Does Bumrungrad Have Dual Pricing For Thai And Farang?

[gguy]

Talked to one of the docs at Bum. about an orthopedic operation. Doc highly recommended on this board.

Quote was 400K.

Optimally, operation should be done within the next couple of years.

I am an expat living in Thailand over 10 years.

Bum. discount card would save 15K baht.

Any suggestions for getting a better price?

Most docs in Thailand do not perform partial shoulder replacements because most Thai people are not effected.

Talked to two surgeons in Pattaya area. Both suggested the same operation. Both indicated little knowledge of the procedure and they have never performed.

Another alternative is to return to USA and join pre-existing condition insurance pool and get operation. That would cost about 700 USD per month in insurance premiums and 5000 USD in deductibles before 100% of all costs would be paid.

Any method of getting a better price at Bum.?

Thanks

[hhgz]

Referring to your headline question - even if Thais would get a better price, how would that get YOU a better price?

[Jingthing]

You ought to shop it around to other hospitals. Let us know, always interesting to hear about things like this.

[Sheryl]

Undoubtedly cost would be less at many other hospitals, but your problem is that in many cases the expertise of the surgeon would also be less. A shoulder replacement is no small matter and, as you note, is not widely done in Thailand. Also, even at the least expensive of hospitals (which would be a government hospital) the cost is not going low sinc e part of what makes this so costly is the prosthetic device, which is costly and imported (same problem arises with cardiac stents).

The first thing you should do is talk frankly with the surgeon at Bumrungrad, explaining that you do not have insurance and will be paying out of pocket and that this amount is beyond your budget. Ask him if:

- there are any ways to reduce the cost, for example (1) to minimize number of days at the hospital by coming in the morning of the surgery and then leaving ASAP and staying nearby the hospital and coming in daily for post op care as an outpatient (Thai hospitals tend to keep patients in until they no longer need any aftercare); (2) getting all the pre-op work done elsewhere, etc

- he has surgical privileges at any other hospitals that may be less expensive

If neither of the above produce a viable option, ask if he can recommend a surgeon working at a government or nonprofit hospital who is expereinced in shoulder replacement.

I am assuming you have already exhausted non-surgical options and that a shoulder replacement is truly the best option for you. If not, do that first. Especially if you are not too far from medicare age, as waiting till then would enable you to get this done in US at little or no cost.

[Sheryl]

P.S. suggest you also get a price quote from Vejthani, the following doics there specialize in shoulder surgery 9altho not necessarily total replacement):

Dr.Bavornrat Vanadurongwan

http://www.vejthani.com/web-english/pop_en.php?id=508

Dr.Bancha Chernchujit

http://www.vejthani.com/web-english/pop_en.php?id=325

Dr.Teeratcha Wuthiphan

http://www.vejthani.com/web-english/pop_en.php?id=535

All 3 of these have had some training abroad but not, evidently, biard ceritfication outside Thailand. the first one trained in shoulder surgery in the US (Mt Sinai, NYC).

[gguy]

P.S. suggest you also get a price quote from Vejthani, the following doics there specialize in shoulder surgery 9altho not necessarily total replacement):

Dr.Bavornrat Vanadurongwan

http://www.vejthani.com/web-english/pop_en.php?id=508

Dr.Bancha Chernchujit

http://www.vejthani.com/web-english/pop_en.php?id=325

Dr.Teeratcha Wuthiphan

http://www.vejthani.com/web-english/pop_en.php?id=535

All 3 of these have had some training abroad but not, evidently, biard ceritfication outside Thailand. the first one trained in shoulder surgery in the US (Mt Sinai, NYC).

Thanks for the info. Surgery can probably wait until Obamacare comes in 2014. I like the doc at Bumrungrad (Dr. Mason) and he had done about 100 of the surgeries. He seems to be the only shoulder specialist in Bangkok with a very good rep.

[mrtoad]

Bangkok Koh Chang charge 4,000 baht for a Consult with a Junior Doctor for tourists, as opposed to 500 baht for Thais and WP holders. I seriously can't see how they can justify charging 8 times the price. The head Nurse even commented to me that she gets loads of complaints about the price, but it is the Hospitals policy. Certainly has put me off using Bangkok Hospital, even though I get the 500 baht price.

