Thai Immigration Cancells Visa And Blacklists Composer Mickhail Pletnev

[sunray69]

I wonder how the Russians will react to that ???

Since I read another thread today about Thais drinking way too much maybe this police guy was already drunk when he passed this order? That s a real possibility!

[hardy1943]

If this story is in fact true, it makes a total mockery of justice in Thailand. Might this be because Pletnev has shown he will fight the case in Court and the authorities are so incensed by the international media response (which has highlighted the fact that Thailand is a haven for pedophiles rather than the efforts of the country to clean up its act) that they literally want the case and Pletnev to disappear? Wherever he is now, he cannot get back to Thailand and report back to the Court as ordered. So he is doubly damned. Accused of being a pedophile and treated as one without any shred of evidence being brought out in Court! Yet not even allowed to prove his innocence (if that is the case). What makes this even more disgraceful is that the Immigration Chief has acted before getting a reply from the "Child and Women Unit". I am shocked and appalled.

MAYBE WE SHOULD WAIT UNTIL HE IS CONVICTED ? JUST A THOUGHT LA !.....

Perfectly fair point. But it seems the Thai Justice System will not even give him that opportunity! I hope there is an international outcry over this.

You are right, but outcry 99% of people in this world does not even know it exist or where it is and could not care less

Edited July 21, 2010 by hardy1943

[Odysseus221]

He just returned to Thailand to fight the case.

And so the giant stink if they kick him out now will go world wide.

Another instance of embarrassed officials shooting off at the mouth first,

then considering the consequences later...

I suspect someone has eyes on his properties too...

So he won't be allowed to fight the charges, but blacklisted without a day in court,

or will he and it proves a set up by the scumbag who dimed him out?

And of course a real embarrassment for the whole police bureau that perp-walked him,

and took what they thought was a easy pay off to let him go perform,

never expecting him to return of course.

The tripe mixed with bile gets deeper by the hour.

AS THE WEST IMPOSES ITS VALUES ON THE EAST, THINGS GET MORE CONFUSED HERE. ONCE UPON A TIME,I TOOK JUDO LESSONS FROM A KOREAN, LONG BEFORE THIS ISSUE (PEODOPHILIA) WAS A SPOKEN WORD. HE EXPLAINED TO ME A CHINESE CUSTOM, OF OLD MEN LYING WITH YOUNG TWO YOUNG GIRLS, HIS HANDS ON THEIR VAGINAS, IN AN ATTEMPT TO ABSORB THEIR YOUTHFUL ENERGY. WE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH RESPECT FOR ANCIENT CUSTOMS, WHICH WE INTERFERE WITH. WHILE SOME SEEM BARBARIC AND ARE, THE HARM WE DO BY IMPOSING OUR VALUES ON THEIR BELIEFS ARE LIKE THE IGNORANT IMPOSING THEIR WILL ON THE LEARNED. WE DO NOT UNDERSTAND SO COMPLETELY TO DISMISS ANCIENT VALUES SO TRIVIALLY. WITNESS THE CHINESE NOW OVERWHELMING THE TIBETAN CULTURE WITH THE SAME RESOLVE; IT IS ALL IN ONE VEIN--A LACK OF RESPECT. THERE MUST BE SOME HAPPY MEDIUM HERE, NOT JUST IN TERMS OF INSIDEOUS WESTERN MOTIVATIONS OF EXPLOITATION, BUT IN TERMS OF RESPECTING THE TRADITIONS OF PEOPLES WE ARE JUST PLAIN IGNORANT ABOUT. WE CANNOT BE TOTTALY RIGHT OR MORAL IN A WORLD OF RELATIVITY.

EDIT:

Do not post your reply in another members quote and do not post in CAPS. It is considered shouting- mario2008

Edited July 21, 2010 by Mario2008
reply removed from quoted section.

[Sunny Valentine]

This is embarrassing. Most people who have to deal with Pattaya Immigration know there is no contempt for the law, as they almost daily create their own rules. Corruption is also not unheard of, and now they ignore the judical process. The very fact that the men did come back under the bail agreement should tell all that there is quite a chance that he is not guilty as accused.

First Thaksim not repecting the Thai Judical System, and now Immigration. Who's next?

[jackdawson]

it's interesting how thailand can set the rules on who it lets come here / stay here .

i was flabbergasted when the conductor returned here .

