable age and if I want to retire abroad I certainly wont be relying on a state pension to be able to fund my life abroad, increases or not.

I actually plan to retire early but as things are in the UK at the moment I may have to work a little longer than I have planned, so I'll just continue with 4 to 5 trips abroad a year for the time being.

Anyone who thinks that a state pension is enough money to fund a lifstyle abroad and have no other source of income is IMHO seriously deluded.

£100 pounds per week = less than 5000baht at todays exchange rates, anyone who thinks that could give them a life abroad anywhere is deluded.

Apologies MB1, I have now found your question (I had previously responded to somebody else's question about "fair".

Thank you, accepted.

Hmmmm, didn't realise I was deluded, but my budget is 300 quid a month. 400 would be luxurious!

So you say your monthly budget is £300 per month, a 30 day month = £10 per day at todays exchange rate that = 480 baht, take into account rent if your living in a rented property, food, clothing, toiletries, medical insurance, transport, electricity,air con if used, internet, visa run costs, entertainment costs, telephone, and the list could go on if a wife/girlfreind and kids are brought into it.

Note I did say in my previous post:

"Anyone who thinks that a state pension is enough money to fund a lifstyle abroad and have no other source of income is IMHO seriously deluded."

No other source of income means that the only money available to spend is the State Pension.

Living on £10 per day must be a wonderful life for you.

Enjoy.

[MAJIC]

I think you are better off praying for the continuation of the staus quo because I think the tories are going to tear the pension system down.

And tearing down is exactly what it needs, with parts of it being replaced by a reliable mechanism that allows people to save safetly for their retirement years, not a vehicle that allows finance houses to grow and prosper at the expense of the hapless consumer, 5% commission here,2% there, what a nonesence.

As for the State retirement plan: I really wonder if it has any place in a the society of 2010 onwards. On the one hand it's a mechanism that citizens are forced to join, thankfully for many, because, well, far too many many are hapless and the state knows only too well that if they're not forced into a mandatory state scheme then they will likely do nothing at all and that will be a major problem in later years with destitute pensioners littering the streets. No, privatise the whole business, regulate it tighter than a drum and get the state out of the financial services business, I say.

Partly agree with what you say.

However a changeover to private pension scemes will take many many years.

For those around 40-45 years old and upwards,its already too late to go into a Private Scheme,as there is not enough growth years left to accumulate a decent Pension,unless you pump so much cash in now,it negates having a decent life style now.

Also the risk to your investment would be severe in times of financial crisis such as the recent Credit Crunch.

The fault after WW2 layed with the Government of the day,who in their wisdom introduced the NI linked Pension Scheme for all.

Unfortunately the great brains of the day never considerd there would be a need for Investing for future generations National State Pensions,funded by NI contributions.

It was a very simple scheme,money was to be paid in by those working to those that had retired,so the Pot was based on: in/out payments to finance their pensions.

According to a BBC PANORAMA Program some 10 years ago, at any given point in time there is only 8 weeks money in the State Pension Pot to pay out Pensioners with,originally a great idea in theory for the welfare of the people,but ill conceived in practice.

Yet another reason they should not be penalised now for choosing to live abroad,and being discriminated against,with no annual increases.

If a Private Pension Provider was to operate a similar Pension Scheme today,they would probably get closed down for Fraud.

Edited July 12, 2010 by MAJIC

[MAJIC]

It is an iniquity, but I doubt it is going to change.

By living overseas we save the government money on the NHS.

However if this rule has to stand, it should be applied to ALL pensioners,

including teachers and civil servants, who live overseas.......

As far as I am aware this rule does apply to all pensioners in Thailand, but not to all pensions.

I know of people living here in Thailand who are in receipt of three pensions, a gov't pension and company pension where the rules dont apply,

the state OAP is the only pension affected.

As the Op states in his opening, the OAP is fixed, just one more thing to take into consideration before coming here.

Another problem many face but choose to ignore is health care costs, if you can get any cover over age of 70 it may cost more than your pension provides.

