Thailand One Big Retirement Home

[MrJohnson]

Putting aside the temptation to run off more amusing sides of Thailand's aging expat community and turning to a more serious note, to my mind the single biggest issue facing aging expats is the lack of legal frameworks (in particular Trust Law) to provide them with the protection so many of us need as we loose our memories and mental abilities with age.

It's common enough to hear Expats explain how they keep very close control of the family finances - advice to do so is frequently given here on TV, but what happens when the aging expat can no longer control things, contact banks, pension companies, investment banks etc?

The man who married a woman who lacks the language and skills to deal with things, or married a woman who has never been trusted with the family finances, perhaps married a woman on the basis of a financial transaction or perhaps worst of all is not married, has no family here and has nobody to turn to?

lovelomsak is right of course, the rewards of retirement in Thailand can be enormous, but they come at a very high risk when health or mental abilities eventually fail as they must - There is no safety net, there are no social services to turn to and of course there is no guarantee of a dignified death.

Under these circumstances an expat has to be very very sure of that he can trust those around him to do the right thing when he himself can nolonger help himself.

How many I wonder fail to attain any kind of real trust, let alone the trust required to put one's life, welfare and life savings all into the same basket?!

very thoughtful post

[slapout]

Now for all you young whipper snappers who are having a go at us old/retired geezers increase in numbers. With each passing year, I note the increase of juveniles/youngsters here in the LOS. Youth can be a wonderful time, full of optimism, observant almost to a fault, and learning. You just have to realize that as you mature/age the number of old folks you notice decreases and those youngsters seem to be hatching out like rabbits. I figure when your youngest drinking mate is 80, the youngsters will have taken over.

The adult nappies are here, as are a few old folk facilities, so you are already behind in your business quest.

[Will1]

Putting aside the temptation to run off more amusing sides of Thailand's aging expat community and turning to a more serious note, to my mind the single biggest issue facing aging expats is the lack of legal frameworks (in particular Trust Law) to provide them with the protection so many of us need as we loose our memories and mental abilities with age.

It's common enough to hear Expats explain how they keep very close control of the family finances - advice to do so is frequently given here on TV, but what happens when the aging expat can no longer control things, contact banks, pension companies, investment banks etc?

The man who married a woman who lacks the language and skills to deal with things, or married a woman who has never been trusted with the family finances, perhaps married a woman on the basis of a financial transaction or perhaps worst of all is not married, has no family here and has nobody to turn to?

lovelomsak is right of course, the rewards of retirement in Thailand can be enormous, but they come at a very high risk when health or mental abilities eventually fail as they must - There is no safety net, there are no social services to turn to and of course there is no guarantee of a dignified death.

Under these circumstances an expat has to be very very sure of that he can trust those around him to do the right thing when he himself can nolonger help himself.

How many I wonder fail to attain any kind of real trust, let alone the trust required to put one's life, welfare and life savings all into the same basket?!

very thoughtful post

So true, but who can you trust.

[GuestHouse]

So true, but who can you trust.

Well I would suggest people know the answer to who they don't trust, as witnessed by behaviour of holding on to the purse strings, but are they willing to accept the truth of what they already know?

As a general rule, I'd say if a relationship started out with a financial transaction then it's a pretty fair bet that the availability of finances shall remain the motivation for the relationship to continue. Then what happens when the finances can no longer be accessed, or the need to go through the intermediary supplying them no longer exists?!

[salty]

Actually, Thailand needs more retirement homes for expats. We are here and all getting older, the services on offer for the expat elderly are actually quite thin on the ground. Think business opportunity.

I think you are right.

I'm about to fire an email off to the manufacturer's of adult disposable diapers to see if I can collar the Franchise for Thailand - Can you think of any other 'Age' business oportunities?

So lets recap on what is needed for the, Old Boys.

Retirement home

funeral parlour

disposable nappies

lets see if we can think of more things that is needed.

Hearing Aids.

[lovelomsak]

Can you trust anyone anywhere in the world North America is one of the worst places for parents abuse in old age. When we are old and unable to take care of ourselves or our finances does it really matter if it is strangers or relatives enjoying your networth?You willnot even be aware.

