Moscow Decries Washington's Viktor Bout Ballyhoo

[webfact]

Moscow decries Washington's 'ballyhoo'

By The Nation

Russia says bilateral ties on thin ice; Abhisit leaves decision up to court

The United States is pushing to secure the extradition of Russian suspected arms dealer Viktor Bout, while Moscow insists that the "ballyhoo" created by Washington might affect Russia-US relations.

Thailand, meanwhile, is under pressure from both sides to make a decision on Bout's next destination. Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has said it is up to the court to decide whether Bout should go or stay.

On August 20, the Appeals Court ruled that Bout be extradited to the United States to face charges of supplying weapons to international terrorist organisations. Though he should be on his way to the US, the court cannot let him go until Washington withdraws the charge of money-laundering pressed against him.

Washington has sent the documentation to withdraw the second charge, but the request has not yet reached the court.

Bout's lawyer Lak Nittiwattanawichan, meanwhile, lodged a petition with Abhisit asking him to exercise his executive powers to stop the extradition.

"I will consider his reasons and make the decision in line with the court's ruling," Abhisit said.

"If the court disagrees with the withdrawal of the second charge, he will end up staying in Thailand longer."

Lak also slammed the United States for "showing off its power" by keeping a government jet on standby in Bangkok at all times to take Bout back. US State Department spokesman Philip Crowley said Washington was looking forward to seeing Bout in a courtroom in the US.

Meanwhile, the Russian Foreign Ministry's deputy director of the information and the press department, Vladimir Kozin, said in an article in The Moscow Times that the government would continue offering all possible assistance to the suspect with the ultimate aim of securing his release and taking him back home.

"Taking into account Moscow's firm support of Bout, who remains innocent under US, Thai and Russian law, the ballyhoo created by Washington might inevitably effect Russian-US relations to the detriment of the US efforts to 'reset' them," Kozin's article in the English-language paper read.

The case is unfair and Bout must be freed, Kozin said in the article headlined "Ballyhoo over nothing" and published on Thursday.

Thanee Thongphakdee, deputy spokesman for the Thai Foreign Ministry, said a request for the withdrawal of the US money-laundering charge would be forwarded to the Court of Appeals through a joint communiqué with the Office of the Attorney-General (OAG) by next week.

Sirisak Tiyaphan, prosecutor-general of the OAG's international affairs department, said the government needed to have solid reasons not to extradite Bout once the three-month deadline is reached.

"It's too late for the government to be looking for reasons to hold Bout back, because the withdrawal of the money-laundering charge is being processed and the paperwork is just steps away from getting him extradited," he said.

-- The Nation 2010-08-28

Related topic:

[SomTumTiger]

Merchant of Death should slip on some soap in the shower - problem solved.

[tominbkk]

Merchant of Death should slip on some soap in the shower - problem solved.

Let him slip after his brain has been scraped of any and all valuable information that may be in there!

[craigt3365]

Moscow is afraid of what Bout will reveal to save his butt if he ends up in court in the US. Bout has been responsible for too many deaths...he deserves his day in court, but not in Thailand nor in Moscow. At least in the US, he can hire a great lawyer and give it a go...

[asiawatcher]

Moscow is afraid of what Bout will reveal to save his butt if he ends up in court in the US. Bout has been responsible for too many deaths...he deserves his day in court, but not in Thailand nor in Moscow. At least in the US, he can hire a great lawyer and give it a go...

Agree - former KGB. But has it actually ever been established (or proven) Bout has in fact been the perpetrator he is accused of? Love to see the actual links for the read!

[craigt3365]

Moscow is afraid of what Bout will reveal to save his butt if he ends up in court in the US. Bout has been responsible for too many deaths...he deserves his day in court, but not in Thailand nor in Moscow. At least in the US, he can hire a great lawyer and give it a go...

Agree - former KGB. But has it actually ever been established (or proven) Bout has in fact been the perpetrator he is accused of? Love to see the actual links for the read!

I'm for sure no expert on this, but here is an interesting excerpt I found online:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From his base in Sharjah Bout ran his empire which also by 1995 included Africa. In 1995 he founded Air Cess in Liberia, this would mean the beginning of his grip on weapons supplying in Africa. Bout didn't care who he supplied with weapons or for what cause as long as people paid him his money. U.S. and U.N. officials say Bout airlifted thousands upon thousands of assault rifles, grenade and missile launchers and millions of ammunition rounds into Africa. Clients of Bout's companies include Angola, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Democratic Republic of Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Kenya, Liberia, Libya, Congo-Brazzaville, Rwanda, Sierra Leone, South Africa, Sudan, Swaziland and Uganda. You could almost say that without Bout there would be peace in Africa.

