Why Is Everything Opening Up?

[Tejas]

you seem to be in a majority of one,

Right...........majority of one indeed...........don't see how any person could possibly believe "everything is opening up" unless that means lines to bankruptcy and jail for corruption.

My guess is that a disgruntled real estate agent is acting trollish by introducing this thread (trollish........is that a word?):

[Zstarx]

you seem to be in a majority of one,

Right...........majority of one indeed...........don't see how any person could possibly believe "everything is opening up" unless that means lines to bankruptcy and jail for corruption.

My guess is that a disgruntled real estate agent is acting trollish by introducing this thread (trollish........is that a word?):

Agree totally

[Penkoprod]

^From 97 to 2007 Tourism to Thailand doubled, walking street only came about in the very late 90's, you talk as if Pattaya has always had huge amounts of tourism, lot of short term memories out there!

What i AM talking about is empty streets in low season (Walking or otherwise!!!) not being reserved just for this recession period of the late 2000's

The 90's were my "heyday" in Thailand, when i went multiple times a year. Because of circumstances most if not all of those years were ones i had to make in the July/August period. Each and every year at that time was the same comparativly low levels of people, and slow business. Its going to be slow again THIS year too, perhaps. But, like i said in my post (maybe you should read it again?) you will see i said that the business owners werent afraid of the low season during that timespan, as business was more or less guaranteed to pick up during high season to a level where it made for sustainability year round. Whats frightening business owners now is the lack of a big enough, or long enough high season to compensate.

This was bourne out in the other trips i made at other times of the year(s). Feb/Nov-Dec and even April times the places were heaving....just like other posters are saying, too.

Penkoprod

[LennyW]

^From 97 to 2007 Tourism to Thailand doubled, walking street only came about in the very late 90's, you talk as if Pattaya has always had huge amounts of tourism, lot of short term memories out there!

What i AM talking about is empty streets in low season (Walking or otherwise!!!) not being reserved just for this recession period of the late 2000's

The 90's were my "heyday" in Thailand, when i went multiple times a year. Because of circumstances most if not all of those years were ones i had to make in the July/August period. Each and every year at that time was the same comparativly low levels of people, and slow business. Its going to be slow again THIS year too, perhaps. But, like i said in my post (maybe you should read it again?) you will see i said that the business owners werent afraid of the low season during that timespan, as business was more or less guaranteed to pick up during high season to a level where it made for sustainability year round. Whats frightening business owners now is the lack of a big enough, or long enough high season to compensate.

This was bourne out in the other trips i made at other times of the year(s). Feb/Nov-Dec and even April times the places were heaving....just like other posters are saying, too.

Penkoprod

I wonder if...... all the Bars, Resturants, Nightclubs, 7/11's, Family Marts, Shopping centres, Shops, Attractions, Housing estates, etc. etc. that have opened up East of second road, North of dolphin roundabout and South of south Pattaya, since the mid 90's were to shut right now, how busy would the Beach road, Soi 6,7,8, Walking street and the other usual yardsticks that people seem to use, just how busy do you think they would be?

People seem to forget that the expansion of this city since the mid 90's has been phenomenal to say the least, i remember when 3rd road was completed, we used to use it as a quick way to get back to north pattaya from walking street as it was completely empty!!

In years to come customers in the Soi 6,7,8, areas etc. will continue to decrease because the same is on offer in the likes of Soi Bukhaow, but in 10 years time you will get the same complainers on here saying that Soi Bukhaow is "finished" "going downhill" etc. etc. Soi 6,7,8 etc will be distant memories for some, and never be known by newcomers who will only quote Soi Bukhaow as their "experience", and, as all that land gets turned into Hotels and Condos, 10 years thereafter the same will happen to Soi Bukhaow as life and the city progress!!

So just think - how crowded your favourite haunts between beach and second roads would be right now if we turned the clock back 15 years on development, but the current ammount of people were still here, i am thinking very crowded, even in what is termed to be the low season!!

[JSixpack]

you seem to be in a majority of one,

Right...........majority of one indeed...........don't see how any person could possibly believe "everything is opening up" unless that means lines to bankruptcy and jail for corruption.

