Thai Nationality Application

[pattayamick]

I am applying for Thai Nationality, and has been called in to Police Headquarters next week to sing the Royal and Thai natioal anthem next week.

I am scrambling to learn them.

Simple question. Are you allowed to read from a script when singing, or does it have to be by heart?

Edited June 2, 2010 by pattayamick

[ESB7]

8am and 6pm each day....good luck, hope you get it

[samran]

Mick,

for the benefit of the rest of us who have applications in, when did you apply?

[skippybangkok]

Depends on Points. If have enough points, no need to sing ( i was told ).

Not too hard to learn, send me a mail and will mail u the wording in thai and kareoke thai. Assuming your a regular cinema go-er, should know the royal anthem almost already

[TheChiefJustice]

Bring a piece of paper with you and, if you feel the need, ask if you may place it on the table and refer to it if you get stuck. They should be fine with that.

[pattayamick]

Thanks. I will probably be OK. Singing very well in the bathroom, but with a micophone in front of an audience, lets see.

My paperwork has been checked and will be submitted this coming Thursday, at which time I was told to do the singing and common Thai knowledge test. Also told to prepare a Thai name.

I should be ok. Having lived here since 1972. Married to my Thai wife for more than 20 years. 2 children with thai nationality. I speak, read and write rather well. PR for the last 6 years.

[aidenai]

Thanks. I will probably be OK. Singing very well in the bathroom, but with a micophone in front of an audience, lets see.

My paperwork has been checked and will be submitted this coming Thursday, at which time I was told to do the singing and common Thai knowledge test. Also told to prepare a Thai name.

I should be ok. Having lived here since 1972. Married to my Thai wife for more than 20 years. 2 children with thai nationality. I speak, read and write rather well. PR for the last 6 years.

Problems with reading though. Samran asked you a question! You haven't answered yet.

Please don't ask for information here about your interview. Don't complain that it wasn't about singing the National Anthem only. Something is waiting for you................

[pattayamick]

Thanks. I will probably be OK. Singing very well in the bathroom, but with a micophone in front of an audience, lets see.

My paperwork has been checked and will be submitted this coming Thursday, at which time I was told to do the singing and common Thai knowledge test. Also told to prepare a Thai name.

I should be ok. Having lived here since 1972. Married to my Thai wife for more than 20 years. 2 children with thai nationality. I speak, read and write rather well. PR for the last 6 years.

Problems with reading though. Samran asked you a question! You haven't answered yet.

Please don't ask for information here about your interview. Don't complain that it wasn't about singing the National Anthem only. Something is waiting for you................

??????????????

I thought I did answer

My paperwork has been checked and will be submitted this coming Thursday,

I am appying on Thursday

[aidenai]

There's some confusion here, pattayamick.

So, let's rephrase the question.

When did you have your first appointment with officers of the Police Headquarters submitting all your Thai Citizenship application documents?

[pattayamick]

There's some confusion here, pattayamick.

So, let's rephrase the question.

When did you have your first appointment with officers of the Police Headquarters submitting all your Thai Citizenship application documents?

This coming Thursday

[aidenai]

This coming Thursday

Anyways. The initial application consisted in my case of:

- checking the papers and answering the questionnaire

- finger printing

- interview with the Head of the Department

- paying 5,000 THB

next day collecting two letters

- for the Amphur to apply for a Thai name

- for the Amphur to apply for a marriage confirmation

One month later an interview/interrogation with a male and female officer on behalf of Police Headquarters at the Office of the Provincial Administrative Organisation in my province. My wife had to be present too.

Edited June 6, 2010 by aidenai

[phuketrichard]

seems you still dont get it;

When did you START the paperwork to apply for the citizenship. The answer is NOT This coming Thursday I have heard it takes a few months to years

[aidenai]

seems you still dont get it;

When did you START the paperwork to apply for the citizenship. The answer is NOT This coming Thursday I have heard it takes a few months to years

Correct observation, PR.

Edited June 6, 2010 by aidenai

[prakhonchai nick]

Having lived here since 1972. Married to my Thai wife for more than 20 years. 2 children with thai nationality. I speak, read and write rather well. PR for the last 6 years.

I have PR. had it for 20+ years. Apart from not having to renew visa I see no real benefits. Why therefore may I ask are you going the whole hog for citizenship?

