Khon Farang, Khon Kaek?

[SimonN]

"Farang" means "Caucasian" so we already know this is a person, there's no need to add "kon". Same goes with "kaek", it means person of southwest-Asian descent, again no need to add the "kon".

We need to add "kon" on the front of "Thai", "Africa" etc to to show that it's a person we're talking about.

[jombom]

you can all put the blame on the french failed invasion in Indo-China particularly cambodge for making its inhabitants generalise every evil looking european as "barang" and bastardised thai version "farang"

This is a common misconception. The words Farang and Barang actually predate the words France and French, and are derived from the word Frank. I posted quite a long explanation on a previous thread, and do not wish to repeat it here. It simply means European and now includes people of European descent. The word Farang also predates the voyage of Columbus, and has its origins about 1150 AD, and is related to the early crusades.

[Richard W]

Incidentally English could be construed as being ruder than Thai. Why do we say an Englishman and a Frenchman but an Italian and a Greek? Does that mean we don't consider Italians and Greeks to be people?

Actually, there are good historical reasons not to call an Englishman an Angle or a Frenchman a Frank. The last native (i.e. English) dynasty in England was of Saxons rather than of Angles, and the Franks were the ruling class of France. The simplex for Welsh was fundamentally disparaging - Walton could be the home of inferior Englishmen - so perhaps 'Welsh' is an upgrade. I know of no reason for the simplex for Irish (OE plural Iras) vanishing.

[Loz]

Its not a nice term. I'm black and I get it a lot and find it only marginally better than "Nico".

I suggest you learn enough thai to make a witty retort when it bothers you. This is by far the best remedy as thais are flabergasted when then encounter johnny foreigner who speaks thai! they think we are incapable... twunts!

[LazyYogi]

In any case, Thais still use "khon" when talking about farang, since it is the classifier for people.

ex.: "mii faràng sǎam khon maa gin khâao". (Three foreigners came to eat.)

[AjarnPasa]

Flames deleted. How about staying on topic?

Moved to Thai Language subforum so the experts can sort it out

Thanks Sabajai ... but did you have too?!

The farang = french / farang = farengi thing is a right pain because it keeps being used to batter the idea of racism around :

Here from Wikipedia:

Farangi, firang, firangi or parangi is a term for foreigners in Persian, with particular reference to Westerners, possibly linked to the West Germanic tribe of the Franks that became the biggest political power in Western Europe during the early Middle Ages. The word in Arabic (faranji or ferenji) is similar and the word farangi also appears in Amharic, and Urdu in reference to western Europeans.

In the Indian language Hindi, it appears as firangi, slang for Caucasians, which translates to "colorful" or having two colors. At that time britishers used to show that they think of the welfare of the Indians but they had their own plans to rule over Indians.

In southern India, in Tamil and Malayalam, the word is pronounced as parangi, since many Dravidian languages lack an "F" sound, but which may also reflect Southern Indian exposure specifically to the Portuguese who arrived and traded with the south Indian ports during the 16th century. "Parangi malai" (St. Thomas Mount), near Madras is named in reference to the Portuguese-established Church of St.Thomas on top of the hillock. Parangi kai and Parangi Aru may also have been named this for similar reasons.

And, yes there are Ferengis in StarTrek too!

Which argument convinces you more: westerners are all French, or the word is derived from a rich and geographically broad etymological lineage.

[AjarnPasa]

... oh, and on the whole คน thing. In Thai the names of countries and continents act as adjectives and thus need to be qualified by a noun: pasa Thai, prathet Thai, ahaan Thai, khon Thai. See how this applies to Europe as well: ahaan Europe, khon Europe etc.

Farang (whatever it's provenance) is a noun already so needs no such qualification. h/t to Simon N who says as much above.

So in answer to the OP's original question, it is a matter of grammar and syntax and not some conspiracy of racism as some here seem to suggest.

[Rikker]

This thread was started on a false premise (that คน 'khon' is only applied to Asians), which is patently untrue. Glad to see some posters laid this fallacy to rest. Nothing more to say. So thread closed.