My guess is that a disgruntled real estate agent is acting trollish by introducing this thread (trollish........is that a word?):

If so very many posters in another thread can believe EVERYTHING is closing down on the basis one obscure Irish pub, poorly managed in a bad location, and one restaurant, Tip, I can certainly believe that EVERYTHING is opening up (see my original post). Hyperbole is the coin of this realm.

Now, businesses close down in PTY even in the best of times. True, some businesses aren't doing so well at present, but others are doing quite well (a fact that, for some reason, we desperately want to ignore around here); and, overall, more businesses are opening than closing. Sorry!

Cough. I'm hardly into real estate. Me, I'd say never speculate in Thai real estate unless you're well-heeled and highly sophisticated--hardly my status. But if you're planning and have the means to reside long-term in a property, then buying--anytime--will surely beat renting.

Just thought I'd throw that in gem as a freebie. But see the real estate forum, which I rarely frequent, for relevant threads. Actually, you don't have to be a real estate agent to be optimistic about Pattaya. Reports of its death have been greatly exaggerated.

[Penkoprod]

What i AM talking about is empty streets in low season (Walking or otherwise!!!) not being reserved just for this recession period of the late 2000's

The 90's were my "heyday" in Thailand, when i went multiple times a year. Because of circumstances most if not all of those years were ones i had to make in the July/August period. Each and every year at that time was the same comparativly low levels of people, and slow business. Its going to be slow again THIS year too, perhaps. But, like i said in my post (maybe you should read it again?) you will see i said that the business owners werent afraid of the low season during that timespan, as business was more or less guaranteed to pick up during high season to a level where it made for sustainability year round. Whats frightening business owners now is the lack of a big enough, or long enough high season to compensate.

This was bourne out in the other trips i made at other times of the year(s). Feb/Nov-Dec and even April times the places were heaving....just like other posters are saying, too.

Penkoprod

I wonder if...... all the Bars, Resturants, Nightclubs, 7/11's, Family Marts, Shopping centres, Shops, Attractions, Housing estates, etc. etc. that have opened up East of second road, North of dolphin roundabout and South of south Pattaya, since the mid 90's were to shut right now, how busy would the Beach road, Soi 6,7,8, Walking street and the other usual yardsticks that people seem to use, just how busy do you think they would be?

People seem to forget that the expansion of this city since the mid 90's has been phenomenal to say the least, i remember when 3rd road was completed, we used to use it as a quick way to get back to north pattaya from walking street as it was completely empty!!

In years to come customers in the Soi 6,7,8, areas etc. will continue to decrease because the same is on offer in the likes of Soi Bukhaow, but in 10 years time you will get the same complainers on here saying that Soi Bukhaow is "finished" "going downhill" etc. etc. Soi 6,7,8 etc will be distant memories for some, and never be known by newcomers who will only quote Soi Bukhaow as their "experience", and, as all that land gets turned into Hotels and Condos, 10 years thereafter the same will happen to Soi Bukhaow as life and the city progress!!

So just think - how crowded your favourite haunts between beach and second roads would be right now if we turned the clock back 15 years on development, but the current ammount of people were still here, i am thinking very crowded, even in what is termed to be the low season!!

And again. not what i am saying (But its part of a percieved "problem")

What i'm saying is that business owners didnt worry as much about a low season, because they added it into the equation, and that high season would be along to redress the balance as it were. The business owners aren't so sure these days

And thats ALL i'm saying

It doesnt matter if its fifty owners, or five thousand relying on a high season, it still boils down to one thing. That is a p*ss poor few years high season wise for all.

Penkoprod

[CGW]

^From 97 to 2007 Tourism to Thailand doubled, walking street only came about in the very late 90's, you talk as if Pattaya has always had huge amounts of tourism, lot of short term memories out there!

What i AM talking about is empty streets in low season (Walking or otherwise!!!) not being reserved just for this recession period of the late 2000's

The 90's were my "heyday" in Thailand, when i went multiple times a year. Because of circumstances most if not all of those years were ones i had to make in the July/August period. Each and every year at that time was the same comparativly low levels of people, and slow business. Its going to be slow again THIS year too, perhaps. But, like i said in my post (maybe you should read it again?) you will see i said that the business owners werent afraid of the low season during that timespan, as business was more or less guaranteed to pick up during high season to a level where it made for sustainability year round. Whats frightening business owners now is the lack of a big enough, or long enough high season to compensate.

