Are Thai Companies

[ignis]

This has gone off track…

As I said 2 different Classifieds were offering a German to Thai translation.. Both with different names one was very German; both adverts were in both English and German: I replied to both in English and German… Never received a reply….

Another was someone that gave his email address in one of the Motorbike Topics on here in English, saying his family owned a Business in BKK. Again weeks have gone by and Never received a reply

The others were Thai Companies with their website in English, There product looked interesting, they supplied Thailand + Asia + Europe + USA, 2 of the website state they have customers in UK + USA and showed photo’s of their product being ridden in the UK and the USA with comments from the owners in English about the bike and the Thai Company..

Both I have sent 3 emails over the past 2 months, 2x via gmail.com and 1 x thia.co.th.. never a reply…. So they are uninterested in doing business ? Just think trying to contact them if you have a problem/fault…………… So easy to spend the 70,000 baht at Honda or at Tiger both easy to contact…..

Sure if a website is in Thai and I have translated it to English then I get a Thai to phone or email them….

ALL the above were clear that English was spoken..

[thomo]

ALL the above were clear that English was spoken..

It probably is...

Just not by the minions who deal with the company emails and basic enquiries.

Their job is to look pretty in their uniforms, smile, do 60 hours a week for 7k a month, and think vacant thoughts that don't involve thinking.

Edited August 6, 2010 by thomo

[Chunky1]

They also prepare ice cold nam longan for you, if it's a classy business like Honda Sukhumwit,

[thomo]

They also prepare ice cold nam longan for you,

Quite lovely innit.

I could literally wait around in business receptions with a few prettied up lithe uniforms serving me with smiles and lovliness all day.

God/Buddha bless Thailand.

Just don't expect any sort of competence. Or emails returned.

[Deeral]

To suggest that Thailand won't change is without any basis in what's actually happening - Thailand is changing, it HAS to change and develop. A lot of the "old thinking " will have Retired from these businesses in the next decade or so.

All younger Thais learn English, Chinese etc and are much more aware of how to conduct business internationally - this is much more of a step for say US or Europe who have been doing this sort of thing amongst themselves for centuries.

Training in language of business is carried out almost universally in Thailand and changes are happening. In the mean time the situation is not very good but the constant discussion and pressure from those outsiders involved in Thai business - and there are a lot f expats etc working here - will bring about change.

Hypothetically, what if - deep down - the Thais don't really care if they keep up with the siwilai standard that has been set upon them. Things {here} would still get done, life would go on, smiles would still persist. Without the ideals attaching themselves to a madhatter world. All this could could easily run right by and they probably wouldn't shed a tear nor gather angst. "Siwilai" isn't all what it is cracked up to be.

I'mvery surprised at your hypothesis.

Anyonewho has studied history knows that no society is ever static. Sowhatever happens to Thailand it won't remain the same for better OR worse.

Secondly- the idea of "siwilai" was essentially an idea by the kings andruling classes of Siam to impose some aspects of Western"civilisation" on Thai society from the top down – this is precisely the attitude that has lead to the inequalities in thaisociety. The concept of "siwilai if it still exists is/was a toolof the elite not the Thai people.

Whenit comes to rule of law effective constitution relative freedom fromcorruption, many countries achieve this and are not exactly the same– if the people of thailand are suitably empowered there no reasonwhy they should not develop a stable uniquely Thai society.

Atpresent this is not the case.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Deeral

[zzaa09]

To suggest that Thailand won't change is without any basis in what's actually happening - Thailand is changing, it HAS to change and develop. A lot of the "old thinking " will have Retired from these businesses in the next decade or so.

All younger Thais learn English, Chinese etc and are much more aware of how to conduct business internationally - this is much more of a step for say US or Europe who have been doing this sort of thing amongst themselves for centuries.

Training in language of business is carried out almost universally in Thailand and changes are happening. In the mean time the situation is not very good but the constant discussion and pressure from those outsiders involved in Thai business - and there are a lot f expats etc working here - will bring about change.

Hypothetically, what if - deep down - the Thais don't really care if they keep up with the siwilai standard that has been set upon them. Things {here} would still get done, life would go on, smiles would still persist. Without the ideals attaching themselves to a madhatter world. All this could could easily run right by and they probably wouldn't shed a tear nor gather angst. "Siwilai" isn't all what it is cracked up to be.

I'mvery surprised at your hypothesis.

Anyonewho has studied history knows that no society is ever static. Sowhatever happens to Thailand it won't remain the same for better OR worse.

