Farangs Calling Thai'S Racist...

[electau]

What is mistaken for "racism" is actually, Nationalism. Thais are proud of their language and culture.

What is mistaken again for "racism" is cultural differences.

Discrimination, is another matter altogether, it can be positive or negative, and is an individuals right, and a right of any government.

　

[Geekfreaklover]

Just a couple of incidents in the last couple of weeks.

An English friend of mine is third generation Indian, grew up in London. He applied for a job teaching at a high school here in Thailand. He was offered the job, signed the contract with the teaching agency, but when he turned up for his first day of work the school looked at him and realized they had made a mistake. He was the wrong colour and was told the position was no longer available (for him).

A collegue went to South Africa to marry his South African wife. A Thai collegue overheard us talking about it and looked arlarmed, 'You mean, his wife is BLACK!', she said.

Now both incidents were to my mind racist remarks / actions taken by educated Thais. But I must acknowledge what the OP was trying to say - there is a deep level of ignorance of world history at play. The general Thai mentality is just simply "black is bad, haha hehe".

[zzaa09]

I've met many more truly racist expats in Thailand than racist Thai's. Farangs that really believe that Thai's are racist should seriously consider why they are here. I certainly wouldn't want to live in a place where I'm hated. I think that deep down, farangs that call Thai's racist know that they're not being truthful. They think that if they say it enough, it would shame the Thai's to make a change. Has it worked? Not even a little bit. You may want to reconsider your tactics.

sometime taking ones own advice creates great change

Doubt such self-change would come about. This character trait is most common amongst Westerners residing or traveling within the borders of what they consider uncivilised third-world {non-western} cultures. One needn't be too worldly to view this the world over.

[carmine]

The OP is rather confused and i believe your stupid anti expat posts are probably the result of your own limited success here. If your posts were'nt so monotonous, ill concieved and confused, the fact that they are written in such an arrogant condecsending tone i'd probably find them rather insulting.

There's "possibly" racism here is there? I can think of a number of people of different creed/nationality that might put you straight on that question.

Now, that said, where's the IGNORE button so i too can follow what seems to be becoming a trend in looking to ignore your foolish comments.

[smokie36]

Have never known Thais to be racist, except for my Thai neighbour who hates Scots people.

I asked him why? He said what other nation would be proud of it`s men that wear no underwear and short skirts with a big furry dangly thing at the front.

This is simply racism borne out of ignorance. If your neighbour took the time to visit Scotland his whole mindset would be changed by the experience.

Of course there are racists in Thailand same as in every country there are those who seek to put the indigenous population first......this is how it is and you simply have to accept life in Thailand as a second class member of society.

Of course Thailand is more racist than some Western countries in that even if your kids have been born and raised in Thailand they will never have the same opportunities as Thai kids.....but then they have better opportunities for living in the West.....life aint fair for all I'm afraid!

[David9988]

People are misinterpreting OP's post. He is saying that the level of 'racism' farang experience in Thailand is less than what an off the boat Thai will experience in the West and he is saying that the word 'racism' in the English language has greater negative connotations than 'double pricing' and the other so-called racist practices against farang. I would agree with this.

The way that many farang tourists use Thailand as a place where they don't have to act the way they do at home, it's surprising that the Thai attitude isn't much worse towards us.

[sarahsbloke]

Show me a person who thinks many Thais are not racist, and I will show you someone who can't understand spoken Thai.

example

Asking a Thai man from ChiangMai to help me with my Thai writing

him "who wrote that for you"

me "what do you mean?"

him "person who wrote than not proper Thai, hill tribe"

example

Chatting with a Thai man

him "where do you white men find such ugly girls"

me "what do you mean, she looks good to me"

him "skin too dark, Issan girl very ugly"

Do you know Hill tribe people born in Thailand, families living and born here for generations cannot move freely around the country, not proper Thai

(that's what all those police checkpoints on the roads are for)

You need to get out and interact with more Thai people if you think lots of them aren't racists.

Of course there are many Thais who are not racist as well.

Slavery

Pretty much a thing of the past in the western world, but I can find a few Thai brothels with Laos and Burmese slaves working in them, it still appears to exist in Thailand.

Edited August 11, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[carmine]

Show me a person who thinks many Thais are not racist, and I will show you someone who can't understand spoken Thai.

example

Asking a Thai man from ChiangMai to help me with my Thai writing

him "who wrote that for you"

me "what do you mean?"

him "person who wrote than not proper Thai, hill tribe"

example

Chatting with a Thai man

him "where do white men find such ugly girls"

me "what do you mean, she looks good to me"

him "skin too dark, Issan girl very ugly"

Do you know Hill tribe people born in Thailand, families living and born here for generations cannot move freely around the country, not proper Thai

(that's what all those police checkpoints on the roads are for)

You need to get out and interact with more Thai people if you think lots of them aren't racists.