This was bourne out in the other trips i made at other times of the year(s). Feb/Nov-Dec and even April times the places were heaving....just like other posters are saying, too.

Penkoprod

I wonder if...... all the Bars, Resturants, Nightclubs, 7/11's, Family Marts, Shopping centres, Shops, Attractions, Housing estates, etc. etc. that have opened up East of second road, North of dolphin roundabout and South of south Pattaya, since the mid 90's were to shut right now, how busy would the Beach road, Soi 6,7,8, Walking street and the other usual yardsticks that people seem to use, just how busy do you think they would be?

People seem to forget that the expansion of this city since the mid 90's has been phenomenal to say the least, i remember when 3rd road was completed, we used to use it as a quick way to get back to north pattaya from walking street as it was completely empty!!

In years to come customers in the Soi 6,7,8, areas etc. will continue to decrease because the same is on offer in the likes of Soi Bukhaow, but in 10 years time you will get the same complainers on here saying that Soi Bukhaow is "finished" "going downhill" etc. etc. Soi 6,7,8 etc will be distant memories for some, and never be known by newcomers who will only quote Soi Bukhaow as their "experience", and, as all that land gets turned into Hotels and Condos, 10 years thereafter the same will happen to Soi Bukhaow as life and the city progress!!

So just think - how crowded your favourite haunts between beach and second roads would be right now if we turned the clock back 15 years on development, but the current ammount of people were still here, i am thinking very crowded, even in what is termed to be the low season!!

Good post, sums it up as I see it.......

Edited June 9, 2010 by CGW

[thaiman]

PTY is going to continue to grow one way or the other: there's no doubt about that. It's amusing that people refuse to believe it.

Couldn't agree more. The moment started awhile back and it will only grow larger and larger. It's inevitable.

[safeandsound]

There's nothing worse then some yapping on about how good walking street used to be back when...., how the bg's were more friendly back when...., how you used to get a cold towel offered in every bar back when....., don't open a business, don't invest in Thailand what you cant walk away from... these cretins bore me to tears almost to the point of mental lock down until they move away from my personal space. They are as about as interesting as watching paint dry....times change, things move on, it's called progress and if you don't like it then fine but don't ram it down everyone's throat cos i for one am sick to death of it.

Pattaya is growing and growing fast the dimwits who cant see it are just that dimwits.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Rimmer
Unnecessary profanity edited by RIMMER

[Tejas]

PTY is going to continue to grow one way or the other: there's no doubt about that. It's amusing that people refuse to believe it.

Couldn't agree more. The moment started awhile back and it will only grow larger and larger. It's inevitable.

Will continue to grow? No doubt............more concrete coffins destined to become vacant coffins will continue to go up

More malls destined to become vacant malls will go up

More bars destined to go under will go up

More restaurants destined to go under will go up

And more concrete coffins, malls, bars and restaurants that are here now will go under.

The fact is that it has already grown beyond its best years (70s and 80s).

And that growth has not been good. It is unsustainable, and it has already ruined the place.

But some people have no idea how good it used to be, so they have no reference point from which to assess whether it is better or worse now.

Others are locked into a growth mentality (all growth is good).

Others are simply wanting to make a buck off of a real estate Titanic.

[craigt3365]

I think you could say that about many places around the world. South of Spain, Las Vegas, Costa Rica, Dubai, Samui, Bali, etc. Sad, but true....

Just found this link...interesting...

http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/investment-analysis/House-price-falls-during-year-to-end-Q1-2009-the-worst-ever

Edited June 10, 2010 by craigt3365

[Zstarx]

There's nothing worse then some cnt yapping on about how good walking street used to be back when...., how the bg's were more friendly back when...., how you used to get a cold towel offered in every bar back when....., don't open a business, don't invest in Thailand what you cant walk away from...<deleted> these cretins bore me to tears almost to the point of mental lock down until they move away from my personal space. They are as about as interesting as watching paint dry....times change, things move on, it's called progress and if you don't like it then fine but don't ram it down everyone's throat cos i for one am sick to death of it.