Secondly- the idea of "siwilai" was essentially an idea by the kings andruling classes of Siam to impose some aspects of Western"civilisation" on Thai society from the top down – this is precisely the attitude that has lead to the inequalities in thaisociety. The concept of "siwilai if it still exists is/was a toolof the elite not the Thai people.

Whenit comes to rule of law effective constitution relative freedom fromcorruption, many countries achieve this and are not exactly the same– if the people of thailand are suitably empowered there no reasonwhy they should not develop a stable uniquely Thai society.

Atpresent this is not the case.

"Anyone who has studied history" .....[sic] I guess that would depend on the culturally-centred historiography that one imbibes, doesn't it? For, there isn't a standard nor an absolute as to one's perspective and interpretation as applied to historic curiosities. Surely, an intelligent being would dismiss using cultural superlatives and comparatives as a broader model.

[Deeral]

To suggest that Thailand won't change is without any basis in what's actually happening - Thailand is changing, it HAS to change and develop. A lot of the "old thinking " will have Retired from these businesses in the next decade or so.

All younger Thais learn English, Chinese etc and are much more aware of how to conduct business internationally - this is much more of a step for say US or Europe who have been doing this sort of thing amongst themselves for centuries.

Training in language of business is carried out almost universally in Thailand and changes are happening. In the mean time the situation is not very good but the constant discussion and pressure from those outsiders involved in Thai business - and there are a lot f expats etc working here - will bring about change.

Hypothetically, what if - deep down - the Thais don't really care if they keep up with the siwilai standard that has been set upon them. Things {here} would still get done, life would go on, smiles would still persist. Without the ideals attaching themselves to a madhatter world. All this could could easily run right by and they probably wouldn't shed a tear nor gather angst. "Siwilai" isn't all what it is cracked up to be.

I'mvery surprised at your hypothesis.

Anyonewho has studied history knows that no society is ever static. Sowhatever happens to Thailand it won't remain the same for better OR worse.

Secondly- the idea of "siwilai" was essentially an idea by the kings andruling classes of Siam to impose some aspects of Western"civilisation" on Thai society from the top down – this is precisely the attitude that has lead to the inequalities in thaisociety. The concept of "siwilai if it still exists is/was a toolof the elite not the Thai people.

Whenit comes to rule of law effective constitution relative freedom fromcorruption, many countries achieve this and are not exactly the same– if the people of thailand are suitably empowered there no reasonwhy they should not develop a stable uniquely Thai society.

Atpresent this is not the case.

"Anyone who has studied history" .....[sic] I guess that would depend on the culturally-centred historiography that one imbibes, doesn't it? For, there isn't a standard nor an absolute as to one's perspective and interpretation as applied to historic curiosities. Surely, an intelligent being would dismiss using cultural superlatives and comparatives as a broader model.

Actually no - study of history can be quite objective......

OK - given that your approach clearly does , I'm assuming that you are suggesting I'm using "cultural superlatives and comparatives as a broader model" - please explain.

[Fookhaht]

It's not only in business....the problem is pervasive among nearly all institutions (especially gov't.). I work in a university of 35,000 students/1,500 faculty. The only way to get anything done is by phone or in person. Virtually none of the faculties/departments/service units answer their emails--especially the web master of the school's websites! And yet the school widely advertises itself as being on the cutting edge of technology. Form without substance. Farangs, learn to get things done the Thai way.

[Deeral]

It's not only in business....the problem is pervasive among nearly all institutions (especially gov't.). I work in a university of 35,000 students/1,500 faculty. The only way to get anything done is by phone or in person. Virtually none of the faculties/departments/service units answer their emails--especially the web master of the school's websites! And yet the school widely advertises itself as being on the cutting edge of technology. Form without substance. Farangs, learn to get things done the Thai way.

Yes - I agree it's all pervasive - having worked in business and academia and govt departments you can see the most appalling examples of people who either can't do their job or don't actually have a job but still get a salary because no-one dares tell them to go.........

however the repeated use of the phrase "The Thai WAY" - is basically nonsense - it is just a catch-all apology for rampant incompetence or graft - to suggest this might be the "Thai WAY" of doing things is nonsense.

You can prepare yourself for the inevitable short comings in Thai working life and to some extent avoid them, but to justify them as the "Thai Way" is to suggest that Thailand is a nation of lying, procrastinating incompetents - and I seriously doubt that - I think the problem lies in the monkeys on Thailand's back CORRUPTION and NEPOTISM......they need to be shaken off!