Also I believe most guys die quickly anyways. Have a stroke or heart attack or join the flying club.The chances of being in Thailand old and totally dependent on some one else to take care of me is quite great. How many guys do you see in that situation now or have heard of? For me none.Also the guys who are worried about old age care usually go back to their home countries when they are getting frail.

That said I do have my plan B. Which is to soon hire a caregiver pay a monthly salary, that wil be suitable to keep her with great benefits for her. Keep her till I die. Take her to Canada meet the family see my personal banker and set up everything financially. Then simply live. If things go sideways I did my best. The only bad senario from this I can see is the caregiver treats me poorly till I die and I made a miatake. If she treats me well no problems. If I die and she is able to hide it somehow from Candian sources to find out and they keep paying her more power to her.

I actually have a post up about caregiver here but no response as of yet from anyone.

The rent a wife thing just has to many problems . Just hire out employess is the way to go I think.

[yabaaaa]

Actually, Thailand needs more retirement homes for expats. We are here and all getting older, the services on offer for the expat elderly are actually quite thin on the ground. Think business opportunity.

I think you are right.

I'm about to fire an email off to the manufacturer's of adult disposable diapers to see if I can collar the Franchise for Thailand - Can you think of any other 'Age' business oportunities?

Electric buggies ...........all the rage for the elderly in the UK

[mrtoad]

Actually, Thailand needs more retirement homes for expats. We are here and all getting older, the services on offer for the expat elderly are actually quite thin on the ground. Think business opportunity.

Maybe so, but companies with experience in this sector, who would offer 1st class care have been put off from investing in Thailand with the recent political activities of both Yellow and Red shirts. Samitivej were certainly considering it previously , but that may have changed as the person looking at that option has since resigned from there, so not sure what there direction is at present.

[tombkk]

Putting aside the temptation to run off more amusing sides of Thailand's aging expat community and turning to a more serious note, to my mind the single biggest issue facing aging expats is the lack of legal frameworks (in particular Trust Law) to provide them with the protection so many of us need as we loose our memories and mental abilities with age.

It's common enough to hear Expats explain how they keep very close control of the family finances - advice to do so is frequently given here on TV, but what happens when the aging expat can no longer control things, contact banks, pension companies, investment banks etc?

The man who married a woman who lacks the language and skills to deal with things, or married a woman who has never been trusted with the family finances, perhaps married a woman on the basis of a financial transaction or perhaps worst of all is not married, has no family here and has nobody to turn to?

lovelomsak is right of course, the rewards of retirement in Thailand can be enormous, but they come at a very high risk when health or mental abilities eventually fail as they must - There is no safety net, there are no social services to turn to and of course there is no guarantee of a dignified death.

Under these circumstances an expat has to be very very sure of that he can trust those around him to do the right thing when he himself can nolonger help himself.

How many I wonder fail to attain any kind of real trust, let alone the trust required to put one's life, welfare and life savings all into the same basket?!

very thoughtful post

I agree. After 20 years in Thailand and over 7 years of a relationship with a Thai-Chinese, I am putting my eggs in one basket.

I also do recommend against this same behaviour frequently, usually if the relationship is less than a year old.

[tombkk]

There was indeed a recent news item coming from one of the Pattaya expat clubs making a strong point that a western style funeral service was sorely needed, and practically begging someone with that background to start one.

If you want a Western-style funeral, it can be arranged. I was at a beautiful Catholic funeral in Nakorn Nayok last year. The "only" sad part was that it was my (farang) friend who was being burried.

[tombkk]

Actually, Thailand needs more retirement homes for expats. We are here and all getting older, the services on offer for the expat elderly are actually quite thin on the ground. Think business opportunity.

I'm not sure I agree.

In Western countries, retirement homes are needed, because nobody would care about the elderly. Over here, it is affordable to get an in-house nurse.

The retirement homes for expats I see in Thailand usually charge Western prices, which is a rip-off over here. If you think "business opportunity", you might be in for some some big profits, good luck.

