Thai Cops & Corruption

[Haacker]

I just read in the post that cops need to be reorganizes because of corruption. I am not sure if I have the facts, but I was told that a beat cop is paid bt200 per day. He has to buy his own gun and amo, his tool belt etc He has to buy his own moto bike etc. Has to buy his rank. If any of this is true then it seems that payola is built in to the system. The way this might be fixed is to pay good wages to the cops. Require that all replicates have 2 years of college in criminal law. Then they can go to police academe. Then and only then can they start work. The starting wages should be bt2000-3000 per month. The education and wages go up words from there. What do you think?

[smokie36]

You'll be suggesting a proper taxation system next.

[thaicbr]

Cops starting wage is 7,500b and goes up a lot if they have attended Police academy Starting 11.500b up. They get low cost loans and discounted prices to buy the motorcycles and equipment. also most if not all get low cost housing provided.

All info from a serving police academy cadet that i used to teach.

Also they get to keep 60% of all fines that are levied. This is generally the problem with corruption in the ranks. NOT all cops are corrupt and you have levels of corruption.

Edited May 31, 2010 by thaicbr

[givenall]

Cops starting wage is 7,500b and goes up a lot if they have attended Police academy Starting 11.500b up. They get low cost loans and discounted prices to buy the motorcycles and equipment. also most if not all get low cost housing provided.

All info from a serving police academy cadet that i used to teach.

Also they get to keep 60% of all fines that are levied. This is generally the problem with corruption in the ranks. NOT all cops are corrupt and you have levels of corruption.

They just want more than they are willing to work for. As they say it is easier to still than work for

And the ends justifies the mean, I can write many like this but wont change anything

[richard_smith237]

You'd need to provide an altenative social welfare system then...

As its stands at the low end, with little education the legal options are to join the Police, join the forces, become a Monk.

If wages were increased there would likely be less jobs available and more people turning to crime.

At the moment the system appears to be run with a 'Job Creation' ideal. As soon as that is replaced a better social welfare system has to be created and people will complain that their tax supports lazy buggers !

There's a happy medium in there somewhere, but as society matures the cheats, liers and scam artists learn to abuse the system.

Edited May 31, 2010 by richard_smith237

[WarpSpeed]

2 years of college in criminal law? What country currently requires such stringent education just for being a beat cop? 3 to 4 months maybe like military boot camp but that's also on the payroll. Most take into account military training as it should be but who can afford to go to school for 2 years just for a 2000 to 3000b per month entry level job like you suggested? Maybe 20,000 to 30,000b which is where I think they should begin anyway as it's a dangerous & crappy job many times worth more respect salary wise..

[Haacker]

Cops starting wage is 7,500b and goes up a lot if they have attended Police academy Starting 11.500b up. They get low cost loans and discounted prices to buy the motorcycles and equipment. also most if not all get low cost housing provided.

All info from a serving police academy cadet that i used to teach.

Also they get to keep 60% of all fines that are levied. This is generally the problem with corruption in the ranks. NOT all cops are corrupt and you have levels of corruption.

Thanks Fat Member for your info. You did not respond to the cost of RANK. Is there a discount there too LOL Is it subsidized, by the people of Thailand? What!!!!!!!!! keep 60% of the fines. Are you kidding me. Why pay them wages at all, there making a killing on fines.

[Chunky1]

OP really understands Thailand.

[needforspeed]

They 'Could' make a decent living 'if' they worked. Fines for a multitude of road offenses that we all see every day BUT they don't want to work, that's in my part of the country. Where l am, after dark at least 40% don't have lights, 90% don't have helmets, 40% under age, no license, insurance, a nice little earner but l have never seen a cop after 4pm.

Transam you need to look around better, maybe the local massage parlour????

[jubby]

Hacker, couldn't you pick an easier Topic to get your teeth into ?

I've come across lots of Police here, mainly because there are Lots of Police here. I suspect the force is Huge.

On the whole , they seem a friendly bunch and have been fair with me , Its certainly not the Police force I'm used to but its not all bad.

I doubt I'll ever fully understand what they really do, As the Village Headman seems to take care of most disputes and I've never known anyone actually call the Police. I did once when involved in a traffic accident, but the other party didn't want them involved.

They do seem to turn up from time to time to take care of other business.

The Plus points of the Job do seem to be flexible, very flexible hours and the opportunity to run other Business at the same time.

