Reds Back Out In Chiang Mai

[wolf5370]

Personally, ignoring all the bad things that happened, I think the red's occupation of Bangkok succeeded in the only way it needed to - it raised the profile of the poor, showed that they would and could be rallied, and therefore put them squarely on the agenda - this is why I think a calming session of 'wait and see' is really needed. The reds money is best spent right now on political pressure and legal advice for those you mention. As to the Yellows, unfortunatly, to the vistor goes the spoils - again legal recourse could be sought after an election and a legitimate government takes seat (assuming it is not more of the same of course). I think there are probably those in government that would like to see the yellows that are awaiting trial to be stood down and for the legal process to be accelerated (if nothing else than to get it out of the red's arsenal); problem is, again, with potential troubles always looming and continual attack, the government (such as it is) needs all the allies it can muster.

In short, they have made their point, so sit back and see how it cascades (or not) - and if it doesn't then put their own guy in next time around.

I think part of the problem here is there are too many tiny parties - I think a two round election is needed to get the 3 or 4 big guys though and then to choose between them - otherwise its always going to be coallition.

Agree

(except I'm wondering will the atrocities ever stop if they keep getting covered up, swept aside in the name of unity/harmony?)

I guess they wouldn't, so the way is not to cover them up, but to remove them from the political process and onto the judicial process. Look first at reaching an equalibrium (harmany one day, perhaps) and them going back and wiping up the mistakes. Every new government should have the ability (and responsibility) of prosocuting those wrong doers from the last government - after a few governments, there would be less bad guys in the process anyway (with luck). The greatest obsticle to this is the corruption of the police and a real need to have a straight FBI like service that has the power to investigate and arrest corrupt officials and politicians - this would remove the need for the army to jump in everytime they think the stink is too much. Another pipedream.

[rixalex]

Beg to differ, but I did not throw any red/yellow propaganda or half truths - and I did not say whom I support (if anyone). .

So what you are saying is why bother arguing over red/yellow propaganda and half truths?

If half truths are being spread and nobody bothers to question them, they may start being taken for full truths in the course of time.

[jdinasia]

[The man is dangerous. Period.

Did he kill ever to avoid an election?

Before you bring it up, I agree his drug war was poorly executed (pun intended), but it was popular and it did alleviate a very serious problem (for a while).

It also seems to have been supported in high places.

Next you will probably bring up Tak Bai and Krue Se, but neither can be attributed to Thaksin, even though he did the usual trick of defending the indefensible (like PM Abhisit did with the Rohingya boat towing and continues to do with the killing of innocents including foreign journalists)

In summary, Thaksin is not the root of all evil in Thailand, and it's time people got over that fantasy.

Amazing --- you defend and seem to even support the MASS extra killings FAR in excess of the deaths that occurred in BKK. You miss the killings of journalists and innocents all during Thaksin's reign of terror. You attribute the Rohingya to Abhisit and not to the person who was PM when it started and as it continued. You pass over Tak Bai and Krue Seh when the action in the South was at Thaksin's direction. (The current actions in the South are being directed by people other than the PM but in the end he will be accountable!

Now for your biggest lie .... Abhisit offered elections early. He did so on the world stage. He did it twice! He didn't kill to stay in office! He, in fact, showed restraint. He held the hawks off for a long time. He gave fair warning for days and weeks that the armed group occupying BKK was illegal. The courts stated the gathering was illegal. Many of the people there were armed. They announced they would burn BKK to the ground before they came. There isn't a chance that that gathering would have been allowed to happen anywhere that I know of other than Thailand. The Reds have a history of violence. It started a long time ago and they have upped the level of violence every time. Why? Not for elections --- they had that offered to them! Look at the targets that were burned ... simple terrorism.

[gotlost]

Bangkok Post breaking news. The Black Shirts aka Red Shirts have been given permission together at Chiang Mai City Hall tomorrow for a peaceful protest.

[jdinasia]

Bangkok Post breaking news. The Black Shirts aka Red Shirts have been given permission together at Chiang Mai City Hall tomorrow for a peaceful protest.

I was out there recently. At least the k-rails and razor wire are still on-site!

[ogb]

jdinasia: I've had my fun with you for the time being, so until next time

[letitbe]

How can any rational person defend these red thugs or even start to compare what they do with what yellows did. Obviously some people believe that the red leaders care for people and are not just out for themselves and their master Mr T. I cant blame poor brainwashed folk fed nonsense day after day but those on this site who honestly think Mt T and leaders gives a #$%$ about anything but his/their own ego money or plain power know nothing about other leaders they seem to follow such as Mugabwe, Idi Amin, Saddam.