Did.nt you know there's no such thing as racism here...its cultural:ermm: :lol: :lol:

"WHY IS IT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE RACIST ELEMENTS IN EVERY SOCIETY"

This is not a slur on all Thai people, it's the way of the world.

[teatree]

I would say that most Thais are not really racist but rather just really ignorant.

[kikoman]

Most falangs do not know the reality of living in a land of official government decreed racism , Such as.. USA

Keep fighting the good fight.

You are on the side of the enlightened.

He may be, but if you think the government of the U.S. is "racist" you may need a little therapy.

Look at its history, up until the Equal Rights Amendment /Civil Rights Laws were passed in the 1960s, South Africa are fresher in ones mind.

Show me where in Thailand they have racial separate, toilets, drinking fountains , Lyching was common and certain colored people are denied service in restaurants, hotels etc.

You all do not know what real racism is! Certainly none of that type of racism exist in Thailand!

Berkshire is Right,Period!

Cheers:

Cheers:

[carmine]

Most falangs do not know the reality of living in a land of official government decreed racism , Such as.. USA

Keep fighting the good fight.

You are on the side of the enlightened.

He may be, but if you think the government of the U.S. is "racist" you may need a little therapy.

Look at its history, up until the Equal Rights Amendment /Civil Rights Laws were passed in the 1960s, South Africa are fresher in ones mind.

Show me where in Thailand they have racial separate, toilets, drinking fountains , Lyching was common and certain colored people are denied service in restaurants, hotels etc.

You all do not know what real racism is! Certainly none of that type of racism exist in Thailand!

Berkshire is Right,Period!

Cheers:

Cheers:

You are confusing issues with aparteid, which has nothing to do with whay some of us are dicussing on this thread. I don't doubt the good intention of what you are trying to say but you just don't seem to get it. Period.

[robblok]

Most falangs do not know the reality of living in a land of official government decreed racism , Such as.. USA

Keep fighting the good fight.

You are on the side of the enlightened.

He may be, but if you think the government of the U.S. is "racist" you may need a little therapy.

Look at its history, up until the Equal Rights Amendment /Civil Rights Laws were passed in the 1960s, South Africa are fresher in ones mind.

Show me where in Thailand they have racial separate, toilets, drinking fountains , Lyching was common and certain colored people are denied service in restaurants, hotels etc.

You all do not know what real racism is! Certainly none of that type of racism exist in Thailand!

Berkshire is Right,Period!

Cheers:

Cheers:

Since when can racism only be government condoned ?

Racism is alive and well here in Thailand just look what other posters write here. Does this mean all Thais are racist.. no does it mean there are many racist Thais.. yes.

Are some forms of racism worse then others.. sure.. your examples of the USA and South africa are worse then those in Thailand. But these forms no longer exist there so how can you compare something from the past that does not exist there in that form anymore with something in the future ?

[Berkshire]

People are misinterpreting OP's post. He is saying that the level of 'racism' farang experience in Thailand is less than what an off the boat Thai will experience in the West and he is saying that the word 'racism' in the English language has greater negative connotations than 'double pricing' and the other so-called racist practices against farang. I would agree with this.

The way that many farang tourists use Thailand as a place where they don't have to act the way they do at home, it's surprising that the Thai attitude isn't much worse towards us.

Thank you. This was EXACTLY my point.

[Berkshire]

Have never known Thais to be racist....

Agreed. Not in the same way that racism exists in, say, America. Honestly, racism in America today is still worse than Thailand. Ask any Mexican or Arab American. I would say most African Americans still believe that racism is a problem, even though the elected President is black. It's racism of a more sinister kind, actually.

[Berkshire]

Ask every Thai person you know what you should do if while out walking you come across an Indian walking towards you and a Snake slithering along the path.

I have heard this. Never from a Thai person--always from a farang.

[robblok]

People are misinterpreting OP's post. He is saying that the level of 'racism' farang experience in Thailand is less than what an off the boat Thai will experience in the West and he is saying that the word 'racism' in the English language has greater negative connotations than 'double pricing' and the other so-called racist practices against farang. I would agree with this.

The way that many farang tourists use Thailand as a place where they don't have to act the way they do at home, it's surprising that the Thai attitude isn't much worse towards us.

Thank you. This was EXACTLY my point.

Strange...

My first wife could own land right away when she arrived in Holland also no strange rules about not being able to work. She als was never charged more then a full blooded dutch guy and got all the government support when she wanted to divorce me.

