Increasing Water Pressure

[Svenn]

Interested in increasing the water pressure in my house, I'm sure it's been discussed millions of times here but the only search results I could get on this forum were 'foot massage for less than 200 baht' or some other irrelevant crap. I've just arrived in our 10 month old house to find the faucets and shower basically drip out water with less pressure than I can muster myself in the urinal ... we went to Lotus today and they had pumps for about 5000 baht, but apparently one needs to buy a large storage tank with them as well? which Lotus didn't have of course. If anyone remembers any threads discussing this, please point me to them.

I assume then every modern thai house has a pump? because without one, this situation is comically ridiculous... what's the point of paying for plumbing and fixtures if they don't even work? When the school nearby opens, apparently there's not hardly any water at all here.

anyway, thanks for any help

[Piengrudee]

Legally, you should have a tank; the pump is suppose to draw from the tank. However, many people suck directly from the main, which is not legal. But who cares?

[powderpuff]

Not sure where you live but.

Home Pro can fulfill all your needs in one stop.

Storage tank - yes good idea.

City water pressure will fill it at night (I am discussing Bangkok)

The stored deaired water will then be available for the pump suction.

I personally use a 700 liter tank which would last 3 days even with no supply. By then trucks will be coming down the street selling water.

I really like the new poly "granite look" tanks. Shoot for a 10 year warranty. You'll need a float vavle at the fill up point..

Then look at Grundfos pumps.

Tell us how many stories is your house.

The Grundfos MQ-3-45 is a simple - plug & play pump which will runs for years with no problems.

See picture below.

One real important point.

Once all this stuff is hooked up & ready to test - go around all your faucets & remover the "bubblers' Those fine Stainless Steel screens at the outlet.

Run the system for some time prior to reinstallation.

Now Home Pro can arrange a crew to come out & install it.

You will need all manner of ancillary valves tees fittings tape glue & pipes which we can not specify, just be ready to pay extra for unexpected items such as check ( "non-return) valves etc.

Edited August 13, 2010 by powderpuff

[Svenn]

Is it hard to find someone to install one that sucks from the main piengurdee? Does it have just as much pressure as one installed to take from a tank?

thanks for the info powderpuff... what was the ultimate cost of the tank + the pump? We have just a small one-floor 3 bathroom/one kitchen house in Ubon, so we can get by with the smallest category of pumps I think...

The guy at Lotus said a tank would cost like 10 or 20k baht I think, the pumps were like 5000. I don't want to pay more than say 8000 baht total for everything... if it costs more than that I'll have to wait a few months.

[Beardog]

Your looking at 7000 baht for a 1000 liter tank & 10,000-n 11,000 for a 2000 liter tank. Do yourself a big favor - don't cheese yourself & get a cheap ass blue poly tank. You will be repurchasing a new one as they do croak in the sun(No Uv) the stone or granite newer brown or gray ones are much beefier & have an effective UV barrier. The pumps range from 1000 baht for a real bare bones not automatic used by smaller nurseries. A decent house pump 4500 baht & up. Grundafos will be more but it will last a long time I have 2 Mitsubishi's I use a 305 from the well & a 200 from the tank into the house. Great water delivery. One story house. Now a 176 meter house Last house we are tearing down was I think about a 62 meter shoe box. There is another cheaper option on the tank. You can get 5 or 6 150 cm. cement rings & cement the bottom & seal the rings with cement where the rings fit on top of each other & the 2 punch outs used to lift the rings about 200 baht or less a ring & cement. It doesn't look as nice but 100% UV protection. with the plumbing tank float pipes one way check valve etc. you are looking at 2000 +300 baht labor for some one to cement it together & roll the rings in place -you may need another laborer to lift the rings, unless you are feeling up to the schlep to do it yourself. I would avoid Chinese made pumps.....most repair shops will tell you better to replace while the name brand pumps everyone works on & parts are readily available.

[powderpuff]

kamalabob

One of the sweetest set-ups you will ever see.

Post #7

shows the granite look tanks - mostly they are guaranteed for 10 years.

I have a fiberglass tanks (700 liter) I have had in service for close to 20 years.

No problems with algae.

Good advice beardog. I used Mitsubishi's for years but now I prefer the Masterflow - Taiwanese made pumps & controllers. They don't need expansion tanks.

[moe666]

kamalabob

One of the sweetest set-ups you will ever see.

Post #7

shows the granite look tanks - mostly they are guaranteed for 10 years.

I have a fiberglass tanks (700 liter) I have had in service for close to 20 years.

