Farangs Calling Thai'S Racist...

[Huey]

I seem to remember the boatloads of Rohingya refugees that were beaten on the beach and many of them sent back to sea to die. I think that is a pretty strong display of discrimination based on origin.

I also remember something about the Thai police selling Burmese refugees to fishing boat captains and the presumption that those people were frequently murdered and thrown overboard when they no longer would work for free or became sick.

I would say that that is an example equal to occurrences in America during slavery.

Wrong, Africans were brought over to America against their will, Burmese choose to enter into Thailand illegally. BIG difference.

Look around here and back home and notice racism and racist opinions everywhere. However, in some places it's way more obvious and plentiful than others. In England it's getting very complicated with the huge immigration that immigrants are racist against immigrants, disregarding the natives. In Thailand it's less complicated due to fewer pockets of nationalities settling here. I'd say its minimal against caucasians, but it is again linked to behaviour and reputation. Thais are openly racist against blacks, Arabs and Indians. However, it could be said that the moneyed Indians here for two or more generations share a certain degree of racism towards the Thais! And so on. Thais are indeed most racist towards their neighbours whom they've had a bloody history with...although I'm not quite sure if all of these neighbours view Thais with equal abhorrence. Chinese immigrants in Thailand, in my experience, have been the worst culprits of racism in terms of social mixing, marriage and general close-minded outspoken opinions on other races, Westerners being a major one.

Funny how it's always white people telling me this. however in 9 years here the only racism I received for being black was from white people, never Thais. Thais will do the rip you off because your obviously not from here deal, but never anything for being black specifically.

Were I do see it from Thais is in their advertising. "Darly" Toothpaste and "Black Man" Cleaning supplies....like I was born with a F'ing broom in my hand and wearing a bow tie LOL

[yogi100]

I seem to remember the boatloads of Rohingya refugees that were beaten on the beach and many of them sent back to sea to die. I think that is a pretty strong display of discrimination based on origin.

I also remember something about the Thai police selling Burmese refugees to fishing boat captains and the presumption that those people were frequently murdered and thrown overboard when they no longer would work for free or became sick.

I would say that that is an example equal to occurrences in America during slavery.

Wrong, Africans were brought over to America against their will, Burmese choose to enter into Thailand illegally. BIG difference.

Look around here and back home and notice racism and racist opinions everywhere. However, in some places it's way more obvious and plentiful than others. In England it's getting very complicated with the huge immigration that immigrants are racist against immigrants, disregarding the natives. In Thailand it's less complicated due to fewer pockets of nationalities settling here. I'd say its minimal against caucasians, but it is again linked to behaviour and reputation. Thais are openly racist against blacks, Arabs and Indians. However, it could be said that the moneyed Indians here for two or more generations share a certain degree of racism towards the Thais! And so on. Thais are indeed most racist towards their neighbours whom they've had a bloody history with...although I'm not quite sure if all of these neighbours view Thais with equal abhorrence. Chinese immigrants in Thailand, in my experience, have been the worst culprits of racism in terms of social mixing, marriage and general close-minded outspoken opinions on other races, Westerners being a major one.

Funny how it's always white people telling me this. however in 9 years here the only racism I received for being black was from white people, never Thais. Thais will do the rip you off because your obviously not from here deal, but never anything for being black specifically.

Were I do see it from Thais is in their advertising. "Darly" Toothpaste and "Black Man" Cleaning supplies....like I was born with a F'ing broom in my hand and wearing a bow tie LOL

Darly toothpaste used to be known as Darkie toothpaste but had its name changed to avoid causing offence. In British schools they now have to refer to a blackboard as a chalkboard for the same reason. On the outskirts of London there is an area known as as Blackheath. It was there that the victims of the Bubonic plague, also called the Black Death were buried. Liberals actually tried to have its name changed in the 1970s but were unsuccessful.

[norrona]

Funny how it's always white people telling me this. however in 9 years here the only racism I received for being black was from white people, never Thais. Thais will do the rip you off because your obviously not from here deal, but never anything for being black specifically.