I would say that an off the boat Thai will have an easier time being treated as an equal then an farang here. Were there guys that looked at her as if she was a hooker.. yes there were.. i wont deny that that kind of racism happens and i wont defend it. Was she accepted in my village in Holland.. sure by everyone no problems. Were here daughters ever teased on the basis of being Thai.. never. Did they get the same healthcare and rights as dutch people.. sure. Can the get a Dutch passport now.. sure quite easy actually.

[Jingthing]

I think it is clear the Thai government is officially acting racist towards hill tribe people. To the poster mentioning US lynchings as "common" that is a huge distortion, yes they occurred largely in the southern part of USA (home of the REBELS) but even then they were hardly an everyday occurrence and they have long stopped.

wiki

The Tuskegee Institute has recorded 3,446 lynchings of Blacks and 1,297 lynchings of whites between 1882 and 1968

Don't let the 1960's date mislead, by that time they were very rare. Also note it wasn't only blacks who were lynched.

I agree with the sentiment that racism exists universally,and I dare say in the hearts of all human beings to some degree, whether they admit it or not. It is an evil and it can be resisted with education in a culture supporting tolerance. It manifests its ugly head in many ways everyday, some totally benign, some deadly. Cheers.

Edited August 11, 2010 by Jingthing

[Berkshire]

What are you jabbering on about today? Tactics? What are your tactics? Should I compose a set of tactics before I sit down to surf the Internet?

I'll call a Thai racist if he is racist. I'll call a foreigner racist if he is racist. I've met plenty in equal measures. Ignorance is no excuse for racism either. I don't really know why you feel the need to generalize people based on one quote or point of view. You shouldn't try so hard to shoehorn people into a particular box just because they don't share your viewpoint.

And for those of you that believe multiculturalism doesn't work, it does. It's worked in places all around the world for many years. Deal with it, it's here to stay.

So what is your point, exactly? That everyone is racist in equal measure? So Thais are no more racist than the average farang? Ok, I get it. So why do all these yahoo's keep bringing up this point? As for multiculturalism--agree.

[Berkshire]

Another comment about so called positive racism. That can be hurtful also, surprisingly enough. For example, Asian students in the US are positively stereotyped as being good at science/good at math, etc. How do you think that makes Asians who aren't and want to be oil painters feel? I am sure ANNOYED at the very least.

You're right. If you speak to most Asian Americans, they will tell you that they despise the term "model minority."

[phutoie2]

Ask every Thai person you know what you should do if while out walking you come across an Indian walking towards you and a Snake slithering along the path.

I have heard this. Never from a Thai person--always from a farang.

You must have a very small circle,(if any) of Thai friends.

In this small town of 15 thousand so inhabitants, nearly all would know the answer to that question.

[Berkshire]

Finally, in a perverted way, Thais are racist against themselves by using whitening cream and swallowing whitening pills. How idiotic, if not racist, is it to try to change one's skin color? how spell self mutilation due racial color?

This whole "light skin" business is such a misunderstood concept. First of all, it's a preference thing, not racist tendencies (i.e., beauty, attractiveness). Obviously it's not racial--all Thai's are of the same race regardless of their skin color (can we freakin agree on that??). I've been told that dark skin is viewed exactly the same as obesity in the USA. Are Americans racist against fat people? Wrong term. Do Americans discriminate against fat people? Probably, although at a more subliminal level and more against fat women (it's complicated). Substitute "fat" for "dark skin" and it's very similar. Thai's consider light skin Asians (e.g., Koreans, Chinese, Japanese) to be the most attractive. This preference is more pronounced for men choosing women.

As for "trying to change one's skin color," isn't that sort of like getting a tan? Actually, it's exactly the same. But I'm sure you will all disagree.

[Berkshire]

Strange...

My first wife could own land right away when she arrived in Holland also no strange rules about not being able to work. She als was never charged more then a full blooded dutch guy and got all the government support when she wanted to divorce me.

I would say that an off the boat Thai will have an easier time being treated as an equal then an farang here. Were there guys that looked at her as if she was a hooker.. yes there were.. i wont deny that that kind of racism happens and i wont defend it. Was she accepted in my village in Holland.. sure by everyone no problems. Were here daughters ever teased on the basis of being Thai.. never. Did they get the same healthcare and rights as dutch people.. sure. Can the get a Dutch passport now.. sure quite easy actually.

Firstly, let me repeat my question from my opening piece--can a Thai guy just hop over to America on a retirement visa? The answer is no.

Secondly, most of you are confusing government policy with individual feelings and emotions. The duty of any government, among other things, is to protect the rights of its CITIZENS. If Thai citizens have more rights in Thailand than foreigners, then I'd say that's pretty normal. Just like Americans having more rights in America than non-Americans.