Its certainly nothing we could possibly Fix, if indeed it does need fixing

[gotglue]

No probs at all giving a copper 1-200bt on the road. Why put it through the books when, as said before, they get a cut off each ticket. Waste of my time and his going on the straight narrow. With regards to minor traffic violations, it's not corruption in any sense.

[thaicbr]

With regards to minor traffic violations, it's not corruption in any sense.

That depends on if its actually a crime that they have pulled you on or that they have made one up or exaggerated. Just look at how many bikes get pulled for riding on the right (the law states that on a 2 lane highway this is permissible) but loads of people still get done.

[moe666]

Why stop they will not chase you.

[thaicbr]

Actually sometimes they do chase ya. and or radio ahead.

[NBD]

To be honest, I think the "corruption" here is quite a good thing in most instances.

You're speeding, you pay 100B and off you go. No sanctimonious lecture, no penalty points as you would get in England, and most western countries. Easy.

Most policemen I know here do work sometimes, and they're on call pretty much 24/7. Salaries vary depending on age and experience but even with the housing, loans etc 16K a month if you take it as an average, is not a whole lot of money to keep a family on. So they cream a bit off traffic fines. Myself I would rather that than it getting sent to some stupid bureaucracy so that they can dream up road safety campaigns and buy more speed cameras.

Of course the higher level stuff, unneccessary violence and setting people up is not so good, but I have no experience of any of that.

[Heng]

Plenty of folks support families on 200 Baht a day. Plenty of folks find it 'impossible' to support their families making 2,000 Baht a day.

[Mosha]

In La-Un last year 9 police on the beat were sacked for corruption. They were forgetting to share the spoils with their superiors. 1 policemans wife cooks food for sale from home. From what I see she does a good amount of business. Another one is a middle man in the buying and selling of rubber. To say can a policeman support a family on his wage is a bit misleading. In most households I know of, everyone who is old enough to work does work.

[gotglue]

To be honest, I think the "corruption" here is quite a good thing in most instances.

You're speeding, you pay 100B and off you go. No sanctimonious lecture, no penalty points as you would get in England, and most western countries. Easy.

Most policemen I know here do work sometimes, and they're on call pretty much 24/7. Salaries vary depending on age and experience but even with the housing, loans etc 16K a month if you take it as an average, is not a whole lot of money to keep a family on. So they cream a bit off traffic fines. Myself I would rather that than it getting sent to some stupid bureaucracy so that they can dream up road safety campaigns and buy more speed cameras.

Of course the higher level stuff, unneccessary violence and setting people up is not so good, but I have no experience of any of that.

There is a penalty point system here, 1 point for each offence, 100 points=no license. Keeping a track of this here would be just overkill, so it's not really followed through.

As for the speed cameras, or rather handheld speed trap / radar guns, which were bought from the UK police, really gets me. On the express ways or motorways you'll find them on the side of the road with a digi stills camera strapped to it. Operated by 1 guy, who then radios ahead ALL the cars believed to be speeding, and bingo, 30 cars in 1 hit, brilliant!.....From what i remember in the UK, these radar guns were a single shot affair. Trap the car, stop the car, explain to the driver, show the readout on the devise, issue the ticket, and good day to you sir. Then rest the gun and so on. This is the reason the UK ditched the system, it just wasn't viable and so they ended up here. NOW, how is it possible to trap so many cars in 1 go? eg. you're doing 90kmh and some one flies past you doing 140, as you both pass through this radar trap. According to the police and their new bit of hi-tech kit, your car was in the camera frame, radar reads 140kmh, YOU were speeding.

[jubby]

Actually sometimes they do chase ya. and or radio ahead.

I was driving through a Police checkpoint sort of thing last week in the Car. two BIB where stopping motorbikes even the ones wearing helmets which is unusual. Just in front of me a rather fat BIB made a signal to a young guy on a motorbike, he slowed down and then made a quick exit down a soi, you should have seen the face of the BIB, he was rather put out and wasn't in any shape to chase anyone. It did make me laugh

[LivinLOS]

Cops starting wage is 7,500b and goes up a lot if they have attended Police academy Starting 11.500b up. They get low cost loans and discounted prices to buy the motorcycles and equipment. also most if not all get low cost housing provided.

All info from a serving police academy cadet that i used to teach.

Also they get to keep 60% of all fines that are levied. This is generally the problem with corruption in the ranks. NOT all cops are corrupt and you have levels of corruption.

I was told that it was 30% of fines..

