Re-applying For Retirement Visa

[agam]

I've read back through the related threads, and think I have this straight. But if someone could confirm, I would be most grateful. I'm Canadian, 55 yrs old, and lived here since 1991 mostly with business visas (small company with Thai partner). I am a registered partner /owner of the company. Used to have no trouble getting one year multiple entry business visas but, at least in Jakarta, they stopped providing those period.

I got my very first retirement visa last September, valid until this October as per the passport stamp. I have therefore done two of the 90 day notifications, in December and March. The next one would have been next month.

I should have checked more closely for myself, but was told that if I leave the country and return under this visa, as long as the return didn't occur past my next reporting date, that the entry would be the same as reporting my address etc. and a new 90 day period would begin at that point. I didn't read the fine print on the stamp.

I came back after two weeks seeing family in Canada, via Suwannaphum last Friday. And thus I learned that I had no "visa" - which I thought the retirement permit stamp (expiring in Oct '10) was. I was admitted on a 30 day stamp, and told to sort it out at Immigration.

I gather that I can change the 30 day stamp to the proper category (non-imm O?) with a fee. And then re-apply for the retirement all over again. Money in account, check. Paperwork from bank, check. Do I need to do the health certificate and letter from Canadian embassy again too?

I see references here to "non-imm extensions for purpose of retirement". Is this just a long way of saying "retirement visa"? I've been told the existing visa must have at least 15 days remaining, but one thread seemed to indicate 21 days for a visa change.

Or is it the case that after changing to the right category, one can apply for extension of that, to allow sufficient time to apply for and process an actual retirement visa?

Hope I've been clear. Appreciate any clarifications.

[Jingthing]

With a 30 day stamp, you can do this --

With AT LEAST 21 days left on the 30 day stay you can apply for a change of visa status (first step) to non-immigrant in Thailand and then (often the same day) apply for an annual extension based on retirement. If you are qualifying based on bank account only, the money over 800K baht must be in the Thai account at least two months. This method, no need for medical cert. or police clearance.

If this is already too late for this, you can reenter on a 30 day stamp, or a tourist visa from Malaysia, etc., or better yet get a single entry O visa in Malaysia or Laos. With the 30 day stamp or TR visa you will still need the change of visa status part, with a single entry O, you won't.

BTW, the typical terminology we use here --

Retirement visa - O-A visa obtained in your home country

Non-immigrant visa - O visa

Extension of stay based on retirement - annual extensions obtained in Thailand of either an O-A or an O

[Lite Beer]

If you have at least 21 days on your stay you can get it changed to a Non Imm O Visa as part of the retirement process. 2,000 Baht.

With this you can then apply for the 12 month extension based on Retirement. 1,900 Baht.

They may do both steps at the same time or you might have to wait 2 months.

You do not say which is your local Immigration Office but they might not do this and send you to Bangkok to do it.

Health Certificate not needed.

Letter from Embassy needed if using income method.

Letter from bank needed if using savings method.

Quite often it is simpler to get a Single Entry Non Imm O Visa from a neighbouring Thai Consulate and apply for the extension with that.

[beechguy]

Also, once you get your extension of stay, you might consider getting a re-entry permit so it doesn't happen again.

[hotpotato]

Am I correct to think that a retirement visa with a multi-entry feature does have the 90 day leave the country ability rather than doing 90 day reporting? I have friends that have multi-entry retirement visas who have assured me that is correct, an exit/entry permit is not needed and any trip out and back in the country starts a new 90 day period.

[lopburi3]

A long stay (non immigrant OA) multi entry visa provides one year of entry and each entry gets a one year permitted to stay stamp from entry date.

An extension of stay from Immigration for retirement is one year permitted to stay but no travel allowed without a re-entry permit - that keeps the current permitted to stay alive for a new entry.

A multi entry non immigrant O visa (not a retirement visa) allows one year of unlimited entries of 90 days each.

[agam]

With a 30 day stamp, you can do this --

With AT LEAST 21 days left on the 30 day stay you can apply for a change of visa status (first step) to non-immigrant in Thailand and then (often the same day) apply for an annual extension based on retirement. If you are qualifying based on bank account only, the money over 800K baht must be in the Thai account at least two months. This method, no need for medical cert. or police clearance.