I attended a recent red rally where the main speaker clearly stated price of gold was much lower under Taksin and its high price was due to present government. He also compared the current prime minister with Hitler. Most of Thais around believed this crap.

They are a mob as they have amply demonstrated on many occasions and I can only hope and pray for Thailand’s sake they never gain power.

If they started by dropping Taksin and advocated policies which would help the poor I would support that but the only thing I constantly hear is Taksin good Taksin is God and of course when he comes back gold will be back to 1,000 baht a baht so everyone can buy 100 baht of gold with 100,000 baht he will give to every poor person in the country

Those who want to stay blinkered so be it. You cant make a blind man see

[orang37]

... snip ...The Black Shirts aka Red Shirts have been given permission together at Chiang Mai City Hall tomorrow for a peaceful protest.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun GotLost,

Tomorrow (26th.) may be an "interesting day:" through the red-tinted looking glass it may be seen as a day to condemn the"anniversary" of the PAD's occupation of government offices, the beginning of the protests that culminated in the airport seizure. We read that they will wear black to protest against "double standards."

Through the yellow-tinted looking glass: tomorrow is General Prem Tinsulanonda's birthday (now head of the Royal Privy Council, he'll be 90). We read the PAD leaders and supporters facing charges as a result of their demonstrations will surrender themselves to the CSD tomorrow which, to them, is an "auspicious" day.

We hope for peace in Chiang Mai on this "double-edged" day.

best, ~o:37;

[ianf]

How can any rational person defend these red thugs or even start to compare what they do with what yellows did. Obviously some people believe that the red leaders care for people and are not just out for themselves and their master Mr T. I cant blame poor brainwashed folk fed nonsense day after day but those on this site who honestly think Mt T and leaders gives a #$%$ about anything but his/their own ego money or plain power know nothing about other leaders they seem to follow such as Mugabwe, Idi Amin, Saddam.

I attended a recent red rally where the main speaker clearly stated price of gold was much lower under Taksin and its high price was due to present government. He also compared the current prime minister with Hitler. Most of Thais around believed this crap.

They are a mob as they have amply demonstrated on many occasions and I can only hope and pray for Thailand’s sake they never gain power.

If they started by dropping Taksin and advocated policies which would help the poor I would support that but the only thing I constantly hear is Taksin good Taksin is God and of course when he comes back gold will be back to 1,000 baht a baht so everyone can buy 100 baht of gold with 100,000 baht he will give to every poor person in the country

Those who want to stay blinkered so be it. You cant make a blind man see

Never has a truer word been spoken. Sadly the red t shirt folksey people can't see were they are being led.

[hanuman1]

The fact that Taksin has been the best thing for the 'masses' in living memory is an indictment of the entire political system itself. Yet the fact remains that he really was. So what do you expect the reds to do? Condemn the best leader they ever had because he was as corrupt as so many others?

Wrong. Thaksin was the best manipulator of the masses, not the best thing that happened to them! Even as owner of the Man City Football Club the staff there could see right through him, thought he was a fool and cheered when he left. The man is dangerous. Period.

From the red shirt point of view, so what if it was 'manipulation'? Anyone in any country who votes for a political party because - for example - it offers the lowest income tax rates is also being quite openly manipulated. Do people care they're being manipulated? No. They just care about their own bottom line.

Ironically, it's Republicans/Conservatives who understand and embrace this principle most readily.

You're point is rather high-handed and in keeping with the general disregard for the redshirts real grievances.

Edited August 25, 2010 by hanuman1

[ChiangMaiFun]

How can any rational person defend these red thugs or even start to compare what they do with what yellows did. Obviously some people believe that the red leaders care for people and are not just out for themselves and their master Mr T. I cant blame poor brainwashed folk fed nonsense day after day but those on this site who honestly think Mt T and leaders gives a #$%$ about anything but his/their own ego money or plain power know nothing about other leaders they seem to follow such as Mugabwe, Idi Amin, Saddam.

I attended a recent red rally where the main speaker clearly stated price of gold was much lower under Taksin and its high price was due to present government. He also compared the current prime minister with Hitler. Most of Thais around believed this crap.

They are a mob as they have amply demonstrated on many occasions and I can only hope and pray for Thailand's sake they never gain power.