Perhaps different for different fines.. This was in relation to standard 'no helmet, no license' roadblocks.

[bendejo]

IMO, the reason people become cops in these developing countries is because they can make untold amounts by collecting bribes. It's thr next best thing to having your own business.

They have a spot not far from where I stay where they set up a traffic check every afternoon. They only stop cars when the driver looks like he has some $$ in his pocket, find something wrong and collect the fee.

Unfortunately they make the guys work some times, the nerve! I'd have thought the BiB would hate the redshirts because they got in the way of the cash flow.

[NBD]

To be honest, I think the "corruption" here is quite a good thing in most instances.

You're speeding, you pay 100B and off you go. No sanctimonious lecture, no penalty points as you would get in England, and most western countries. Easy.

Most policemen I know here do work sometimes, and they're on call pretty much 24/7. Salaries vary depending on age and experience but even with the housing, loans etc 16K a month if you take it as an average, is not a whole lot of money to keep a family on. So they cream a bit off traffic fines. Myself I would rather that than it getting sent to some stupid bureaucracy so that they can dream up road safety campaigns and buy more speed cameras.

Of course the higher level stuff, unneccessary violence and setting people up is not so good, but I have no experience of any of that.

There is a penalty point system here, 1 point for each offence, 100 points=no license. Keeping a track of this here would be just overkill, so it's not really followed through.

As for the speed cameras, or rather handheld speed trap / radar guns, which were bought from the UK police, really gets me. On the express ways or motorways you'll find them on the side of the road with a digi stills camera strapped to it. Operated by 1 guy, who then radios ahead ALL the cars believed to be speeding, and bingo, 30 cars in 1 hit, brilliant!.....From what i remember in the UK, these radar guns were a single shot affair. Trap the car, stop the car, explain to the driver, show the readout on the devise, issue the ticket, and good day to you sir. Then rest the gun and so on. This is the reason the UK ditched the system, it just wasn't viable and so they ended up here. NOW, how is it possible to trap so many cars in 1 go? eg. you're doing 90kmh and some one flies past you doing 140, as you both pass through this radar trap. According to the police and their new bit of hi-tech kit, your car was in the camera frame, radar reads 140kmh, YOU were speeding.

The only time I have been in a car that was stopped for speeding in Thailand, it was basically just what the policeman said.

"About 140."

"Ok then"

"One stop service?"

"100"

"Have a nice day"

Hand held radar hasn't really been used in the UK for years, but the Gatso cameras use radar. As you say they can pick up the speed of anything in a given area so are not that accurate, hence why Gatso cameras have lines painted on the road in front of them - the radar triggers the camera but it's the distance travelled, as measured against the lines that is used to confirm the speed you were travelling.

Police in the UK (and most western countries) use hand held laser now, and even this can be inaccurate. I challenged a prosecution by laser gun once, so did a lot of reading up on it. The law is quite vague, as actually all that is needed for a speeding conviction is the policeman's say so, however for a sound prosecution some sort of extra evidence is the norm. The Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) guidelines on the use of laser specify calibration every 14 days I believe, plus training, plus verification by another police officer.

Doubt very much that any of this applies in Thailand in any meaningful sense, but then the consequences of getting caught are much lighter here. When I was doing 30K+ miles a year in the UK it would have been incredibly easy to lose my licence in a week, for offences that wouldn't cost me more than 500 Baht in total here. On balance, a more sensible approach IMO.

As for where the money goes, once it's gone from me I don't really care if the revenue raising is done at a personal level by the policeman or at a national level by the government. They're all just on the make anyway.

[NCFC]

Yesterday morning there was a radio phone-in program where Thais were asked to share their unusual experiences of being stopped by the police. It was very funny.

One woman phoned in and said that the police stopped her because she was driving under the speed limit.

Another said the policeman stopped her for driving while wearing flip flops. As though he could see before stopping her!!

A man phoned-in to say that the cops tried to fine him with the excuse that he didn't act scared of the policeman.

A woman was asked to blow into a breatherlyzer which returned a negative result, and the cop scolded her for having a drunk-like face.

The one I liked best of all though was a motorbike rider who the police wanted to fine because he had a second helmet tied on the back seat but no pillion passenger.

I was laughing so much, I was nearly stopped by the cops myself for not paying attention.

[gotglue]

To be honest, I think the "corruption" here is quite a good thing in most instances.

You're speeding, you pay 100B and off you go. No sanctimonious lecture, no penalty points as you would get in England, and most western countries. Easy.