If this is already too late for this, you can reenter on a 30 day stamp, or a tourist visa from Malaysia, etc., or better yet get a single entry O visa in Malaysia or Laos. With the 30 day stamp or TR visa you will still need the change of visa status part, with a single entry O, you won't.

BTW, the typical terminology we use here --

Retirement visa - O-A visa obtained in your home country

Non-immigrant visa - O visa

Extension of stay based on retirement - annual extensions obtained in Thailand of either an O-A or an O

Thank you. I have til June 19 on the stamp, meaning 21 days remaining falls over this weekend, meaning I have tomorrow and Thursday to do this since Friday is a holiday.

The account is there with sufficient funds since Sept '09. So I won't need the medical cert. or embassy letter? I think that means I can accomplish this tomorrow. Many thanks for clarifying this!

[agam]

If you have at least 21 days on your stay you can get it changed to a Non Imm O Visa as part of the retirement process. 2,000 Baht.

With this you can then apply for the 12 month extension based on Retirement. 1,900 Baht.

They may do both steps at the same time or you might have to wait 2 months.

You do not say which is your local Immigration Office but they might not do this and send you to Bangkok to do it.

Health Certificate not needed.

Letter from Embassy needed if using income method.

Letter from bank needed if using savings method.

Quite often it is simpler to get a Single Entry Non Imm O Visa from a neighbouring Thai Consulate and apply for the extension with that.

Sorry, I am in Bangkok. I'll be going to the main Immigration centre in Chaeng Wattana. Hopefully I can accomplish both steps at once.

[agam]

Also, once you get your extension of stay, you might consider getting a re-entry permit so it doesn't happen again.

Yes, thank you. I will not make this mistake again.

[agam]

Am I correct to think that a retirement visa with a multi-entry feature does have the 90 day leave the country ability rather than doing 90 day reporting? I have friends that have multi-entry retirement visas who have assured me that is correct, an exit/entry permit is not needed and any trip out and back in the country starts a new 90 day period.

See now, this is how I thought it would work. But maybe it's a special class of retirement visa. I'll pay closer attention to the fine print from now on.

[Jingthing]

No need for embassy letter if your funds are over 800K for over two months. Medical cert. not need for retirement extensions in Thailand (except for some oddball provincial offices). You need a BANK LETTER from your bank, sometimes same day as your meeting for the extension part (depends on office how fresh it needs to be). Just ask for immigration letter, they'll know what you need. You also need copies of your bank book going back some time, a year back to be safe (or when account opened if less than a year). Copies of passport relevant pages, proof of local residence sometimes (utility bill for example), etc, as well, plus cash money for the fees.

Keep in mind you are trying to do both step during the same visit, change of status and extension. That's two separate applications. Oh, about the bank letter, sometimes you MUST go to your home branch of your bank to get the letter. The only way to find out is to try another branch and ask.

[agam]

A long stay (non immigrant OA) multi entry visa provides one year of entry and each entry gets a one year permitted to stay stamp from entry date.

An extension of stay from Immigration for retirement is one year permitted to stay but no travel allowed without a re-entry permit - that keeps the current permitted to stay alive for a new entry.

A multi entry non immigrant O visa (not a retirement visa) allows one year of unlimited entries of 90 days each.

That last category is similar to what I had been living with for years, non-immigrant B. One year, unlimited entries of 90 days. I found Jakarta was the smoothest experience (+ having friends there), until last year when they said it wasn't available any more. Single or double entry only.

[powderpuff]

Back in the good old days when Thailand was farang friendly they had a desk at Suvarnabum where they would issue an exit permit.

But today that is but a fond memory.

[agam]

No need for embassy letter if your funds are over 800K for over two months. Medical cert. not need for retirement extensions in Thailand (except for some oddball provincial offices). You need a BANK LETTER from your bank, sometimes same day as your meeting for the extension part (depends on office how fresh it needs to be). Just ask for immigration letter, they'll know what you need. You also need copies of your bank book going back some time, a year back to be safe (or when account opened if less than a year). Copies of passport relevant pages, proof of local residence sometimes (utility bill for example), etc, as well, plus cash money for the fees.

Keep in mind you are trying to do both step during the same visit, change of status and extension. That's two separate applications. Oh, about the bank letter, sometimes you MUST go to your home branch of your bank to get the letter. The only way to find out is to try another branch and ask.

