Thai Medics And Rescue Teams Bemoan Soldiers' Lack Of Trust

[webfact]

Rescue teams bemoan soldiers' lack of trust

By Pongphon Sarnsamak

The Nation

Medics and rescue teams claimed yesterday that the biggest obstacle they faced when trying to tend to victims between May 14 to 19 was soldiers.

BANGKOK: -- Dr Pichit Siriwan, deputy director of Thai Red Cross Society's Relief and Community Health Bureau, said his team had a lot of trouble with uncooperative troops stationed around the main red-shirt rally site in the Rajprasong area when they tried to pick up people injured in the skirmishes.

No soldiers or security officers at military checkpoints were allowing paramedics to enter the clash zones to help injured people, he said.

"It was very difficult for us to enter the areas. We had to call several people, including high-level military officers, to let us through," he said. "Cooperation from the military was key to us helping the injured."

According to the National Institute of Emergency Medical Service, the Centre for Resolution of the Emergency Situation's operation from May 14-19 to reclaim the Rajprasong rally site left 467 people injured and 56 dead, two of whom were paramedics.

From the start of the red-shirt protest in mid-March, 88 people were killed and 1,885 injured. Phranangklao Hospital director Dr Thawatchai Wongkong-sawasdi said the key problem was the lack of a communication system.

"There was no mobile-phone signal, and we had to resort to using walkie-talkies to contact each other," he said. In addition, wearing a paramedic's uniform did little to protect them. He said he even advised his rescue team not to use motorcycles inside dangerous zones, as that would put them at more risk.

Nanthana Metprasarn of the Erawan Emergency Medical Centre said paramedics and rescue teams took no sides and that their only job was helping victims. She said her team could not tend to gunshot victims inside Pathum Wanaram Temple because they were stopped at the gate and questioned about their political stance.

"Both of them [the troops and protesters] thought we were on the other side. This was a big problem when it came to helping the injured," she said.

Dr Thangdan Pisalphong, of King Mongkut Hospital, said all sides should ensure the security of the rescue teams. He said when his team arrived to pick up a body they found a bomb next to the corpse.

Dr Chatbin Jintanasilapin, of Vachira Hospital, said it was also very important for rescue teams to recruit professional people for work like this. He said some volunteers had no experience of working in crisis situations like this, so they panicked and were unable to do their job.

-- The Nation 2010-05-27

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[whybother]

Is the headline correct?

Rescue teams bemoan soldiers' lack of trust

and

"Both of them [the troops and protesters] thought we were on the other side. This was a big problem when it came to helping the injured," she said.

This was one of those unarmed protestors that the army shot:

He said when his team arrived to pick up a body they found a bomb next to the corpse.

They didn't take the bomb to the hospital, so when he got there he was just an unarmed protestor.

[hammered]

This is a problem whenever there is a conflict.

[SomTumTiger]

Perhaps because the military knew that the Red's had orders to shoot medics - to generate more publicity

[Portlandstone]

In the many hours that I spent around the fighting and protests I never witnessed any tension or hostilities between the protesters and the ambulance personnel -- they were shoulder to shoulder like brothers in arms.  I have video footage on the night of May 14th at Soi Rangnam where Vajira Hospital medical personnel attempted to rescue a dead person and being shot at multiple times, taking great risk, but made it out.  On the very next day a person from the same Hospital crew was shot in the head and killed by the army, I believe in the same location.  It seems to be an indication of media manipulation to say that Reds and Army "alike" were anti-medical personnel.  Apparently this is a lie to cover up the truth.

Somtumtiger and hammerred, your comments show your lack of honesty as well as where your loyalty lies, duly noted.

[difos57]

Quote,

Dr Thangdan Pisalphong, of King Mongkut Hospital, said all sides should ensure the security of the rescue teams. He said when his team arrived to pick up a body they found a bomb next to the corpse. Quote

While the fighting was ongoing, I would think that all security measures were taken to minimize the loss of lives. Having paremdics killed would only add to the many problems they face.