No problems with algae.

Good advice beardog. I used Mitsubishi's for years but now I prefer the Masterflow - Taiwanese made pumps & controllers. They don't need expansion tanks.

No alge unless direct sunlight.

[Crossy]

You'll need to set up something like this:-

The non-return valve will allow you to get some water when the power is off or the pump is down for service.

The pressure tank is often built in to domestic pumps and prevents the pump from starting every time a cup of water is used.

[maccaroni man]

so what if you just want to increase water pressure on one facet (the tub)? my tub is on the second floor and all other facets have good water pressure but the bath tub has very little, i have changed the main booster (big yellow thing with bladder) for a larger one which helped over all but not on the tub. is there a way to increase the pressure for just one facet?

[longball53098]

Sounds more like a piping problem if just one faucet has low pressure. Possibly that faucet has some water restriction device to save water.

[lopburi3]

Legally, you should have a tank; the pump is suppose to draw from the tank. However, many people suck directly from the main, which is not legal. But who cares?

Pulling for a low pressure pipe has the potential to pull in contaminated ground water from any leak in pipe and even more potential to pull in your neighbors soapy washing water from that hose fill sitting in the dish-washing container. I do not know many people who do this anymore.

[powderpuff]

Not to mention air in the system which will air lock your pump - often times causing catastrophic failure.

Thus my comment - de-aired water.

[Svenn]

Well I've talked around a bit about building a concrete water holder and a pump... but it seems like a novel concept to everyone; can anyone recommend a place that can set up the whole system (in Ubon?)? Meanwhile, are there any clever solutions I can do now until its installed to get more pressure? In the US, there's always little plastic water restrictors in the fixtures you can take out to get more pressure, does Thailand have them?

[glomp]

Wouldnt you have to line concrete with something to prevent growth and/or seepage?

[Beardog]

Wouldnt you have to line concrete with something to prevent growth and/or seepage?

No Should not be a problem if you keep sunlight out of the tank. The amount of growth we get in our 1 meter well amounts to maybe 1 sprig that croaks in dry season. I think it would actually help to filter out contaminates. Many people in the rural villages use cement rings quite successfully.As well it is used in many other countries including in the U.S. in arming regions & remote areas to contain water.

You do on the other hand need to line the rings(place the top lid on the bottom of well{to make it easier}) and then place a ring or 2 on top & then cement the first rings in tight & seal the punchout holes & continue the same process with all the rings till tight. Put in the plumbing on the last ring or 2nd ring down & throw on the top lid. You may or may not put a very slight skim coat of cement around the lid if you are concerned about algae.

In building a well you keep the bottom open & leave the punch outs open for water to flow in cementing the rings not needed in a well storage set up. the rings will seat themselves naturally. If you are smart you will fill the outside of the rings with gravel around the outside of rings to keep out debris & increase water purity.

[frenchfarangjomtien]

H,

Just wondering if it's also possible to get more pressure in condo / apartment ?

Is it possible to "suck" more water and send it faster to the faucet with a pump ?

thanks.

[stgrhe]

With domestic water supply it is also important to understand that there is a relation between pressure and flow. The ideal standard house main inlet should have a pipe size of at least 1" and gradually be down sized to 3/4" and further downsized to 1/2" near the tapping points. Here in Thailand much too many houses are fitted with under-sized inlet pipes. For a very large mansion one should probably even go up to a size of 1 1/2".

A higher pressure will cause greater flow through any given pipe size, but as the flow increases, the pressure will decrease downstream due to friction loss because water velocities increase as well.

Think of a garden hose:

With a regular spray nozzle on a regular garden hose you will have high pressure when the nozzle is half-closed, creating a high pressure jet with higher velocity. Open that same nozzle all the way and observe much more flow, but far less pressure. Higher flow = more friction loss = less pressure.

For a bathroom shower the pressure doesn't need to be very high but we need a fairly high flow to have a comfortable shower. For a bathtub on the other hand the flow is of less importance, here we like to have a decent volume so the tub doesn't take to long time to fill up.

[Pacificperson]

I agree with much of the advice above. First, do not put suction on the incoming water (supply) line, or you may get all sorts of nasty surprises. Plus, it steals water pressure from your neighbors. This means that you will get only what your supply gives you, so you need to save up water in a storage tank for when you need it. A liter a minute over 24 hours is almost a ton and a half per day. The size of the storage tank depends upon how much water comes from the supply line and how much water you use.