[Beetlejuice]

Actually, Thailand needs more retirement homes for expats. We are here and all getting older, the services on offer for the expat elderly are actually quite thin on the ground. Think business opportunity.

I think you are right.

I'm about to fire an email off to the manufacturer's of adult disposable diapers to see if I can collar the Franchise for Thailand - Can you think of any other 'Age' business oportunities?

Electric buggies ...........all the rage for the elderly in the UK

Oh yea? Try using one on those in Thailand and see how far you will get.

Smashed to pieces by a motorcyclist or car coming out of a back alley, crushed to a pulp by the double barrelled articulated truck when the driver fails to see you, break your neck trying to negotiate those 2 foot high kerbs, broken pavements and pot holes the size of moon craters.

No way, would never work in Thailand. I wonder if someone could invent a hover buggy? Now there is a real business challenge.

[moe666]

My work will take me out of Chiang Mai and to Bangkok in a couple of weeks. Thank you god.

Being in Chiang Mai is like living in one big old peoples home. Grumpy old farangs that look the other way. Perhaps they have past history that they would rather keep to themselves.

A good business in Chiang Mai would be to open a funeral parlour. But they do seem to hang on once they get here.Maybe do better with a hospice, a type of death row while they are waiting for a visit from the grim reaper.

I thought about that at a funeral in Chiang Mai the other week, there isn't a service that leases out funeral cars, it was a bit undignified to put the coffin in the back of a minibus and take it to the crematorium. An Funeral car business would make money in Chiang Mai definatley.

Cremation seems they only way to dispose of a body here, what about a grave yard?

plenty of chinese grave yards.

[moe666]

Dignified death, I think that is a oxymoron, maybe if you just fall down dead like a friend did a few years ago. Usually people are shuttled to and from the hospital for months if not years trying every medicine and treatment to eek out a few more days in a catatonic state not knowing those who visit or caring. Unable to care for ones self in the basic needs

sh--ing in ones diaper and unable to feed yourself. pray tell what is dignified in that exisistence and finally the sweet release of death to our true state of being.

Just hope I donot forget the combination to the gun safe.

[IanForbes]

dam_n; this topic is getting scary! It's coming much quicker than I hoped! Where did that delightful last 14 years go? Just glad my ex-wives left as soon as they did.

It's been a thoughtful discussion about the realities of life. And, it's something we all have to go through at some point in the game. It's been a blast and I ain't asking for my money back.

[thaifkrlim]

where is the most reputable farang graveyard in Thailand, are there any?

[elliss]

yes there are many retired folk living in thailand .

living of their pensions private and goverment ,

along with their hard earned savings / investments .

it is a great life ,, not having to do a lowly job like teaching etc.

to earn a pittance , but there for the grace of ,,,, etc

i think it gives a poor impression , farangs having to work , in LOS..

is the OP , a member of the jealous brigade ??

p.s. i am happy to be a dirty old farang ,,, with money .

LOL :jap:

[jazzbo]

As a 'Trust' is not a legal entity in Thailand, you can set-up a Trust in your home country -- or say Singapore -- with a Trustee and then have a correspondent relationship with a bank or lawyer in Thailand -- so that each month's expenses are available in Thailand and not more than those monthly expenses.

When a Trust is established, your legal status becomes as 'Beneficiary' of the Trust.

Edited August 23, 2010 by jazzbo

[Will1]

yes there are many retired folk living in thailand .

living of their pensions private and goverment ,

along with their hard earned savings / investments .

it is a great life ,, not having to do a lowly job like teaching etc.

to earn a pittance , but there for the grace of ,,,, etc

i think it gives a poor impression , farangs having to work , in LOS..

is the OP , a member of the jealous brigade ??

p.s. i am happy to be a dirty old farang ,,, with money .

LOL :jap:

Yeah so jealous, my life is nearly over. NOT

Well it is sad, has to Happen to everyone unfortunately some sooner than others.

[tombkk]

where is the most reputable farang graveyard in Thailand, are there any?

I am not aware that there are ay graveyards in Thailand catering only to farangs. Doesn't sound appealing to me either.