Were I do see it from Thais is in their advertising. "Darly" Toothpaste and "Black Man" Cleaning supplies....like I was born with a F'ing broom in my hand and wearing a bow tie LOL

so you don't mind being called chocolate man or man dtum then as I dare say you have been, ok maybe not to your face:whistling:

and I suppose you have nothing to do with marmalade eitherB)

Edited August 12, 2010 by norrona

[Heng]

IMO you'll find a good % of Thais overtly and non-overtly racist against all races, Asians, westerners, Arabs, and blacks included. There is a slight scale though, unfortunately (for blacks) with them currently at the bottom. When the media/trade/financial capitals of the world are on the African continent - and specifically the black parts of Africa, that would probably change a bit. Again, it's not uniform and much of it is non-overt so folks from any particular group might feel that they aren't discriminated against.

Just another normal human trait, nothing to get too excited about.

[MAJIC]

I have personally had many instances of Thai Racialism,here is just one.

Stayed in a Hotel once in Udonthani in Dutsadee Road,complained at Reception that my door lock was not working properly,and then I went out for the day.

On returning and walking down my corridor I noticed that all the rooms had new padlocks fitted,when I got to my door it was the only one without one fitted.

So down to Reception I went to complain again, and was told by a pimply youth of a Receptionist:"no get...you Falang"

So I checked out the next morning,with a parting shot "you Thai no get Falang baht"

IMO Vote with your feet thats all they understand about Racialism.

Edited August 12, 2010 by MAJIC

[Berkshire]

Funny how it's always white people telling me this. however in 9 years here the only racism I received for being black was from white people, never Thais. Thais will do the rip you off because your obviously not from here deal, but never anything for being black specifically.

Were I do see it from Thais is in their advertising. "Darly" Toothpaste and "Black Man" Cleaning supplies....like I was born with a F'ing broom in my hand and wearing a bow tie LOL

so you don't mind being called chocolate man or man dtum then as I dare say you have been, ok maybe not to your face:whistling:

and I suppose you have nothing to do with marmalade eitherB)

I think his point clearly is that the ads that he's seen could be considered racist, or at the very least, tasteless, in the west. But the Thai's (much like the Japanese and their brand of ads) intended no malice. So compared to the sort of racism that he's familiar with (i.e., western style racism and overt bigotry), these unintentional slights are relatively harmless.

[bonobo]

It is also ridiculous to call humans a race, unless there are races other than humans. I thought humans were a species.

You are a little behind in current scientific thinking. For much of the Middle Ages, the accepted "fact" was that there were three races, one for each of Noah's sons. (which caused some consternation when the New World was discovered.) Subsequently, it was accepted that there were 5 races. However, as science got better and better at genetics and deciphering DNA, the idea of races has fallen out of favor, and the concept of a "human race" has gone beyond a simple phrase and on to scientific acceptance.

If there is only one race what is the point of even having a word for it. Wouldn't human suffice?

You mean words and phrases like poltergeist, werewolf, teleportation, and peace on earth?

The word race obviously has meaning, and in the past, that meaning was considered to be based on pure science. It is certainly in the lexicon.

My point was that it is counter-productive to get wrapped around the semantics of the word, particularly as that from a taxonomic perspective, the word has little meaning, when writing about the issues of this thread. Arguing that Burmese and Thais are of the same race so there can be no racism present while Thais and, say Nigerians, are of different races is using taxonomy incorrectly. There is no scientific basis to make that claim.

The point here is whether Thais think of other demographics in a discriminatory way. Whether that is "racism" or "demographicism," if I can coin phrase, is a little irrelevant, and belaboring the point doesn't bring anything to the discussion at hand..

[darhut]

Well at least they have stopped the local racism between the thais on the local buses. Before the white thais would sit up front and the black (dum) thais would have to sit in the back, well now they have decided to call them all green instead of black and white. Now the dark green thais have to sit in back and light green sit in front. Problem fixed.

If only other nations could fix problems so easy.

[ronz28]

Yep, its like the pot calling the kettle black. Its been around since I have first came the Thailand in 1968 but that's only a few years after the Civil Rights Act passed in the US to stop the worst of racism. Back then there was a place called Jack's where blacks could go for southern cooking, etc. without racism directed at them, but Farangs weren't exactly welcome there as every other place catered to Farangs.