Pattaya is growing and growing fast the dimwits who cant see it are just that dimwits.

I have to admire your optimism, building new a new condo that's 90% empty, now that's growth

[suiging]

I've been in and out since mid-eighties. I have bought and built in the area and have watched momentous changes almost every year.

Mid-eighties still dusty streets with the hippy brigade still in evidence and a lot of left over Asia hands from " Nam " ( well they all claimed to be ) and short term trippers from HK, Singapore and the like. In general a nice time, with locals and " workers" less hardened to the experience and everyone having a good time.

Early nineties brought ( sadly from my own country ) the hooligan brigade. Loud bare chested and violent. Locals first offended, and then cynical. Not a good time with the building boom spurred on by crooks from Europe as well as locals, with the infra-structure not addressed to keep pace with the rapid, unfounded expansion. Hence floods, droughts and a dumbing down of society which to my simple mind, was not pleasant. The crash came as a typhoon that destroyed the bubble and left unfinished lumps of concrete on almost every corner, but did not wash away all the dross.

Early 2000's optimism again. Talk of casinos, horse racing, and the arrival of Russian and Asian tourists by the bucketful. The crash, (this time self-generated) in the property market has thinned out the hoardes of Estate Agents that thronged every street, but surprisingly there is still a causious optimism for the future, if you talk to the sensible " older " Thai Pattaya families, who can see at least the start of proper development from City Hall and a realisation that when ( not if ) attitudes change about gambling, Pattaya is best placed to build a Thai " Macao " in the future.

Major Hotel chains and Thai business people do not build modern hotels and large shopping complexes if they feel " long term " the place is going to fail. Just like any stock exchange the small time investor always catches a cold. The bar owner ( singular ) will come and go, never really making any form of impact. What is telling is the slow " clearing " of the streets surrounding what will become the bar area ( the only major bar area ) in the future. Someone somewhere with a bigger picture view and more money than you or I, has a positive view on the future. Remember the hotels and shopping areas are not being built with Government hand-outs, they are being built with somebodies cash. The cynic will reply " Blah blah blah, rose tinted glasses no hope etc etc ". However, not all Thai businessmen are fools, far from it, and some of the smartest are quietly buying land and planning for a better future for the area. I for one hope they are right...............I like it here.

[Tejas]

I've been in and out since mid-eighties. I have bought and built in the area and have watched momentous changes almost every year.

Mid-eighties still dusty streets with the hippy brigade still in evidence and a lot of left over Asia hands from " Nam " ( well they all claimed to be ) and short term trippers from HK, Singapore and the like. In general a nice time, with locals and " workers" less hardened to the experience and everyone having a good time.

Early nineties brought ( sadly from my own country ) the hooligan brigade. Loud bare chested and violent. Locals first offended, and then cynical. Not a good time with the building boom spurred on by crooks from Europe as well as locals, with the infra-structure not addressed to keep pace with the rapid, unfounded expansion. Hence floods, droughts and a dumbing down of society which to my simple mind, was not pleasant. The crash came as a typhoon that destroyed the bubble and left unfinished lumps of concrete on almost every corner, but did not wash away all the dross.

Early 2000's optimism again. Talk of casinos, horse racing, and the arrival of Russian and Asian tourists by the bucketful. The crash, (this time self-generated) in the property market has thinned out the hoardes of Estate Agents that thronged every street, but surprisingly there is still a causious optimism for the future, if you talk to the sensible " older " Thai Pattaya families, who can see at least the start of proper development from City Hall and a realisation that when ( not if ) attitudes change about gambling, Pattaya is best placed to build a Thai " Macao " in the future.

Major Hotel chains and Thai business people do not build modern hotels and large shopping complexes if they feel " long term " the place is going to fail. Just like any stock exchange the small time investor always catches a cold. The bar owner ( singular ) will come and go, never really making any form of impact. What is telling is the slow " clearing " of the streets surrounding what will become the bar area ( the only major bar area ) in the future. Someone somewhere with a bigger picture view and more money than you or I, has a positive view on the future. Remember the hotels and shopping areas are not being built with Government hand-outs, they are being built with somebodies cash. The cynic will reply " Blah blah blah, rose tinted glasses no hope etc etc ". However, not all Thai businessmen are fools, far from it, and some of the smartest are quietly buying land and planning for a better future for the area. I for one hope they are right...............I like it here.