Most policemen I know here do work sometimes, and they're on call pretty much 24/7. Salaries vary depending on age and experience but even with the housing, loans etc 16K a month if you take it as an average, is not a whole lot of money to keep a family on. So they cream a bit off traffic fines. Myself I would rather that than it getting sent to some stupid bureaucracy so that they can dream up road safety campaigns and buy more speed cameras.

Of course the higher level stuff, unneccessary violence and setting people up is not so good, but I have no experience of any of that.

There is a penalty point system here, 1 point for each offence, 100 points=no license. Keeping a track of this here would be just overkill, so it's not really followed through.

As for the speed cameras, or rather handheld speed trap / radar guns, which were bought from the UK police, really gets me. On the express ways or motorways you'll find them on the side of the road with a digi stills camera strapped to it. Operated by 1 guy, who then radios ahead ALL the cars believed to be speeding, and bingo, 30 cars in 1 hit, brilliant!.....From what i remember in the UK, these radar guns were a single shot affair. Trap the car, stop the car, explain to the driver, show the readout on the devise, issue the ticket, and good day to you sir. Then rest the gun and so on. This is the reason the UK ditched the system, it just wasn't viable and so they ended up here. NOW, how is it possible to trap so many cars in 1 go? eg. you're doing 90kmh and some one flies past you doing 140, as you both pass through this radar trap. According to the police and their new bit of hi-tech kit, your car was in the camera frame, radar reads 140kmh, YOU were speeding.

The only time I have been in a car that was stopped for speeding in Thailand, it was basically just what the policeman said.

"About 140."

"Ok then"

"One stop service?"

"100"

"Have a nice day"

Hand held radar hasn't really been used in the UK for years, but the Gatso cameras use radar. As you say they can pick up the speed of anything in a given area so are not that accurate, hence why Gatso cameras have lines painted on the road in front of them - the radar triggers the camera but it's the distance travelled, as measured against the lines that is used to confirm the speed you were travelling.

Police in the UK (and most western countries) use hand held laser now, and even this can be inaccurate. I challenged a prosecution by laser gun once, so did a lot of reading up on it. The law is quite vague, as actually all that is needed for a speeding conviction is the policeman's say so, however for a sound prosecution some sort of extra evidence is the norm. The Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) guidelines on the use of laser specify calibration every 14 days I believe, plus training, plus verification by another police officer.

Doubt very much that any of this applies in Thailand in any meaningful sense, but then the consequences of getting caught are much lighter here. When I was doing 30K+ miles a year in the UK it would have been incredibly easy to lose my licence in a week, for offences that wouldn't cost me more than 500 Baht in total here. On balance, a more sensible approach IMO.

As for where the money goes, once it's gone from me I don't really care if the revenue raising is done at a personal level by the policeman or at a national level by the government. They're all just on the make anyway.

If you read what I said carefully, I WAS referring to the obsolete handheld radar, not the gatso.....have you not seen them use the old style and obsolete radar gun with a stills camera positioned so half the 'shot' is of the radar display and the other half of the oncoming traffic?

[barky]

Yesterday morning there was a radio phone-in program where Thais were asked to share their unusual experiences of being stopped by the police. It was very funny.

One woman phoned in and said that the police stopped her because she was driving under the speed limit.

Another said the policeman stopped her for driving while wearing flip flops. As though he could see before stopping her!!

A man phoned-in to say that the cops tried to fine him with the excuse that he didn't act scared of the policeman.

A woman was asked to blow into a breatherlyzer which returned a negative result, and the cop scolded her for having a drunk-like face.

The one I liked best of all though was a motorbike rider who the police wanted to fine because he had a second helmet tied on the back seat but no pillion passenger.

I was laughing so much, I was nearly stopped by the cops myself for not paying attention.

This is just so believable, and yes it is funny, but funny sad!

This sums up the Thai cops to a tee. Useless, lazy, indemically corrupt, trouble makers, murderers, mafia, scammers, scoundrels, major organised crime barrons, thugs, common and un-common criminals etc etc .

All corrupt to one extent or another.

But, why? In simplistic terms, it's because society (generally) has total disrgard and disrespect for the law. They know they can get away with ANYYHING...it's just a question of money.

[NBD]

If you read what I said carefully, I WAS referring to the obsolete handheld radar, not the gatso.....have you not seen them use the old style and obsolete radar gun with a stills camera positioned so half the 'shot' is of the radar display and the other half of the oncoming traffic?