I believe I have all that lined up, except that utility bills for our home is in my Thai partner's name. He'll be with me when we go to do this, so it should be proof enough I suppose. Thanks to everyone for the clear explanations.

[Jingthing]

You should gather a complete list of EXACTLY what you need to bring to immigration before you go, the complete list. Minor things can be solved there (a missing copy) but its best to be fully prepared. That kind of thing isn't my specialty, but the info exists on this forum, or a more detailed person than me may supply right here.

[Jingthing]

No need for embassy letter if your funds are over 800K for over two months. Medical cert. not need for retirement extensions in Thailand (except for some oddball provincial offices). You need a BANK LETTER from your bank, sometimes same day as your meeting for the extension part (depends on office how fresh it needs to be). Just ask for immigration letter, they'll know what you need. You also need copies of your bank book going back some time, a year back to be safe (or when account opened if less than a year). Copies of passport relevant pages, proof of local residence sometimes (utility bill for example), etc, as well, plus cash money for the fees.

Keep in mind you are trying to do both step during the same visit, change of status and extension. That's two separate applications. Oh, about the bank letter, sometimes you MUST go to your home branch of your bank to get the letter. The only way to find out is to try another branch and ask.

I believe I have all that lined up, except that utility bills for our home is in my Thai partner's name. He'll be with me when we go to do this, so it should be proof enough I suppose. Thanks to everyone for the clear explanations.

Other options including ownership papers of a condo, lease agreement, etc. I don't think utility bills not in your name are of any interest at all to immigration. They're looking for evidence, PAPER PROOF, of your residence in Thailand. Paper without your name on it is the opposite of proof. I don't know how strict the office you are using is going to be on proof of residence though, but my advise is bring any PAPER proof you can.

[Pib]

To the OP: Good luck on this endeaver/process. I'm particularly interested in how the 30 day Visa-on-Arrival to Non-0 to Retirement Extension of Stay works out for you. For those of us say on a Retirement Extension of Stay being forced to quickly return to your home country "at the worst time" and not being able to return before your extension of stay expires can easily happen. A few months ago I asked the same question on ThaiVisa and got the same answers you have...I asked the question to have a plan is case I'm out of country when my extension expires. It would be great to get some real world feedback as to how smooth (or rough) the process goes. Sincere good luck and thanks in advance for your future updates on how it goes. Cheers.

[Jingthing]

There are already reports here on the forum already of people doing similar things as the OP will do with no problems. Some offices will do the change of visa status and some won't. Bangkok of course will. For those who need to use provincial offices that won't, they can do the change of visa status part in Bangkok (or alternatively get a single entry O just for being over 50 in Laos or Malaysia).

[tropo]

If you have at least 21 days on your stay you can get it changed to a Non Imm O Visa as part of the retirement process. 2,000 Baht.

With this you can then apply for the 12 month extension based on Retirement. 1,900 Baht.

They may do both steps at the same time or you might have to wait 2 months.

You do not say which is your local Immigration Office but they might not do this and send you to Bangkok to do it.

Health Certificate not needed.

Letter from Embassy needed if using income method.

Letter from bank needed if using savings method.

Quite often it is simpler to get a Single Entry Non Imm O Visa from a neighbouring Thai Consulate and apply for the extension with that.

If doing this at Chonburi and using the over 65,000 per month income letter or stat declaration you also need to have a bank account showing at least 5,000 baht with a letter from the bank.

[agam]

Many thanks for all the advice and pointers. I had all my documents ready and, accompanied by my business partner, went to the Immigration Centre yesterday. He said advice from experts is great, but sometimes even experts can be wrong. I remained confident.

We didn't get past step one. The official, a very helpful and sympathetic young lady, said the main thing they were looking for in changing my 30 day stamp into Non-Imm O, is proof of money transfer from outside the country. I've had the large deposit in my account since several months before last Sept., when I acquired the retirement visa. For that purpose, the existence of the funds was sufficient.

But for the changing of the visa (step one), it wasn't. I would need the proof of international transfer. The other thing which I had been a bit worried about (utility bills etc. are in my partner's name, and being told here that they wouldn't be interested in that for proof of residence) was not a problem at all. If I'd have had a SWIFT code proof that the funds were deposited from abroad, she could have changed my visa. The rest of my documentation would have been accepted for doing the second stage, extension for purpose of retirement.