Actually, that was a pretty good analysis/overview of what happened. I do not, however, remember "hippie brigades" in Pattaya in the mid-80s. I do remember far more Americans.......but they did not seem like hippies to me.

You are certainly right about rich people having a vision about Pattaya's future........but rich people often make mistakes, just like the rest of us (a certain wanted terrorist living abroad).

Corporations that once seemed on top of the world make mistakes (e.g. GM)

Countries make mistakes (e.g., Greece).

The problem now is not just Thailand..........it is the global economy. And that is going downhill fast because the world we have created is grossly unsustainable...........for three reasons:

1) we did not act soon enough and with a sense of urgency to curb population growth (too many people are putting too much stress on the life systems of the planet with more to come)

2) we did nothing to move the economy away from dependency on fossil fuels (this is leading to climate change and eventually to social chaos on a scale we have never witnessed)

3) we promoted the globalization of the economy (something that has clearly failed).

The optimism on the part of the so-called "insiders or powerful people or rich" assumes everything will turn around and people will start spending big money again.

I would not bet on it............sure, there will be a turnaround, but that will be followed by an even deeper economic downturn if we do not address the three challenges listed above.

Maybe I am wrong.

[suiging]

You are right " Backpackers" better term than Hippys.

[suiging]

I've been in and out since mid-eighties. I have bought and built in the area and have watched momentous changes almost every year.

Mid-eighties still dusty streets with the hippy brigade still in evidence and a lot of left over Asia hands from " Nam " ( well they all claimed to be ) and short term trippers from HK, Singapore and the like. In general a nice time, with locals and " workers" less hardened to the experience and everyone having a good time.

Early nineties brought ( sadly from my own country ) the hooligan brigade. Loud bare chested and violent. Locals first offended, and then cynical. Not a good time with the building boom spurred on by crooks from Europe as well as locals, with the infra-structure not addressed to keep pace with the rapid, unfounded expansion. Hence floods, droughts and a dumbing down of society which to my simple mind, was not pleasant. The crash came as a typhoon that destroyed the bubble and left unfinished lumps of concrete on almost every corner, but did not wash away all the dross.

Early 2000's optimism again. Talk of casinos, horse racing, and the arrival of Russian and Asian tourists by the bucketful. The crash, (this time self-generated) in the property market has thinned out the hoardes of Estate Agents that thronged every street, but surprisingly there is still a causious optimism for the future, if you talk to the sensible " older " Thai Pattaya families, who can see at least the start of proper development from City Hall and a realisation that when ( not if ) attitudes change about gambling, Pattaya is best placed to build a Thai " Macao " in the future.

Major Hotel chains and Thai business people do not build modern hotels and large shopping complexes if they feel " long term " the place is going to fail. Just like any stock exchange the small time investor always catches a cold. The bar owner ( singular ) will come and go, never really making any form of impact. What is telling is the slow " clearing " of the streets surrounding what will become the bar area ( the only major bar area ) in the future. Someone somewhere with a bigger picture view and more money than you or I, has a positive view on the future. Remember the hotels and shopping areas are not being built with Government hand-outs, they are being built with somebodies cash. The cynic will reply " Blah blah blah, rose tinted glasses no hope etc etc ". However, not all Thai businessmen are fools, far from it, and some of the smartest are quietly buying land and planning for a better future for the area. I for one hope they are right...............I like it here.

Actually, that was a pretty good analysis/overview of what happened. I do not, however, remember "hippie brigades" in Pattaya in the mid-80s. I do remember far more Americans.......but they did not seem like hippies to me.

You are certainly right about rich people having a vision about Pattaya's future........but rich people often make mistakes, just like the rest of us (a certain wanted terrorist living abroad).

Corporations that once seemed on top of the world make mistakes (e.g. GM)

Countries make mistakes (e.g., Greece).