Edited July 21, 2010 by jackdawson

[Sabre]

By now everybody knows who is behind the setup of this man. Maybe someone can check the bank transfers into the account of the immigration chief. First there were pictures than there were not, than there were movies and x rated images on a computer than they were suddenly not. What stayed was the big company that had to settle a score. the lesson: Do not do business in Thailand. When the influential see that you are doing too good, they will use any trick in the book to get you out and their hands on your assets.

As a rule however, messing with influential Russians isn't usually good for one's longevity even if you are a policeman in a foreign country.

This story will run well beyond him being blacklisted (although he is apparently in the country under the terms of his bail), and I think we may find that this blacklisting may well be just a terrible slip of the tongue. How are they going to effect the visa cancellation? Arrest him and deport him. Now that is going to look very nice on world news.

Russian deported because policeman decided he was guilty. It is almost as though the immigration department forgot to notice that courts even exist in Thailand. The press will have a field day with it.

This is so obviously a travesty of justice that not even the government can ignore it.

The Russian embassy will be all over this story like a rash, hopefully Thailand's esteemed Foreign Minister has received a call already. What is Abhisit's contact number again to get in touch?

Actually the Russian mafia in Chonburi is pretty weak these days, as I understand it. They took a hiding after the bank heist a few years ago.

I think you may be overestimating how much people are going to care.

[Pattayatony]

So before even being found guilty these %% treat him like he is.........so much for the fair treatment rulling

In Thailand You are Guilty until you are proven innocent.

[NCFC]

With his visa revoked he cannot face charges, the case then gets dropped.

Everyone a winner?

[Tatsujin]

So before even being found guilty these %% treat him like he is.........so much for the fair treatment rulling

In Thailand You are Guilty until you are proven innocent.

No different from anywhere else, UK is the same now, you are treated and assumed as being guilty until YOU can prove you are innocent.

[iko]

Thinking that the guy is innocent just cause he came back to thailand is a bit too much. I'm not a cops fan, but i seriously doubt that an innocent man is pedo-charged for nothing. I guess most of us think the same here (thai legal system aside...)

[MaiChai]

Just proves the point: Thailand is not a place to retired to, bring all your money to, or expect to receive fair justice. This guy was set up in my opinion. I just hope he does get a fair trial. How can be be blacklisted if the court has not passed judgement?

[pavlik]

I wonder how the Russians will react to that ???

As a Russian, I am personally pissed off.

But that, of course, doesn't reflect the official position of Russia.

[mxyz250newb]

 Maybe it's too early for ME to say this but, I'm disgusted by the lack of justice in most justice systems, thailand included.

Also, i'm not sure if some people realize this, but in Canada we have the same "gestapo justice" where at times you are setup by the cops as well, it happens in all countries. It's just a fact that corruption exists worldwide, not much can be done except violent rioting, when will the people get mad enough? (I wish canadians had the balls to do some of the things i've seen in thailand)...

I  really hope this case gets alot more exposure...

[iko]

As far as i know (i've been leaving in thai 5 years now) corruption is rampant but it is involved when somebody is guilty of something. They don't just 'frame' a guy randomnly, especially if he's famous or demi-famous 9and could obviously involve abmassies and stuff). Please let's try to be realistic.

[Garry]

By now everybody knows who is behind the setup of this man. Maybe someone can check the bank transfers into the account of the immigration chief. First there were pictures than there were not, than there were movies and x rated images on a computer than they were suddenly not. What stayed was the big company that had to settle a score. the lesson: Do not do business in Thailand. When the influential see that you are doing too good, they will use any trick in the book to get you out and their hands on your assets.

As a rule however, messing with influential Russians isn't usually good for one's longevity even if you are a policeman in a foreign country.

This story will run well beyond him being blacklisted (although he is apparently in the country under the terms of his bail), and I think we may find that this blacklisting may well be just a terrible slip of the tongue. How are they going to effect the visa cancellation? Arrest him and deport him. Now that is going to look very nice on world news.

Russian deported because policeman decided he was guilty. It is almost as though the immigration department forgot to notice that courts even exist in Thailand. The press will have a field day with it.

This is so obviously a travesty of justice that not even the government can ignore it.

The Russian embassy will be all over this story like a rash, hopefully Thailand's esteemed Foreign Minister has received a call already. What is Abhisit's contact number again to get in touch?

