The Good, The Bad And The Ugly.

[thepanicandthevomit]

more like, hit with his rhythm stick.

maybe rakers and sbk could become a double act.

Ahhh this thread has it all....even the paranoia.....ya gotta hand it to Mark...

It's a thoughtful post. Why IS there such a difference between yer average farang punter in thailand and the membership of this board? I think I know, but am not allowed to say. I'm pretty sure it's got nothing to do with where people are posting from, though.

[Ulysses G.]

Well, if the Fedora fits...

Actually, since you mention it, have you checked out Marky's Avtar - it looks awfully like my own (which predates his).

What's all that about I wonder?!

Yours is Bogart. His is some guy wearing a hat. Don't get paranoid.

[mark45y]

Well, if the Fedora fits...

Actually, since you mention it, have you checked out Marky's Avtar - it looks awfully like my own (which predates his).

What's all that about I wonder?!

I must admit I have always liked Bogart even though he had a penchant for very young women. I also like hats. Although it is hard to find a decent hat in Thailand. I always thought your use of the Bogart was a subliminal message that you were looking for a Thai Lauren Bacall. My avatar is a line drawing but it is not Bogart.

[mark45y]

I'm a tad confused by what constitutes an expat in the context of this thread. Those of us who choose/are forced to work abroad may be working anywhere in the world right? Basing ourselves in Thailand when we are not working. Whether we work on a rig travel around the world on airoplanes for a month or three or indeed return to our countries of origin in search of this is any of this important?

The common theme is we spend a large portion of our time in Thailand whether we have or are investing in the country or simply choose to enjoy ourselves who is more expat?....someone who has lived in Thailand for a year or one who has spent 6 months a year for the last 20 years.....over to you....

I would imagine it is different for different people. I didn’t have a clue really for the first three years of living here. After that I became involved in a Thai business with a Thai family. That added another dimension to my experience. Living and working in Thailand with Thais gives different experiences than working abroad and living in ex pat bars. Certainly both are ex pat experiences.

Small town experiences or big city experiences both different and both part of the culture. I had a three bedroom home in Pattaya filled with bar girls for almost two years. I also had a small home in a small town filled with one woman for a couple of years. Totally different experiences.

After living in Chiang Mai discovered Lanna people are different than a lot of Thai people. I use the term Lanna for lack of a better word. Some people come to Thailand to look at the scenery I came to look at the people so my focus is going to be different.

In this thread my point was not so much the difference between living here part time and full time but the people who don’t live here at all and post as they do. I think their rational is all people are the same so observations of people in the UK or US also apply equally to people in Thailand. And that is nonsense.

[taninthai]

i thhought this forum was for advise hear we have another 3 page pointless thread that just turns into known adult members bickering like 5 year old kids who cares if people post on a forum and dont live in the country (AND WE DONT KNOW IF THAT IS THE CASE)god these general topics are really pointless get a life............

[Moonrakers]

i thhought this forum was for advise hear we have another 3 page pointless thread that just turns into known adult members bickering like 5 year old kids who cares if people post on a forum and dont live in the country (AND WE DONT KNOW IF THAT IS THE CASE)god these general topics are really pointless get a life............

Just a smidgen of irony in your post, eh!

[mahtin]

AND WE DONT KNOW IF THAT IS THE CASE

This is upper case.

[stander]

Moonraker, you would not know irony if it was to fall on your head

[bkkjames]

Moonraker, you would not know irony if it was to fall on your head

That's not Irony, that's bad luck mate. I once dropped an iron on my foot though. There definately wasn't any irony in that but there was a great deal of swearing.

[dmax]

so what ? are you saying that everyone must reside in thailand to be able to post on this site ? silly question i think you just posted ! i have been to thailand 16 times over 10 years usually staying for 2 months at a time, i am planning to stay longer when i have the money built up ,i have a house in thailand and have a baby to my thai wife. i am currently posting from uk . whats the big deal ?