You have to remember that the soldiers seen their fellow soldiers and police murdered by the red terrorist at a time when the soldiers were unarmed and the terrorist snipers used artillery. The soldiers are people who were only trying to do their job. They did not have choice about being there. The red terrorist and the red shirts had a choice. They could go home at any time they wanted to and if they would have done that at the beginning of the demonstrations when they first heard of pemeditated violence talk from their red leaders, then no lives would have been lost. The red shirts are 100% responsible for all lives lost.

My condolences to the wives and families of the soldiers and police who died.

[chantorn]

In the many hours that I spent around the fighting and protests I never witnessed any tension or hostilities between the protesters and the ambulance personnel -- they were shoulder to shoulder like brothers in arms. I have video footage on the night of May 14th at Soi Rangnam where Vajira Hospital medical personnel attempted to rescue a dead person and being shot at multiple times, taking great risk, but made it out. On the very next day a person from the same Hospital crew was shot in the head and killed by the army, I believe in the same location. It seems to be an indication of media manipulation to say that Reds and Army "alike" were anti-medical personnel. Apparently this is a lie to cover up the truth.

Somtumtiger and hammerred, your comments show your lack of honesty as well as where your loyalty lies, duly noted.

I admire your courage to tell the truth.

DSI and CRES will be arriving at your door step soon. If you are luckly, you may be be deported. If you are not luck, you will be like the English man & Australian man; in jail. Because you have just admitted that you are at the crime scene taking video, when the law say you must not be in that gathering.

I am sure your IP address have been requested any moment now.

[chantorn]

Perhaps because the military knew that the Red's had orders to shoot medics - to generate more publicity

Or the other way round. Depending who you talk to.

With only NBT and no PTV, I think I know where you get your view and information.

[SomTumTiger]

Perhaps because the military knew that the Red's had orders to shoot medics - to generate more publicity

Or the other way round. Depending who you talk to.

With only NBT and no PTV, I think I know where you get your view and information.

I get my information from ThaiVisa News Clippings "Daily Update" Section. So I would guess my sources are far far more varied and widespread than yours. And assuming that I accept what is told to me word for word, with no critical thought at context or the sources - would make me the "average Thai student"

Edited May 27, 2010 by SomTumTiger

[harrry]

When the Red group brought food and suplies to the gathering in two ambulances with sirens and lights opeating it srely gave reason for the troops to doubt.

[KireB]

In the many hours that I spent around the fighting and protests I never witnessed any tension or hostilities between the protesters and the ambulance personnel -- they were shoulder to shoulder like brothers in arms. I have video footage on the night of May 14th at Soi Rangnam where Vajira Hospital medical personnel attempted to rescue a dead person and being shot at multiple times, taking great risk, but made it out. On the very next day a person from the same Hospital crew was shot in the head and killed by the army, I believe in the same location. It seems to be an indication of media manipulation to say that Reds and Army "alike" were anti-medical personnel. Apparently this is a lie to cover up the truth.

Somtumtiger and hammerred, your comments show your lack of honesty as well as where your loyalty lies, duly noted.

I admire your courage to tell the truth.

DSI and CRES will be arriving at your door step soon. If you are luckly, you may be be deported. If you are not luck, you will be like the English man & Australian man; in jail. Because you have just admitted that you are at the crime scene taking video, when the law say you must not be in that gathering.

I am sure your IP address have been requested any moment now.

Same truth as the Truth Today campaign? Red propaganda. Please Portlandstone put that alleged video material of yours on Youtube, post the link and then lets form an opinion. If not, you re just posting rabble.

