A Mandela Solution For Thai Troubles?

[webfact]

ANALYSIS

A Mandela solution for Thai troubles?

By Saiten Wiriyaphanpongsa

The Nation

A South African member of that country's Truth and Reconciliation Commission yesterday suggested a "Nelson Mandela model" for Thailand's efforts to achieve national reconciliation amid severe political and social divisions.

Howard Varney, a truth-seeking consultant for the International Centre for Transition Justice, said former South African president Nelson Mandela cleverly forged a sense of nationalism among white and coloured South Africans through the sport of rugby.

The mutual sense of nationalism led to reconciliation among the South Africans after abolition of the policy of apartheid, or racial segregation.

Varney suggested Thailand adopt a similar tactic, possibly using some cultural symbol to draw cooperation from different groups of people. He also said sufficient compensation and sympathy was necessary to achieve true reconciliation.

Varney once worked with the South African Truth and Reconciliation Commission set up by that country's government of national unity to help deal with what happened under apartheid.

He was speaking at a brainstorming seminar at the Siam City Hotel hosted by Thailand's independent fact-finding committee for national reconciliation, which is headed by former attorney-general Kanit na Nakorn.

Kanit also presided over the seminar.

Varney called for the Kanit panel to be protected by a new law to give the panel's members immunity against possible legal action from those affected by their findings. He also suggested panel members show their transparency by disclosing details about their assets and proving they were politically neutral.

Priscilla Hayner, co-founder of the International Centre for Transition Justice, said a reconciliation committee was often set up in other countries after a civil war. But in Thailand's case, it was good for its people to be aware of the need to solve the conflict themselves.

However, she warned a reconciliation committee was not a "cure-all" and that there were cases when it failed, particularly when there was no political willingness for a sincere resolution to a conflict.

Retired diplomat Asada Jayana-ma, Thailand's former representative to the United Nations, suggested secret negotiations between the feuding sides in a bid to end the conflict.

In a related development, Foreign Affairs Minister Kasit Piromya met representatives from international non-governmental organisations (NGOs) on human rights at the Foreign Ministry during lunchtime yesterday.

Kasit explained to his guests about Thailand's reconcilia-|tion efforts, said ministry spokesman Thani Thongphakdi.

Among the NGOs represented at the meeting were Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, the Asian Forum for Human Rights and Development and Transparency Thailand.

-- The Nation 2010-06-29

[jackdawson]

"Thai troubles"

what troubles? the rent-by-the-day red "campers" / arsonists were routed and are back in issan praying for rain .

we're all good

Edited June 29, 2010 by jackdawson

[junglist]

Great idea to bad there is no sports or teams here that could compare to the South African Rugby team and there are no heroes like Mr. Mandela. For more leadership ideas I take a looks at http://www.theelders.org

[Insight]

Great idea to bad there is no sports or teams here that could compare to the South African Rugby team and there are no heroes like Mr. Mandela. For more leadership ideas I take a looks at http://www.theelders.org

Not much of a team activity, but there is Muay Thai with some very brutal practitioners here. Wonder if there's any international team-based tournaments?

[Samuian]

"Thai troubles"

what troubles? the rent-by-the-day red "campers" / arsonists were routed and are back in issan praying for rain .

we're all good

exactly, what "Reconciliation", who tries to split the nation?

Get him and over!

Anyone comparing this home made Thai "Soap Opera" with Nelson Mandela and the southafrican story is making himself the laughing stock of the nation!

Reform the Bureaucracy, the educational system combined with a major clean up and move on!

All this reconciliation talk is nothing else then keeping the foot in the door....

[Rucharee]

Khun Nelson was a terrorist convicted to LIFE imprisonment.

If he is a good guy, why would the government put him in jail.

You cannot change history. Once a criminal, always a criminal.

[jayboy]

"Thai troubles"

what troubles? the rent-by-the-day red "campers" / arsonists were routed and are back in issan praying for rain .

we're all good

exactly, what "Reconciliation", who tries to split the nation?

Get him and over!

Anyone comparing this home made Thai "Soap Opera" with Nelson Mandela and the southafrican story is making himself the laughing stock of the nation!

Reform the Bureaucracy, the educational system combined with a major clean up and move on!

All this reconciliation talk is nothing else then keeping the foot in the door....

Interesting position taken by the last few posters.No reconciliation needed because it's all about Thaksin.Just nail him and the red menace will evaporate.

Many deluded people think this way not just in Thailand but throughout history when confronted with powerful social and political movements.I expect Mr and Mrs Ceaucescu thought in much the same way not long before a rough and ready militia riddled them with bullets.

Ignore these geniuses.

[wales01]

Khun Nelson was a terrorist convicted to LIFE imprisonment.

If he is a good guy, why would the government put him in jail.

You cannot change history. Once a criminal, always a criminal.

Obviously you do not have a clue about SA politics. If you did you would not write CRAP like this

[ThaksinKharma]

I expect Mr and Mrs Ceaucescu thought in much the same way not long before a rough and ready militia riddled them with bullets.