If they started by dropping Taksin and advocated policies which would help the poor I would support that but the only thing I constantly hear is Taksin good Taksin is God and of course when he comes back gold will be back to 1,000 baht a baht so everyone can buy 100 baht of gold with 100,000 baht he will give to every poor person in the country

Those who want to stay blinkered so be it. You cant make a blind man see

Never has a truer word been spoken. Sadly the red t shirt folksey people can't see were they are being led.

Yawnnnnn...

[Gonzo the Face]

The fact that Taksin has been the best thing for the 'masses' in living memory is an indictment of the entire political system itself. Yet the fact remains that he really was. So what do you expect the reds to do? Condemn the best leader they ever had because he was as corrupt as so many others?

Wrong. Thaksin was the best manipulator of the masses, not the best thing that happened to them! Even as owner of the Man City Football Club the staff there could see right through him, thought he was a fool and cheered when he left. The man is dangerous. Period.

From the red shirt point of view, so what if it was 'manipulation'? Anyone in any country who votes for a political party because - for example - it offers the lowest income tax rates is also being quite openly manipulated. Do people care they're being manipulated? No. They just care about their own bottom line.

Ironically, it's Republicans/Conservatives who understand and embrace this principle most readily.

You're point is rather high-handed and in keeping with the general disregard for the redshirts real grievances.

.....and after following your writings for a bit, about the same as your apparent acceptance of their ways and means, up to and including the red shirt level of violent acts, as being necessary.

There is right and there is wrong on both or even many sides, but none should culminate in the violent acts performed by the red shirts. Violence will only beget violence.

The crap stirrers , stir, then step back and cry innocence.... by any standards this is not positive movement....

nu-sa

:jap:

[hanuman1]

The fact that Taksin has been the best thing for the 'masses' in living memory is an indictment of the entire political system itself. Yet the fact remains that he really was. So what do you expect the reds to do? Condemn the best leader they ever had because he was as corrupt as so many others?

Wrong. Thaksin was the best manipulator of the masses, not the best thing that happened to them! Even as owner of the Man City Football Club the staff there could see right through him, thought he was a fool and cheered when he left. The man is dangerous. Period.

From the red shirt point of view, so what if it was 'manipulation'? Anyone in any country who votes for a political party because - for example - it offers the lowest income tax rates is also being quite openly manipulated. Do people care they're being manipulated? No. They just care about their own bottom line.

Ironically, it's Republicans/Conservatives who understand and embrace this principle most readily.

You're point is rather high-handed and in keeping with the general disregard for the redshirts real grievances.

.....and after following your writings for a bit, about the same as your apparent acceptance of their ways and means, up to and including the red shirt level of violent acts, as being necessary.

There is right and there is wrong on both or even many sides, but none should culminate in the violent acts performed by the red shirts. Violence will only beget violence.

The crap stirrers , stir, then step back and cry innocence.... by any standards this is not positive movement....

nu-sa

:jap:

ChiangMaiFun - Can I join the 'yawn' chorus this morning?

It appears that sympathizing with the plight of millions means the same as condoning the mindless violence of a few. I think I'm beginning to see what Sartre meant when he said 'hel_l is other people'. I'm sure you'd also agree, Mr Gonzo.

Cheers

H

Edited August 26, 2010 by hanuman1

[tomahawk]

I personally have no nickel in the outfit as far as reds and yellows are concerned. I cannot get too worked up about all this and think they are two gangs. However, I also have to agree redshirts here remind me of brownshirts in Germany. They are violent and there leaders sound like Hitler. I mistakenly ended up at one of their rallies in Phrae. Nazis had scapegoat, namely Jews, which they blamed all their problems on. The way these people looked at me made me wonder if I, meaning farang, is not their scapegoat. I think if reds get power many farang redshirt supporters will find the ones that they are in love with do not love them back. My wife is from Cambodia and many of her family killed by Khmer Rouge. She tells me she used to support them but now they scare her and remind her of KR, and not just because of the red clothes. Red shirts hate elites, and if you recall the whole Cambodia genoicide was aimed at eliminating all elites of cambodia.

[ogb]

I personally have no nickel in the outfit as far as reds and yellows are concerned. I cannot get too worked up about all this and think they are two gangs. However, I also have to agree redshirts here remind me of brownshirts in Germany. They are violent and there leaders sound like Hitler. I mistakenly ended up at one of their rallies in Phrae. Nazis had scapegoat, namely Jews, which they blamed all their problems on. The way these people looked at me made me wonder if I, meaning farang, is not their scapegoat. I think if reds get power many farang redshirt supporters will find the ones that they are in love with do not love them back. My wife is from Cambodia and many of her family killed by Khmer Rouge. She tells me she used to support them but now they scare her and remind her of KR, and not just because of the red clothes. Red shirts hate elites, and if you recall the whole Cambodia genoicide was aimed at eliminating all elites of cambodia.