Just send the PM and SMS, you should have no problems

Edited July 21, 2010 by Garry

[tominbkk]

This whole thing must go quite a few layers deeper than any of us really know. He may be innocent, but his choice of friends and helpers was not the wisest. Still, I thought kudos on him that he was coming back to defend himself, and then he is deported. For all we know, he may have been part of the decision making process itself to deport himself......

[R123]

Just a few thoughts:I suppose the authorities have the power whether or not someone is convicted of a crime here in Thailand or not, to cancel that person's visa and a similar power if it suits the authorities to blacklist him. Across the world immigration authorities or equivalent have the powers for example to refuse visa's etc to anyone without giving reasons.

Correct?

Edited July 21, 2010 by R123

[keymaker]

I just got a question: if the kid was yours, were all of you still supporting the paedophile farang and blaming Thai justice? LOL

[Dukeleto]

I do think that it's no more fair to say that Thailand is a haven for pedophiles than it is to prejudge the accused, nor an intelligent way of responding to the media, which everyone knows can't be taken seriously. The United States is crawling with them, they're loudmouthed and arrogant even where employed in school systems. Thankfully, I've not found myself required to share space with people like that or with heavy substance abusers, in fact, of the many people I know in Thailand, none of them are like that, so I'm proud and happy to be here. In the states, I couldn't get away from them. I hope and pray for a fair resolution of this tragic event, and encourage Thailand (and everyone) to be fair, reasonable and forgiving.

At last...a voice of reason. Well said sir!

[sedeflonga]

If this story is in fact true, it makes a total mockery of justice in Thailand. Might this be because Pletnev has shown he will fight the case in Court and the authorities are so incensed by the international media response (which has highlighted the fact that Thailand is a haven for pedophiles rather than the efforts of the country to clean up its act) that they literally want the case and Pletnev to disappear? Wherever he is now, he cannot get back to Thailand and report back to the Court as ordered. So he is doubly damned. Accused of being a pedophile and treated as one without any shred of evidence being brought out in Court! Yet not even allowed to prove his innocence (if that is the case). What makes this even more disgraceful is that the Immigration Chief has acted before getting a reply from the "Child and Women Unit". I am shocked and appalled.

MAYBE WE SHOULD WAIT UNTIL HE IS CONVICTED ? JUST A THOUGHT LA !.....

Perfectly fair point. But it seems the Thai Justice System will not even give him that opportunity! I hope there is an international outcry over this.

I think you may be looking at it the wrong way.

They've stopped his visa so he can't come back and face charges.

What if influential people from whichever country have found a way to let him go free without Thailand losing face.

The Thais can't prosecute him because they've put him on a blacklist and won't let him back into the country.

I wonder who gets to keep all the guy's assets in Thailand. Hasn't he got houses and businesses all over the place?

Makes you think.

I don't know what everyone is talking about 'letting him back'???

HE ARRIVED A FEW DAYS BACK IN THAILAND and now what could happen next?

[DefaultName]

This is my opinion only;

They tried for a shakedown, but the guy didn't bite.

So they arrested him, he still didn't bite.

They saw that he wasn't going to play by Thai rules (where everything goes away if you throw Baht at it).

Realising that he was sticking to his story, was high(ish) profile and that the publicity meant that this one had to be ended somehow, they bailed him - but allowed him to leave the country, thinking that he would never dare return.

When he did return to face his accusers in court, they didn't want that, so they are going to kick him out of the country without giving him the chance to prove his innocence.

If they did allow him to go to court, and the court didn't find him guilty, some senior(ish) police would lose face, and they don't want to chance that.

No one now sees any way to make any money out of this one, so "let's just kick him out and forget about all this" is the easy option; if he never goes to court, then he must have been guilty, so everyone was right and face is saved.

Notice that I haven't touched on whether he did it or not, that seems irrelevant to the Thai way of thinking. Baht is King, and Queen, and government..................... If right at the start someone hadn't seen the opportunity to trouser some folding, this would never have seen the light of day.

IMO of course.

[sedeflonga]

Sorry, I'm reading this development a different way...

If he's blacklisted and has his visa canceled, he'd either have to leave the country, or be actively deported by the Thai authorities, and be unable legally to return.

In that case, he'd never be present for the completion of the pending legal proceedings. So I'm not sure how the case could proceed to a verdict in those circumstances.