I've seen them using what looked like hand held radar, but never seen (or at least paid close enough attention to) anything else they had. I assumed they would just wave it around for fun and fine whoever took their fancy.

[NBD]

Yesterday morning there was a radio phone-in program where Thais were asked to share their unusual experiences of being stopped by the police. It was very funny.

One woman phoned in and said that the police stopped her because she was driving under the speed limit.

Another said the policeman stopped her for driving while wearing flip flops. As though he could see before stopping her!!

A man phoned-in to say that the cops tried to fine him with the excuse that he didn't act scared of the policeman.

A woman was asked to blow into a breatherlyzer which returned a negative result, and the cop scolded her for having a drunk-like face.

The one I liked best of all though was a motorbike rider who the police wanted to fine because he had a second helmet tied on the back seat but no pillion passenger.

Have heard of someone getting fined for driving in flip flops. The mind boggles.

To be fair though, you can get some pretty outrageous bits of policing at the extremes in any country. There was a case in the UK a few years ago where a police helicopter was used to film a woman eating a sandwich while driving then fine her.

I'm sure there's more.

[mahtin]

I've seen them using what looked like hand held radar, but never seen (or at least paid close enough attention to) anything else they had. I assumed they would just wave it around for fun and fine whoever took their fancy.

Probably Mr. Taperedshirt getting a blow dry.

[jubby]

Yesterday morning there was a radio phone-in program where Thais were asked to share their unusual experiences of being stopped by the police. It was very funny.

One woman phoned in and said that the police stopped her because she was driving under the speed limit.

Another said the policeman stopped her for driving while wearing flip flops. As though he could see before stopping her!!

A man phoned-in to say that the cops tried to fine him with the excuse that he didn't act scared of the policeman.

A woman was asked to blow into a breatherlyzer which returned a negative result, and the cop scolded her for having a drunk-like face.

The one I liked best of all though was a motorbike rider who the police wanted to fine because he had a second helmet tied on the back seat but no pillion passenger.

I was laughing so much, I was nearly stopped by the cops myself for not paying attention.

This is just so believable, and yes it is funny, but funny sad!

This sums up the Thai cops to a tee. Useless, lazy, indemically corrupt, trouble makers, murderers, mafia, scammers, scoundrels, major organised crime barrons, thugs, common and un-common criminals etc etc .

All corrupt to one extent or another.

But, why? In simplistic terms, it's because society (generally) has total disrgard and disrespect for the law. They know they can get away with ANYYHING...it's just a question of money.

Why beat about the Bush Barky, why don't you just say what you mean

[Jimi007]

Yesterday morning there was a radio phone-in program where Thais were asked to share their unusual experiences of being stopped by the police. It was very funny.

One woman phoned in and said that the police stopped her because she was driving under the speed limit.

Another said the policeman stopped her for driving while wearing flip flops. As though he could see before stopping her!!

A man phoned-in to say that the cops tried to fine him with the excuse that he didn't act scared of the policeman.

A woman was asked to blow into a breatherlyzer which returned a negative result, and the cop scolded her for having a drunk-like face.

The one I liked best of all though was a motorbike rider who the police wanted to fine because he had a second helmet tied on the back seat but no pillion passenger.

I was laughing so much, I was nearly stopped by the cops myself for not paying attention.

This is just so believable, and yes it is funny, but funny sad!

This sums up the Thai cops to a tee. Useless, lazy, indemically corrupt, trouble makers, murderers, mafia, scammers, scoundrels, major organised crime barrons, thugs, common and un-common criminals etc etc .

All corrupt to one extent or another.

But, why? In simplistic terms, it's because society (generally) has total disrgard and disrespect for the law. They know they can get away with ANYYHING...it's just a question of money.

Why beat about the Bush Barky, why don't you just say what you mean

Especially if you are Thai. It doesn't work out as well for farang, we have to pay more! But I've never really had any problems with the local BiB's. I think they all know me! Farang Key Nok! I've never been fined and only stopped twice in 5 years. I did pay for their services once, to recover a stolen motorbike. The local captain wanted 4,000 Baht for the 10 men that it took to arrest 1 Thai. I said in Thai, too much! Pang! So, he said, 2,000! Okay.... We had to walk down the street from the police station to do the hand shake with 2,000. On the way back he dropped a katrong leaf in the police station parking lot! I didn't say a word! Never a problem since...