[Fookhaht]

......they need to be shaken off!

And just who will do that?

[Deeral]

......they need to be shaken off!

And just who will do that?

I think that's rather a glib question but I'll give you a few examples anyway.

Basically those who wish to do business in Thailand , those Thais who wish to do business outside Thailand, any University that wants it's qualifications accredited outside Thailand in fact just about every vested interest in the Thai economy can benefit from a change.

Chinese, Japanese Korean European and UDS interests are all benefitted in the long run by a more stable and efficient Thai economy.

THese changes are seen in the way companies import skills in the form of foreign trainers etc and gradually change from fully foreign run to indigenous run operations - see Toyota.

A glance at the political situation in thailand will tell you that there is quite a struggle going on at present for "control" of the country - it might be simplistically viewed as "elite" versus the "masses" - but whatever way you look at it it is a struggle to change Thailand - even the most conservative realise that status quo is not an option.

attempts at isolation form the world don't work - (Cambodia, N. Korea etc) so whatever happens Thailand will have to engage the world - notably both China AND the West - it won't do this without change and most people in Thailand are aware of this especially after the economic troubles of the West which quickly and directly affected many Thai families on a personal level.

[Deeral]

<br>

<br>......they need to be shaken off!<br>

<br>And just who will do that?<br>

<br><br>I

think that's rather a glib question but I'll give you a few examples anyway.

Both Thais and foreigners.

Basically those who wish to do business in Thailand , those Thais who wish to do business outside Thailand, any University that wants it's qualifications accredited outside Thailand in fact just about every vested interest in the Thai economy can benefit from a change.

Chinese, Japanese Korean European and UDS interests are all benefitted in the long run by a more stable and efficient Thai economy.

These changes are seen in the way companies import skills in the form of foreign trainers etc and gradually change from fully foreign run to indigenous run operations - see Toyota.

The Thai people in general - A glance at the political situation in thailand will tell you that there is quite a struggle going on at present for "control" of the country - it might be simplistically viewed as "elite" versus the "masses" - but whatever way you look at it it is a struggle to change Thailand - even the most conservative realise that status quo is not an option.

Attempts at isolation form the world don't work - (Cambodia, N. Korea etc) so whatever happens Thailand will have to engage the world - notably both China AND the West - it won't do this without change and most people in Thailand are aware of this especially after the economic troubles of the West which quickly and directly affected many Thai families on a personal level.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Deeral

[Mercury]

I wanted to buy some industrial machinery. Initial cost was around 1.2m baht and projected servicing and additional machinery (50% chance of purchase) was a total of around 3.5m. Now this was a western company with Thai outlets etc. I was passed to the Thai people from the western company and that was it. No more contact, even after the intervention of the western company. Eventually I told the western company what a shambles their Thai partners were and to be honest, they did not back their partners. I think that speak volumes.

[Fookhaht]

......they need to be shaken off!

And just who will do that?

I think that's rather a glib question but I'll give you a few examples anyway.

Basically those who wish to do business in Thailand , those Thais who wish to do business outside Thailand, any University that wants it's qualifications accredited outside Thailand in fact just about every vested interest in the Thai economy can benefit from a change.

Chinese, Japanese Korean European and UDS interests are all benefitted in the long run by a more stable and efficient Thai economy.

THese changes are seen in the way companies import skills in the form of foreign trainers etc and gradually change from fully foreign run to indigenous run operations - see Toyota.

A glance at the political situation in thailand will tell you that there is quite a struggle going on at present for "control" of the country - it might be simplistically viewed as "elite" versus the "masses" - but whatever way you look at it it is a struggle to change Thailand - even the most conservative realise that status quo is not an option.

attempts at isolation form the world don't work - (Cambodia, N. Korea etc) so whatever happens Thailand will have to engage the world - notably both China AND the West - it won't do this without change and most people in Thailand are aware of this especially after the economic troubles of the West which quickly and directly affected many Thai families on a personal level.

No, it was a serious question, and you provided a serious/thoughtful answer.

Thank you.

[thomo]

Eventually I told the western company what a shambles their Thai partners were and to be honest, they did not back their partners. I think that speak volumes.

Yup, Thailand is for fun and laughs. And man is great for those.

Anything serious do elsewhere. You'll only end up complaining on internet forums.

[mark45y]

<br>

<br>......they need to be shaken off!<br>

<br>And just who will do that?<br>

<br><br>I

think that's rather a glib question but I'll give you a few examples anyway.

Both Thais and foreigners.