[Arkady]

I have done this recently at Police HQ under the new points system that came in in March this year. Now there are 15 points for knowledge of Thai language, compared to 10 before. You get 8 points for being able to speak and understand Thai, 2 points for being able to sing the National and Royal Anthems, 2 points for being able to read Thai and 3 points for being able to write it. Previously there were 5 points for speaking and understanding Thai and another 5 for being able to sing the two anthems. Under the 2008 Nationality Act you are exempted from the requirement to have knowledge of the Thai language, if you are a married to a Thai citizen. They will still assign you a score for your speaking and understanding but the reading, writing and singing tests are optional. In fact they may assume you don't want to do them. So make sure you let them know you want to do the optional tests. The singing is done in front of the boss who also interviews you with your Thai wife, if you have one. He lets you sing from whatever song sheet you want but warns you that you will have to sing without a crib sheet at the Interior Ministry, under the ministry's new (unwritten) rules. If you are fairly confident in your Thai and singing, you should certainly do the full Thai tests. I got the full 15 points which I am sure does no harm, even if it doesn't speed things up for you.

For the speaking and understanding I was not set any special tests. I had had several meetings with the officer handling my application by then and she assigned me points based on those conversations. The reading and writing is quite easy. There is also no set format. They will usually ask you to read aloud some documents they have at hand that will probably be to do with applications for Thai nationality. Likewise the writing will probably be some simple things to do with nationality, the police, special branch etc. Of course, it may be different in each case because it is up the officer. The new general knowledge of Thailand test (10 points) is compulsory for all applicants. It is a multiple choice set format but I believe the questions are changed regularly, so applicants can't pass on the information. Again there will probably be some questions about the process for applying for citizenship, as well as probably about the Royal Family, system of government and general questions about Thailand. If you can't read, you can have the questions read out to you but it is much easier if you can read them for yourself. The Thai is medium level and requires some knowledge of basic formal Thai and rajasap. Hint 1: bone up on the Nationality Act and the Interior Ministry guidelines on applying for Thai citizenship in the original before you go for this test; hint 2 take your time and read all the choices before answering because there is often a false friend that looks right at first glance but isn't. This test is probably the hardest part of the testing at Police HQ and requires the most advanced knowledge of Thai in my opinion, even though it is not specifically part of the Thai language requirement but that is not much different than what is required by Western countries these days. There is another 5 points for personality which I believe is assigned by the boss based on your interview. They will tell your points in the tests. I didn't ask what I got for personality but things seemed to go well. Most of the other points you can work out for yourself, if you read the guidelines as they are pretty clear based on length of PR, age, education level and salary. I got just under 90. Good luck.

For those interested in this topic there is a lot more information in this thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Story-Thai-C...html&st=325

Edited June 6, 2010 by Arkady

[KhunHay]

Depends on Points. If have enough points, no need to sing ( i was told ).

Not too hard to learn, send me a mail and will mail u the wording in thai and kareoke thai. Assuming your a regular cinema go-er, should know the royal anthem almost already

Bro, can PM your trick to learn the anthem also? Thk u vy much.

[samran]

There's some confusion here, pattayamick.

So, let's rephrase the question.

When did you have your first appointment with officers of the Police Headquarters submitting all your Thai Citizenship application documents?

This coming Thursday

even easier, when did you first apply for Thai nationality? For most, there is a wait of a couple of years before they get a chance to do the interview where you sing the national anthem.

[Arkady]

Having lived here since 1972. Married to my Thai wife for more than 20 years. 2 children with thai nationality. I speak, read and write rather well. PR for the last 6 years.

I have PR. had it for 20+ years. Apart from not having to renew visa I see no real benefits. Why therefore may I ask are you going the whole hog for citizenship?

People always like to ask this question in the same way that people who were happy with their NON-IMM visas used to ask why I was bothering to apply for PR way back when. Many of the same people later changed their minds and tried to get PR more recently but now can't get it. If you have had PR for 20 years, you already know very well what the difference is and have no real need to ask. It is a personal matter. Some people are happy with PR and others would like to be citizens of their adopted home. Among other things naturalized citizens can own land, work without a work permit, leave the country without a re-entry endorsement, get a mortgage, vote after 5 years and do many things like opening accounts or buying cars with just an ID and tabian baan for which PR holders need copious pages of copies of passport, WP, alien book, resident book, passport and tabien baan, not to mention of course going into national parks and museums at the Thai rate and just the pure enjoyment of seeing other Thais react to your Thainess. The price for all this at still only 5,000 baht (but going up to 10,000 soon) is a bargain. Most things for foreigners get tougher e.g. the process for PR that got harder and harder till it is now effectively frozen. So it is best to apply for whatever status you want and are qualified for sooner rather than later. If you are not interested, never mind.