Fair analogy except that the tyrant Nicolae and Elena resemble Thaksin and Potjaman much more closely than the post-Thaksin era.

The difference being that they didn't face the same fate at the wall when the coup occurred.

Edited June 29, 2010 by ThaksinKharma

[silverhawk_usa]

Yes, I can see where a sport like football will bring them closer together...............

Ax murder ends World Cup dispute

NAKHON SRI THAMMARAT: -- A man hacked his boss to death with an ax following an argument over play in the 2010 FIFA World Cup, now into the knockout stages in South Africa.

http://www.thaivisa....te-in-thailand/

[jayboy]

I expect Mr and Mrs Ceaucescu thought in much the same way not long before a rough and ready militia riddled them with bullets.

Fair analogy except that the tyrant Nicolae and Elena resemble Thaksin and Potjaman much more closely than the post-Thaksin era.

The difference being that they didn't face the same fate at the wall when the coup occurred.

Fair point but I wasn't really thinking about individuals.I was referring to the folly of ostrich like behaviour, pretending that huge social and pressures don't exist or can all be explained away by one evil genius whether it's Thaksin for some or Prem for others.

[bendejo]

Uh-oh, I can just see it now, you-know-who (you know, the face on the jumbotron) equating himself with Mandela.

It would be great if Mr Nelson followed that up with a defamation suit, but I doubt he would.

[Cuchulainn]

Is he related to Reg Varney by any chance?

[hammered]

Reality is that a truth and reconcilliation approach as with an apology approach (Cameron comparison) happen when more time, blood and faces have flowed under the bridge. It then becomes easier to admit to and apologise for what "we" mostly meaning others have done. Right now in Thailand all the players are too close to the start of things

[jayboy]

Reality is that a truth and reconcilliation approach as with an apology approach (Cameron comparison) happen when more time, blood and faces have flowed under the bridge. It then becomes easier to admit to and apologise for what "we" mostly meaning others have done. Right now in Thailand all the players are too close to the start of things

True for the Cameron apology (though he deserves credit nonetheless) but the South African process was very immediate and close to the Apartheid cruelties.I suppose a key distinction is that the ANC had won the political and moral case and were in command.In Thailand's case the victory has not yet been determined and one suspects there are more battles to come.

[Portlandstone]

Khun Nelson was a terrorist convicted to LIFE imprisonment.

If he is a good guy, why would the government put him in jail.

You cannot change history. Once a criminal, always a criminal.

Obviously you do not have a clue about SA politics. If you did you would not write CRAP like this

I think he was playing on the Bangkok mentality, i.e. the government is always right we must follow the government, etc.

Is South Africa really a good country to model after? Turn the countries citizens' anger to other things than the real issues at hand?

[eggomaniac]

What about a National Soi Dog training contest?

[ThaksinKharma]

Khun Nelson was a terrorist convicted to LIFE imprisonment.

If he is a good guy, why would the government put him in jail.

You cannot change history. Once a criminal, always a criminal.

Obviously you do not have a clue about SA politics. If you did you would not write CRAP like this

I think he was playing

That seems to be his forte.

[dumball]

I think that when you cannot rear (train) children to behave , do as they are told whitout them giving a diatribe of their own , plus whacks and kicks , how are you going to get them to train soi-dogs , traing is somewhat similar , as in , I am in charge ??????????

[hammered]

Reality is that a truth and reconcilliation approach as with an apology approach (Cameron comparison) happen when more time, blood and faces have flowed under the bridge. It then becomes easier to admit to and apologise for what "we" mostly meaning others have done. Right now in Thailand all the players are too close to the start of things

True for the Cameron apology (though he deserves credit nonetheless) but the South African process was very immediate and close to the Apartheid cruelties.I suppose a key distinction is that the ANC had won the political and moral case and were in command.In Thailand's case the victory has not yet been determined and one suspects there are more battles to come.

The south African struggle had been ongoing for decades and much talked about, but by no means all, was a bit disconnected. I would certainly doubt whether you are goign to see Abhisit, Suthep, Thaksin, Jatuporn, Sondhi, Newin, Anupong, JUakrapob, Arisamon, Petchawat, police, army, reds, yellows etc etc ever fess up to anything they have done let alone everything. Another problem may be Thai face. It is also possible in Thailand that the current players may not be the eventual inheritors of the power as things are little more fluid than in south africa and with a lot lesser degree of division between ordinary people. Still whatever the outcome I will stick with the idea of more time, blood and faces need to flow under the bridge which I think agrees with your sentiment.

[junglist]

Khun Nelson was a terrorist convicted to LIFE imprisonment.

If he is a good guy, why would the government put him in jail.

You cannot change history. Once a criminal, always a criminal.

It is time for you to review your History. This man is a Saint.

[Hyponeros]

Khun Nelson was a terrorist convicted to LIFE imprisonment.