Knew an old guy in BKK a few years ago, he was getting by on 15,000 baht per month.

I have no idea what the pension for a married man is, but suspect in todays climate it doesnt even pay enough to allow you to get a married mans extension

based on 40,000 baht per month income.

Not just Thailand, but anyone who is relying on only the govt pension is in for a rough ride no matter where they live, in fact for many the UK would be their best bet,

at least health care is free.

Correct the pensions paid to govermnet workers are in effcet occupational pensions and not the state old age pension different rules

Perhaps Penrod has a similar Civil Service Pension,or an Occupational Pension? which would explain a lot of his poor, unsypathetic attitude,towards those Expats who no doubt have earned their place in the Sun,only to have some petty little Beurocratic number cruncher,try and make his retirement as austere as possible.

Unfortunately for the Government Workers/Civil Servants, the Tories are now in power,and have already blocked pay rises for Civil Servants for the next 3 years and are also drastically cutting back on their huge gravy train Pensions and Payoffs,and also no more basing maximum Pensions on final year,of highest earnings,in any one year.

As the saying goes"what goes around comes around"and they have a lot more to lose than the Expats Pensioners annual increases,considering it was the Civil Servants who had a hand in denying the Expat increases,and considering the same Expats who contributed to their whopping great Pensions,it couldnt happen to a nicer group of people!.............. Poetic Justice!

[Nignoy]

how can I say this without being inflammatory, we whinge and protest but thai and aussie expats just aint getting what they are not entitled to :jap:

[Penkoprod]

Perhaps Penrod has a similar Civil Service Pension,or an Occupational Pension? which would explain a lot of his poor, unsypathetic attitude,towards those Expats who no doubt have earned their place in the Sun,only to have some petty little Beurocratic number cruncher,try and make his retirement as austere as possible.

Unfortunately for the Government Workers/Civil Servants, the Tories are now in power,and have already blocked pay rises for Civil Servants for the next 3 years and are also drastically cutting back on their huge gravy train Pensions and Payoffs,and also no more basing maximum Pensions on final year,of highest earnings,in any one year.

As the saying goes"what goes around comes around"and they have a lot more to lose than the Expats Pensioners annual increases,considering it was the Civil Servants who had a hand in denying the Expat increases,and considering the same Expats who contributed to their whopping great Pensions,it couldnt happen to a nicer group of people!.............. Poetic Justice!

Some people just dont get it, do they?

Please go and look at your (badly) pasted quote of mine HERE which was my very 1st post on this thread about this subject........and read it again.

Once you have, can you please explain to both me and, via your reply, the other members of the board that might read this, EXACTLY how wishing someone good luck, telling them they are going to need it, some of the reasons why they are going to need it (which, by the way have been based on extensive research on the subject, by me, getting info from here, and other boards of a similar nature to this, "pounding the streets" and asking people that know about the subject, and by listening to what other people think and say) and then sharing those facts for the benefit of the members of the board can, in any way, be classed as a "poor, unsypathetic attitude"?????

Like i have said to others, i am willing to learn........show me

Or is your post an attempt to re-ignite the flaming and by doing so, you hope the thread gets closed, and its info sinking with it?

Well, i aint biting, old son, but just to say....show me where i showed a poor, unsympathetic attitude to the expat pensioners in what i said (other to defend myself against all the bile and venom thrown in my direction by some posters, who, IMO cant take a healthy dose of reality.......whether they be expat pensioners or not. The criteria being me standing my corner)

Like i say..........please show me.

"Put up, or shut up" is the phrase used, i believe

Penkoprod

[thaibeachlovers]

Cheers Transam, so am I a youngster having fun ?, if so then at nearly 50 I find being classed as a youngster quite amusing.

One thing at my age is that I still have plenty of time left to plan and save if I need to, I've got a minumum of 15 years before I reach State pensionable age and if I want to retire abroad I certainly wont be relying on a state pension to be able to fund my life abroad, increases or not.

I actually plan to retire early but as things are in the UK at the moment I may have to work a little longer than I have planned, so I'll just continue with 4 to 5 trips abroad a year for the time being.