[Jatayu]

""Yes I also picked up that hint of naivete that often results from over exposure to post-modernist blather lathered onto impressionable minds in institutions of higher learning throughout the Occident. Also, the OP has clearly lived a rather closeted life in Thailand if they have not encountered any racism. That being said, the vast majority of Thais do not seem to have any issues with white folks. The numbers change a bit in regards to black folks and escalate dramatically when talking of either Burmese or highland minorities.""

well put.

Farang = White Devil.

For years I've challenged anyone to rebut this argument convincingly.

[Groongthep]

Farang = White Devil.

For years I've challenged anyone to rebut this argument convincingly.

I see this is your first post on the Thaivisa forum. Welcome.

As to your comment however I suggest you use the search function and do a little research. You will find that the term "farang" has probably been one of the most discussed items here for years. It has in fact, been beaten to death. You'll also find that there have been quite a few convincing arguments, many from Thais themselves, that the word "farang" is at worst only mildly perjorative and is usually used simply as a discriptive term for white people without any negative connotation. To equate it with "White Devil" is simply silly.

In Thai culture describing people by their race is not taboo as it is in western culture. That's just the way it is and there is nothing we can do about it. We foreigners would do best not trying to project our culture and values on the locals.

Edited August 16, 2010 by Groongthep

[SuperstarStatus]

"Farang" means Westerner or can be a Fruit.

It does not mean "you piece of shit white trash" unless it's used as "Farang kee nok" . And even if they said that to you there probally just playing around in fun with you.

Some of you people are hopeless. Get some thick skin.

Stop worrying about "Farang" because there's about 100 other words there calling you that you need to be worried about.

Or become fluent in Thai so you can debate with a real Thai and not "farangs" who only argree with "farangs"

[bkkjames]

"Farang" means Westerner or can be a Fruit.

It does not mean "you piece of shit white trash" unless it's used as "Farang kee nok" . And even if they said that to you there probally just playing around in fun with you.

Some of you people are hopeless. Get some thick skin.

Stop worrying about "Farang" because there's about 100 other words there calling you that you need to be worried about.

Or become fluent in Thai so you can debate with a real Thai and not "farangs" who only argree with "farangs"

Let's have some fun with this then - I will start off. Then you add in the other 99 ok Superstar?

1. Kwai

Edited August 16, 2010 by bkkjames

[carmine]

"Farang" means Westerner or can be a Fruit.

It does not mean "you piece of shit white trash" unless it's used as "Farang kee nok" . And even if they said that to you there probally just playing around in fun with you.

Some of you people are hopeless. Get some thick skin.

Stop worrying about "Farang" because there's about 100 other words there calling you that you need to be worried about.

Or become fluent in Thai so you can debate with a real Thai and not "farangs" who only argree with "farangs"

"Theres 100 other words they're calling you that you need to be worried about" Nice comment Superstarstatus. Shows you as you really are.

Edited August 16, 2010 by bonobo
removed flame

[SuperstarStatus]

"Farang" means Westerner or can be a Fruit.

It does not mean "you piece of shit white trash" unless it's used as "Farang kee nok" . And even if they said that to you there probally just playing around in fun with you.  

Some of you people are hopeless. Get some thick skin.

Stop worrying about "Farang" because there's about 100 other words there calling you that you need to be worried about.

Or become fluent in Thai so you can debate with a real Thai and not "farangs" who only argree with "farangs"

"Theres 100 other words they're calling you that you need to be worried about"  Nice comment Superstarstatus.  Shows you as you really are.   

lol why?????? Is someone always taking my post the wrong way.

What I mean is, while people are caught up in "farang" alone, which is basically harmless.

Thais could be using a ton of phrases or others words to really degrade you or make fun of you lol.

[SuperstarStatus]

"Farang" means Westerner or can be a Fruit.

It does not mean "you piece of shit white trash" unless it's used as "Farang kee nok" . And even if they said that to you there probally just playing around in fun with you.  

Some of you people are hopeless. Get some thick skin.

Stop worrying about "Farang" because there's about 100 other words there calling you that you need to be worried about.

Or become fluent in Thai so you can debate with a real Thai and not "farangs" who only argree with "farangs"

Let's have some fun with this then - I will start off. Then you add in the other 99 ok Superstar?

1. Kwai

never fails to see bkkjames automaticly post 2 seconds after any of my posts, as all he must do is scroll the forums in search of somthing I say.

2. Máh

[bonobo]

"Farang" means Westerner or can be a Fruit.