If he is a good guy, why would the government put him in jail.

You cannot change history. Once a criminal, always a criminal.

Try to turn on your brain at least one time! You will realize that it doesn't hurt and you could start using it!

[jackdawson]

jayboy

Thaksin

u were the FIRST guy to mention ur hero na

Edited June 29, 2010 by jackdawson

[landofthefree]

Khun Nelson was a terrorist convicted to LIFE imprisonment.

If he is a good guy, why would the government put him in jail.

You cannot change history. Once a criminal, always a criminal.

Yes he was charged and convicted as a terrorist and put in jail. The international community felt the jail sentence was politically motivated. Doesn't this sound familiar? A case of history repeating itself. I'm amazed that you think that all of the people in jail are guilty and that the Governments are never criminals themselves despite history teaching us the opposite.a case of this is the nazi party in Germany who also put a lot of people in jails often simply because they were born into the wrong families.

[marquess]

Khun Nelson was a terrorist convicted to LIFE imprisonment.

If he is a good guy, why would the government put him in jail.

You cannot change history. Once a criminal, always a criminal.

Yes he was charged and convicted as a terrorist and put in jail. The international community felt the jail sentence was politically motivated. Doesn't this sound familiar? A case of history repeating itself. I'm amazed that you think that all of the people in jail are guilty and that the Governments are never criminals themselves despite history teaching us the opposite.a case of this is the nazi party in Germany who also put a lot of people in jails often simply because they were born into the wrong families.

If you are possibly alluding to a certain self exiled Thai politician there can be no comparison between his motivation and that of Mandela, the latter's was to change an oppressive system rather than enriching himself and his cronies at the expense of the tax payer.

[TheWalkingMan]

Truth commission? Impossible... In order for something like this to work you would need tons of people to admit the wrongs they did. Does anyone actually believe that the culture will allow for people... people with high status to sit in a chair and spill their guts? :lol: Something like this is still a long way off.

TheWalkingMan

[kissdani]

Khun Nelson was a terrorist convicted to LIFE imprisonment.

If he is a good guy, why would the government put him in jail.

You cannot change history. Once a criminal, always a criminal.

Try to turn on your brain at least one time! You will realize that it doesn't hurt and you could start using it!

Actually Rucharee's comment is a smart/wise one, but it needs some brain to get it.

[tharae]

Reconciliation in South Africa?  Nelson Mandella had nothing to do with reconciliation. He, and his political party, the ANC,  had a part to play in the ending of apartheid. Reconciliation in South Africa has been so successful that the crime rate has spiralled out of control and anglo/saxon whites are leaving in their droves. In the words of Don Henley.........kiss it goodbye.

[Rucharee]

Khun Nelson was a terrorist convicted to LIFE imprisonment.

If he is a good guy, why would the government put him in jail.

You cannot change history. Once a criminal, always a criminal.

Yes he was charged and convicted as a terrorist and put in jail. The international community felt the jail sentence was politically motivated. Doesn't this sound familiar? A case of history repeating itself. I'm amazed that you think that all of the people in jail are guilty and that the Governments are never criminals themselves despite history teaching us the opposite.a case of this is the nazi party in Germany who also put a lot of people in jails often simply because they were born into the wrong families.

If you are possibly alluding to a certain self exiled Thai politician there can be no comparison between his motivation and that of Mandela, the latter's was to change an oppressive system rather than enriching himself and his cronies at the expense of the tax payer.

Did someone mention that:

1. Jail sentences could be politically motivated?

2. People in jail might not be not guilty?

3. Governments could be criminals themselves?

The the above 3 points might or could happen to your country, but NEVER in Thailand. Lets be clear here:

1. Thai jail sentences are 100% not politically motivated, as it is not a crime to be a politician.

2. Thai people in jail are 100% guilty, else they won't be there in the first place.

3. Thai Governments are 100% good people, until the government changes.

[gemini81]

Khun Nelson was a terrorist convicted to LIFE imprisonment.

If he is a good guy, why would the government put him in jail.

You cannot change history. Once a criminal, always a criminal.

Yes he was charged and convicted as a terrorist and put in jail. The international community felt the jail sentence was politically motivated. Doesn't this sound familiar? A case of history repeating itself. I'm amazed that you think that all of the people in jail are guilty and that the Governments are never criminals themselves despite history teaching us the opposite.a case of this is the nazi party in Germany who also put a lot of people in jails often simply because they were born into the wrong families.

politically motivated or not doesn't matter, guilty is guilty, isn't it? crimes against humanity are as such. hard to even claim thaksin was removed for the career advancement of someone else, it was 'cause of all his law breaking, concealing funds, massacre in the south, the drug war..

The Nazis have nothign to do with this, except maybe a tyrant-in-the-making!

At least Mandela had the balls to return, which gives him some credibility. A man who weasels away and hides suggests guilt to the highest level. saying "politically motivated" are the words from thaksin's mouth you're speaking! (bbc interview if you recall)