Anyone who thinks that a state pension is enough money to fund a lifstyle abroad and have no other source of income is IMHO seriously deluded.

£100 pounds per week = less than 5000baht at todays exchange rates, anyone who thinks that could give them a life abroad anywhere is deluded.

Apologies MB1, I have now found your question (I had previously responded to somebody else's question about "fair".

Thank you, accepted.

Hmmmm, didn't realise I was deluded, but my budget is 300 quid a month. 400 would be luxurious!

So you say your monthly budget is £300 per month, a 30 day month = £10 per day at todays exchange rate that = 480 baht, take into account rent if your living in a rented property, food, clothing, toiletries, medical insurance, transport, electricity,air con if used, internet, visa run costs, entertainment costs, telephone, and the list could go on if a wife/girlfreind and kids are brought into it.

Note I did say in my previous post:

"Anyone who thinks that a state pension is enough money to fund a lifstyle abroad and have no other source of income is IMHO seriously deluded."

No other source of income means that the only money available to spend is the State Pension.

Living on £10 per day must be a wonderful life for you.

Enjoy.

Apologies, my budget is actually 395 quid a month, includes rent, electric, water, cable tv, GF expenses, and food at 100 bht a day. I also have a lump sum to cover such as entertainment ( occasional movie on cheap Wednesdays, second hand books, cheap DVDs etc ), internet, dentist, visa and medical etc, but as they are not a "routine" expense, don't come under the "budget".

It does help that I don't have to "pay" my GF to stay with me, play golf, visit high priced tourist attractions, frequent GoGo bars, barbeers, massage parlours, smoke or drink alcohol.

Actually, I'd rather live here on 10 quid a day with my GF, even if we don't have much, than live on a lot more back in the "home" country by myself. My life enjoyment index went up by about a million % the day I retired and moved to LOS!

And YES, it is a wonderful life!

I've had to delete some quotes to be able to post this.

[changnaam]

Am I missing something or are there really people who have retired abroad solely on a UK state pension?

I always thought the dream of retirement abroad was something which was planned years in advance and saved for. There are people living here on 300 per month with no local healthcare?

Yes I am a "youngster" commenting and maybe what the world has gone through in econimic terms over the past 10 years will have taught many lessons but I really cannot believe that people could aspire to living abroard on a state pension. The mind boggles.

I do feel for these people who may not have been given advice or guidance, left their partner and house in the UK for a "life of bliss" in Thailand but I think many should face the reality that there is no inflation link to pensioners in Thailand and start to formulate a "plan B", the situation will not get better. What are the options because your £300 per month will be worth around £192 in 15 years even if inflation is 3% pa, then what if the baht drops to 40, you will have Thb7,700 per month for everything........ That is frightening.

Not having a dig but it seems there has been no planning or thought to consequences with the only argument "I paid my NI for 30 years so it is not fair". maybe you should have thought about retiring in Thailand 30 years before you did and maybe then you would not be in this mess.

Sorry, harsh but true

[MB1]

@ thaibeachlovers..

Apologies, my budget is actually 395 quid a month, includes rent, electric, water, cable tv, GF expenses, and food at 100 bht a day. I also have a lump sum to cover such as entertainment ( occasional movie on cheap Wednesdays, second hand books, cheap DVDs etc ), internet, dentist, visa and medical etc, but as they are not a "routine" expense, don't come under the "budget".

It does help that I don't have to "pay" my GF to stay with me, play golf, visit high priced tourist attractions, frequent GoGo bars, barbeers, massage parlours, smoke or drink alcohol.

Actually, I'd rather live here on 10 quid a day with my GF, even if we don't have much, than live on a lot more back in the "home" country by myself. My life enjoyment index went up by about a million % the day I retired and moved to LOS!

And YES, it is a wonderful life!

I've had to delete some quotes to be able to post this.

Thanks for reply and honesty, you now say your budget in £395 per month, which basically means that you've spent all of your UK state pension at todays rates if in receipt of the basic state pension,some people don't get the todays pension rates because they left the UK some time ago so their pensions were frozen from the date they left and receive less.

