Interpol to track Thaksin: Thai Foreign Ministry

[thailandbluegrass]

Seems that everyone forgot one benefit Thaksin can enjoy from this new charge of being a wanted terrorist: he can now really apply for political asylum as victim of political persecution.

In fact, with this move, the Thai Govt made it easier for Thaksin to get this status and be heard at the concerned agency under the UN!

Spot on.

[clausewitz]

Perhaps some of the thai language experts can help.

Do REconciliation and REvenge somehow have the same meaning in Thailand?

[whybother]

Seems that everyone forgot one benefit Thaksin can enjoy from this new charge of being a wanted terrorist: he can now really apply for political asylum as victim of political persecution.

In fact, with this move, the Thai Govt made it easier for Thaksin to get this status and be heard at the concerned agency under the UN!

If there is as much evidence as the government is saying there is, then most western countries won't want to deal with him.

[alex_aka_P]

Canada took over a decade to extradite Saxena, the Thai national accused of fraud and central to causing the '97 Thai Currency Crisis

Fraud and money laundering is NOT terrorism charges, and vice versa.

It is a hard way to extradite someone for such a small (yes, small) charge as a fraud.

About terrorism and blood-on-hands - it is very different in current world. It simply puts you to the chicken run in every first-class country.

[Old Man River]

once he sets foot on Thai soil all the red shirts will be around him.

just imagine the drama they just had in the centre of Bangkok. then imagine that as an encampment around wherever he is being held.

they will either have to have him in a 'secret' location which i'm sure would not remain secret for long or suffer total chaos around his location.

either way it would be a martyr in the making

If he went to jail, he would walk in the front door and out of the back door into a waiting limousine. When you see the special treatment being given to Nattawud, et. al., you can only image how well Thaksin will be treated by the police.

[steppenwolf108]

If Thaksin actually stands trial, it seems to me that it should be in the Hague.

Let's be reasonable and stop putting Thaksin at the same level of Milosevic or a Nazi, but if the Thaksin would face trial at the Hague, the Thai Govt would have a hard time to prove its case.

When Thaksin or his mates were in power, they did not use the army to disperse the PAD, even when they took over the airports [act which falls into the terrorism].

This Govt/PAD DID use the lethal force and the burning of some buildings is was a "natural" consequence.

Thaksin did not call the PAD terrorists, while this Govt is cracking down everyone with some links to the reds, calling them terrorist

The list goes a long way....and we are talking of facts!

[rabo]

Just take his money away. Nothing is worst than a rich person losing all his money.

Dont ya think that he is keeping ALL of his assets within TH but not somewhere in Swiss/Japs/HKs accounts? And even more - don't you think that he is not awared/prepared for this step long ago and already moved all his values somewhere...mmm...else, far away from any official's eye?

I really doubt that the officially known part of his money is the all of his money. I bet that it is just a top of the iceberg, where the rest is never-to-be-known by us nor by TH officials. Losing thу part of official assets he is not even cried.

Thus, splitting him from his assets IN FULL - is simply and technically impossible IMO.

Back to the well documented rumor of the two passenger aircraft packed with 114 large suitcases and trunks that Thaksin took with him for his 2 week visit to Europe 2 days before the coup.

you can google "thaksin 2006 coup 58 56 suitcases aircraft",

Edited May 26, 2010 by rabo

[MrJohnson]

once he sets foot on Thai soil all the red shirts will be around him.

just imagine the drama they just had in the centre of Bangkok. then imagine that as an encampment around wherever he is being held.

they will either have to have him in a 'secret' location which i'm sure would not remain secret for long or suffer total chaos around his location.

either way it would be a martyr in the making

Indeed. Nobody in the Govt. serioulsy wants him back. Better let him stay a fugitive.,

[andrewbkk]

Two questions.

1

If he's banned from entering, say, France and the UK, would that also mean he's banned from using their airspace?

2

With regards to extradition, it is possible that this Geff Savage guy is being set up as a pawn.

1. Savage gets the death sentence.

2. The UK won't allow that and will protest.

3. Thailand reiterates its demand to have Thaksin extradited.

4. The UK pressures Montenegro into handing over Thaksin

5. A swap gets made: The UK gets Savage; Thailand gets Thaksin.

Seems unlikely though since it's hard to see why Thailand would want Thaksin back.

Edited May 26, 2010 by andrewbkk

[basjke]

Interpol to track Thaksin: Thai Foreign Ministry

Did I read anywhere in this thread that Interpol agreed to track Thaksin or even recognised the arrest warrant?