Instead of villification, why not go speak with them in person (reds & yellows), and see for yourself who is scary and who is not?

The leader of the red rally last weekend does not exactly sound like Pol Pot to me.

[tijnebijn]

I personally have no nickel in the outfit as far as reds and yellows are concerned. I cannot get too worked up about all this and think they are two gangs. However, I also have to agree redshirts here remind me of brownshirts in Germany. They are violent and there leaders sound like Hitler. I mistakenly ended up at one of their rallies in Phrae. Nazis had scapegoat, namely Jews, which they blamed all their problems on. The way these people looked at me made me wonder if I, meaning farang, is not their scapegoat. I think if reds get power many farang redshirt supporters will find the ones that they are in love with do not love them back. My wife is from Cambodia and many of her family killed by Khmer Rouge. She tells me she used to support them but now they scare her and remind her of KR, and not just because of the red clothes. Red shirts hate elites, and if you recall the whole Cambodia genoicide was aimed at eliminating all elites of cambodia.

It is ofcourse rediculous to compare the redshirts with the genocide periods by the regimes of the Khmers and the nazi's . The redshirts might have a peculiar way of protesting , as Thailand has its peculiar way of dong politics on every side .

But to compare them with regimes who killed literally millions of people ...

Only thing I can say that you have a bitty witty of a too simplistic way of looking at this movement .

[rixalex]

It appears that sympathizing with the plight of millions means the same as condoning the mindless violence of a few.

What has supporting the red movement got to do with sympathizing with the plight of millions?

[tijnebijn]

I personally have no nickel in the outfit as far as reds and yellows are concerned. I cannot get too worked up about all this and think they are two gangs. However, I also have to agree redshirts here remind me of brownshirts in Germany. They are violent and there leaders sound like Hitler. I mistakenly ended up at one of their rallies in Phrae. Nazis had scapegoat, namely Jews, which they blamed all their problems on. The way these people looked at me made me wonder if I, meaning farang, is not their scapegoat. I think if reds get power many farang redshirt supporters will find the ones that they are in love with do not love them back. My wife is from Cambodia and many of her family killed by Khmer Rouge. She tells me she used to support them but now they scare her and remind her of KR, and not just because of the red clothes. Red shirts hate elites, and if you recall the whole Cambodia genoicide was aimed at eliminating all elites of cambodia.

I even greened you for that ...accidentally it was

[hanuman1]

It appears that sympathizing with the plight of millions means the same as condoning the mindless violence of a few.

What has supporting the red movement got to do with sympathizing with the plight of millions?

Okay, I'll try to explain:

Group A - At least 2 million (hence 'millions') of rural and urban poor who now feel disenfranchised from the political process of their own country and ignored in terms of being able to express their views on any social and work issues effecting their lives.

Group B - Red Shirt protesters, numbering 10,000's - 100,000's nationwide who have the same gripes as Group A but are more readily motivated to demonstrate. Less than 1% of these consider violence as sometimes appropriate.

I sympathize with group A, and understand and accept group B, apart from the 1% who advocate violence, which I abhor as much as anyone else does.

Hoping this answered your question and didn't confuse those simple souls of the 'Black-and-White School Of Lazy Thinking' who can't seem to understand that having sympathy for a viewpoint is NOT the same as wanting to perpetrate violence in order to get it through to people.

Edited August 26, 2010 by hanuman1

[hanuman1]

... snip ...The Black Shirts aka Red Shirts have been given permission together at Chiang Mai City Hall tomorrow for a peaceful protest.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun GotLost,

Tomorrow (26th.) may be an "interesting day:" through the red-tinted looking glass it may be seen as a day to condemn the"anniversary" of the PAD's occupation of government offices, the beginning of the protests that culminated in the airport seizure. We read that they will wear black to protest against "double standards."

Through the yellow-tinted looking glass: tomorrow is General Prem Tinsulanonda's birthday (now head of the Royal Privy Council, he'll be 90). We read the PAD leaders and supporters facing charges as a result of their demonstrations will surrender themselves to the CSD tomorrow which, to them, is an "auspicious" day.

We hope for peace in Chiang Mai on this "double-edged" day.

best, ~o:37;

Hi

I'm glad to confirm that at the time of writing this, the Red (Black) Shirt 'protest' has apparently already passed off peacefully.