[SomTumTiger]

In the many hours that I spent around the fighting and protests I never witnessed any tension or hostilities between the protesters and the ambulance personnel -- they were shoulder to shoulder like brothers in arms. I have video footage on the night of May 14th at Soi Rangnam where Vajira Hospital medical personnel attempted to rescue a dead person and being shot at multiple times, taking great risk, but made it out. On the very next day a person from the same Hospital crew was shot in the head and killed by the army, I believe in the same location. It seems to be an indication of media manipulation to say that Reds and Army "alike" were anti-medical personnel. Apparently this is a lie to cover up the truth.

Somtumtiger and hammerred, your comments show your lack of honesty as well as where your loyalty lies, duly noted.

Note all you want - I don't have any stake in your feelings or thoughts

[OzMick]

In the many hours that I spent around the fighting and protests I never witnessed any tension or hostilities between the protesters and the ambulance personnel -- they were shoulder to shoulder like brothers in arms. I have video footage on the night of May 14th at Soi Rangnam where Vajira Hospital medical personnel attempted to rescue a dead person and being shot at multiple times, taking great risk, but made it out. On the very next day a person from the same Hospital crew was shot in the head and killed by the army, I believe in the same location. It seems to be an indication of media manipulation to say that Reds and Army "alike" were anti-medical personnel. Apparently this is a lie to cover up the truth.

Somtumtiger and hammerred, your comments show your lack of honesty as well as where your loyalty lies, duly noted.

"...............a person from the same Hospital crew was shot in the head and killed by the army............"

As you're not sure of the location, is it not reasonable to assume that you did not witness this event? Yet you blame the army, with no grounds for this belief given, or even a suggestion that it may not have been the army or that the incident was accidental.

Your red slip is showing, again.

[sjjmmi]

When the Red group brought food and suplies to the gathering in two ambulances with sirens and lights opeating it srely gave reason for the troops to doubt.

[harrry]

When the Red group brought food and suplies to the gathering in two ambulances with sirens and lights opeating it srely gave reason for the troops to doubt.

glad to see you are lost for words

[jdinasia]

This is a problem whenever there is a conflict.

It didn't help that rescue vehicles (or pickups marked as rescue vehicles) were used to bring supplies in to the reds during the time that the military was attempting to hold a tight perimeter. Reds flying false flags as rescue workers did this and caused some (not all -- and who knows how much?) of the distrust.

[rabo]

In the many hours that I spent around the fighting and protests I never witnessed any tension or hostilities between the protesters and the ambulance personnel -- they were shoulder to shoulder like brothers in arms. I have video footage on the night of May 14th at Soi Rangnam where Vajira Hospital medical personnel attempted to rescue a dead person and being shot at multiple times, taking great risk, but made it out. On the very next day a person from the same Hospital crew was shot in the head and killed by the army, I believe in the same location. It seems to be an indication of media manipulation to say that Reds and Army "alike" were anti-medical personnel. Apparently this is a lie to cover up the truth.

Somtumtiger and hammerred, your comments show your lack of honesty as well as where your loyalty lies, duly noted.

Did you see the soldier who sighted his rifle and shot the person in the head? How far away was he? I do not ask as a propagandist demanding absolute proof, you are certainly entitled to you opinion that soldiers may have shot someone. I only ask because it is such a critical question. I would really like to know. I find it hard to believe the Army would be behind such systematic killing of so many rescue workers. If there is more than circumstantial evidence I think it should be clearly stated. If it seemed to be the soldiers, without proof, that too should be stated.

Edited May 27, 2010 by rabo

[mauGR1]

Surely it's regrettable if it's true that the Army shot paramedics and innocent people, but it may happen in every war, and quite often you see the Army killing the Army itself by mistake

Now, i want to ask a honest question to the Red supporters of this Forum:

Why did the Reds stopped wearing Red shirts ?

My answer? To be easily confused with bystanders and act unpunished.

I don't exclude too that some troops might have been confused or even trigger-happy, but i won't expect them to be exactly angels, do you ?

Easy now to put the blame on the Army, but the Govt. gave countless warnings for the innocent demonstrators to clear the area, somebody did not listen, i guess they have only themselves to blame.