It seems rather a way of Thailand getting rid of the guy without having to put a prominent Russian artist on trial.... If true, that would seem to benefit a fair number of different interests in this mess.

...leaving aside the question of whether the guy is guilty or innocent. He's been accused before, so this episode would just be another one added to the list.

I dont think that is what's going on because they already tarnished his reputation. And blacklisting + Visa cancel doesn't make anything better

[bapak]

I just got a question: if the kid was yours, were all of you still supporting the paedophile farang and blaming Thai justice? LOL

Oh! You have him convicted already... Not much different than Immigration.

[humqdpf]

Maybe the idea is that if his visa is taken from him, he must be deported (and pay an exit fine for not having a visa). And if he is deported, it means that he cannot stand trial. Maybe there is more to this than meets the eye or maybe I have been living in these parts too long!!!!

[Just1Voice]

If this story is in fact true, it makes a total mockery of justice in Thailand. Might this be because Pletnev has shown he will fight the case in Court and the authorities are so incensed by the international media response (which has highlighted the fact that Thailand is a haven for pedophiles rather than the efforts of the country to clean up its act) that they literally want the case and Pletnev to disappear? Wherever he is now, he cannot get back to Thailand and report back to the Court as ordered. So he is doubly damned. Accused of being a pedophile and treated as one without any shred of evidence being brought out in Court! Yet not even allowed to prove his innocence (if that is the case). What makes this even more disgraceful is that the Immigration Chief has acted before getting a reply from the "Child and Women Unit". I am shocked and appalled.

MAYBE WE SHOULD WAIT UNTIL HE IS CONVICTED ? JUST A THOUGHT LA !.....

Perfectly fair point. But it seems the Thai Justice System will not even give him that opportunity! I hope there is an international outcry over this.

I think you may be looking at it the wrong way.

They've stopped his visa so he can't come back and face charges.

What if influential people from whichever country have found a way to let him go free without Thailand losing face.

The Thais can't prosecute him because they've put him on a blacklist and won't let him back into the country.

I wonder who gets to keep all the guy's assets in Thailand. Hasn't he got houses and businesses all over the place?

Makes you think.

Some of you are totally missing the point. The guy CAME BACK LAST WEEK AND REPORTED TO COURT JUST AS HE SAID HE WOULD DO. After his court appearance he told the press, he came back to prove his integrity, and to show he's a man of his word. He also stated he knows who is behind the charges, and that it's pretty much a frame up. THAT is not what the Thai courts expected. They figured he would not come back, but when he did, and reported to the court as he was supposed to, they had to come up with something else. So, cancel the visa and blacklist him, even though he's hasn't been found guilty of a single thing.

If I were the Russian Ambassador, I would be DEMANDING a meeting with Abhist and voicing my serious disapproval of what is going on, and then call a major press conference with every news media, local and international, and totally trash the justice system here in Thailand, exposing it for the corrupt entity that it really is.

[dude007]

Yes, guilty until proven innocent... Situation normal.

Typical Thai again... Can't wait for the court's decision. Even the investigation is underway and not finished... Highly smelly and unruly! Our Russian musician needs a very good lawyer now to bring this arrogant officer back to the rules...

Wonder if the same would happen with a Thai high ranking politician?

[Tatsujin]

Perhaps someone who understands Thai law better than myself can clarify or confirm, but I was of the understanding that any foreigner who is charged or arrested automatically has their Visa revoked/cancelled and also is automatically blacklisted. I'm assuming also then that if that person is found Not Guilty after a Trial, they are then able to have this reversed.

I did some research for those that are interested (click here) . . . don't know how accurate it is but seems like #6 and #7 would apply in this case.

Edited July 21, 2010 by Tatsujin

[humqdpf]

Thinking that the guy is innocent just cause he came back to thailand is a bit too much. I'm not a cops fan, but i seriously doubt that an innocent man is pedo-charged for nothing. I guess most of us think the same here (thai legal system aside...)

Many people have been "pedo-charged" and the charges were not proven in the end. Especially in Thailand, there are people who are charged with lots of things that they did not do so that some cops or law enforcement can make money out of them. From the cop who runs up to you, a non-smoker, with a cigarette butt in his hand and tells you to pay a big fine because you have put your cigarette out on the street to the cops who stop you on your motorbike and make up some infringement that you did not do to get their donation to the security guards in league with the cops who framed many foreigners for "stealing" from duty free shops to the cops who tried to fit up the foreigner in one city over a girl he met in a brothel who turned out to be either barely underage (rumour has it that he committed suicide in prison - but that might have been because he was prepared to call the policemens bluff, sweat it out for a few months in remand jail and tell the court exactly what happened!).