The storage tank makes water available when you want it and in the quantity that you want. The problem with a tank is that the water in it has no pressure, thus you need a pump and a pressure control switch to turn it off and on. The bladder tank helps to maintain a more stable pressure in the system so that the pump does not cycle off and on rapidly.

If you are not comfortable in sizing the different components, I would suggest that you hire someone who is familiar with the local situation.

[katabeachbum]

With domestic water supply it is also important to understand that there is a relation between pressure and flow. The ideal standard house main inlet should have a pipe size of at least 1" and gradually be down sized to 3/4" and further downsized to 1/2" near the tapping points. Here in Thailand much too many houses are fitted with under-sized inlet pipes. For a very large mansion one should probably even go up to a size of 1 1/2".

A higher pressure will cause greater flow through any given pipe size, but as the flow increases, the pressure will decrease downstream due to friction loss because water velocities increase as well.

Think of a garden hose:

With a regular spray nozzle on a regular garden hose you will have high pressure when the nozzle is half-closed, creating a high pressure jet with higher velocity. Open that same nozzle all the way and observe much more flow, but far less pressure. Higher flow = more friction loss = less pressure.

For a bathroom shower the pressure doesn't need to be very high but we need a fairly high flow to have a comfortable shower. For a bathtub on the other hand the flow is of less importance, here we like to have a decent volume so the tub doesn't take to long time to fill up.

I believe there is no public watersupplier with larger supply than 1/2 inch for residential.

From my drill well 80 meters deep I have 1 inch able to supply 3m3 (3000 liters) an hour to several houses, but each house supplied by 1/2 inch. Fills a 13 meter long swimmingpool in 16 hours.

For my 550 sqm house largest pipe after rooftank/pump is 3/4 inch, which is 3 times the supply of 1/2 inch, and works fine with 8 bathrooms, rainshower by pool, auto garden sprinkler, washingmachines etc. Pressure 2,8 bar.

So 1-1 1/2 inch house-supply is a bit over in my opinion, but I agree in 3/4 main going down to 1/2 inch for every 2 bathroom

[Milo]

I agree with much of the advice above. First, do not put suction on the incoming water (supply) line, or you may get all sorts of nasty surprises. Plus, it steals water pressure from your neighbors. This means that you will get only what your supply gives you, so you need to save up water in a storage tank for when you need it. A liter a minute over 24 hours is almost a ton and a half per day. The size of the storage tank depends upon how much water comes from the supply line and how much water you use.

The storage tank makes water available when you want it and in the quantity that you want. The problem with a tank is that the water in it has no pressure, thus you need a pump and a pressure control switch to turn it off and on. The bladder tank helps to maintain a more stable pressure in the system so that the pump does not cycle off and on rapidly.

If you are not comfortable in sizing the different components, I would suggest that you hire someone who is familiar with the local situation.

Personally never had a problem 'sucking' the water in off the mains to the tank? Only used a baby pump that looks a little like the Grundfos pictured anyway, and purely to pull it up from a dribble as we're at the VERY bottom of the estate. Leave it off most of the time anyway, I only need it about 3times/year anyway. Huge lawn, sometimes I forget...

Tank as advised around 8 of those manhole rings, there when we moved in.

Swear by my old Hitachi 250 pump, 2-storey house and this will run 5taps simultaneously at full pressure with 5m head pressure. What'll do a lot'll do a little! Pumps, a/c, you want decent sizes so it's not flogging it's little knackers off and will last. 9y/o now and not a murmur from it. Remember if you've one with the reservoir below and you ARE using it to supply over 3m high; the reservoir requires draining periodically. They recommend monthly but...

Decent pump like this doesn't half give you a good shower, especially in the bathroom closest to it, and watch out for those little toilet squirter things, can make your flaming eyes water if you don't fit a reduction tap

I also re-piped a great deal of the house before moving in, as stgrhe recommended, 1" base feed, 3/4" risers dropping to 1/2" for the final punch through the wall to flexi-hose connector. I do like this blue plastic & glue lark though, I'm used to copper & sweated joints!!

[Milo]

H,

Just wondering if it's also possible to get more pressure in condo / apartment ?

Is it possible to "suck" more water and send it faster to the faucet with a pump ?

thanks.

Can't see why not, only the same principle as a power shower

[Milo]

Sounds more like a piping problem if just one faucet has low pressure. Possibly that faucet has some water restriction device to save water.

Or just furred up, wouldn't take long to have it off & check. New taps available for as little as 90b, won't break the bank now?