I hope the 100 baht per day for food that you budget for is not for two people, you need your 5 a day, I can't imagine having a budget of 100 baht per day for one, never mind two.

You then go on to say that you have a lump some to cover entertainment, medical, dentist, visa etc, so in reality your spending a more than the state pension would pay you, even though you may not include it in your budget you need to get the money from somewhere, and don't forget to add travel costs back home if you do go home occasionally.

That is why I said earlier that IMHO no one can afford to fund a lifestyle abroad if they only have the state pension to rely on and no other source of income.

By the way I can't see many Thai women living with a man if he only had £10 per day to look after them both and maybe children involved.

Edited July 13, 2010 by MB1

[MAJIC]

Perhaps Penrod has a similar Civil Service Pension,or an Occupational Pension? which would explain a lot of his poor, unsypathetic attitude,towards those Expats who no doubt have earned their place in the Sun,only to have some petty little Beurocratic number cruncher,try and make his retirement as austere as possible.

Unfortunately for the Government Workers/Civil Servants, the Tories are now in power,and have already blocked pay rises for Civil Servants for the next 3 years and are also drastically cutting back on their huge gravy train Pensions and Payoffs,and also no more basing maximum Pensions on final year,of highest earnings,in any one year.

As the saying goes"what goes around comes around"and they have a lot more to lose than the Expats Pensioners annual increases,considering it was the Civil Servants who had a hand in denying the Expat increases,and considering the same Expats who contributed to their whopping great Pensions,it couldnt happen to a nicer group of people!.............. Poetic Justice!

Some people just dont get it, do they?

Please go and look at your (badly) pasted quote of mine HERE which was my very 1st post on this thread about this subject........and read it again.

Once you have, can you please explain to both me and, via your reply, the other members of the board that might read this, EXACTLY how wishing someone good luck, telling them they are going to need it, some of the reasons why they are going to need it (which, by the way have been based on extensive research on the subject, by me, getting info from here, and other boards of a similar nature to this, "pounding the streets" and asking people that know about the subject, and by listening to what other people think and say) and then sharing those facts for the benefit of the members of the board can, in any way, be classed as a "poor, unsypathetic attitude"?????

Like i have said to others, i am willing to learn........show me

Or is your post an attempt to re-ignite the flaming and by doing so, you hope the thread gets closed, and its info sinking with it?

Well, i aint biting, old son, but,to say....show me where i showed a poor, unsympathetic attitude to the expat pensioners in what i said (other to defend myself against all the bile and venom thrown in my direction by some posters, who, IMO cant take a healthy dose of reality.......whether they be expat pensioners or not. The criteria being me standing my corner)

Like i say..........please show me.

"Put up, or shut up" is the phrase used.

Penkoprod

Penkoprod

I have said all I needed to say,and I dont intend to get into drawn out nit picking arguments with you.

Im sure the members on here are more than capable of making up their own minds,as to IMHO the Outrageously,Discriminating,Frozen Pensions,situation,......or not.

I dont think that anything I or any other members say in their Posts will change your mind,so its a futile exercise.

Some of us have a fighting spirit,in the face of adversity and injustice,while many others accept a poor ruling,meekly and sheeplike,or even couldn't care less.

Thankfully our ancesters were made of stronger stuff,and had the spirit to fight to give us a better life and standard of living,and we owe it to them to continue the struggle,and many rulings have been rescinded in the past because of those who refused to accept unfair laws.

Also,you have never received any written Bile or Venom from me,neither did I ever have the intention to"re-ignite the flaming and by doing so"

[thaibeachlovers]

@ thaibeachlovers..

Apologies, my budget is actually 395 quid a month, includes rent, electric, water, cable tv, GF expenses, and food at 100 bht a day. I also have a lump sum to cover such as entertainment ( occasional movie on cheap Wednesdays, second hand books, cheap DVDs etc ), internet, dentist, visa and medical etc, but as they are not a "routine" expense, don't come under the "budget".