[gguy]

Bangkok Koh Chang charge 4,000 baht for a Consult with a Junior Doctor for tourists, as opposed to 500 baht for Thais and WP holders. I seriously can't see how they can justify charging 8 times the price. The head Nurse even commented to me that she gets loads of complaints about the price, but it is the Hospitals policy. Certainly has put me off using Bangkok Hospital, even though I get the 500 baht price.

same price for expats?????????

bumrungrad makes discount card available to residents only. have to show passport with a one year visa

[mrtoad]

Bangkok Koh Chang charge 4,000 baht for a Consult with a Junior Doctor for tourists, as opposed to 500 baht for Thais and WP holders. I seriously can't see how they can justify charging 8 times the price. The head Nurse even commented to me that she gets loads of complaints about the price, but it is the Hospitals policy. Certainly has put me off using Bangkok Hospital, even though I get the 500 baht price.

same price for expats?????????

bumrungrad makes discount card available to residents only. have to show passport with a one year visa

Depends if you are an expat (as in WP holder or Retirement visa - 500 baht) or a long term tourist which would mean you pay 4,000 baht for a Junior Doctor Consult.

Personally I wouldn't piss on Bangkok Hospital if it was on fire considering that policy. It's not even a small mark up, it's pure out and out extortion.

[crazydrummerpauly]

Bangkok Koh Chang charge 4,000 baht for a Consult with a Junior Doctor for tourists, as opposed to 500 baht for Thais and WP holders. I seriously can't see how they can justify charging 8 times the price. The head Nurse even commented to me that she gets loads of complaints about the price, but it is the Hospitals policy. Certainly has put me off using Bangkok Hospital, even though I get the 500 baht price.

same price for expats?????????

bumrungrad makes discount card available to residents only. have to show passport with a one year visa

Depends if you are an expat (as in WP holder or Retirement visa - 500 baht) or a long term tourist which would mean you pay 4,000 baht for a Junior Doctor Consult.

Personally I wouldn't piss on Bangkok Hospital if it was on fire considering that policy. It's not even a small mark up, it's pure out and out extortion.

I completely disagree with the underlying spirit of this . How about reconsidering the moral position

by which individuals should be charged according to their ability to pay ? Or are you saying that 'in general' Thais are as

affluent as ex-pats ? If you stand back and take a different bead on the duel-pricing philosophy - a more socialised, humanitarian

view, then you might see that if ex-pats did NOT pay more ( i agree how MUCH more should be debated ), then many more

Thais would be squeezed out of medical treatment altogether - which of course means that higher-paying ex-pats are, subsidizing

treatments for Thais in the overall scheme of things. Personally, i don't mind - as long as the 'special' ex-pat price is not actually

several 100%s over the cost 'back home' ! - that WOULD be criminal. "To each according to his needs; and from each according to

his ability to pay"...etc.- What a nice old philosophy. To put the 4,000 baht in context, i just went for ONE dental crown back in the UK,

and the bill is 20,000 baht. Now that IS extortion !

[mrtoad]

Bangkok Koh Chang charge 4,000 baht for a Consult with a Junior Doctor for tourists, as opposed to 500 baht for Thais and WP holders. I seriously can't see how they can justify charging 8 times the price. The head Nurse even commented to me that she gets loads of complaints about the price, but it is the Hospitals policy. Certainly has put me off using Bangkok Hospital, even though I get the 500 baht price.

same price for expats?????????

bumrungrad makes discount card available to residents only. have to show passport with a one year visa

Depends if you are an expat (as in WP holder or Retirement visa - 500 baht) or a long term tourist which would mean you pay 4,000 baht for a Junior Doctor Consult.

Personally I wouldn't piss on Bangkok Hospital if it was on fire considering that policy. It's not even a small mark up, it's pure out and out extortion.

I completely disagree with the underlying spirit of this . How about reconsidering the moral position

by which individuals should be charged according to their ability to pay ? Or are you saying that 'in general' Thais are as

affluent as ex-pats ? If you stand back and take a different bead on the duel-pricing philosophy - a more socialised, humanitarian

view, then you might see that if ex-pats did NOT pay more ( i agree how MUCH more should be debated ), then many more

Thais would be squeezed out of medical treatment altogether - which of course means that higher-paying ex-pats are, subsidizing

treatments for Thais in the overall scheme of things. Personally, i don't mind - as long as the 'special' ex-pat price is not actually

several 100%s over the cost 'back home' ! - that WOULD be criminal. "To each according to his needs; and from each according to

his ability to pay"...etc.- What a nice old philosophy. To put the 4,000 baht in context, i just went for ONE dental crown back in the UK,

and the bill is 20,000 baht. Now that IS extortion !