[Jingthing]

Give me a break. There are employment ads here -- LIGHT SKINNED ONLY. If that isn't racism, I'll be a monkey's carbunkle. Thais the same race? Well, it depends on how you define race, but I think it is fair to say that Chinese Thais don't feel they are the same race as Isaan people or Malay type Southern Thais, won't mention Hill Tribe Thais as they usually can't get Thai ID cards.

Edited August 11, 2010 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Firstly, let me repeat my question from my opening piece--can a Thai guy just hop over to America on a retirement visa? The answer is no.

Huh? That's ridiculous! There is no retirement visa available in the USA for anyone. Nothing to do with Thais, race, or nationality. It's a first world thing, most first world countries aren't interested in that kind of migrant.

Next ...

Edited August 11, 2010 by Jingthing

[Berkshire]

Berkshire,

You are so correct in your post !

Most falangs do not know the reality of living in a land of official government decreed racism , Such as South Africa ,USA etc.

Keep fighting the good fight.

You are on the side of the enlightened.

Cheers:

No prob, Kikoman. I like to be ganged-up on by the "mob." Makes it a fair fight...

[Jingthing]

It's not a matter of ganging up, it's a matter of ferreting out the reality here.

[Berkshire]

Firstly, let me repeat my question from my opening piece--can a Thai guy just hop over to America on a retirement visa? The answer is no.

Huh? That's ridiculous! There is no retirement visa available in the USA for anyone. Nothing to do with Thais, race, or nationality. It's a first world thing, most first world countries aren't interested in that kind of migrant.

Next ...

Jeez, JT, that's my freakin point! Or do you only pick out certain things that support your contention? Let's see, Thai's are more racist when it comes to land ownership, but less racist when it comes to immigration from developed countries. Does that make it a wash? C'mon.

[bonobo]

Finally, in a perverted way, Thais are racist against themselves by using whitening cream and swallowing whitening pills. How idiotic, if not racist, is it to try to change one's skin color? how spell self mutilation due racial color?

This whole "light skin" business is such a misunderstood concept.  First of all, it's a preference thing, not racist tendencies (i.e., beauty, attractiveness).  Obviously it's not racial--all Thai's are of the same race regardless of their skin color (can we freakin agree on that??).  I've been told that dark skin is viewed exactly the same as obesity in the USA.  Are Americans racist against fat people?  Wrong term.  Do Americans discriminate against fat people?  Probably, although at a more subliminal level and more against fat women (it's complicated).  Substitute "fat" for "dark skin" and it's very similar.  Thai's consider light skin Asians (e.g., Koreans, Chinese, Japanese) to be the most attractive.  This preference is more pronounced for men choosing women.  

As for "trying to change one's skin color," isn't that sort of like getting a tan?  Actually, it's exactly the same.  But I'm sure you will all disagree.

If you want to be technical, there is no taxonomic relevance to the word "race" when used to describe people.  We are all members of the human race.  If we want to adopt various racial classifications posed by people and governments of times gone by, fine, but the word is really being incorrectly used.  So technically, "racism" is pretty impossible.

But as "racism" is an accepted term, I would suggest that posters not get wrapped around the semantics of the word.  You can lump racism, nantionalism, classism, ethnocentricity, et al, for the purposes of this thread. 

[Jingthing]

Firstly, let me repeat my question from my opening piece--can a Thai guy just hop over to America on a retirement visa? The answer is no.

Huh? That's ridiculous! There is no retirement visa available in the USA for anyone. Nothing to do with Thais, race, or nationality. It's a first world thing, most first world countries aren't interested in that kind of migrant.

Next ...

Jeez, JT, that's my freakin point! Or do you only pick out certain things that support your contention? Let's see, Thai's are more racist when it comes to land ownership, but less racist when it comes to immigration from developed countries. Does that make it a wash? C'mon.

No, you didn't make any point. The USA and many other countries are simply not interested in hosting any foreign retirees, period, regardless of wealth, race, nationality, anything. I don't think you've made any kind of point with this, and suggest you give it up.

[Berkshire]

The OP is rather confused and i believe your stupid anti expat posts are probably the result of your own limited success here. If your posts were'nt so monotonous, ill concieved and confused, the fact that they are written in such an arrogant condecsending tone i'd probably find them rather insulting.

There's "possibly" racism here is there? I can think of a number of people of different creed/nationality that might put you straight on that question.

Now, that said, where's the IGNORE button so i too can follow what seems to be becoming a trend in looking to ignore your foolish comments.

Carmine, I'd like to reply to your post, but it's rather incoherent as usual. Do you think Google has a translator for gibberish?