The problem now is not just Thailand..........it is the global economy. And that is going downhill fast because the world we have created is grossly unsustainable...........for three reasons:

1) we did not act soon enough and with a sense of urgency to curb population growth (too many people are putting too much stress on the life systems of the planet with more to come)

2) we did nothing to move the economy away from dependency on fossil fuels (this is leading to climate change and eventually to social chaos on a scale we have never witnessed)

3) we promoted the globalization of the economy (something that has clearly failed).

The optimism on the part of the so-called "insiders or powerful people or rich" assumes everything will turn around and people will start spending big money again.

I would not bet on it............sure, there will be a turnaround, but that will be followed by an even deeper economic downturn if we do not address the three challenges listed above.

Maybe I am wrong.

On the world economy, you are almost certainly right.

However, if Nero really fiddled as Rome burned to the ground, you can be sure there will be an Asian in a casino gambling away as this " new world " collapses around him.

I think this is the hardly hidden, " Insider " knowledge, the wealthy Thais claim to have as their own. The world can be in a dreadful state ( as it is now ) but Macau is booming and again is tipped very shortly, to take over from the entire USA in terms of gambling revenue. The Thai's are as fanatical as the Chinese when it comes to this issue. Build the casinos and watch locals throw away their last Satang. Add to this the rest of Asia flying in for the " other " attractions as well as the tables, and the Hoteliers and the like could still be right.

[raro]

There's nothing worse then some yapping on about how good walking street used to be back when...., how the bg's were more friendly back when...., how you used to get a cold towel offered in every bar back when....., don't open a business, don't invest in Thailand what you cant walk away from... these cretins bore me to tears almost to the point of mental lock down until they move away from my personal space. They are as about as interesting as watching paint dry....times change, things move on, it's called progress and if you don't like it then fine but don't ram it down everyone's throat cos i for one am sick to death of it.

Pattaya is growing and growing fast the dimwits who cant see it are just that dimwits.

...touché!

[Tejas]

OK...........

Traffic congestion is growing

Air pollution is growing

The number of "happy with Pattaya-Jomtien farangs" jumping off buildings is growing

The number of businesses closing is growing

The number of crimes is growing

The number of real estate companies closing down is growing

The number of vacant concrete condos is growing

The level of stress is growing

The amount of poor service is growing

The rip offs and scams are growing

Xenophobia in Pattaya is growing

[Ulysses G.]

OK...........

Traffic congestion is growing

Air pollution is growing

The number of "happy with Pattaya-Jomtien farangs" jumping off buildings is growing

The number of businesses closing is growing

The number of crimes is growing

The number of real estate companies closing down is growing

The number of vacant concrete condos is growing

The level of stress is growing

The amount of poor service is growing

The rip offs and scams are growing

Xenophobia in Pattaya is growing

Some folks just love being miserable.

[Ulysses G.]

But some people have no idea how good it used to be, so they have no reference point from which to assess whether it is better or worse now.

I wasn't here in 1880, but Pattaya is certainly cleaner and less seedy than it was 20 years ago and there is much more to do.

[Heng]

Yeah, it's all going downhill. The jungle is reclaiming most of the dark side, Pratamnak, Wongamat, etc. Soon we'll have to go to Sriracha to buy milk and meat.

[Tejas]

To Ulysses G: I disagree............IMHO, Pattaya today reminds me of a freak show parade (much worse than 20 years ago).

I think "the neighborhood has gone downhill."

Edited June 10, 2010 by Tejas

[Ulysses G.]

Glitterman is not really that bad and his sexual orientation is his own business.

[jori]

Your right places are opening up,and closing down ...same-same place (places really) opening and closing down ,just like a merry go round.

Open one week ,gone the next,..opens up as another business,that closes down. Went looking for a restaurant I had a meal in 'bout 10 days ago ,gone, as though it never existed

[suiging]

Your right places are opening up,and closing down ...same-same place (places really) opening and closing down ,just like a merry go round.

Open one week ,gone the next,..opens up as another business,that closes down. Went looking for a restaurant I had a meal in 'bout 10 days ago ,gone, as though it never existed

You should have tipped.........................