Basically those who wish to do business in Thailand , those Thais who wish to do business outside Thailand, any University that wants it's qualifications accredited outside Thailand in fact just about every vested interest in the Thai economy can benefit from a change.

Chinese, Japanese Korean European and UDS interests are all benefitted in the long run by a more stable and efficient Thai economy.

These changes are seen in the way companies import skills in the form of foreign trainers etc and gradually change from fully foreign run to indigenous run operations - see Toyota.

The Thai people in general - A glance at the political situation in thailand will tell you that there is quite a struggle going on at present for "control" of the country - it might be simplistically viewed as "elite" versus the "masses" - but whatever way you look at it it is a struggle to change Thailand - even the most conservative realise that status quo is not an option.

Attempts at isolation form the world don't work - (Cambodia, N. Korea etc) so whatever happens Thailand will have to engage the world - notably both China AND the West - it won't do this without change and most people in Thailand are aware of this especially after the economic troubles of the West which quickly and directly affected many Thai families on a personal level.

Yes everyone knows Change is immanent except the 300 pound gorilla in the corner of the room.

[zzaa09]

<br>

<br>......they need to be shaken off!<br>

<br>And just who will do that?<br>

<br><br>I

think that's rather a glib question but I'll give you a few examples anyway.

Both Thais and foreigners.

Basically those who wish to do business in Thailand , those Thais who wish to do business outside Thailand, any University that wants it's qualifications accredited outside Thailand in fact just about every vested interest in the Thai economy can benefit from a change.

Chinese, Japanese Korean European and UDS interests are all benefitted in the long run by a more stable and efficient Thai economy.

These changes are seen in the way companies import skills in the form of foreign trainers etc and gradually change from fully foreign run to indigenous run operations - see Toyota.

The Thai people in general - A glance at the political situation in thailand will tell you that there is quite a struggle going on at present for "control" of the country - it might be simplistically viewed as "elite" versus the "masses" - but whatever way you look at it it is a struggle to change Thailand - even the most conservative realise that status quo is not an option.

Attempts at isolation form the world don't work - (Cambodia, N. Korea etc) so whatever happens Thailand will have to engage the world - notably both China AND the West - it won't do this without change and most people in Thailand are aware of this especially after the economic troubles of the West which quickly and directly affected many Thai families on a personal level.

Yes everyone knows Change is immanent except the 300 pound gorilla in the corner of the room.

Change for whom? And who benefits?

[Deeral]

Yes everyone knows Change is immanent except the 300 pound gorilla in the corner of the room.

Change for whom? And who benefits?

I suppose the reference to the gorilla is intended as some quasi-satyrical comment – I'm afraid it's lost on me......................

"Change for whom and who benefits" - I'd have thought that this point hasbeen made.....as I mentioned before how the country changes will depend on the outcomes of the current political unrest....I'd have thought that was self-evident....and in many parts of Thai society the will to change is positive. Don't forget the actual people who have been running the country since the WW2 are old and their numbers dwindling; they will not be around – their succession in both business and politics by similar thinkers is not guaranteed

The truth is that economies in this region are outperforming the West onpercentage growth - well they HAVE to they are still developing - soone can expect good figures but what is happening underneath that maybe a different matter - countries like Thailand need to developinfrastructure and legal, judicial and governmental institutions toprovide a stable platform for this - Thailand seems to have an elitethat are benefitting from short-term economic gains but are obliviousto the future needs of the nation preferring to deal with matters onan ad hoc "nape-of-the-neck" basis.

These improvements in the Asian economies and subsequent improvements inthe standards of living, education etc will inevitably lead to agrowth of a middle class - a bourgeoisie - these people in general are noted for their desire to have a say in the way their country is run - this is the underlying trend in many S.E. Asian countries andThailand is no exception. This is, in my opinion being currentlyreflected in Thai business and politics, both "the people' and business want change, in the end graft, corruption and nepotism,cripples an economy and must be eradicated. This will not happen as a top-down decree, but has to come from an empowered populous through a stable democratic system.

Edited August 8, 2010 by Deeral

[thomo]

a stable democratic system.

Doesn't this involve everyone being equal?

A slight issue with Thais. Will they still be able to wai eachother. Who'll wai first?

It's enough to give ya headache.

[zzaa09]

Yes everyone knows Change is immanent except the 300 pound gorilla in the corner of the room.

Change for whom? And who benefits?

I suppose the reference to the gorilla is intended as some quasi-satyrical comment – I'm afraid it's lost on me......................