It does not mean "you piece of shit white trash" unless it's used as "Farang kee nok" . And even if they said that to you there probally just playing around in fun with you.  

Some of you people are hopeless. Get some thick skin.

Stop worrying about "Farang" because there's about 100 other words there calling you that you need to be worried about.

Or become fluent in Thai so you can debate with a real Thai and not "farangs" who only argree with "farangs"

Let's have some fun with this then - I will start off. Then you add in the other 99 ok Superstar?

1. Kwai

never fails to see bkkjames automaticly post 2 seconds after any of my posts, as all he must do is scroll the forums in search of somthing I say.

2. Máh

The point and counterpoint have been made.  I should point out that English is the language of almost all of ThaiVisa, so we don't really need to go from #'s 3-100.

And now back to your previously scheduled thread. 

[bkkjames]

"Farang" means Westerner or can be a Fruit.

It does not mean "you piece of shit white trash" unless it's used as "Farang kee nok" . And even if they said that to you there probally just playing around in fun with you.  

Some of you people are hopeless. Get some thick skin.

Stop worrying about "Farang" because there's about 100 other words there calling you that you need to be worried about.

Or become fluent in Thai so you can debate with a real Thai and not "farangs" who only argree with "farangs"

Let's have some fun with this then - I will start off. Then you add in the other 99 ok Superstar?

1. Kwai

never fails to see bkkjames automaticly post 2 seconds after any of my posts, as all he must do is scroll the forums in search of somthing I say.

2. Máh

The point and counterpoint have been made.  I should point out that English is the language of almost all of ThaiVisa, so we don't really need to go from #'s 3-100.

And now back to your previously scheduled thread. 

ok bonobo - point taken mate.

1. buffalo

2. dog or horse (my thai is bad)

3. monkey 

[bkkjames]

"Farang" means Westerner or can be a Fruit.

It does not mean "you piece of shit white trash" unless it's used as "Farang kee nok" . And even if they said that to you there probally just playing around in fun with you.  

Some of you people are hopeless. Get some thick skin.

Stop worrying about "Farang" because there's about 100 other words there calling you that you need to be worried about.

Or become fluent in Thai so you can debate with a real Thai and not "farangs" who only argree with "farangs"

Let's have some fun with this then - I will start off. Then you add in the other 99 ok Superstar?

1. Kwai

never fails to see bkkjames automaticly post 2 seconds after any of my posts, as all he must do is scroll the forums in search of somthing I say.

2. Máh

actually I have TV alert for BS - needless to say that your posts keep coming up over and over again. 

[Tod Daniels]

FWIW: the true meaning of the word ฝรั่ง can ONLY be interpreted via CONTEXT. Up country, in Nakhon Nowhere, where ฝรั่ง are thin on the ground, when a thai kid points and says to his mother แม่, ดูฝรั่ง!! (Mom, LOOK a foreigner!!), I take it with a grain of proverbial salt.

ANYWHERE ELSE in this entire country, especially a place with a high proportion of foreigners and my ears prick up to see what context the word is being used in. It can and is used in derogatory meanings in these areas; just as it can be an unambiguous term denoting a white foreign.

However the poser <sic> , poster known as SuperstarStatus obviously has a better take on all-thingz-thai than anyone else here compelling me to bow to his in-finite wisdom . ฝรั่งโง่เง่าเต่าตุ่นแน่ ๆ!

Now; trying to pull this totally hopeless thread, from the obvious "pissing match" it has degenerated into, back on topic I will stand by my assertions that;

The thais on average are some of the most viciously racist and prejudiced people you are likely to come across . Especially so against their own (as in AGAINST other thai nationals; who are NOT in their immediate circle of friends or acquaintances, not to mention people from any country they share a land border with to boot!). True they will be polite in interactions with others on the surface as it's an ingrained fault of their alleged cultural identity. However, once they're with their friends, or the other person's left, man you should hear some of the things they say. I mean it's truly mind wobbling.

I will not deign to comment about what the thais think of to what I like to call; "the myriad of mindless, sheep-like, 'wanna-b-thai' foreigners parading around in color coordinated shirts 'n snazzy rubber bracelets, hand-in-hand with their tattooed, gold-encrusted 'thai-in-tow") . That is the topic of another thread I'm sure.