Sorry if i sound ruthless,i am just being realistic, i regret every single life lost in this madness, may they rest in peace.

[chantorn]

In the many hours that I spent around the fighting and protests I never witnessed any tension or hostilities between the protesters and the ambulance personnel -- they were shoulder to shoulder like brothers in arms. I have video footage on the night of May 14th at Soi Rangnam where Vajira Hospital medical personnel attempted to rescue a dead person and being shot at multiple times, taking great risk, but made it out. On the very next day a person from the same Hospital crew was shot in the head and killed by the army, I believe in the same location. It seems to be an indication of media manipulation to say that Reds and Army "alike" were anti-medical personnel. Apparently this is a lie to cover up the truth.

Somtumtiger and hammerred, your comments show your lack of honesty as well as where your loyalty lies, duly noted.

Did you see the soldier who sighted his rifle and shot the person in the head? How far away was he? I do not ask as a propagandist demanding absolute proof, you are certainly entitled to you opinion that soldiers may have shot someone. I only ask because it is such a critical question. I would really like to know. I find it hard to believe the Army would be behind such systematic killing of so many rescue workers. If there is more than circumstantial evidence I think it should be clearly stated. If it seemed to be the soldiers, without proof, that too should be stated.

Same same. Don't be so 1 sided.

Did you see a red-shirt who sighted his rifle and shot the person in the head? How far away was he? I do not ask as a propagandist demanding absolute proof, you are certainly entitled to you opinion that red-shirt may have shot someone. I only ask because it is such a critical question. I would really like to know. I find it hard to believe the red-shirt would be behind such systematic killing of so many rescue workers. If there is more than circumstantial evidence I think it should be clearly stated. If it seemed to be the red-shirts, without proof, that too should be stated.

[Portlandstone]

Ozmick, you are right.  Friday the 14th was the last day (night) I witnessed any shooting and protests, Din Daeng and Rangnam being two of them.  After that I only got my news from the net.  News of the shooting of the Vajira med person should be on here somewhere.  It was on Saturday (15), I believe.

[BigC]

so don't the army have army mediscs in thailand ?

[BigC]

Ozmick, you are right.  Friday the 14th was the last day (night) I witnessed any shooting and protests, Din Daeng and Rangnam being two of them.  After that I only got my news from the net.  News of the shooting of the Vajira med person should be on here somewhere.  It was on Saturday (15), I believe.

thinks the miltitent people in the reds were up for killing anybody. the army could probably not gurantee the rescue workers safty probably from both side. they might have either got shot by the reds or caught in the cross fire. still the army have medics. i am sure. every army has to have them with all the right tools. so they should have been the ones in there. an army with out medics is half an army. soliders get injured all the time. the medics job is to get them fit and back out on the battle field

[nickupton]

She said her team could not tend to gunshot victims inside Pathum Wanaram Temple because they were stopped at the gate and questioned about their political stance.

This is one of the things I find so distasteful about the redshirts, this constant quizzing of people's affiliation. So what if the ambulance crews stated that they didn't agree with the redshirts? Would they not be allowed to treat the wounded? It seems that this has at least delayed treatment to people inside the temple and may have resulted in a loss of life that could have been saved.

I really worry where this stopping of people and asking their political views will lead to.

[nickupton]

In the many hours that I spent around the fighting and protests I never witnessed any tension or hostilities between the protesters and the ambulance personnel -- they were shoulder to shoulder like brothers in arms. I have video footage on the night of May 14th at Soi Rangnam where Vajira Hospital medical personnel attempted to rescue a dead person and being shot at multiple times, taking great risk, but made it out. On the very next day a person from the same Hospital crew was shot in the head and killed by the army, I believe in the same location. It seems to be an indication of media manipulation to say that Reds and Army "alike" were anti-medical personnel. Apparently this is a lie to cover up the truth.