So let this be a warning to others. The rules about the 800,00 baht account are distinct between the retirement permit process and the visa change process. I had expected the visa change process to be the easy part, at least that's how it sounded.

Now of course the logical thing is simply go to KL or elsewhere and get the non-immigrant O visa (type B is also fine, and for years I've had no problem getting those with our company documentation, usually in Jakarta), and return here to do the retirement step.

I may still have the option of getting this done here, if I can arrange a transfer from abroad before June 3. That was the other thing different from what I was told here the other day. You must have at least 14 days remaining on your stamp, in order to change the visa. I thought if I didn't get it done by today (21 days remaining falls on this Sunday), it would be too late. If I can work something out for a transfer next week, I can do it. If not I'll go out to get a non-imm O or B, and do the extension later.

Best regards,

Agam

[agam]

... The rules about the 800,00 baht account ...

Sorry, of course that should have another "0" on it.

[Jingthing]

What immigration office did you use? That was very good information about the enforcement policy of THAT office for people doing change of visa status applications using the bank account qualifying method. I wouldn't assume that applies to ALL offices, but it is helpful for people to be prepared for that if they can. Like you said, alternatively, people can get a single entry O visa in a neighboring country.

BTW, when people do SWIFT transfers in, I believe acceptable proof is the printed form Thai banks will give you for each transfer, if you ask them. Passbooks also show a code indicating international transfers, sometimes but not always not is enough if and when immigration is enforcing international transfer of the funds.

Another issue that your problem amplifies. Immigration CAN enforce the foreign funds transfer requirement any time they wish! In the past there was at least one wave of more general national enforcement of this for retirement extensions and they were going back looking for proof from the BEGINNING of people's stays when they did this, yes could be many years. Yes, that's right, I said extensions, not talking about change of visa status part now. Reports were they weren't satisfied with the codes in the passbooks anymore. This is why I have advised people to ALWAYS get the paper form proving the international transfers from their Thai banks every time they do SWIFT transfers, just in case enforcement tightens on this again.

As far as proof of residence, you weren't clear. Either your office ACCEPTED a utility not in your name as proof of residence with your partner's testimony or they weren't really strictly enforcing the paper proof of residency requirement. Again, enforcement and policies vary between offices and even officers in offices. I still believe my advice is valid generally, if you are trying to prove residence, bring in PAPER proof of it in the form of utility bills, lease agreements, ownership papers, etc.

Sorry for you that you need an extra trip to get the O. Cheers.

[JimGant]

The rules about the 800,00 baht account are distinct between the retirement permit process and the visa change process.

Maybe not........

Historically, the criteria for converting to an in-country Non Imm O visa was identical to that required for the subsequent retirement extension. So, I suspect the Immigration officer you dealt with would have required the SWIFT proof had you already had a Non Imm O visa, and were applying directly for the extension.

Another Immigration officer -- or one with less of a hangover -- might not be so stringent. But, if this is new policy at this Immigration office, and elsewhere, reports of such should begin to filter in.

[lopburi3]

I do not believe any seasoning of money has been a requirement for change of visa/issue of visa for retirement - but if money not seasoned both processes could not be done the same day - you would have to return after meeting the seasoning period for the extension of stay.

During the last year very few requests have been made for proof of source - but we may be back to that from some recent reports.

[pauleddy]

This is probably easily answered, but the OP made me worried...

1. I obtained my first retirement extension last July 2009 with proof of income and no problems at all.

2. The same day, I obtained multi re-entry permit.

3. I did my 90-day reporting twice (Oct 2009 and Jan 2010).

4. I was needed in the UK for family stuff in March. I flew out on 9 March 2010. I was delayed and flew back on May 22nd 2010. So, I missed my 90-day, but I think that the clock resets (?) so that 22 May is the start of my re-entry and my new 90-day period. Now, I must do the reporting on 19 Aug 2010, if the clock has reset.

5. I must reapply for retirement on 31st July 2010. This is before my 90 day reporting as above. Thus, the retirement extension and the 90-day reporting are not in sync.

AFAIK this is OK. I get my embassy letter for new extension before July 31st and apply. The 90-day reporting is a different matter. Am I right??

Thanks

P Ed

[lopburi3]

Right. You can sometimes sync them by doing early or late in the 7 day window but you do not have time to do that so will require two trips. Even when done on the same trip it is two forms and likely two queues.