[mark45y]

i thhought this forum was for advise hear we have another 3 page pointless thread that just turns into known adult members bickering like 5 year old kids who cares if people post on a forum and dont live in the country (AND WE DONT KNOW IF THAT IS THE CASE)god these general topics are really pointless get a life............

A friend of mine belonged to an organization that met 3 or 4 times a week to discuss a complex issue. Not as complex as Thailand.

New members were not allowed to speak for the first three months at the meetings they could only listen.

After three months they were allowed to ask questions but not debate the answers.

After a year they were allowed to give some input but always differed to the long time members.

After three years they could give input on other peoples questions. And after 5 years people began listening to them or seeking them out for advice.

This topic was not near as complicated as moving from the west to Thailand.

I am not suggesting Thai Visa prevent people from expressing their opinions but I do think that people who have not lived here for at least 5 years have little knowledge of Thailand, its people and customs. 10 or 20 years I imagine people begin to get a real feel for the country and culture.

[GarryP]

I tend to agree with Marky. However, I know a few foreigners who have been living in Thailand for 20 years up and still have no knowledge of Thailand. They have absolutely no interest. Their level of comprehension of the Thai language remains basic too. They would never acknowledge the fact and to people who don't know them, they always try to come across as some old Thailand hand.

[taninthai]

i thhought this forum was for advise hear we have another 3 page pointless thread that just turns into known adult members bickering like 5 year old kids who cares if people post on a forum and dont live in the country (AND WE DONT KNOW IF THAT IS THE CASE)god these general topics are really pointless get a life............

A friend of mine belonged to an organization that met 3 or 4 times a week to discuss a complex issue. Not as complex as Thailand.

New members were not allowed to speak for the first three months at the meetings they could only listen.

After three months they were allowed to ask questions but not debate the answers.

After a year they were allowed to give some input but always differed to the long time members.

After three years they could give input on other peoples questions. And after 5 years people began listening to them or seeking them out for advice.

This topic was not near as complicated as moving from the west to Thailand.

I am not suggesting Thai Visa prevent people from expressing their opinions but I do think that people who have not lived here for at least 5 years have little knowledge of Thailand, its people and customs. 10 or 20 years I imagine people begin to get a real feel for the country and culture.

what a load off rubbish maybe a person that has been here for 5 years and spends all his time drinking in bars with ladies of the night might have little knowledge off thailand but some people are quick and willing learners and would have a good knowledge within this time. it is also to do with experiences as you learn from your experiences.

[robblok]

what a load off rubbish maybe a person that has been here for 5 years and spends all his time drinking in bars with ladies of the night might have little knowledge off thailand but some people are quick and willing learners and would have a good knowledge within this time. it is also to do with experiences as you learn from your experiences.

Marky thinks he is some kind of big shot and in his mind he has bedded 1000's of girls and that makes him the expert here. Just read in his other gems of posts. He thinks everyone is inferior to him and his intellect.

I just think he is real insecure and rather have that people respect him for time spend here then to judge him on his input and ideas. Maybe he has been here too long and likes the Thai system where age and seniority is everything and knowledge is only second.

[zzaa09]

I'm a tad confused by what constitutes an expat in the context of this thread. Those of us who choose/are forced to work abroad may be working anywhere in the world right? Basing ourselves in Thailand when we are not working. Whether we work on a rig travel around the world on airoplanes for a month or three or indeed return to our countries of origin in search of this is any of this important?

The common theme is we spend a large portion of our time in Thailand whether we have or are investing in the country or simply choose to enjoy ourselves who is more expat?....someone who has lived in Thailand for a year or one who has spent 6 months a year for the last 20 years.....over to you....

The term, expat, has seemingly negative and desperate undertones.

[taninthai]

what a load off rubbish maybe a person that has been here for 5 years and spends all his time drinking in bars with ladies of the night might have little knowledge off thailand but some people are quick and willing learners and would have a good knowledge within this time. it is also to do with experiences as you learn from your experiences.