Edited June 6, 2010 by Arkady

[Arkady]

There's some confusion here, pattayamick.

So, let's rephrase the question.

When did you have your first appointment with officers of the Police Headquarters submitting all your Thai Citizenship application documents?

This coming Thursday

even easier, when did you first apply for Thai nationality? For most, there is a wait of a couple of years before they get a chance to do the interview where you sing the national anthem.

Samran, males get to sing the anthems as part of their knowledge of Thai language test at Police HQ that is now optional if they have Thai wives. If the application documents are all in order, Bangkok based applicants may be invited for this test within a week of applying. The singing you are thinking of is the second test in front of the citizenship committee at the Interior Ministry which these days will probably take place one to two years after the tests at Police HQ.

[prakhonchai nick]

Having lived here since 1972. Married to my Thai wife for more than 20 years. 2 children with thai nationality. I speak, read and write rather well. PR for the last 6 years.

I have PR. had it for 20+ years. Apart from not having to renew visa I see no real benefits. Why therefore may I ask are you going the whole hog for citizenship?

People always like to ask this question in the same way that people who were happy with their NON-IMM visas used to ask why I was bothering to apply for PR way back when. Many of the same people later changed their minds and tried to get PR more recently but now can't get it. If you have had PR for 20 years, you already know very well what the difference is and have no real need to ask. It is a personal matter. Some people are happy with PR and others would like to be citizens of their adopted home. Among other things naturalized citizens can own land, work without a work permit, leave the country without a re-entry endorsement, get a mortgage, vote after 5 years and do many things like opening accounts or buying cars with just an ID and tabian baan for which PR holders need copious pages of copies of passport, WP, alien book, resident book, passport and tabien baan, not to mention of course going into national parks and museums at the Thai rate and just the pure enjoyment of seeing other Thais react to your Thainess. The price for all this at still only 5,000 baht (but going up to 10,000 soon) is a bargain. Most things for foreigners get tougher e.g. the process for PR that got harder and harder till it is now effectively frozen. So it is best to apply for whatever status you want and are qualified for sooner rather than later. If you are not interested, never mind.

I suppose if you want/need to do all the things that citizenship makes easier then it makes sense (especially for just another 5000bt). I am quite content however with just not having to make visa runs, or renewing the visa every year. I don't want to work, certainly do not want the vote (not even for the extra 500bt!) and as far as entry to national parks etc is concerned, I never have a problem when producing my PR and Alien reg book.

Good luck to all those applying.

[stingray]

Having lived here since 1972. Married to my Thai wife for more than 20 years. 2 children with thai nationality. I speak, read and write rather well. PR for the last 6 years.

I have PR. had it for 20+ years. Apart from not having to renew visa I see no real benefits. Why therefore may I ask are you going the whole hog for citizenship?

People always like to ask this question in the same way that people who were happy with their NON-IMM visas used to ask why I was bothering to apply for PR way back when. Many of the same people later changed their minds and tried to get PR more recently but now can't get it. If you have had PR for 20 years, you already know very well what the difference is and have no real need to ask. It is a personal matter. Some people are happy with PR and others would like to be citizens of their adopted home. Among other things naturalized citizens can own land, work without a work permit, leave the country without a re-entry endorsement, get a mortgage, vote after 5 years and do many things like opening accounts or buying cars with just an ID and tabian baan for which PR holders need copious pages of copies of passport, WP, alien book, resident book, passport and tabien baan, not to mention of course going into national parks and museums at the Thai rate and just the pure enjoyment of seeing other Thais react to your Thainess. The price for all this at still only 5,000 baht (but going up to 10,000 soon) is a bargain. Most things for foreigners get tougher e.g. the process for PR that got harder and harder till it is now effectively frozen. So it is best to apply for whatever status you want and are qualified for sooner rather than later. If you are not interested, never mind.

So far as i know you can't have 2 citizenship (from the Thaiside). So why someone would "trade" a Westerncitizenship to a Thai? you would be locked up in this country forever. I mean it's very hard or almost impossible for Thais to get a US Visa, for example. But with a European Citizenship, the world is free and you can go anywhere, you want.

[DickFarang]

Nobody mentions it here, but I guess that (at least in priciple) you will have to renounce (not “revoke” as a Bangkok-based-English-language-newspaper-I-cannot-name-here used to write several times in an article “Thaksin won’t revoke Thai nationality”) your original nationality when you get Thai citizenship.

