Farangs Calling Thai'S Racist...

[Berkshire]

I keep seeing farangs calling Thai's "racist" and I'm just wondering if you realize how ignorant you sound. This thread probably won't stop you from using this word, but allow me to explain why I see it as being rather pointless. In fact, your liberal use of this word actually cheapens its true meaning.

We from the west understand the literal meaning of this word because we understand the context in which it has been used. Most Americans will know exactly what this word means. We know what African Americans had to deal with during the days of slavery. And what the Native Americans dealt with when Europeans first arrived. And the Chinese during the early days of the old west. And the Japanese during WWII. The list is endless. These are shameful days in American history and we are not proud of what went on in years past. But what does this word mean to the average Thai?

I can say with certainty that it does not have near the same sort of meaning to the average Thai. Normal Thai's just have not been indoctrinated with western history. They don't know about slavery in America. Or Apartheid in South Africa. Heck, most don't even know about Nazi Germany and what happened to the Jews. Even if they know about it, they don't understand the true horror that went on. You can't blame them. Reading about this sort of stuff as opposed to being immersed in the culture that practiced it is not the same thing. So calling a Thai person a "racist" is pretty close to meaningless.

Racism in Thailand? Perhaps it exists. But honestly, if it does, "farangs" are certainly not the real victims. If anything, discrimination exist more on the class level, rather than race. Thai's treat Japanese and Koreans exactly the same way they treat farangs. Is that racism? It can't be because all Asians are of the same race.

I've been posting on another thread that discussed the use of the word "farang." It's simply a descriptive word, nothing more, nothing less. To the average Thai, the word probably denotes wealth and privilege more than anything else. Yet, some farangs are offended by this term. Perplexing. Farangs will complain about what they consider "racist" policies, but yet, their presence here in Thailand already demonstrates how less racist Thailand is—if you want to use that term—compared to most western countries. Thai's would have a much more difficult time immigrating to the US without mitigating circumstances. I'm sure you all know this. Can a Thai guy just go to America on a retirement visa? I don't think so.

In order for the term "racist" to have any sort of meaningful impact, there has to be an historical context. We know what happened to African Americans during the slavery days, so it's clear that racism is a horrible thing in America. But what sort of discrimination have "farangs" have to deal with in Thailand? Dual pricing? Land ownership? Visa runs? You're comparing that to slavery, lynchings, and mass extermination? I'm sorry, but that doesn't even compute. If it doesn't to me, it certainly wouldn't to the average Thai.

I've met many more truly racist expats in Thailand than racist Thai's. Farangs that really believe that Thai's are racist should seriously consider why they are here. I certainly wouldn't want to live in a place where I'm hated. I think that deep down, farangs that call Thai's racist know that they're not being truthful. They think that if they say it enough, it would shame the Thai's to make a change. Has it worked? Not even a little bit. You may want to reconsider your tactics.

[Jingthing]

I think you are very confused. There are different levels of racism but they are ALL racism. Lynching? Severe. Stereotypical assumptions about you based on your skin color? Mild.

This definition is interesting because it mentions that racism can also include POSITIVE stereotypes based on race such as blacks all dance great or Jews are all smart.

The Merriam-Webster's Dictionary defines racism as a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority or inferiority of a particular racial group, and that it is also the prejudice based on such a belief.

(wiki) Edited August 10, 2010 by Jingthing

[RAZZELL]

What about "Asian" only bars/clubs? No entry to blacks/Indians/Farangs?

What about Thai attitudes to their near neighbours? Not racist?

I think you need to get out more

RAZZ

Edited August 10, 2010 by RAZZELL

[angiud]

Thais racist? I don't know exactly, but IMHO several, or many Thai just tolerate us farangs and some simply don't like us. I cannot say if this is racism or not.

I cannot generalize but after 10 year living here I have an average experience about that.

And I can confirm, again IMHO, that stuff gone worst during the last, say 6 years.

[apetley]

Jingthing beat me too it. Different degrees of racism is still racism.

As for dual pricing and land ownership, one mans racism is another mans xenophobia is anothers discrimination.

And to mention slavery, lynchings and mass extermination as a reason to dismiss calls of modern racism as mere whining is very disingenuous as is saying there has to be an historical context too.

[thaifkrlim]

Racism in Thailand? Perhaps it exists. But honestly, if it does, "farangs" are certainly not the real victims. If anything, discrimination exist more on the class level, rather than race. Thai's treat Japanese and Koreans exactly the same way they treat farangs. Is that racism? It can't be because all Asians are of the same race.