Marky thinks he is some kind of big shot and in his mind he has bedded 1000's of girls and that makes him the expert here. Just read in his other gems of posts. He thinks everyone is inferior to him and his intellect.

I just think he is real insecure and rather have that people respect him for time spend here then to judge him on his input and ideas. Maybe he has been here too long and likes the Thai system where age and seniority is everything and knowledge is only second.

i did notice in a few off his posts he brings up the fact he has lived in houses full off bar girls and has spent alot off time with prostitutes he seems proud off theses facts.

well in my book that just makes him one thing..............

[zzaa09]

so what ? are you saying that everyone must reside in thailand to be able to post on this site ? silly question i think you just posted !

I believe Mark's intentions were to call out the wannabes whom speak of Thai/Thailand/Thai affairs as learned and connected, but really haven't a clue of what they speak of. It's not so much if you fit into the class cased category of resident, commuter, old-hand, one-time traveller, etc. Experience and exposure is everything.

[mark45y]

I tend to agree with Marky. However, I know a few foreigners who have been living in Thailand for 20 years up and still have no knowledge of Thailand. They have absolutely no interest. Their level of comprehension of the Thai language remains basic too. They would never acknowledge the fact and to people who don't know them, they always try to come across as some old Thailand hand.

I agree language is very important. One of the big mistakes I made when coming here was not learning how to write Thai. It scared me. So I learned a new phonetic alphabet so I could learn to speak Thai. That was stupid. I should have spent a little more time in the beginning to learn the Thai alphabet. Now I am doing so but I wasted a bunch of time before I realized it.

[zzaa09]

I tend to agree with Marky. However, I know a few foreigners who have been living in Thailand for 20 years up and still have no knowledge of Thailand. They have absolutely no interest. Their level of comprehension of the Thai language remains basic too. They would never acknowledge the fact and to people who don't know them, they always try to come across as some old Thailand hand.

Indeed. There are more of these such characters around than one might be lead to believe. Quite amazing, it is..

[StreetCowboy]

8>< -- SNIP NESTED QUOTES DELETED ><8

i did notice in a few off his posts he brings up the fact .....

well in my book that just makes him one thing..............

A victim of prejudice and stereotyped bigotry?

I dread to think where I appear in your book, but I bet I've been stereotyped as well.

Personally, I think it is better to avoid prejudice and tolerate other people's pecaddillos and shortcomings as best that we can, regardless of where they come from or where they live.

Is yours a big book? Mine is a little black one...

SC

[mark45y]

what a load off rubbish maybe a person that has been here for 5 years and spends all his time drinking in bars with ladies of the night might have little knowledge off thailand but some people are quick and willing learners and would have a good knowledge within this time. it is also to do with experiences as you learn from your experiences.

Marky thinks he is some kind of big shot and in his mind he has bedded 1000's of girls and that makes him the expert here. Just read in his other gems of posts. He thinks everyone is inferior to him and his intellect.

I just think he is real insecure and rather have that people respect him for time spend here then to judge him on his input and ideas. Maybe he has been here too long and likes the Thai system where age and seniority is everything and knowledge is only second.

i did notice in a few off his posts he brings up the fact he has lived in houses full off bar girls and has spent alot off time with prostitutes he seems proud off theses facts.

well in my book that just makes him one thing..............

I lived in brothel the first time when I was 15 years old. I like bar girls. I sailed in most major ocean races as young man. I like sailing.

Sailing and bar girls have a lot in common. They both can be very expensive, sometimes dangerous and both can be very satisfying. I guess I have never read your book.

[StreetCowboy]

I'm a tad confused by what constitutes an expat in the context of this thread. Those of us who choose/are forced to work abroad may be working anywhere in the world right? Basing ourselves in Thailand when we are not working. Whether we work on a rig travel around the world on airoplanes for a month or three or indeed return to our countries of origin in search of this is any of this important?