For sure this is again a lot of boeha from the foreign ministry without any facts to provide. Same as their announcements that Dubai kicked him out of the country umpteen times already.

When these people gonne grow up and tell the truth to their citizens.

[jdinasia]

Seems that everyone forgot one benefit Thaksin can enjoy from this new charge of being a wanted terrorist: he can now really apply for political asylum as victim of political persecution.

In fact, with this move, the Thai Govt made it easier for Thaksin to get this status and be heard at the concerned agency under the UN!

If there is as much evidence as the government is saying there is, then most western countries won't want to deal with him.

Steppenwolf missed the plot entirely. Political asylum for a terrorist that funded and contributed to domestic violence? Not a chance for asylum in any country worth mentioning. Which is, of course, why he bought citizenship in Montenegro. Montenegro is a country KNOWN for being unwilling to extradite its citizens.

[jayboy]

Two questions.

1

If he's banned from entering, say, France and the UK, would that also mean he's banned from using their airspace?

2

With regards to extradition, it is possible that this Geff Savage guy is being set up as a pawn.

1. Savage gets the death sentence.

2. The UK won't allow that and will protest.

3. Thailand reiterates its demand to have Thaksin extradited.

4. The UK pressures Montenegro into handing over Thaksin

5. A swap gets made: The UK gets Savage; Thailand gets Thaksin.

Seems unlikely though since it's hard to see why Thailand would want Thaksin back.

Excellent and thoughtful post which some might say epitomises the sophistication and knowledge of the Thai Visa community, and the standard of comment on recent events.

Edited May 26, 2010 by jayboy

[SoMeOnEnUlL]

I think that, as usual, the topic and article titles may be a little misleading. I read that Thailand is willing to collaborate with other countries and Interpol. I don't read where Interpol has made any comment or extra commitment to assist Thailand. I am sure it may be their duty to act if the warrant is considered valid and the opportunity presents itself, but I don't see anything in the articles that indicate any type of overt or enhanced action on Interpol tracking him down as the title seems to allude.

My thought, exactly.

[Jingthing]

I agree. Political asylum won't happen for him. Not sure he will be returned to Thailand or not, but this increases that possibility, and definitely turns the screws harder on his freedom to travel and access his funds. He will never be 100 percent sure his next destination isn't a huge mistake.

[whybother]

If Thaksin actually stands trial, it seems to me that it should be in the Hague.

Let's be reasonable and stop putting Thaksin at the same level of Milosevic or a Nazi, but if the Thaksin would face trial at the Hague, the Thai Govt would have a hard time to prove its case.

When Thaksin or his mates were in power, they did not use the army to disperse the PAD, even when they took over the airports [act which falls into the terrorism].

This Govt/PAD DID use the lethal force and the burning of some buildings is was a "natural" consequence.

Thaksin did not call the PAD terrorists, while this Govt is cracking down everyone with some links to the reds, calling them terrorist

The list goes a long way....and we are talking of facts!

The PPP tried to use the army to remove the PAD, but they didn't give the army enough legal protection, so they didn't go in.

The PAD went to the airport(s) to stop Somchai from arriving, not to force the closure of the airport. They didn't throw grenades, shoot at police or threaten to burn buildings, so I don't think it would be classed as terrorism. The fact that the airport was open for business 2 days after they left shows that they did little or no damage to the place.

Actually, most of the PAD protests were aimed at stopping the PPP from approving law and constitutional changes to whitewash Thaksin crimes. Their aim wasn't (directly) to bring down the PPP government. They stopped their airport protest (Dec 3) after the PPP were disbanded (Dec 2), but the PTP (ex-PPP MPs) were still in government.

The PTP (or the PPP before disbanding) could have called elections, but they decided to go for another parliamentary vote for PM, as they did after Samak was forced to step down. That vote was on Dec 18, when Abhisit was elected.

Edited May 26, 2010 by whybother

[jdinasia]

If Thaksin actually stands trial, it seems to me that it should be in the Hague.

Let's be reasonable and stop putting Thaksin at the same level of Milosevic or a Nazi, but if the Thaksin would face trial at the Hague, the Thai Govt would have a hard time to prove its case.

When Thaksin or his mates were in power, they did not use the army to disperse the PAD, even when they took over the airports [act which falls into the terrorism].

This Govt/PAD DID use the lethal force and the burning of some buildings is was a "natural" consequence.

Thaksin did not call the PAD terrorists, while this Govt is cracking down everyone with some links to the reds, calling them terrorist

The list goes a long way....and we are talking of facts!