Somtumtiger and hammerred, your comments show your lack of honesty as well as where your loyalty lies, duly noted.

Did you see the soldier who sighted his rifle and shot the person in the head? How far away was he? I do not ask as a propagandist demanding absolute proof, you are certainly entitled to you opinion that soldiers may have shot someone. I only ask because it is such a critical question. I would really like to know. I find it hard to believe the Army would be behind such systematic killing of so many rescue workers. If there is more than circumstantial evidence I think it should be clearly stated. If it seemed to be the soldiers, without proof, that too should be stated.

Same same. Don't be so 1 sided.

Did you see a red-shirt who sighted his rifle and shot the person in the head? How far away was he? I do not ask as a propagandist demanding absolute proof, you are certainly entitled to you opinion that red-shirt may have shot someone. I only ask because it is such a critical question. I would really like to know. I find it hard to believe the red-shirt would be behind such systematic killing of so many rescue workers. If there is more than circumstantial evidence I think it should be clearly stated. If it seemed to be the red-shirts, without proof, that too should be stated.

Unfortunately, I don't find it at all hard to believe that redshirts were behind the killing of resuce workers. They violated a hospital in the past, they disregarded the idea that the temple was a place of sanctuary and non violence when they attacked the reporter for the French TV station and they put a pre planned plot to burn buildings into action and attacked the media. These things lead me to believe that planned violence and a disregard of accepted conventions on what are not acceptable targets are part of their tactics.

[rabo]

In the many hours that I spent around the fighting and protests I never witnessed any tension or hostilities between the protesters and the ambulance personnel -- they were shoulder to shoulder like brothers in arms. I have video footage on the night of May 14th at Soi Rangnam where Vajira Hospital medical personnel attempted to rescue a dead person and being shot at multiple times, taking great risk, but made it out. On the very next day a person from the same Hospital crew was shot in the head and killed by the army, I believe in the same location. It seems to be an indication of media manipulation to say that Reds and Army "alike" were anti-medical personnel. Apparently this is a lie to cover up the truth.

Somtumtiger and hammerred, your comments show your lack of honesty as well as where your loyalty lies, duly noted.

Did you see the soldier who sighted his rifle and shot the person in the head? How far away was he? I do not ask as a propagandist demanding absolute proof, you are certainly entitled to you opinion that soldiers may have shot someone. I only ask because it is such a critical question. I would really like to know. I find it hard to believe the Army would be behind such systematic killing of so many rescue workers. If there is more than circumstantial evidence I think it should be clearly stated. If it seemed to be the soldiers, without proof, that too should be stated.

Same same. Don't be so 1 sided.

Did you see a red-shirt who sighted his rifle and shot the person in the head? How far away was he? I do not ask as a propagandist demanding absolute proof, you are certainly entitled to you opinion that red-shirt may have shot someone. I only ask because it is such a critical question. I would really like to know. I find it hard to believe the red-shirt would be behind such systematic killing of so many rescue workers. If there is more than circumstantial evidence I think it should be clearly stated. If it seemed to be the red-shirts, without proof, that too should be stated.

I never made such a statement, but chantorn, your English is impeccable.

[Portlandstone]

Rabo, I am similar to you -- I am no propagandist, and I have no allegiance to the Reds.  It seems that on this forum if you don't openly swear to the gov't/Yellows, you will however be labeled as such.  I only care about what I saw before me.