Again we apologize for interrupting your regularly scheduled programming.

Edited August 16, 2010 by tod-daniels

[surayu]

Honestly, racism in America today is still worse than Thailand.

So basically you are calling thai people racists with that, let me recall the title of your own topic here: " Farangs calling thai's racist...do you know HOW SILLY YOU SOUND?" ok let's see at the bright side of it, we finally agree on something, "thais are racists" that's it, not all of them obviously, but it's something that you can clearly see almost everywhere you go on various degrees

Edit:

and from your other post here (#87) : " Thai's are more racist when it comes to land ownership, but less racist when it comes to immigration from developed countries"

This is what I would call "grasping at straws." As usual, surayu, you're somewhere out in la-la land. You're quoting me out-of-context to demonstrate that I'm....what? Contradicting myself? I keep repeating that farangs use of the word "racist" to describe Thais attitudes (and even governmental policy) is inappropriate. Farangs want to call everything that a Thai does that's not in the farangs interest "racist." Thai visa laws? Racist. Thais love the King? Racist. Thais proud to be Thais? Racist. Thais calling farangs "farangs?" Racist. Overcharged by a street vendor? Racist. Thais staying out of the sun to avoid a tan? Racist. I can literally go on and on.

Yes you got me there, i have been to la-la land for the last few days:D that's why i wasn't posting, so let's see, you say i am quoting you out of context by associating the title of your thread which is about farangs being silly by calling thais racists and then quoting you(a farang) again calling openly thais as racists...am i missing anythings? To me this attempt you made sounds goods as me telling everyones that they can't blame me for what i am writing because wasn't me but my own hands taping up everything either with me knowning (but not agree) with my own hands or just without knowing what my hands are writing

[Berkshire]

The thais on average are some of the most viciously racist and prejudiced people you are likely to come across . Especially so against their own (as in AGAINST other thai nationals; who are NOT in their immediate circle of friends or acquaintances, not to mention people from any country they share a land border with to boot!). True they will be polite in interactions with others on the surface as it's an ingrained fault of their alleged cultural identity. However, once they're with their friends, or the other person's left, man you should hear some of the things they say. I mean it's truly mind wobbling.

You've written some pretty cool stuff on here, TD. In fact, the most endearing aspect of your posts are that it reminds me of me. Nevertheless...you can't be freakin serious. You're saying Thais are the most "viciously racist people," and you cite as one of your examples that they are racist "AGAINST other thai nationals; who are NOT in their immediate circle of friends or acquaintances." How in God's name is that "racist?" Am I more "racist" because I'm more protective of my immediate family/friends? I don't get you. Unless the Thais get on their knees and kiss our collective asses, farangs will always consider them racist? Is that about the extent of it? Man, you guys have got issues.

[canuckamuck]

Perhaps he should have said extremely inclined to discriminate based on prejudice.

[CarlBkk]

I think what he really meant was that central Thais can be "racist" towards those from the South, Burmese border tribes, Far Eastern Issarn and North Eastern Issarn. Although not strictly racist, it is borderline....the genotype of many of these fellow Thais is and is seen as quite close to the neighbouring countries. Different dialects, looks (in general), food, music.

I think of it like North Americans mocking the southern states, West Germans mocking former East Germans etc. but on a much larger and more outspoken scale. As far as I'm aware it's not so malicious or aggressive.

[Tod Daniels]

<SNIP> Man, you guys have got issues.

Hey go easy there, I 'resemble' that remark . (Although thanx for the compliment in your post. If indeed reminding you of youself is a compliment to anyone other than you) ... ...

And by being racist against other thai nationals, what I meant was; they'll slag another thai off as soon as they walk away. On this we must agree to disagree.

Personally I'm not here to win a frickin' popularity contest with either the ever smiling, yet diminutive, 'indigenous natives', nor the miscreant foreigners who seem to populate the glorious "Land 'O Thais". ..

I quit caring a long time ago what people thought about me, whether they voiced it to my face or behind my back. Then again, I'm just that way.

One of my favorite t-shirts (other than my KISS t-shirts) is one which says "I ain't here to impress none 'o you muther-f*ckers."

And no, I’m not ‘talking down to you’; I’m trying to talk to you on my level. Gimme your hand, I’ll pull you up here. …

[Jatayu]

Yeah, I knew that would come up instantly.