[NALAK]

There's nothing worse then some yapping on about how good walking street used to be back when...., how the bg's were more friendly back when...., how you used to get a cold towel offered in every bar back when....., don't open a business, don't invest in Thailand what you cant walk away from... these cretins bore me to tears almost to the point of mental lock down until they move away from my personal space. They are as about as interesting as watching paint dry....times change, things move on, it's called progress and if you don't like it then fine but don't ram it down everyone's throat cos i for one am sick to death of it.

Pattaya is growing and growing fast the dimwits who cant see it are just that dimwits.

so everybody who has an opinion differnt to you are dimwits.

[jori]

Let's do a survey on how many of this topic's posters live in Pattaya.

I do ,the Klang ,but pray God, Buddha or anyone else that is "up there" make this my last few months here,just complete my house purchase in Spain ASAP

Pattaya resembles Dead Mans Gulch on a wet sunday afternoon,spot the white man is now the order of the day.

Edited June 11, 2010 by jori

[thaibeachlovers]

tuk com, mike mall, friendship, tesco certainly are not booming, central is busy but when i walk around poeple are just window shopping. bars are not doing well and in my opinion do not deserve to do well. i go out a lot but most bars dont have a clue how to make people feel welcome, or give a reasonable service level. the farang places are the worst where the boss sits in a corner all night drinking. i had 2 mates come to Pattaya last weekend after spending 2 months working in the dessert. we went all around, the only place, that stood out as making us want to spend our money was whats up a go go, we stayed in there for 6 hours and spent about 8000 baht, the manager came and said hello and bought us a couple of drinks. compare this with other busness where they cannot even say hello. non business men from europe who have not got a clue how to deal with a hard time. the traffic is as light as i have seen it, even lighter when you got sat nav to get you around little back streets. the business here have to face up to the fact that their customers income is down 30%, do what they are doing in the states and uk, sell cheap cheap until the recession is over.

I've visited TukCom, Friendship, Tesco, Big C, and Carrefour recently and all were doing well. I still had to stand in line at checkout at all those big stores. At Central lots of people do window shop (typical at this kind of mall everywhere), but others buy. At Banana IT, cash in hand, I couldn't get sales assistance, they were so busy. Power Buy--plenty of customers too. And as for the restaurants at Central, I tried to get into Fuji the other weekend: they had to put me on the waiting list! I left, went to the Food Court, and--it was mobbed, almost no place to sit. (Had to park on the street, too, no room for one more motorbike in the parking lot.) How could you not see that kind of evidence? Gimme a break!

But your other observations are spot on. Tropical Bert's--good example of how to do things right. He read the thread about yellow chicken curry, learned what people want, and now he's offering exactly that (according to one satisfied customer). And now I'm gonna visit and get some o' that pretty soon. Sweethearts Go-Go--heard good things about the rock music (true), went, found a really nice vibe, super friendly owner, and now I'm gonna go back next time I'm in Walking Street.

Ah, but were you visiting on the weekend? Yes, I've noticed a lot of Thais come to Pattaya on the weekend, but during the week, Central is pretty quiet. Also, the main places making money are the restaurants/ cinema etc. The clothes shops ( which make up the bulk of the shops ), which are just the same as hundreds of clothes shops all over Thailand don't seem terribly busy at the weekend, and bereft of customers during the week.

Other places are not doing well. Mike's seems to have lost the entire Asian package tour business. I was by there the other night at 9pm, and not a single tour bus! The hotels that catered to them must also be hurting badly.

Re Nalak's post. The service in the vast majority of bars/ GoGos catering for farangs has always been terrible, at least since the mid '90s ( and I've been in awful lot of them to know ). The difference then was that they knew for every PO customer there were hundreds to take their place, but now they are going to have to learn the meaning of "customer satisfaction" and "word of mouth"!

[thaibeachlovers]

But some people have no idea how good it used to be, so they have no reference point from which to assess whether it is better or worse now.

I wasn't here in 1880, but Pattaya is certainly cleaner and less seedy than it was 20 years ago and there is much more to do.

Really! I wasn't here 20 years ago, but it certainly hasn't changed much since 18 years ago, and I remember the beach walkway as being decidedly better then than now.

The only "improvement" has been Walking Street, and the sexy Russian women that one sees there.