Most of the weapons that arrived in Africa came from Bulgaria where Bout had made frequent trips between 1995 and 2000. In 2000 Bout was seen visiting six weapons factories there. Between July 1997 and September 1998 Bout organized 38 flights with weapons shipments worth an estimated $14 million dollars to African nations. In the summer of 2000 four of Bout's planes landed in Liberia with weapons on board. The shipments contained helicopters, armored vehicles, anti aircraft guns and automatic rifles. By now ofcourse law enforcement was beginning to understand Bout's place in the world af arms dealing and decided to take him down, something that would be more difficult than thought at first.

Now here is another interesting statement:

------------------------------------------

By now the U.S. and Interpol were looking everywhere but couldn't find him, the United Arab Emirates were hesitant to cooperate but eventually caved in although one can only guess if they really did. And even if they did Bout was always safe in his homeland Russia where corrupt officials knew how to hide a man like Bout. Russia was asked by the U.S. and Interpol to deliver Bout and at the height of the tension Moscow decided to give a press conference in which they said that Bout wasn't in Russia. It turned out to be an enormous blunder because at exact the same time as the Moscow press conference Bout was giving his own conference at Moscow radio station Ekho Moskvy in a live interview in which he claimed his innocense and told that he "was just a businessman".

And here is why they have had problems getting him. He is smart and well connected:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By now Bout had made the political connections and money that made him almost untouchable. And on top of that, the law enforcement units didn't even have any proof. While investigating Bout's empire several of the law enforcement units went crazy. Bout's empire was a maze of people, companies, planes and routes. It was impossible to check where and when Bout's planes flew and which planes belonged to him. Bout kept moving himself and his companies around and had nothing registrated in his own name. When they finally had the evidence to charge him Bout was protected by high placed U.A.E. royalty and officials such as Sultan Hamad Said Nassir al Suwaidi, advisor to the ruler of Sharjah, who apparently also co-owns one of Bout's companies.

So, a complicated case for sure. But the nail in the coffin for him was here in Thailand:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On March 6, 2008 Victor Bout was in a five star hotel in Bangkok, Thailand negotiating an arms deal worth millions. His buyers were members of the Colombian FARC, and they were eager to get the deal done. Bout was offering them more than 700 surface-to-air missiles, thousands of guns, high-tech helicopters, and airplanes outfitted with grenade launchers and missiles. Everything looked perfect for Bout, just another smooth deal, like so many others he had organized throughout the past twenty years. But unbeknownst to him, the FARC rebels actually were undercover agents part of an American-led sting operation.

Kinda hard to argue that this guy is innocent.....

Wikipedia has some interesting background on him also. And during my searches, his name pops up on websites discussing Russian mafia...many times!

[TAWP]

You could almost say that without Bout there would be peace in Africa.

Nonsense, one of the worst genocides in recent times in Africa was performed using machetes and clubs...if there is a will, there is a way.

[hammered]

The interesting thing is that apparently even after it became public knowledge as to what he is accused of being up to certain western powers including the one requesting extradition continued to use his companies services.

[hammered]

Without Bout nothing would have been different in Africa. There are plenty of Bouts in all arms producing countries and none of them have any morals.

And what Bout did may turn out to be totally illegal but ethically and morally however heinous it was it pales into insignificance besides what all of our own governments have done (if we come from arms dealign nations). Where did Saddam get the chemical agents to gas Kurds, Shias and Iranians? Where did the Taleban get..... Etc etc

[Thai at Heart]

Isn't it that part of the extradition case against him is that the weapons would be used to attack American forces who were assisting in fighting the FARC.

No one really gave too hoots about him shipping stuff to Africa, but it is the FARC deal that has got him into trouble. A deal which was a sting operation suggested by the USA. Thus, it would appear that he has never provably shipped guns to a group with the clear intent of them being used against American forces?

If the US agents had been posing as rebels from Africa wanting guns, would the US have been able to extradite him since there would have been no tangible link that his arms would have been used to injure Americans? All legally very tenuous.