No more than a hundred mindless thugs turned up at Sala Klang and handed over a letter to a representative of the governor in an incredibly menacing way. They then briefly threatened to go home - a threat they had no qualms about following through only minutes later.

Throughout the inconvenient 40-minute ordeal for municipal workers, the Redhsirts remained defiant in their bid to avoid trouble and even as shocking violence threatened to terrorize innocent bystanders when a glass of beer was accidentally spilt over someone's newly-ironed shirt, unidentified terrorists were able to stay calm and proceed with their deliberately antagonistic withdrawal home.

Well thank the Lord for that.

H.

(Seriously, though, it has actually ended with less than 100 in attendance according to those that were there earlier today).

Edited August 26, 2010 by hanuman1

[rixalex]

It appears that sympathizing with the plight of millions means the same as condoning the mindless violence of a few.

What has supporting the red movement got to do with sympathizing with the plight of millions?

Okay, I'll try to explain:

Group A - At least 2 million (hence 'millions') of rural and urban poor who now feel disenfranchised from the political process of their own country and ignored in terms of being able to express their views on any social and work issues effecting their lives.

Group B - Red Shirt protesters, numbering 10,000's - 100,000's nationwide who have the same gripes as Group A but are more readily motivated to demonstrate. Less than 1% of these consider violence as sometimes appropriate.

I sympathize with group A, and understand and accept group B, apart from the 1% who advocate violence, which I abhor as much as anyone else does.

Hoping this answered your question and didn't confuse those simple souls of the 'Black-and-White School Of Lazy Thinking' who can't seem to understand that having sympathy for a viewpoint is NOT the same as wanting to perpetrate violence in order to get it through to people.

Thanks for the answer but my question was what has supporting the red movement got to do with sympathizing with the plight of millions? There are millions of Thais up and down the country who have good right to complain about the way they have been treated. Some of them are members of the red movement, some of the yellow, some are members of the local football team, some are not members of anything... my support goes to all of them who have real grievances and all those in need. I support them. Supporting them however does not require me to support any movement they may choose to be involved in, be it the red movement, the yellow movement or indeed their local football team. And i don't. Why? Because none of those movements really gives a crap about them. They are a lie... and they play football really badly.

[chiangmaiexpat]

It's unfortunate that political conflict flares up again here in Chiang Mai. It's to the disadvantage of everybody, especially the local tourism and hospitality industry. I have difficulties with understanding foreigners who sympathise with the red shirts. Judging from their brief history, they have shown themselves to be violent, ruthless, and manipulative. While this does surely not apply to every supporter/member of the red shirts, one must suffer from a real lack of sound judgement to justify their acts.

The red shirts have no grievances other than wanting a piece of power-and-money cake, preferably a big one, and preferably by bringing back their corrupt leader Tacky Vinagra, so he can splash out cash in the villages again. This is an understandable goal, though not a noble one, especially for those population groups who have traditionally been stinted of these items. But pleeaasse, try doing it the legal way by education and pursuing a professional career, not by corruption and setting fire to city buildings.

Cheers, CMX

[tomahawk]

Firstly nazis and khmer rouge did not start right off killing people. First there was a lot of talking and organizing and recruiting. Second I would not bother to wander around Chiang mai talking to redshirts and yellowshirts. This sounds like something a nut would do. I see the actions of both these groups which is enough to convince me I do not wish to hang out with either of them. Just the whole stupidity of the business with the shirts is enough to convince one not to bother with them. Only people I know dressing in colors are gang members, not political parties. Whoever is in charge will be the ones with the power and this they will use to their own advantage to enrich themselves at the expense of everyone else. Whether the people doing this are wearing yellow or red or green, who cares? In the end they are all the same. I believe redshirts will win in election, and a year after that the same people who are saying how wonderful they are now will be calling for their downfall.

[gotlost]

Bangkok Post reports on breaking news that only 100 showed up at Chiang Mia City Hall for protest.

[hanuman1]

I believe redshirts will win in election, and a year after that the same people who are saying how wonderful they are now will be calling for their downfall.

Bingo! You just described a process which often takes place in the most developed democracies in the world, and which is as close to the 'true' democracy that the redshirts want as possible (provided that the 'downfall' is conducted via democratic means i.e. not military coups, judicial coups or burning buildings).

And before you go on to rightly say that reds burning buildings isn't democratic, (for the umpteenth time: ) those were the actions of less than 1% of the redshirt activists and naturally should be condemned.