[DickFarang]

Sorry, Stingray, I missed your post but I share your opinion.

Edited June 6, 2010 by DickFarang

[gemini81]

It will take you years, for all of the cases I know of. Most were happy with PR. Even at that, only advantage is no check in's to immigration.

Sure you wanna follow through on that? I mean, in a unstable place like this, your current home is always an escape route! Think aobut that...

[bow]

Nobody mentions it here, but I guess that (at least in priciple) you will have to renounce (not "revoke" as a Bangkok-based-English-language-newspaper-I-cannot-name-here used to write several times in an article "Thaksin won't revoke Thai nationality") your original nationality when you get Thai citizenship.

I know people that have two passports, one Thai and one from a farang country.

It seems unlikely that you have to "renounce" your original nationality here in Thailand.

Their might be problems in the other end though. For example, I don't know if the US allow you to also be a citizen in another country.

[Mario2008]

With people having 2 different nationalities, you have to make the distinction between having 2 nationalities by way of law and having 2 nationalities because you chose to get an extra nationality. A lot of countries accept having 2 nationalities by way of law, but want you to renounce your other nationality if you want chose to become a citizen of their country.

Thailand doesn't seem to matter the situation where you have two nationalities by way of law. But seems to want you to decline your old nationality if you want to become a Thai citizen. The law is not clear on this point, but it seems they now want you to sign a statement that you intend to renounce your old nationlity when applying for Thai nationality.

The US has no problem with having dual nationality.

edit:

See http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Story-Thai-C...27#entry3643827

abut renouncing your old nationality.

[icefall]

P' Mick, if you can squeeze out a few tears during the singing test you may not even need to finish!

[asiawatcher]

Would suggest PR is sufficient especially if you are renouncing your birth names from your parents. I would never do that out of simple respect. And as already pointed out you will limit freedom of travel anywhere with a Thai Passport. Can't really see any real advantage of going past PR. Tum Jai Khun. Good luck anyway.

[kimamey]

With people having 2 different nationalities, you have to make the distinction between having 2 nationalities by way of law and having 2 nationalities because you chose to get an extra nationality. A lot of countries accept having 2 nationalities by way of law, but want you to renounce your other nationality if you want chose to become a citizen of their country.

Thailand doesn't seem to matter the situation where you have two nationalities by way of law. But seems to want you to decline your old nationality if you want to become a Thai citizen. The law is not clear on this point, but it seems they now want you to sign a statement that you intend to renounce your old nationlity when applying for Thai nationality.

The US has no problem with having dual nationality.

edit:

See http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Story-Thai-C...27#entry3643827

abut renouncing your old nationality.

I'm a new visitor to Thailand since meeting my girlfriend so I'm no expert particularly with regards to longer term issues like this but from what I've read the UK and probably the EU as well recognise dual citizenship. I would not like to give that up. I don't know how difficult it is for a Thai to get a visa to other countries apart from my own experience of my gf getting a visitor visa for the UK which wouldn't allow her entry to the EU as a whole. I've always been made very welcome when I've been with my gf in Bangkok where they're used to farangs or out in the country in Isaan but I don't know if this would be the same if I wasn't with a Thai (I was stopped by the police 3 times in 2 days but never fined and made very welcome). I think that after living in the country for some time it would feel good to be treated in a way that reflects your commitment as a resident of Thailand.

Even though I've only visited twice I do intend that I will move there to be with my gf at some stage. One visit roughly every 6 months is no way to carry on a relationship although partners of military personnel in some countries such as my own have similar problems albeit with longer than 2 weeks together between tours of duty. I feel that it's the administration of the country that makes you feel unwelcome rather than the people themselves. I feel the restriction on owning land is the one thing I would most wish to see changed as it's the most basic need when living somewhere if you don't want to be paying rent but then I'm a homeowner in the UK so that may be the reason.

Anyway good luck to you especially with the singing. I know the UK national anthem (not all the verses) but I never sing so even that would be difficult for me and I suspect many people born here wouldn't know the words. Many can't get our flag up the right way and many don't know there is a right way.

This has just made me think of something which could be a new thread. Why do Thais not think the Union flag or Union Jack is the flag of England not the United Kingdom or Great Britain. I've even seen this mistake on a poster in a restaurant. Mind you I couldn't explain the concept of the United Kingdom anyway.

[aidenai]

Our board is currently changing to VBulletin 4.0.

All threads and quotes are getting <deleted> up......