"Change for whom and who benefits" - I'd have thought that this point hasbeen made.....as I mentioned before how the country changes will depend on the outcomes of the current political unrest....I'd have thought that was self-evident....and in many parts of Thai society the will to change is positive. Don't forget the actual people who have been running the country since the WW2 are old and their numbers dwindling; they will not be around – their succession in both business and politics by similar thinkers is not guaranteed

The truth is that economies in this region are outperforming the West onpercentage growth - well they HAVE to they are still developing - soone can expect good figures but what is happening underneath that maybe a different matter - countries like Thailand need to developinfrastructure and legal, judicial and governmental institutions toprovide a stable platform for this - Thailand seems to have an elitethat are benefitting from short-term economic gains but are obliviousto the future needs of the nation preferring to deal with matters onan ad hoc "nape-of-the-neck" basis.

These improvements in the Asian economies and subsequent improvements inthe standards of living, education etc will inevitably lead to agrowth of a middle class - a bourgeoisie - these people in general are noted for their desire to have a say in the way their country is run - this is the underlying trend in many S.E. Asian countries andThailand is no exception. This is, in my opinion being currentlyreflected in Thai business and politics, both "the people' and business want change, in the end graft, corruption and nepotism,cripples an economy and must be eradicated. This will not happen as a top-down decree, but has to come from an empowered populous through a stable democratic system.

You miss a lot - completely. Amazing.

[mark45y]

You might want to contrast the economic changes in China with Singapore. Singapore was changed by a top down decree. China was changed by a bottom up revolution.

I would rather the Singapore model for Thailand and the social structure is in place for such a change but there are no males on the horizon who look likely to make the change.

[Deeral]

You might want to contrast the economic changes in China with Singapore. Singapore was changed by a top down decree. China was changed by a bottom up revolution.

I would rather the Singapore model for Thailand and the social structure is in place for such a change but there are no males on the horizon who look likely to make the change.

quite inaccurate comments - flies in the face of history and what is happening now. I really shouldn't have to point this out - this is high-school stuff.It's also a mistake to think that one country can be a "model" for another.

Firstly whatever spin you may put on the communist revolution it lead to a "top-down" state in China and it still is - you also make the assumption that all is OK in china. Don't be mislead by taking solely the growth figures as your guide. (I also mentioned that there is a bourgeoning bourgeoisie - this applies to China too)

Singapore is a city state and is at present engaged in Liberalising their laws etc as they openly admit that the middle class they have created is now gradually taking over. Singapore started with a good compact infrastructure and was a small state, the rulers who set this place up are being replaced by a different set of values - they won't be very left wing but they are NOT thew same as the original governing powers.

coda.

If you want to make personal observations - and they only have a very limited perspective - I find Singapore a rather creepy or freaky place - too clean and ultra-boring - but the place has changed even over the last 5 or 10 years.

however di anyone go there in the late 70s? - some aspects were like Thailand then

"but there are no males on the horizon" - why "males"?

Edited August 8, 2010 by Deeral

[Deeral]

[

You miss a lot - completely. Amazing.

zzaa09 -

To state the obvious - so apparently do you.

I must say I'm beginning to wonder whether you have any point to make and appreciate that this is a "chat forum" - I'm certainly not about to write a paper on the development of economics, culture and politics in S.E. Asia for this site.however I will attempt in a few lines to put a general point across.

if you have a point to make or if you care to mention something you think I've missed please try again.

to put it simply "either crap or get off the pan"

[mark45y]

You might want to contrast the economic changes in China with Singapore. Singapore was changed by a top down decree. China was changed by a bottom up revolution.

I would rather the Singapore model for Thailand and the social structure is in place for such a change but there are no males on the horizon who look likely to make the change.

quite inaccurate comments - flies in the face of history and what is happening now. I really shouldn't have to point this out - this is high-school stuff.It's also a mistake to think that one country can be a "model" for another.

Firstly whatever spin you may put on the communist revolution it lead to a "top-down" state in China and it still is - you also make the assumption that all is OK in china. Don't be mislead by taking solely the growth figures as your guide. (I also mentioned that there is a bourgeoning bourgeoisie - this applies to China too)

Singapore is a city state and is at present engaged in Liberalising their laws etc as they openly admit that the middle class they have created is now gradually taking over. Singapore started with a good compact infrastructure and was a small state, the rulers who set this place up are being replaced by a different set of values - they won't be very left wing but they are NOT thew same as the original governing powers.

coda.