The common theme is we spend a large portion of our time in Thailand whether we have or are investing in the country or simply choose to enjoy ourselves who is more expat?....someone who has lived in Thailand for a year or one who has spent 6 months a year for the last 20 years.....over to you....

The term, expat, has seemingly negative and desperate undertones.

What's the difference between an expat and an immigrant?

Or an itenerant, or a migrant worker, come to that?

SC

[mark45y]

what a load off rubbish maybe a person that has been here for 5 years and spends all his time drinking in bars with ladies of the night might have little knowledge off thailand but some people are quick and willing learners and would have a good knowledge within this time. it is also to do with experiences as you learn from your experiences.

Marky thinks he is some kind of big shot and in his mind he has bedded 1000's of girls and that makes him the expert here. Just read in his other gems of posts. He thinks everyone is inferior to him and his intellect.

I just think he is real insecure and rather have that people respect him for time spend here then to judge him on his input and ideas. Maybe he has been here too long and likes the Thai system where age and seniority is everything and knowledge is only second.

Boy do you have that right. I just love the age and seniority system. It may seem odd to you now but when you get old it is a real benefit. People give me their seats on busses and ask my advice on the oddest things. I go to parties and my Thai family assigns two good looking uni girls to watch over me, make sure I get enough to eat and drink and don’t trip over anything.

Why do you think all the old guys come here? This isn’t news to you is it?

Old guys have it made in Thailand and you aren’t going to change that in my lifetime. 555.

[taninthai]

8>< -- SNIP NESTED QUOTES DELETED ><8

i did notice in a few off his posts he brings up the fact .....

well in my book that just makes him one thing..............

A victim of prejudice and stereotyped bigotry?

I dread to think where I appear in your book, but I bet I've been stereotyped as well.

Personally, I think it is better to avoid prejudice and tolerate other people's pecaddillos and shortcomings as best that we can, regardless of where they come from or where they live.

Is yours a big book? Mine is a little black one...

SC

taninthai

no prejudice or stereotyping just dont think its anything to boast about, rather than tolerate there pecaddilos (whatever that is) and shortcomings i rather try to avoid this type altogether...

i cant actually find my book at the moment....lol

Edited August 3, 2010 by taninthai

[zzaa09]

I'm a tad confused by what constitutes an expat in the context of this thread. Those of us who choose/are forced to work abroad may be working anywhere in the world right? Basing ourselves in Thailand when we are not working. Whether we work on a rig travel around the world on airoplanes for a month or three or indeed return to our countries of origin in search of this is any of this important?

The common theme is we spend a large portion of our time in Thailand whether we have or are investing in the country or simply choose to enjoy ourselves who is more expat?....someone who has lived in Thailand for a year or one who has spent 6 months a year for the last 20 years.....over to you....

The term, expat, has seemingly negative and desperate undertones.

What's the difference between an expat and an immigrant?

Or an itenerant, or a migrant worker, come to that?

SC

Language. Semantics. Interesting to note how we might view the brown-skinned third worlder that has no intentions of 'settling' in said host country - and will return to their homeland in time. Their referred to as immigrants, less expats. But, when such lifestyles are applied to the much worthy and lofty Euro-type, the 'expatriate' will be naturally in order.

[StreetCowboy]

8>< NESTED QUOTES DELETED ><8

What's the difference between an expat and an immigrant?

Or an itenerant, or a migrant worker, come to that?

SC

Language. Semantics. Interesting to note how we might view the brown-skinned third worlder that has no intentions of 'settling' in said host country - and will return to their homeland in time. Their referred to as immigrants, less expats. But, when such lifestyles are applied to the much worthy and lofty Euro-type, the 'expatriate' will be naturally in order.