It does help that I don't have to "pay" my GF to stay with me, play golf, visit high priced tourist attractions, frequent GoGo bars, barbeers, massage parlours, smoke or drink alcohol.

Actually, I'd rather live here on 10 quid a day with my GF, even if we don't have much, than live on a lot more back in the "home" country by myself. My life enjoyment index went up by about a million % the day I retired and moved to LOS!

And YES, it is a wonderful life!

I've had to delete some quotes to be able to post this.

Thanks for reply and honesty, you now say your budget in £395 per month, which basically means that you've spent all of your UK state pension at todays rates if in receipt of the basic state pension,some people don't get the todays pension rates because they left the UK some time ago so their pensions were frozen from the date they left and receive less.

I hope the 100 baht per day for food that you budget for is not for two people, you need your 5 a day, I can't imagine having a budget of 100 baht per day for one, never mind two.

You then go on to say that you have a lump some to cover entertainment, medical, dentist, visa etc, so in reality your spending a more than the state pension would pay you, even though you may not include it in your budget you need to get the money from somewhere, and don't forget to add travel costs back home if you do go home occasionally.

That is why I said earlier that IMHO no one can afford to fund a lifestyle abroad if they only have the state pension to rely on and no other source of income.

By the way I can't see many Thai women living with a man if he only had £10 per day to look after them both and maybe children involved.

Yes, agreed that I need a back up fund ( from my savings ), and would not be able to stay otherwise. However, the BUDGET for routine expenses is indeed 395. The fund pays for one offs, and when that's gone, I will indeed be heading for "home" so I can work to build up another back up fund, and return here.

As for the GF, I must be one of the lucky ones, though she does have a job and pays for some of her food herself. I cover all living expenses though, as she still needs to send money to her family etc, and is paying off her own motorcycle, buys her own clothes etc. No children, as that would indeed make a difference.

100 bht a day for food is perfectly achievable, provided you shop at the market, and do your own cooking. Doesn't cover anything but the basics, of course, no treats, and only water to drink. Helps that I only eat cereal and bananas for breakfast, and have one cooked meal a day, in the evening when the GF gets back from work. In the heat, I find I only want 2 meals a day, and don't eat much anyway.

PS I don't know any pensioners in the UK, but would it be possible to live in the UK on only the state pension? I'd doubt that, even with the increases. Surely some supplementary assistance would be required? I know they get free public transport, and winter fuel allowance.

[yabaaaa]

@ thaibeachlovers..

Apologies, my budget is actually 395 quid a month, includes rent, electric, water, cable tv, GF expenses, and food at 100 bht a day. I also have a lump sum to cover such as entertainment ( occasional movie on cheap Wednesdays, second hand books, cheap DVDs etc ), internet, dentist, visa and medical etc, but as they are not a "routine" expense, don't come under the "budget".

It does help that I don't have to "pay" my GF to stay with me, play golf, visit high priced tourist attractions, frequent GoGo bars, barbeers, massage parlours, smoke or drink alcohol.

Actually, I'd rather live here on 10 quid a day with my GF, even if we don't have much, than live on a lot more back in the "home" country by myself. My life enjoyment index went up by about a million % the day I retired and moved to LOS!

And YES, it is a wonderful life!

I've had to delete some quotes to be able to post this.

Thanks for reply and honesty, you now say your budget in £395 per month, which basically means that you've spent all of your UK state pension at todays rates if in receipt of the basic state pension,some people don't get the todays pension rates because they left the UK some time ago so their pensions were frozen from the date they left and receive less.

I hope the 100 baht per day for food that you budget for is not for two people, you need your 5 a day, I can't imagine having a budget of 100 baht per day for one, never mind two.

You then go on to say that you have a lump some to cover entertainment, medical, dentist, visa etc, so in reality your spending a more than the state pension would pay you, even though you may not include it in your budget you need to get the money from somewhere, and don't forget to add travel costs back home if you do go home occasionally.