[grin]

When my house was built I opted to buy the Grundfos MQ-3-45 instead of using the Hitachi pump that the builder was going to supply. I can vouch for it producing water pressure equal to what I was used to in the US with multiple showers going full blast at the same time on the second floor. However, there is one drawback with having a powerful pump. You will soon learn where all of the leaks are. In my case the house was new but they still had to tear into several walls to fix leaks. The other problem will be with cheap fixtures that will not be able to completely shut off with the high water pressure. All of the fixtures in my house were made by American Standard but the builder still had to replace one faucet and one shower handle. With an older home you should be even more wary of these possible problems.

[Milo]

When my house was built I opted to buy the Grundfos MQ-3-45 instead of using the Hitachi pump that the builder was going to supply. I can vouch for it producing water pressure equal to what I was used to in the US with multiple showers going full blast at the same time on the second floor. However, there is one drawback with having a powerful pump. You will soon learn where all of the leaks are. In my case the house was new but they still had to tear into several walls to fix leaks. The other problem will be with cheap fixtures that will not be able to completely shut off with the high water pressure. All of the fixtures in my house were made by American Standard but the builder still had to replace one faucet and one shower handle. With an older home you should be even more wary of these possible problems.

Fair point. Must admit I've no experience with the Grundfos so couldn't comment, they've been turning out some great product for a good while now though!

Why I started from almost scratch with the plumbing, the previously installed pipework was almost white with sun bleaching, you just know that's going to be as brittle as buggery! I'm actually beginning to appreciate the Thai half-arsed method of construction these days, by NOT hiding pipes, cables etc behind the plaster everything's so much more accessible. Got a leak, you can not only see it but get at it for repair! Suppose I've conditioned myself to ignore just how flaming ugly it all is!!

Never paid more than 90b for one of those quarter turn sink/shower taps, and never had to replace either. Can't complain! Needless to say add a 1/4 turn ball-valve on each connection by the wall just in case. Shame they've proved surplus to requirements in the majority of cases, lol! Also of course added a 1/4 turn 1 1/4" stop-cock on exit of the pump, plus a 3/4" at the base of each riser. Might as well at these prices.

Admittedly couldn't help myself with the en-suite shower, too many years in the building game drummed into me the value of some serious flow AND pressure! Went out and spent a small fortune on an integrally pumped power shower, it's like being shot-blasted but doesn't half wake you up in the morning

To be honest I'm only renting, and have not the slightest compunction to buy. I can tittle and play about with my 'projects' killing time as much as anything, the landlady can have those enormous bills for roofing/termite infestations etc!! I pay 6,500b/month for a 4bed/4bath house with a damned decent garden all around it (old style, not a postage stamp of front lawn & walkway around!), a 25yr mortgage on the same property would run to 9,500b/month. Personally don't see the sense if I can never REALLY own it anyway, 30yr leases and all that crap? And why tie up free cash in property, it's not like they're a great investment here? Ok, for your kids...still working on that!

[powderpuff]

Had the OP searched "pump" he would have gotten lots of nice threads to read.

Been discussed 1,000,000 times on here.

I guess a 200 watt Mitsu pump will be plenty for him.

[Milo]

Had the OP searched "pump" he would have gotten lots of nice threads to read.

Been discussed 1,000,000 times on here.

I guess a 200 watt Mitsu pump will be plenty for him.

Often wondered why they're the most popular by far? Looking around you'd say they've 90% of the market?

[Beardog]

Had the OP searched "pump" he would have gotten lots of nice threads to read.

Been discussed 1,000,000 times on here.

I guess a 200 watt Mitsu pump will be plenty for him.

Often wondered why they're the most popular by far? Looking around you'd say they've 90% of the market?

Parts are a dime a dozen, all repair shops work on them. fairly quick service & even when it was obvious(by all the mud caked inside the motor) After it being most obvious to even a blind man -my 305 was submersed in water(non - submersible) the Bangkok supplier honored the warranty & gave me a brand new motor free of charge. I still paid 600 baht for Numchai in Pattaya to put the fried unit back together. If they are not under water the shelf life may exceed the warranty. The are some zonks out there, but even Grundafos has a bad day every now & then . Most likely the bad days are on a Friday (time to get drunk day or Monday -the hangover recovery day. Kind of like a Chinese made motorcycle compared to a Japanese made bike(not assembled or made in Thailand.)

Edited August 16, 2010 by Beardog

[powderpuff]

MEQ baby.

First class Japanese company.

Sanyo make similar pumps with Stainless Steel header tanks built in.

As stated before HOME PRO stock all this stuff.

Edited August 17, 2010 by powderpuff