If you want to make personal observations - and they only have a very limited perspective - I find Singapore a rather creepy or freaky place - too clean and ultra-boring - but the place has changed even over the last 5 or 10 years.

however di anyone go there in the late 70s? - some aspects were like Thailand then

"but there are no males on the horizon" - why "males"?

Not inaccurate at all. The communist revolution was a peoples revolution that took over the corrupt central government and the many corrupt smaller warlord governments. It united China under one ruler.

I think the mass of people would have not supported Mao if they knew the direction he was going but they did in fact support him against the Chinese National government.

There have been attempts to do the same thing in Thailand.

Singapore was changed by one leader. Not a peoples government or revolution.

I am not saying China or Singapore are examples of democracy. I am saying they took Asian agrarian societies and changed them into modern industrial societies. China did it by revolution and Singapore did it by administration.

I was in Singapore in the 1960’s and there were many similarities with Thailand today.

[Deeral]

Broadly I'd agree - but you realise that has nothing to do with the point I was making?

Edited August 8, 2010 by Deeral

[yellow1red1]

By pandering to their inability to change,

And btw, I'm not entirely sure that when conducting business in a very foreign culture and language, hiring a local to help communication, because you haven't learned the language, is pandering their inability to change.

More like not doing so just ends up with you being very frustrated and bewildered, and left without your business deal, with the Thais none the wiser. Kind of like this thread really. Frustration and bewilderment with the culture/language barrier and how it left you empty handed, and how it doesn't work like in the West.

:jap:

An English language assistant is going to be hired to get through to you. The OP and the Thread is NOT about doing business deals!!! It's about the NOBODY IS HOME, countless websites that Thais have put up. A dozen people have pointed this out to you, but you just keep bragging about how you have a personal assistant. Does your PA also act as your personal SHOPPER?

[thequick7]

^ ^^

Both absolutely correct.

Some people come here and still think they're in Kansas. Learn how to do things the Thai way if you really want to be in business in Thailand.

Get somebody proficient in the local language and culture to deal with the locals.

It really is simple common sense.

Even if you do have someone "proficient in the local language and culture" that is seldom any guarantee that you will get a response from a company, and this is not restricted to just emails... On many occasions with the help of a Thai PA, I have approached a local company regarding doing business, and have been told that they will have somebody attend my premises the next day only for no-one to show up. And if they do show up and you do conduct business, it is up to you to chase them up??

If a company does not respond to an english email when they have a englsih website, they are only doing themselves harm as is shown on this thread. They come off as unproffessional, and will lose potential sales because of it. You only get one first impression. What would be more common sense would be to either advise that they only respond to emails written in Thai, or not have a english language website.

[Deeral]

I think that in many ways US businessmen can find themselves at a disadvantage here if it is their first experience of doing business abroad.

In most other regions people are used to doing business with other cultures languages etc etc, every day of the week - it'e the norm rather than a new experience.

Edited August 8, 2010 by Deeral

[elcent]

so you guys hit the contact us button, you need to reply with a contact us button yourself, or at least have a cam-frog or MSM account. Believe it or not, that's on in the offices all the time(99%), even in the gov.

Edited August 8, 2010 by elcent

[mark45y]

You might want to contrast the economic changes in China with Singapore. Singapore was changed by a top down decree. China was changed by a bottom up revolution.

I would rather the Singapore model for Thailand and the social structure is in place for such a change but there are no males on the horizon who look likely to make the change.

quite inaccurate comments - flies in the face of history and what is happening now. I really shouldn't have to point this out - this is high-school stuff.It's also a mistake to think that one country can be a "model" for another.

Firstly whatever spin you may put on the communist revolution it lead to a "top-down" state in China and it still is - you also make the assumption that all is OK in china. Don't be mislead by taking solely the growth figures as your guide. (I also mentioned that there is a bourgeoning bourgeoisie - this applies to China too)

Singapore is a city state and is at present engaged in Liberalising their laws etc as they openly admit that the middle class they have created is now gradually taking over. Singapore started with a good compact infrastructure and was a small state, the rulers who set this place up are being replaced by a different set of values - they won't be very left wing but they are NOT thew same as the original governing powers.

coda.

If you want to make personal observations - and they only have a very limited perspective - I find Singapore a rather creepy or freaky place - too clean and ultra-boring - but the place has changed even over the last 5 or 10 years.

however di anyone go there in the late 70s? - some aspects were like Thailand then

"but there are no males on the horizon" - why "males"?

Ask anyone who lives in Thailand but don't ask in writing on a net forum.