[Richb2004v2]

I took part in the Pattaya marathon a few years ago. It started very early in the morning, around 5:30 - 6:00. The course took us through the bar zone. As I ran along I saw many scenes that in the west would have included a young man and women. In Pattaya there were the same scenes but with elderly men. It was like a parallel universe. It was quite funny to see.

[billd766]

Actually, Thailand needs more retirement homes for expats. We are here and all getting older, the services on offer for the expat elderly are actually quite thin on the ground. Think business opportunity.

I think you are right.

I'm about to fire an email off to the manufacturer's of adult disposable diapers to see if I can collar the Franchise for Thailand - Can you think of any other 'Age' business oportunities?

Electric buggies ...........all the rage for the elderly in the UK

I have a Honda Phantom with training wheels

[billd766]

where is the most reputable farang graveyard in Thailand, are there any?

I am not aware that there are ay graveyards in Thailand catering only to farangs. Doesn't sound appealing to me either.

When you are dead and buried does it really matter who is in the same graveyard as you?

[mark45y]

For 10 years I ran a retirement center for millionaires. One of the requirements for moving in was liquid assets of at least one million US dollars. 400 people lived there. Retired, artists, writers, politicians, business tycoons, inventors. The list was impressive and in the library there was a biography of each resident. I read them all. The guy who graded Hillary Clinton’s graduate thesis was there as well as the founder of public television and three of the primary engineers who made the first atomic bomb possible. There were people there who to settle an argument over lunch could have a phone brought to their table and get a direct connection to the White House. I have never seen so many people who had done so much and still had so much power even in their old age.

What wasn’t there was happiness. One retired doctor, a famous brain surgeon, a Greek guy who had built a Greek Orthodox church (cost millions) could not get a ride to the church he built on Sunday’s. He was never visited by his two sons, also doctors. He was very worried about his wife who had Alzheimer’s. He was afraid his boys, the doctors, would not take care of her when he died.

Attached to the retirement center was a nursing home to care for the residents after hospital procedures or for any emergencies. We had four nurses for every patient.

Most nursing homes smell of piss. Ours didn’t. The care 24/7 was the best money could buy. Still there was no happiness. The old people explained to me that rich folks are not the same as poor folks. They don’t take care of their parents. They send them off to geriatric palaces, like I was managing to die and forget about them.

The old women didn’t do too bad. The still played bridge and had cocktail parties. With 400 people I averaged 18 cocktail parties every weekend night. They drank a lot. Not beer or wine it was the cocktail generation.

I’d assign a nurse to take them back to their suites after they got drunk. They got drunk a lot.

We averaged two or three jumpers a year and a number of suicides by plastic bag and things like that. They were not happy campers. There was a Russian guy there, I’ll call him Mr. T He escaped from Russia as a child and crossed a river that had turned red from the blood of the thousands of people shot in it while trying to escape. He was one of the few lucky ones. He held 28 patents in the petrochemical business. One day he offered a nurse $5,000 dollars to take a shower with him. A big fat nurse. She freaked out and almost had him kicked out of the place. But he had more money than god so he stayed.

I think a lot about Mr. T. He was a fun old guy. He had a lot of stories. But he was sad.

I was sitting in Noi bar in Pattaya a couple of years ago when Jack was chased across the street by a bottle wielding princess from Issan. Bum a big fat waitress from the same part of the country rescued him with a right cross to the jaw of his attacker. Knocked her right out there in the middle of the street. Bum was a good old girl. They called her Bum because she liked, well, ah, lets just say she knew an ear syringe is really a multipurpose tool.

Jack was happy to be saved and he had just gotten his pension check so he was flush for a week and bought everyone in the bar drinks. Jack got drunk as usual and we put him on the back of a motorcycle with a bar girl behind him so he wouldn’t’ fall off. Between the girl and the motorcycle driver they got Jack home and in bed. Since this happened ten times a month it was a regular performance.

Jack was happy. Jack died a few weeks later. He was drunk at home and fell down and hit his head on the coffee table. They found him a couple of day later.