Farangs are the real victims, thais choose to con those of a particular race, from the west, read the forum and see how many people have been cheated swindled ,resources drained up.

Thai treat Japanese and korean differently, it's race preference. because they watch too much korean and jap drama and think they are cute

and all asians are not of the same race.

[DP25]

What about "Asian" only bars/clubs?

Where are these 'Asian only' bars?

[robblok]

Just as an example .. there was an article on pattaya news how bad it was that some conmen were ripping off poor Thais instead of farangs.. Then when the found out that that was not a good thing to say they changed the article.

Or how foreign females marrying thai men get more rights then foreign men marrying thai females. (easier visa rules)

Its hard to deny there is racism here, i can live with it but i will complain about it.

[way2muchcoffee]

What about "Asian" only bars/clubs?

Where are these 'Asian only' bars?

In BKK - Thaniya Plaza, a few around Asoke area, Thong Lor, and scattered around other areas as well.

[Jingthing]

What about "Asian" only bars/clubs?

Where are these 'Asian only' bars?

I am aware of bars catering only to Japanese in Bangkok. I have had the personal experience of being denied entry into a Korean restaurant for racial reasons. Etc. etc. ... There also certainly are Thai oriented clubs that don't welcome westerners, sometimes openly and sometimes with massive double pricing for entry to discourage custom.

[meom]

Where are these 'Asian only' bars?

There's a couple in Soi Thanya before Patpong, some more in Soi-33 etc.

Some other bars ban arabs, others ban indians and the list goes on.

Edited August 10, 2010 by meom

[bonobo]

What about "Asian" only bars/clubs?

Where are these 'Asian only' bars?

Soi Thania has them, I believe, although I have never tried to enter them.  However, on at least half-a-dozen occasions, I have been in the company of from 5 to 10 Thais when we tried to enter some supposed higher-end establishments only to have all of us turned away because of my presence.  I didn't hear it, but evidently one doorman at one club told the rest that if I went back and sat in the car where I belonged, the rest of them would be welcomed in.

[DP25]

Soi Thaniya is not Asian only, it's Japanese only. They're not gonna let a gaggle of Thai or other Asian dudes in either, just like some places in Soi Cowboy won't let in Thai dudes that aren't working there. My Asian friend has been turned away several times because they didn't believe he wasn't Thai. I've never found one bar or club in Thailand that wouldn't let me aside from Soi Thaniya, although they discriminate on how your dressed and other stuff.

[Jimbo]

Its not only in Bangkok where you will find those "Asian" only places. Here in Korat there are several high end karaoke bars which have signs outside stating "Japanese and Korean only"

A Japanese friend of mine told me that they charge like 8000 THB for a bottle of Chivas and I don't know too many regular farangs who would pay that.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Jimbo

[Ulysses G.]

I have said this many times, but as someone who runs a retail business and sees how many Westerners treat Thais, I am very surprised that they are not a lot more "racist" than they are.

Most of them are able to understand that just because some "farangs" are ignorant, insulting loud-mouths, that does not mean that we all are. IMHO, that shows a lot more tolerance and understanding than many of my fellow Westerners have.

[canuckamuck]

No racism in Thailand, you have to be kidding. You must never have had the occasion to see how Bangkok Thais treat people from Laos, Burma, Cambodia, or even the hill tribes with Thai citizenship. Totally expendable.

Asians in general are shamelessly racist in their attitudes to other nationalities. Class factors in too, but it works out to be the same thing.

[thepanicandthevomit]

Would farang be welcome in thailand in such large numbers if they were rich and we poor?

[Ulysses G.]

Would farang be welcome in thailand in such large numbers if they were rich and we poor?

Maybe. There are a lot of sh*t jobs that they rather have someone else do.

[MAJIC]

No Racism in Thailand?

Yea right, and there is no

Prostitution

Gambling,

or Scams,either.

Edited August 10, 2010 by MAJIC

[David9988]

Good post OP but it's Thais not Thai's.

[David9988]

What about "Asian" only bars/clubs?

Where are these 'Asian only' bars?

Soi Thania has them, I believe, although I have never tried to enter them. However, on at least half-a-dozen occasions, I have been in the company of from 5 to 10 Thais when we tried to enter some supposed higher-end establishments only to have all of us turned away because of my presence. I didn't hear it, but evidently one doorman at one club told the rest that if I went back and sat in the car where I belonged, the rest of them would be welcomed in.

Can you PM me the names of these 6 places? Thanks.