That is why I said earlier that IMHO no one can afford to fund a lifestyle abroad if they only have the state pension to rely on and no other source of income.

By the way I can't see many Thai women living with a man if he only had £10 per day to look after them both and maybe children involved.

Yes, agreed that I need a back up fund ( from my savings ), and would not be able to stay otherwise. However, the BUDGET for routine expenses is indeed 395. The fund pays for one offs, and when that's gone, I will indeed be heading for "home" so I can work to build up another back up fund, and return here.

As for the GF, I must be one of the lucky ones, though she does have a job and pays for some of her food herself. I cover all living expenses though, as she still needs to send money to her family etc, and is paying off her own motorcycle, buys her own clothes etc. No children, as that would indeed make a difference.

100 bht a day for food is perfectly achievable, provided you shop at the market, and do your own cooking. Doesn't cover anything but the basics, of course, no treats, and only water to drink. Helps that I only eat cereal and bananas for breakfast, and have one cooked meal a day, in the evening when the GF gets back from work. In the heat, I find I only want 2 meals a day, and don't eat much anyway.

PS I don't know any pensioners in the UK, but would it be possible to live in the UK on only the state pension? I'd doubt that, even with the increases. Surely some supplementary assistance would be required? I know they get free public transport, and winter fuel allowance.

You can get all sorts of top up benefits in the UK if you havent got enough.

[MAJIC]

Perhaps Penrod has a similar Civil Service Pension,or an Occupational Pension? which would explain a lot of his poor, unsypathetic attitude,towards those Expats who no doubt have earned their place in the Sun,only to have some petty little Beurocratic number cruncher,try and make his retirement as austere as possible.

Unfortunately for the Government Workers/Civil Servants, the Tories are now in power,and have already blocked pay rises for Civil Servants for the next 3 years and are also drastically cutting back on their huge gravy train Pensions and Payoffs,and also no more basing maximum Pensions on final year,of highest earnings,in any one year.

As the saying goes"what goes around comes around"and they have a lot more to lose than the Expats Pensioners annual increases,considering it was the Civil Servants who had a hand in denying the Expat increases,and considering the same Expats who contributed to their whopping great Pensions,it couldnt happen to a nicer group of people!.............. Poetic Justice!

Some people just dont get it, do they?

Please go and look at your (badly) pasted quote of mine HERE which was my very 1st post on this thread about this subject........and read it again.

Once you have, can you please explain to both me and, via your reply, the other members of the board that might read this, EXACTLY how wishing someone good luck, telling them they are going to need it, some of the reasons why they are going to need it (which, by the way have been based on extensive research on the subject, by me, getting info from here, and other boards of a similar nature to this, "pounding the streets" and asking people that know about the subject, and by listening to what other people think and say) and then sharing those facts for the benefit of the members of the board can, in any way, be classed as a "poor, unsypathetic attitude"?????

Like i have said to others, i am willing to learn........show me

Or is your post an attempt to re-ignite the flaming and by doing so, you hope the thread gets closed, and its info sinking with it?

Well, i aint biting, old son, but just to say....show me where i showed a poor, unsympathetic attitude to the expat pensioners in what i said (other to defend myself against all the bile and venom thrown in my direction by some posters, who, IMO cant take a healthy dose of reality.......whether they be expat pensioners or not. The criteria being me standing my corner)

Like i say..........please show me.

"Put up, or shut up" is the phrase used, i believe

Penkoprod

Appears you enjoy convuluted arguments,with little substance.

Good thing the majority of Posters on this thread are aware that just because it’s a Government Ruling doesn’t mean they should just surrender, lie down and allow themselves to get shafted.

If that were the case then we would have a Dictatorship, instead of what is: a reasonable Democracy.

I strongly believe an Injustice and Discrimination has been dealt to the UK Pensioners by the British Government and the European Courts of appeal, and I will stand up and be counted for my belief, playing Verbal Tennis with you will change nothing.

As you seem to thrive on sayings, here is a quote for you:

“Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome”

Samuel Johnson

[MAJIC]

PS I'm not your "old son"