The chap in the Original Post who intended to die in the boondocks sounded like an immigrant, not an expat - similar to the many expat grocers I know of back in the old country, or the immigrant farm-owners in Southern Africa; unlike the expat freelance nightclub hostesses I meet in HK, or the expats working on construction sites in Dubai - all right, not so many of those now... I wondered if it related to your claimed nationality, but would that mean that ghettos were full of expats instead of immigrants? Maybe it relates to an intention to return to your 'home country', but that makes the fella in the boondocks an immigrant, same as the crumblies on the Algarve.

So I suppose the difference between an expat and an immigrant or migrant is the nature of the prejudices that we hope to engender against them.

Fair enough. I've made very few close aborignal friends this last fifteen years or so

SC

[thepanicandthevomit]

I am not suggesting Thai Visa prevent people from expressing their opinions but I do think that people who have not lived here for at least 5 years have little knowledge of Thailand, its people and customs. 10 or 20 years I imagine people begin to get a real feel for the country and culture.

I don't disagree with you, but I do find myself wondering why? Why should thailand be so unfathomable to westerners? Is Japanese society so impenetrable? Korean? Vietnamese? Are east and west fundamentally incompatible? I tend to favour the theory that we know as much about their society as they let us know. Why, I don't know.

What never ceases to amaze me about thais is how they all seem to know what is expected of them without a word being spoken. It can take me a week's work to convey my meaning to some of my dimwitted british chums, but thais as a group seem to know when to help/run/leave/fight etc instantly, and without instruction. Their non verbal communication skills are far superior to ours.

[endure]

If the forum wanted it could record the ip adress a post was made from and that could be linked to a location that could be displayed next to a post. That would make things clear.

Unless you're using a proxy or a VPN...

[canuckamuck]

Real wisdom can be applied to all cultures, and some guys have it and some guys never will. That being said, the longer you are somewhere the more street smarts you should acquire. But if you limit your Thai experience to a specific area or people group, don't pretend you know all things Thai. If you are here for the carnality then your likely not an expert on the deep south, refugees, cassava, umbrella painting, or Black Lahu marriage rites in Mae Hong Song.

But I don't care where a poster is posting from or even if he lies about it. They quickly display their ignorance when they are out of their depth.

[GuestHouse]

The comparison is TV and the Farang population in general – ie TV and the Farang you might meet in the street, the bar, in the queue at the bank or at work.

There is an obvious difference – Someone you meet face to face cannot hide their own persona – The statements they make and claims they make are immediately open for interpretation and challenge. The classic being Thai language ability. Claiming fluency on TV cannot be challenged, claiming fluency face to face is easily put to the test. So too of many other claims made here on TV.

What that boils down to is the only thing you can say about TV posters with any degree of certainty is 'they can write', but don't take that as evidence that they can read.

Every other claim or statement made here on TV, like any other anonymous forum ought to be regarded with a measure of scepticism.

This anonymity has another impact too. Views and comments passed here on TV are made by people who to a very large extent can do so with anonymity, they can hide behind an Username and the rules governing posting personal details – The result is a degree of hubris that I doubt many members would ‘enjoy’ taking part in during a face to face discussion, and for many members a degree of spitefulness that I’m quite certain they would not dare express face to face.

What TV does provide, and what it gives members is a voice on matters relating to life in Thailand – Regardless of how long the member has been in Thailand, or if they are actually in Thailand – TV offers a platform to express an opinion.

Farangs in general (the comparison in the OP is drawing) do not have this opportunity to express their views – Letters to the press excepted, and there note the similarities to concerns and views expressed.

But of course what TV also has is members who believe they shall dictate what is allowed and not allowed to be said – There’s little enough chance for Farangs to express their views and yet there are many who would gladly restrict the options further.

Which comes back to being able to write, not being evidence of an ability to read. The forum rules dictate what can and cannot be said. Not the sensibilities of members who feel they have the right to do so.

And come to think of it, I've not spotted a rule that says one must be in Thailand to express an opinion here on TV.

Edited August 4, 2010 by GuestHouse