[David9988]

No racism in Thailand, you have to be kidding. You must never have had the occasion to see how Bangkok Thais treat people from Laos, Burma, Cambodia, or even the hill tribes with Thai citizenship. Totally expendable.

Asians in general are shamelessly racist in their attitudes to other nationalities. Class factors in too, but it works out to be the same thing.

Ethnicity, not race, but discrimination exists nonetheless.

[yogi100]

'Racism' is a word thrown around by the liberal politicians intended to stifle any objection to our governenments' devotion to a global multicultural Utopia. It's never worked throughout history and is not working now. Human nature dictates that we stick with our own kind and nothing can alter that fact. Falangs only come to Pattaya for the cheap sex with young women not because they wish to embrace Thai culture. We don't go in Thai bars and Thais don't go to Falang hangouts.

[thepanicandthevomit]

'Racism' is a word thrown around by the liberal politicians intended to stifle any objection to our governenments' devotion to a global multicultural Utopia. It's never worked throughout history and is not working now. Human nature dictates that we stick with our own kind and nothing can alter that fact. Falangs only come to Pattaya for the cheap sex with young women not because they wish to embrace Thai culture. We don't go in Thai bars and Thais don't go to Falang hangouts.

Precisely. The word 'stifle' is very apt in these parts too. How ironic a word like 'polite' is used as a mechanism for stifling free speech.

The R word literally has no meaning any more.

[thepanicandthevomit]

What about "Asian" only bars/clubs?

Where are these 'Asian only' bars?

Soi Thania has them, I believe, although I have never tried to enter them. However, on at least half-a-dozen occasions, I have been in the company of from 5 to 10 Thais when we tried to enter some supposed higher-end establishments only to have all of us turned away because of my presence. I didn't hear it, but evidently one doorman at one club told the rest that if I went back and sat in the car where I belonged, the rest of them would be welcomed in.

Can you PM me the names of these 6 places? Thanks.

Big fan of Sir Humpy, are we?

[Beetlejuice]

Would farang be welcome in thailand in such large numbers if they were rich and we poor?

Poor is not racist, does not distinguish between the sexes and has no religious partiality. If you have no money the door is slammed in your face, there are no exceptions.

Have never known Thais to be racist, except for my Thai neighbour who hates Scots people.

I asked him why? He said what other nation would be proud of it`s men that wear no underwear and short skirts with a big furry dangly thing at the front.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Beetlejuice

[Groongthep]

'Racism' is a word thrown around by the liberal politicians intended to stifle any objection to our governenments' devotion to a global multicultural Utopia. It's never worked throughout history and is not working now. Human nature dictates that we stick with our own kind and nothing can alter that fact. Falangs only come to Pattaya for the cheap sex with young women not because they wish to embrace Thai culture. We don't go in Thai bars and Thais don't go to Falang hangouts.

So it is a "fact" that human nature dictates we stick with our own kind huh? The many millions of happily married interracial couples around the world would seem to be at odds with that fact. It is probably better that you stick with your own kind though; whatever kind that is.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Groongthep

[GuestHouse]

The OP's thesis is that an individual cannot be racist if s/he has not been 'indoctrinated with western history' or s/he doesn't know what racism is.

OK here's a test.

Ask every Thai person you know what you should do if while out walking you come across an Indian walking towards you and a Snake slithering along the path.

When you've gathered a few dozen answers come back and tell us there is no racism in Thailand.

[yogi100]

'Racism' is a word thrown around by the liberal politicians intended to stifle any objection to our governenments' devotion to a global multicultural Utopia. It's never worked throughout history and is not working now. Human nature dictates that we stick with our own kind and nothing can alter that fact. Falangs only come to Pattaya for the cheap sex with young women not because they wish to embrace Thai culture. We don't go in Thai bars and Thais don't go to Falang hangouts.

So it is a "fact" that human nature dictates we stick with our own kind huh? The many millions of happily married interracial couples around the world would seem to be at odds with that fact. It is probably better that you stick with your own kind though; whatever kind that is.

Where are these 'many millions of happily married interracial couples around the world' then? The US, Europe, China, India, Russia, the Middle East, Outer Mongolia? I live in London, probably the most multicultural city in Europe and possibly the world. There are approximately 130 different languages in use in the Metropolis and you might see a handful of mixed marriages, very few of which endure. Most people I've seen appear to select their matrimonial partners from within their own ethnic group.

And whenever I feel the need of your advice regarding with whom I should associate with I'll let you know.

[chantorn]

'Racism'?

I am not wasting my time here.