Groongtep - not my first post, since switching computers rediscovering what my last or current password is/was was much harder than just signing up anew. As far as I'm concerned I care not whether I'm tagged advanced member or newbie.

I agree it can be a mildly offensive word in certain context, even plainly descriptive, but still should be dropped from educated people's vocabulary. And there lies the meaning of my post, usage defines the word, and IMO more often than not the context points to the "white devil" I'm not offended by it as much, as I'm honestly not generally offended by anything, because I don't care.

What I do think is criminal is people in authority positions using the word in front of students and children - like teachers, PhDs etc.

The damage done, I think, is that using the word only makes the user seem ignorant and propagates the stereotype that Thai people are simple-minded and so ignorant that they think all western-looking people come from Falangland.

Then they teach the kids to say it. And this place never gets anywhere, the cycle repeats.

Thus the image of natives running about in the bush of Africa screaming "white devil!"

[Huey]

Funny how it's always white people telling me this. however in 9 years here the only racism I received for being black was from white people, never Thais. Thais will do the rip you off because your obviously not from here deal, but never anything for being black specifically.

Were I do see it from Thais is in their advertising. "Darly" Toothpaste and "Black Man" Cleaning supplies....like I was born with a F'ing broom in my hand and wearing a bow tie LOL

so you don't mind being called chocolate man or man dtum then as I dare say you have been, ok maybe not to your face:whistling:

and I suppose you have nothing to do with marmalade eitherB)

I think his point clearly is that the ads that he's seen could be considered racist, or at the very least, tasteless, in the west. But the Thai's (much like the Japanese and their brand of ads) intended no malice. So compared to the sort of racism that he's familiar with (i.e., western style racism and overt bigotry), these unintentional slights are relatively harmless.

You took the words right out of my mouth. Thank you. that's exactly what I was trying to relay. Being Black here in Thailand with regards to racism from Thais is a total Non-issue here for me.

And furthermore for the OP, and anyone else who is as easily offended by being called a farang, all I can say is that you have no idea what a blessed life you have lead if you truly think you're being called a white devil, or experiencing any real racism when being called a farang.

Suck it up all ready, it's not like they are calling you a kee nok farang. ..geez.

[Tod Daniels]

<SNIPPED>

Suck it up all ready, it's not like they are calling you a "kee nok farang". ..geez.

Actually, if we're gonna start writing thai in engrish, the term in thai is ฝรั่งขี้นก, which for people who can't read thai is pronouced in engrish like (fa^L rang^L khee^F nohk^H), but then again WHO cares (especially on this thread). Really though, either get the idiom right OR don't write it!! ..

And now back to the pissing match already in progress. ..

[David006]

How many hundred thousand Canucks are retired / semi retired in Arizona or Florida JT?

To repeat, there is no retirement visa available in the US. PERIOD. For anyone! Yes they can stay part time on tourist visas, etc. and they CANNOT stay all year that way. Check your facts first, OK? Same deal with Canada. Americans cannot retire in Canada on a retirement visa, because such a visa option DOES NOT EXIST.

a visa per se may not exist but there never was a time limit on Canadian citizens entering the US as tourists or snow birds as they call 'em..

on topic.. I believe that the word racism is being used as a "catch all" to describe the mistreatment of one group of individuals by another regardless of ethnicity, race, colour or creed. Calling any one "country" racist is rather a misnomer.

Lets face it some Jews ill treat the Muslims, some Muslims ill treat other creeds and some etc etc, some rich abuse the poor, some poor hate the rich, some classes hate other classes,I don't like you because you have zits,you're male/female,fat, thin, dark skinned, anemic,have a prettier younger wife, drive a bigger truck,live/come from or was born in that part of the town,country,world or support that sports team.... yadda yadda yadda...its the human animal condition! I don't think it is racism per se.

Certainly discrimination maybe applies here in LOS but it does not apply to every individual and circumstance.

...just as some orientals actually know how to drive and not all black people steal cars...

...as the saying goes...some of my best friends are Black/Jewish/Arab/Oriental/German/Brit/Aussie/idiots/boors etc..but wouldn't want 'em living next door or marrying my daughter..

[ThiagoBras]

I think you are very confused. There are different levels of racism but they are ALL racism.

I agree