I was there on the 14th, but the medic was killed on the 15th.  However I saw what I saw and I cannot and will not change that.  The army was hidden behind a wall and at least one tree at the corner, largely in the dark with a street lamp not far away providing only minimal light.  The nearest protesters to them might have been about 30 to 50 yards away, ducking behind cars but sometimes running around out in the open.  I was up there for a bit, only a few minutes, but then hung back at about 100 yards, perhaps.  It was all somewhat chaotic and all like a bunch of nonsense.  It was chaotic and all of a sudden loud announcements were made, people were yelling, and up flew an ambulance truck (like the small toyota kind), quickly turned around and backed it's end down near the "frontline" and all of a sudden everyone started frantically running all over the place, hard to tell what they were doing but apparently lugging the body around, more yelling announcements on a loudspeaker (from the top of the truck?), by this time bullets started being fired, more commotion right there at the ambulance with everyone running around like I'm amazed they didn't knock each other over by running into one another, then everyone scattered back to their 'hiding spots' and the ambulance took off at racing speed, with the back end opened and a single, lone pair of feet clearly sticking off the back end (just a body, no attendant), with gun shots continuing, finally after the ambulance cleared out there was applauding and yelling and whistling.  A very hairy operation just for an ambulance crew to go an pick up a body near the 'front.'  The ambulance crew (a few of them actually) returned a bit later but this time parked well back, much further down the street.

[jdinasia]

In the many hours that I spent around the fighting and protests I never witnessed any tension or hostilities between the protesters and the ambulance personnel -- they were shoulder to shoulder like brothers in arms. I have video footage on the night of May 14th at Soi Rangnam where Vajira Hospital medical personnel attempted to rescue a dead person and being shot at multiple times, taking great risk, but made it out. On the very next day a person from the same Hospital crew was shot in the head and killed by the army, I believe in the same location. It seems to be an indication of media manipulation to say that Reds and Army "alike" were anti-medical personnel. Apparently this is a lie to cover up the truth.

Somtumtiger and hammerred, your comments show your lack of honesty as well as where your loyalty lies, duly noted.

Feel free to

1) Post your "video evidence".

2) Post your proof of who shot ANYONE but in particular the person you claim was shot by the army.

3) Please explain WHY the rescue personal quoted who has actual first hand knowledge tells a story that does not match yours?

I have read your posts and they tend to be filled with propoganda and claims that are unsubstantiated. Your bias is "duly noted"

[animatic]

Perhaps because the military knew that the Red's had orders to shoot medics - to generate more publicity

That was observed.

Not trust lost,

but protecting the emergency personnel from sniper attack.

One side needs to see minimal injuries, to get the job done,

the other side for maximum injuries to be seen, to get the job done.

Political needs at polar opposites.

Can YOU guess which is which?

Edited May 27, 2010 by animatic

[animatic]

This is a problem whenever there is a conflict.

It didn't help that rescue vehicles (or pickups marked as rescue vehicles) were used to bring supplies in to the reds during the time that the military was attempting to hold a tight perimeter. Reds flying false flags as rescue workers did this and caused some (not all -- and who knows how much?) of the distrust.

Goes right to the heart of the matter.

[Portlandstone]

In the time that I posted the above reply, I see there are already a few more that clearly mistate the facts.  NickUpton and BigC, your facts are quite erroneous as I saw them.  On the night of the 14th, Rangnam Rd., there were practically hundreds of people lined all along the sidewalks of the road with a few running across sometimes.  Although a few guys up front had what might have been sling shots, all the rest had empty hands and clearly had no guns, neither visible and from what I was able to see and judge, none hidden.  It wasn't the protesters that were a danger to the ambulance personnel as they both were all standing around shoulder to shoulder, chitchatting.  It was the mysterious force down at the end of the road, the sounds of numerous rifles, all similar sounding -- clearly the army.  It was the protesters who helped and provided backing to the ambulance crews whenever they showed up and wanted to rush in to pick up their dead fellows, I don't know why you state that the med people and red shirt were disagreeing with one another -- clearly not.  When the crews came back later on, they again hung out with the protesters, like buddies.  I don't know why people are saying otherwise. 

To the guy who stated the Reds were the ones who killed Reds at the temple, I am under the impression that it was unidentified gunmen likely up on the rail tracks, and this would have been on the 19th, when the army clearly already occupied the area.  It will be interesting however if we can find out who it really was.