I am not making anything up. The retirement center I managed was always listed as one of the top 5 retirement centers in the world. But no one was happy. Sure there are jumpers in Pattaya but by and large the old folks are 100% happier and better off than the ones in retirement centers or nursing homes regardless of how expensive. They should also legalize opiates for anyone over 80 years of age. Who cares. What, are they afraid they are going to get addicted?

I think a lot more about these kinds than the average person because I spent so much time in a retirement center and put my mother in one after home care almost broke my bank account and her third stroke made home care extremely difficult. I spent $250,000 on my mothers home care. I could use the cash now but that’s life. As much as we had talked and made living wills when the end came I still told the doctors to hook her up to tubes and prolong her life. (that means the living wills and all that nonsense don’t really amount to a hill of beans). But she died anyway. So I have no guilt and she is happier (you know what I mean) being dead.

I’m a slow learner, I watched the old folks business for 10 years but I am sure the average person could get enough experience just working in one for a few months. Pattaya with all its danger is a better choice.

Perhaps that is why I react or should say over react at the Pattaya bashers or the old age bashers or at the sex nazi’s.

The reason retirement homes won’t work here on any kind of large scale is health insurance. For old folks in the US and I assume UK and Australia and most parts of Europe health care for old people is free. In the US when the hospital breaks your bank and takes your millions for bills, Medicaid steps in and cares for you for free when you have no money left. They put you in a nursing home, if there is any room, and pay all the bills for daily living and hospital care.

[astral]

Age structure

0-14 years: 20.8% (male 7,013,877/female 6,690,554)

15-64 years: 70.5% (male 23,000,156/female 23,519,298)

65 years and over: 8.7% (male 2,612,269/female 3,162,282) (2009 est.)

http://www.indexmundi.com/thailand/demographics_profile.html

[GuestHouse]

I am not making anything up.

[Tonto21]

Actually, Thailand needs more retirement homes for expats. We are here and all getting older, the services on offer for the expat elderly are actually quite thin on the ground. Think business opportunity.

I think you are right.

I'm about to fire an email off to the manufacturer's of adult disposable diapers to see if I can collar the Franchise for Thailand - Can you think of any other 'Age' business oportunities?

Humbugs, soft boiled vegetables and high wasted trousers....For a start.

[GuestHouse]

I do not in anyway dispute that an old people's home is way down the list on providing happiness (though I'm sure there are many old people who are happy in old people's homes, perhaps more so in 'sheltered housing').

I do take issue with your statistics which, in the absence of hard evidence, are unbelievable.

You are right, the company of family and friends is hugely important in happiness - I think that is demonstrated for all ages. But to what extent to old people moving to Thailand establish real friendship or relationships that are not simply based on the money the old guy is providing?

As I've pointed out earlier in this thread - the evidence his here on TV that it is common place for expats not to trust their Thai spouse/girlfriend with access to bank accounts and savings.

What happens then when, as will inevitably happen for so many, the old guy looses the ability to deal with the finances, to deal with the bank, transferring money, contacting pension funds?

I've made these points above, the point is that while Thailand offers fun and frolics for the healthy and sound of mind, it is a minefield for those who find themselves in need of the constant assistance of others.

So many guys admit to not having established a trusting relationship here in Thailand, often pointing out this as a failing of the relationship they are in and remain in - Yet then fail to figure out were they are heading, what lies ahead for them.

It is not that fun can be had, we all know this. It is that the fun comes with a huge risk that many either have not considered or are keen to deny.

An old people's home back home doesn't sound appealing - but it will not be long before we are reading stories of expats here in Thailand who, unable to look after themselves in old age are suffering something far worse.

[mark45y]

Perhaps you are correct but I remember reading about an old person who died in a nursing home only two blocks away from my house in Florida, on an island, of fire ant bites. The nurses were over worked and did not notice as fire ants killed this old person. I'll take my chances here.

[GuestHouse]

Perhaps you are correct but I remember reading about an old person who died in a nursing home only two blocks away from my house in Florida, on an island, of fire ant bites. The nurses were over worked and did not notice as fire ants killed this old person. I'll take my chances here.

I wish you the very best of luck.