Umm point by point? You have no idea if Thailand would have a hard time proving its case or not. (Money trails and communications intercepts and his own words could convict him)

When Thaksin or his cronies were in power they tried using the police and military ordinance (outdated rdx laced teargas fired straight into the PAD protesters) When they tried to use the Army, the military refused. Your assertion that the airport incident was terrorism is unsupported by law or fact.

The PAD is not the government and your assertion otherwise is spurious. Lethal force was justified. There is no "natural" consequence that causes terrorism like the burning down of 30+ buildings in a city.

The PPP did charge PAD leaders as terrorists so again you are eitjer lieing or just ignorant.

Your "facts" are in no way "facts" they are simply propoganda.

edit ---- there actuallt IS a "Natural consequence" that causes the burning down of many buildings in a city ---- orders from your terrorist leaders. Not bending to the will of those terrorists is not the proximal cause of the burning --- the orders from the leaders is.

Edited May 26, 2010 by jdinasia

[rabo]

If Thaksin actually stands trial, it seems to me that it should be in the Hague.

Let's be reasonable and stop putting Thaksin at the same level of Milosevic or a Nazi, but if the Thaksin would face trial at the Hague, the Thai Govt would have a hard time to prove its case.

When Thaksin or his mates were in power, they did not use the army to disperse the PAD, even when they took over the airports [act which falls into the terrorism].

This Govt/PAD DID use the lethal force and the burning of some buildings is was a "natural" consequence.

Thaksin did not call the PAD terrorists, while this Govt is cracking down everyone with some links to the reds, calling them terrorist

The list goes a long way....and we are talking of facts!

OK, let's be reasonable. Many, including western bodies were already comparing Thaksin to the likes of Milosevic even before the coup for his his human rights violations linked to the death of thousands.

So lets stop putting Thaksin at the level of a few thousand yellows who (illegally) occupied an airport for 8 days, cleaning up after they left to the satisfaction of Airport staff, to protest an illegal government that was thrown out days later by the courts.

Could it be that the protest was a "natural" consequence of Thaksin's human rights abuses?

IF you want double standards, I say, double standards for all!

[GungaDin]

Don't let the bugger near a mobile phone!

[featography]

This is all as much a diplomatic push as much as a legal one and a pressure raising one. Thaksin had to make certain changes very quickly to advantage himself whihc is why the November eelction was refused. Now time is running short. This manouver by the government makes us eof time more difficult on a number of fronts for Thaksin such as having to check very carefully status before travelling, mor pressure on coutnries to shut him up or keep him out and another violent move by a group linked to him would have to be thought about very carefully although unfortunately for him the red group that still has leaders and stayed out of the recent round (and were actually highly critical of) are not really under any control of Thaksin unlike many of the currently banged up or in hiding leaders.

Everyone is but a pawn or bigger, in a political chess game. Adds a twist and infamy to the song, One Night In Bangkok

[brahmburgers]

I agree that bringing him back to Thailand would be a big mistake politically - and lead to upheavals worse than the past several weeks. Even if his actual support drops to about 1% of Thais (my estimate is he currently has around 5%), that 1% can cause a lot of damage. T has enemies everywhere he looks, whether real or imagined.

And what of Pojamin? Surely she contributed payments to the Red rallies, as likely did the kids and friends of T, and those who saw a big windfall if/when Thaksin were to come back in triumph. Not just the big catfish, but all the guppies who paid in to the losing gamble of the Red rallies - should be compelled to pay for damages which ensued.

I picture Thaksin tried at Int'l court at the Hague someday, b4 2 long. It will be funny if Ortega, and the Fiji president and the Liberian Diamond merchants, and Montenegran and Thai mafia dons all show up. All the nefarious tough guys that Thaksin befriended by telling them he would pile heaps of money in to their laps. They can all show up at T's jail cell and privately beg Thaksin to pay them some of the money he promised - before he's led away in chains to the blockhouse.

[Zolt]

. . . extradite? . . . to Thailand? . . . unlikely any country will extradite to a country of thorough systemic judicial corruption . . . certainly not their own nationals, and unlikely a Thai politician, obviously corrupt and with blood running down his forearms, or not.

. . . Canada took over a decade to extradite Saxena, the Thai national accused of fraud and central to causing the '97 Thai Currency Crisis . . . the guy is nearly dead now, from old age (probably then, subject to some sort of diplomatic deal) . . . does anyone really think ANY country wants the notoriety of extraditing a political hot potato like Toxin for summary trial and execution in a 3rd world country like Thailand?

. . . I somehow doubt this will happen.