Edited August 26, 2010 by hanuman1

[Sao Jiang Mai]

I think you may be right. When the time comes for the next election the Reds may get a slight majority, it will still be a coalition government, hopefully their hands will be somewhat tied and with the newly alerted society of scrutinsation, perhaps we can all move on four years later...the reality is that none of us could have forseen the political developments over the last decade. I am fascinated to see how it all pans out, afraid, concerned, but fascinated. Intriguing times indeed.

I am just a tad concerned at the dribble of Thai tourists who are coming here compared to the past (2 million a year) I don't know the current numbers but TAT says it is very down. This is worrying as Thais are by far the highest numbers of tourists coming to CM, our CM reds have pissed off a lot of potential tourists, and the entire city/province is paying for it.

[ChiangMaiFun]

It appears that sympathizing with the plight of millions means the same as condoning the mindless violence of a few.

What has supporting the red movement got to do with sympathizing with the plight of millions?

Okay, I'll try to explain:

Group A - At least 2 million (hence 'millions') of rural and urban poor who now feel disenfranchised from the political process of their own country and ignored in terms of being able to express their views on any social and work issues effecting their lives.

Group B - Red Shirt protesters, numbering 10,000's - 100,000's nationwide who have the same gripes as Group A but are more readily motivated to demonstrate. Less than 1% of these consider violence as sometimes appropriate.

I sympathize with group A, and understand and accept group B, apart from the 1% who advocate violence, which I abhor as much as anyone else does.

Hoping this answered your question and didn't confuse those simple souls of the 'Black-and-White School Of Lazy Thinking' who can't seem to understand that having sympathy for a viewpoint is NOT the same as wanting to perpetrate violence in order to get it through to people.

This entirely my position too - I have consistently abhorred the violence yet understood the ‘why’ – at the pinnacle of the furnace in Krung Thep I was ridiculed for ‘understanding the why’ and defending it - but clearly not supporting the minority violent means which I believe is counter productive and plain wrong.

I am convinced that a counter-culture is emerging – and will continue to emerge – whilst the poor start to wake up to the fact they do not have to ‘take it’ from the manipulative rich. This isn’t going away…

[rixalex]

Bingo! You just described a process which often takes place in the most developed democracies in the world, and which is as close to the 'true' democracy that the redshirts want as possible (provided that the 'downfall' is conducted via democratic means i.e. not military coups, judicial coups or burning buildings).

The red shirt movement doesn't care about what you describe as being "true" democracy any more than their arch rivals. All they care about is getting power.

If they cared about democracy they would have respected the fact that like it or not, Abhisit came to power in a totally legal manner and should be allowed to see out his term. After his term, they get their say. That's democracy. Trying to force the entire country to acquiese to what they want by holding Bangkok to ransom is not. It's no different from the coup which they claim to oppose.

Yeah right. Oppose my arse (oops, that sounded wierd). If Anupong mounted a coup tomorrow and threw Abhisit out the reds to a man would be out on the streets celebrating, and don't tell me they wouldn't.

[hanuman1]

Bingo! You just described a process which often takes place in the most developed democracies in the world, and which is as close to the 'true' democracy that the redshirts want as possible (provided that the 'downfall' is conducted via democratic means i.e. not military coups, judicial coups or burning buildings).

The red shirt movement doesn't care about what you describe as being "true" democracy any more than their arch rivals. All they care about is getting power.

If they cared about democracy they would have respected the fact that like it or not, Abhisit came to power in a totally legal manner and should be allowed to see out his term. After his term, they get their say. That's democracy. Trying to force the entire country to acquiese to what they want by holding Bangkok to ransom is not. It's no different from the coup which they claim to oppose.

Yeah right. Oppose my arse (oops, that sounded wierd). If Anupong mounted a coup tomorrow and threw Abhisit out the reds to a man would be out on the streets celebrating, and don't tell me they wouldn't.

Please rest assured, I don't want to do anything at all with your arse I'm inclined to agree though that if there were a coup now the reds would probably celebrate under the principle of 'two wrongs (read coups) making a right'. Now, whether two wrongs actually do make a right is a moral question and open to debate. If a person thinks two wrongs make a right, should a person who thinks otherwise feel morally superior? Let us stroke our beards thoughtfully and discuss....

Edited August 26, 2010 by hanuman1

[Jingthing]

If a person thinks two wrongs make a right, should a person who thinks otherwise feel morally superior? Let us stroke our beards thoughtfully and discuss....

Let me check ... YES!