The best thing they could do to improve Pattaya now is get rid of that stinky sewage plant at the entrance of Walking Street, and sort out the walkway. Plus a soundshell somewhere for all the events they host along the beach.

Although all is in the eye of the beholder, I've never considered Pattaya "seedy", more like a single man's "Paradise". For seedy, go to London's Soho district.

[thaibeachlovers]

I've been in and out since mid-eighties. I have bought and built in the area and have watched momentous changes almost every year.

Mid-eighties still dusty streets with the hippy brigade still in evidence and a lot of left over Asia hands from " Nam " ( well they all claimed to be ) and short term trippers from HK, Singapore and the like. In general a nice time, with locals and " workers" less hardened to the experience and everyone having a good time.

Early nineties brought ( sadly from my own country ) the hooligan brigade. Loud bare chested and violent. Locals first offended, and then cynical. Not a good time with the building boom spurred on by crooks from Europe as well as locals, with the infra-structure not addressed to keep pace with the rapid, unfounded expansion. Hence floods, droughts and a dumbing down of society which to my simple mind, was not pleasant. The crash came as a typhoon that destroyed the bubble and left unfinished lumps of concrete on almost every corner, but did not wash away all the dross.

Early 2000's optimism again. Talk of casinos, horse racing, and the arrival of Russian and Asian tourists by the bucketful. The crash, (this time self-generated) in the property market has thinned out the hoardes of Estate Agents that thronged every street, but surprisingly there is still a causious optimism for the future, if you talk to the sensible " older " Thai Pattaya families, who can see at least the start of proper development from City Hall and a realisation that when ( not if ) attitudes change about gambling, Pattaya is best placed to build a Thai " Macao " in the future.

Major Hotel chains and Thai business people do not build modern hotels and large shopping complexes if they feel " long term " the place is going to fail. Just like any stock exchange the small time investor always catches a cold. The bar owner ( singular ) will come and go, never really making any form of impact. What is telling is the slow " clearing " of the streets surrounding what will become the bar area ( the only major bar area ) in the future. Someone somewhere with a bigger picture view and more money than you or I, has a positive view on the future. Remember the hotels and shopping areas are not being built with Government hand-outs, they are being built with somebodies cash. The cynic will reply " Blah blah blah, rose tinted glasses no hope etc etc ". However, not all Thai businessmen are fools, far from it, and some of the smartest are quietly buying land and planning for a better future for the area. I for one hope they are right...............I like it here.

Actually, that was a pretty good analysis/overview of what happened. I do not, however, remember "hippie brigades" in Pattaya in the mid-80s. I do remember far more Americans.......but they did not seem like hippies to me.

You are certainly right about rich people having a vision about Pattaya's future........but rich people often make mistakes, just like the rest of us (a certain wanted terrorist living abroad).

Corporations that once seemed on top of the world make mistakes (e.g. GM)

Countries make mistakes (e.g., Greece).

The problem now is not just Thailand..........it is the global economy. And that is going downhill fast because the world we have created is grossly unsustainable...........for three reasons:

1) we did not act soon enough and with a sense of urgency to curb population growth (too many people are putting too much stress on the life systems of the planet with more to come)

2) we did nothing to move the economy away from dependency on fossil fuels (this is leading to climate change and eventually to social chaos on a scale we have never witnessed)

3) we promoted the globalization of the economy (something that has clearly failed).

The optimism on the part of the so-called "insiders or powerful people or rich" assumes everything will turn around and people will start spending big money again.

I would not bet on it............sure, there will be a turnaround, but that will be followed by an even deeper economic downturn if we do not address the three challenges listed above.

Maybe I am wrong.

While it isn't specifically a "Thai" problem, as they seem to have a low population growth ( I never see Thais with very large families about ), you are right about population growth being the downfall of humanity. This is the "elephant in the room", as all these high powered meetings about "climate change" never admit as long as there is unrestricted population growth there is no hope of stopping it. Soon, there will be wars for access to fresh water, and hordes of poor immigrants fleeing their devestated homelands will, if not stopped, destroy our comfortable western way of life ( let's all have 3 cars and a giant tv in every room! ).

People should always remember that it isn't going to be the "end of the world", just the end of humans. The planet will survive quite nicely, thank you.