I think you have completely mistaken what I am writing here, This is not about a hospital that subsidizes for Thai's (Bangkok Hospital )- this is the only place that this particular hospital implements such a policy - i.e. charging 8 times as much. I think you will find that a significant amount of the "Farangs" that use that particular hospital will be people who are on holiday, many of them backpackers.

The fact that you have used "back home" as a an example is totally pointless, this is not back home and secondly paying nearly 100 pounds to maybe see a Dcotor (Junior) for apx 5 minutes is quite ridiculous. Anyway, it's quite fine for you if you are comfortable with it - I have pointed it out so that maybe people who travel to Koh Chang are aware of that hospitals policies.

BTW, I have worked in the Healthcare Industry for the past 16 years - including here in Thailand and I am well aware of the various prices around in different hospitals and this is the most outrageous one so far, and has nothing to do with subsidising treatment.

[bumrungrad]

Hello Everyone,

Since the title of this message is a bit controversial subject, I hope you don't mind if I jump in. I know it is a bit off the way the conversation has been moving.

We absolutely do not have dual pricing at Bumrungrad. This is one of our key pricing points - we charge the same price to everyone who visits the hospital.

I would sit down with the doctor and have a heart-to-heart with him. You may have received a package price, and there may be some things in there which are more "nice to haves", but not essential. It does not hurt to ask.

Best regards,

Scott @ Bumrungrad

[Sheryl]

Thanks for the clarification re Bumrungrad, Scott.

I would like to add that while the dual pricing mentioned for Bangkok Koh Chang has been reported by others in regard to other branches of Bangkok Hospital that are in touristy locales, it is not AFAIK at all the case in Bangkok Hospital, Bangkok. Seems to be a phenomena limited to areas where the only reason the hospital branch has even been opened is to capitalize on the tourist trade. In addition, the qualifications of the physicians at these "branches" is in no way international standard or comparable to what you can find in Bangkok Hospital, Bangkok. If one has to have medical care in those locations the nearest provincial government hospital (or, in Pattaya, Queen Sirikit Naval Hosp) is a better bet both in terms of cost abnd quality. Persdonally I would come to Bkk if at all possible.

OP, not sure waiting for "Obamacare" is such a good idea given the gathering political opposition, not to mention (tho I personally hate the thought) possibility of a different person & party claiming the presidency in 2012. As I gather you are not anywhere near Medicare age you may do better just paying to get this done abroad. Dr. Mason does indeed have an excellent rep and all the feedback I've seen on him has been very positive. Health care costs in Thailand (which have risen considerably in the past few years) are only likely to go up further so waiting may just mean paying more.

Another possibility you could look into is India, I know that there are a number of US and UK board certified docs doing shoulder replacements there. Don't know how the cost will compare to Thailand and also can't make any specific recommendations as to surgeon, though.

[Sheryl]

P.S. You probably already know this but -- physical therapy and careful adherence to a gruelling and often painful exercise program post op are critical to the success of a shoulder replacement. Best not to invest in the procedure unless one is thoroughly prepared to follow through with that, otherwise could end up a waste of money.

[Digitalbanana]

Bangkok Koh Chang charge 4,000 baht for a Consult with a Junior Doctor for tourists, as opposed to 500 baht for Thais and WP holders. I seriously can't see how they can justify charging 8 times the price. The head Nurse even commented to me that she gets loads of complaints about the price, but it is the Hospitals policy. Certainly has put me off using Bangkok Hospital, even though I get the 500 baht price.

same price for expats?????????

bumrungrad makes discount card available to residents only. have to show passport with a one year visa

Is this the same discount card (Healthy Living Club) that costs about 6000THB and includes a health checkup valued at 6300THB plus other discount coupons? Anyone can get this.

[HollandChampion]

Nevermind

Edited September 4, 2010 by HollandChampion

[bumrungrad]

Bangkok Koh Chang charge 4,000 baht for a Consult with a Junior Doctor for tourists, as opposed to 500 baht for Thais and WP holders. I seriously can't see how they can justify charging 8 times the price. The head Nurse even commented to me that she gets loads of complaints about the price, but it is the Hospitals policy. Certainly has put me off using Bangkok Hospital, even though I get the 500 baht price.

same price for expats?????????

bumrungrad makes discount card available to residents only. have to show passport with a one year visa

Is this the same discount card (Healthy Living Club) that costs about 6000THB and includes a health checkup valued at 6300THB plus other discount coupons? Anyone can get this.