Actually, Thaksin getting arrested but with a decade-long extradition process would be the best scenario for the government: Having him in jail at home would pour oil on the fires in the Northeast. If he's abroad with his movements and financial transaction restricted, he's a lot less harmful.

Only a few countries have extradition treaties with Thailand - basically SE Asian countries + US, UK, Canada, but no other European countries. On the other hand, the other countries will at least kick him out if he engages into any kind of political activity while in their territory

[ratcatcher]

. . . extradite? . . . to Thailand? . . . unlikely most any country will extradite to a country of systemic judicial corruption . . . cetainly not their own nationals, and unlikely Thai politicians, obviously corrupt and with blood running down his forearms, or not.

. . . Canada took over a decade to extradite Saxena, the Thai national accused of fraud and central to causing the '97 Thai Currency Crisis . . . the guy is nearly dead now, from old age . . . does anyone really think any country wants the notoriety of extraditing a political hot potato like Toxin for summary trial and execution in a 3rd world country like Thailand?

. . . I somehow doubt this will happen.

But Canada DID extradite Saxena.

Extradition is secondary in this than curtailing his movements and actions. He won't be able to put on a show in France about being free to go shopping with his daughter at LV. He'll be stuck in a place like Montenegro whilst being told NOT to make any political statements from there. Effectively curtailing his ability to continue to lead an armed insurrection against the people of Thailand.

Several members have made valid points as to why Thaksin should not ever come back to Thailand.

The most obvious is the fact that he will be immediately mobbed, wherever he is landed or as soon as word got out, by his Red Sheep.

The difference between Saxeena and Thaksin is night and day. Saxeena is all but forgotten and could die tomorrow and nobody except a few close friends and family would care.

If Thaksin died there would be weeks of national mourning among his flock and huge disturbances.

It would be like a monster with its head cut off and its body thrashing around wildly in all directions.

Mr.Abhisit, if you are wise, keep him away, far away. Let him wander around in his lonely delusional world with all his money, but bring him back and all hel_l will break loose.

[Zolt]

I picture Thaksin tried at Int'l court at the Hague someday, b4 2 long. It will be funny if Ortega, and the Fiji president and the Liberian Diamond merchants, and Montenegran and Thai mafia dons all show up. All the nefarious tough guys that Thaksin befriended by telling them he would pile heaps of money in to their laps. They can all show up at T's jail cell and privately beg Thaksin to pay them some of the money he promised - before he's led away in chains to the blockhouse.

You'd need a UN security council resolution OR Thailand's supreme court renouncing jurisdiction over Thaksin's crimes for him to be tried by the ICC. Not gonna happen. Also Thailand has not ratified the treaties giving jurisdiction to the ICC over their nationals, so I doubt it's possible at all. The ICC ain't some sort of superman of justice. Mostly it tries the people that no one else wants to. Some kind of international waste basket of justice.

[Jingthing]

They can send him by military plane to a remote island prison. Thailand can do this. I feel people are overly exaggerating the logistical problems with bringing him back to trial. Its worth doing. I believe the Thai government has overwhelming evidence to convict him or they would not have issued this warrant. Ultimately, that would be healing.

[NVass]

Maybe the Thai Government should enlist the help of MOSAD! They seem pretty efficient at taking care of people who irritate them!

[MikeyIdea]

Some of you are missing the point here; It's not a question of if the Thai government can get him back or not, if they want to they can. It's quite obvious that they don't want him back though.

Also read the title; Interpol will TRACK Thaksin, doesn't say anything more than that

[Jingthing]

I still take the contrarian view here. They DO want him back and they want this business FINISHED.

[junglist]

Actually, Thaksin getting arrested but with a decade-long extradition process would be the best scenario for the government: Having him in jail at home would pour oil on the fires in the Northeast. If he's abroad with his movements and financial transaction restricted, he's a lot less harmful.

Pouring oil on his jail cell is a great idea thanks. 55555555

[jayboy]

Even if his actual support drops to about 1% of Thais (my estimate is he currently has around 5%), that 1% can cause a lot of damage.

Any evidence for the 5% figure you mention?

If it's anywhere near accurate then Abhisit should call for elections rapidly and capitalise on Thaksin's unpopularity.

But I'm guessing Abhisit has a somewhat stronger grip on political realities than you do.

My assumption is that Thaksin still has 50% support or more, and that's what his opponents also believe.

[rixalex]

My assumption is that Thaksin still has 50% support or more, and that's what his opponents also believe.

Still has? His nominee party didn't have anything like that level of support at the last general election in 2007, and my feeling is that the events of the last few months will not have changed that for the better. Quite the reverse.

30 - 35% if he's lucky would be my guess.