Getting someone on pedophilia means that they can get more money. Especially if the accused has a high profile. Suddenly it backfires and now we have this. It would be a comedy if it were not so weirdly nasty.

[jayjay0]

Sorry, I'm reading this development a different way...

If he's blacklisted and has his visa canceled, he'd either have to leave the country, or be actively deported by the Thai authorities, and be unable legally to return.

In that case, he'd never be present for the completion of the pending legal proceedings. So I'm not sure how the case could proceed to a verdict in those circumstances.

It seems rather a way of Thailand getting rid of the guy without having to put a prominent Russian artist on trial.... If true, that would seem to benefit a fair number of different interests in this mess.

...leaving aside the question of whether the guy is guilty or innocent. He's been accused before, so this episode would just be another one added to the list.

thanks for your opinion. I am pretty fed up with the Thai haters. Its nice to get one not based on Bias

Not being the lawyer most of these posters are I really can't say that he has to be deported because they canceled his visa. I am sure that the Thai legal system is the same as the one's I am familiar with in the US and Canada. You will notice I said legal system not Justice system. They are two separate animals. It is not uncommon in both countries to have a law that will nullify another one. In point perhaps they can hold him under another law.

Yes every one is rite he has not been convicted. However this is not his first charge would all these high moral minded people let him baby sit there kids.

Yes the Russian embassy might come in with there guns a blazing. But why, are they afraid he might return to Russia remember he has a reputation there for this kind of thing.

Edited July 21, 2010 by jayjay0

[dude007]

If this story is in fact true, it makes a total mockery of justice in Thailand. Might this be because Pletnev has shown he will fight the case in Court and the authorities are so incensed by the international media response (which has highlighted the fact that Thailand is a haven for pedophiles rather than the efforts of the country to clean up its act) that they literally want the case and Pletnev to disappear? Wherever he is now, he cannot get back to Thailand and report back to the Court as ordered. So he is doubly damned. Accused of being a pedophile and treated as one without any shred of evidence being brought out in Court! Yet not even allowed to prove his innocence (if that is the case). What makes this even more disgraceful is that the Immigration Chief has acted before getting a reply from the "Child and Women Unit". I am shocked and appalled.

MAYBE WE SHOULD WAIT UNTIL HE IS CONVICTED ? JUST A THOUGHT LA !.....

Perfectly fair point. But it seems the Thai Justice System will not even give him that opportunity! I hope there is an international outcry over this.

I think you may be looking at it the wrong way.

They've stopped his visa so he can't come back and face charges.

What if influential people from whichever country have found a way to let him go free without Thailand losing face.

The Thais can't prosecute him because they've put him on a blacklist and won't let him back into the country.

I wonder who gets to keep all the guy's assets in Thailand. Hasn't he got houses and businesses all over the place?

Makes you think.

Some of you are totally missing the point. The guy CAME BACK LAST WEEK AND REPORTED TO COURT JUST AS HE SAID HE WOULD DO. After his court appearance he told the press, he came back to prove his integrity, and to show he's a man of his word. He also stated he knows who is behind the charges, and that it's pretty much a frame up. THAT is not what the Thai courts expected. They figured he would not come back, but when he did, and reported to the court as he was supposed to, they had to come up with something else. So, cancel the visa and blacklist him, even though he's hasn't been found guilty of a single thing.

If I were the Russian Ambassador, I would be DEMANDING a meeting with Abhist and voicing my serious disapproval of what is going on, and then call a major press conference with every news media, local and international, and totally trash the justice system here in Thailand, exposing it for the corrupt entity that it really is.

I fully agree on your vision, except for the point of the Ambassador having a talk with Abhisit. Let the court first decide if he is guilty or not and then your scenario fits perfectly again! Some will be seriously annoyed if he's pleading NOT GUILTY and found NOT GUILTY. The person who set up this trick seems to be very surprised that he came back to fight his innocense and he must be seriously embarrassed of the strange and brave development of this case. That's why he has been revoked his visa and blacklisted: this person is feeling the heath!!! It's all a set-up from which the NGO's are taking their part of the deal... without any knowledge unfortunately as usual.