Apologies, but just to clarify, this is not entirely accurate.

Any resident of Thailand can purchase the card, Thai or expat. Furthermore, you do need to own the card for at least 7 calendar days before it can be used.

Unfortunately, our banner ad on this site used to point to the HLC page, but TV changed the banners and it looks like changed the destination as well.

The English information for the HLC card can be found at:

http://www.bumrungra...lthyliving.aspx

Best regards,

Scott @ Bumrungrad

[dsfbrit]

Bangkok Koh Chang charge 4,000 baht for a Consult with a Junior Doctor for tourists, as opposed to 500 baht for Thais and WP holders. I seriously can't see how they can justify charging 8 times the price. The head Nurse even commented to me that she gets loads of complaints about the price, but it is the Hospitals policy. Certainly has put me off using Bangkok Hospital, even though I get the 500 baht price.

same price for expats?????????

bumrungrad makes discount card available to residents only. have to show passport with a one year visa

Is this the same discount card (Healthy Living Club) that costs about 6000THB and includes a health checkup valued at 6300THB plus other discount coupons? Anyone can get this.

Apologies, but just to clarify, this is not entirely accurate.

Any resident of Thailand can purchase the card, Thai or expat. Furthermore, you do need to own the card for at least 7 calendar days before it can be used.

Unfortunately, our banner ad on this site used to point to the HLC page, but TV changed the banners and it looks like changed the destination as well.

The English information for the HLC card can be found at:

http://www.bumrungra...lthyliving.aspx

Best regards,

Scott @ Bumrungrad

I have been quoted a 'package' price at Bumrungrad for a hip resurfacing operation. I am considering a full 'executive' checkup anyway, so if I applied for this card, could I use it to get a discount on the hip operation as well.

Also I have high blood pressure and would like this looked into. Is the Executive package checkup sufficient for this or should I just see a cardiologist ?

Thanks for your help.

Edited November 5, 2010 by dsfbrit

[Pacificperson]

I have had executive check ups over the past few years at St. Luke's in Manila and at BNH in Bangkok. In both places they were a series of tests intended to spot problems. They did not seem to be intended to treat problems. I get perscriptions for my BP meds and cholesterol meds and a recommendation to stop smoking and exercise more. If you have a known condition like high BP, then its better to see a specialist for the specific problem.

[jfchandler]

I wanted to follow on with Sheryl's comment above, about checking with your prospective surgeon about other hospitals where he may also have duty.

In my experience, most Thai doctors at the private hospitals in BKK that I've encountered seem routinely to see patients at other hospitals, private and/or public. It seems almost rare to encounter a doctor at a private hospital in BKK who's only seeing patients in one place.

If it's the skill of that particular surgeon you're interested in, the odds are pretty good that he's doing the same kind of work at another hospital that may well have a different and less costly pricing structure.

[Genericnic]

Bangkok Koh Chang charge 4,000 baht for a Consult with a Junior Doctor for tourists, as opposed to 500 baht for Thais and WP holders. I seriously can't see how they can justify charging 8 times the price. The head Nurse even commented to me that she gets loads of complaints about the price, but it is the Hospitals policy. Certainly has put me off using Bangkok Hospital, even though I get the 500 baht price.

same price for expats?????????

bumrungrad makes discount card available to residents only. have to show passport with a one year visa

Depends if you are an expat (as in WP holder or Retirement visa - 500 baht) or a long term tourist which would mean you pay 4,000 baht for a Junior Doctor Consult.

Personally I wouldn't piss on Bangkok Hospital if it was on fire considering that policy. It's not even a small mark up, it's pure out and out extortion.

If I were a tourist in my present circumstance, I wouldn't have a problem with the higher fee. Most, if not all of it, would be covered by my group health plan in the U.S. and I would be reimbursed for it. Obviously, if you didn't have some kind of insurance backup, the difference is substantial. I would think that a good portion of tourists (but not all) would be in situations similar to mine.

David

p.s. I will remember to get my card when I arrive with my retirement visa.