[Robby nz]

Without Bout nothing would have been different in Africa. There are plenty of Bouts in all arms producing countries and none of them have any morals.

And what Bout did may turn out to be totally illegal but ethically and morally however heinous it was it pales into insignificance besides what all of our own governments have done (if we come from arms dealign nations). Where did Saddam get the chemical agents to gas Kurds, Shias and Iranians? Where did the Taleban get..... Etc etc

In both these cases they got their weapons from the good old US when they were considred allies, the Talaban fighting the Russisns and Saddam the Iranians.

Could it be the US is just trying to eliminate a competitor?

[OzMick]

Isn't it that part of the extradition case against him is that the weapons would be used to attack American forces who were assisting in fighting the FARC.

No one really gave too hoots about him shipping stuff to Africa, but it is the FARC deal that has got him into trouble. A deal which was a sting operation suggested by the USA. Thus, it would appear that he has never provably shipped guns to a group with the clear intent of them being used against American forces?

If the US agents had been posing as rebels from Africa wanting guns, would the US have been able to extradite him since there would have been no tangible link that his arms would have been used to injure Americans? All legally very tenuous.

Not tenuous in the least! A crime doesn't have to be committed if intent can be proved. Numerous cases of people seeking "hitmen" have been prosecuted, and in another, an Australian paedophile was "stung" by an FBI website offering child sexual services in Mexico. He was intercepted in the transit lounge on the way to Mexico, and convicted - which has a few parallels to gun dealing in Africa.

[TAWP]

'Intent' charges atleast involves accepting the offer and payment or trying to deliver the service / goods.

What we have here is just talks, sofar.

[OzMick]

'Intent' charges atleast involves accepting the offer and payment or trying to deliver the service / goods.

What we have here is just talks, sofar.

If a deal is struck, so many weapons for so many dollars, intent is obvious. Even if he couldn't supply, the intent is still there, unless he could prove he was attempting to defraud. Even there, perhaps. I vaguely remember where oregano was sold as marijuana, but the charge of dealing stood.

[WarpSpeed]

Moscow is afraid of what Bout will reveal to save his butt if he ends up in court in the US. Bout has been responsible for too many deaths...he deserves his day in court, but not in Thailand nor in Moscow. At least in the US, he can hire a great lawyer and give it a go...

Agree - former KGB. But has it actually ever been established (or proven) Bout has in fact been the perpetrator he is accused of? Love to see the actual links for the read!

That's the purpose of a trial eh? To determine guilt or innocence, you don't have the trail before the extradition except for representing evidence enough to the authorities involved to warrant the extradition.

[thaimelody]

Moscow is afraid of what Bout will reveal to save his butt if he ends up in court in the US. Bout has been responsible for too many deaths...he deserves his day in court, but not in Thailand nor in Moscow. At least in the US, he can hire a great lawyer and give it a go...

im sorry......................... but soap in the shower........saving his butt is this about mr bout or prison life in general

[thaimelody]

who in this century uses the word ballyhoo?

[Hakuchi]

Moscow is afraid of what Bout will reveal to save his butt if he ends up in court in the US.  Bout has been responsible for too many deaths...he deserves his day in court, but not in Thailand nor in Moscow.  At least in the US, he can hire a great lawyer and give it a go...

He was never before in the USA, nor did he support any terrorists groups that operate on the soil of the USA. Why he should go there now?

That isn't a question of what Moscow is maybe afraid of but simple not the business of the USA.

[OzMick]

Moscow is afraid of what Bout will reveal to save his butt if he ends up in court in the US. Bout has been responsible for too many deaths...he deserves his day in court, but not in Thailand nor in Moscow. At least in the US, he can hire a great lawyer and give it a go...

He was never before in the USA, nor did he support any terrorists groups that operate on the soil of the USA. Why he should go there now?

That isn't a question of what Moscow is maybe afraid of but simple not the business of the USA.

For some strange reason the US thinks that selling S-A missiles to a drug-dealing terrorist organization, who will use both the missiles and the drugs to kill US citizens and military personnel, is against their laws. If you disagree, you should put it in writing and send to Pres Obama, I'm sure he could use a good giggle.

[Thai at Heart]

Copy of US State Department Filing against Victor Bout

This appears genuine. Interesting read.

[Hakuchi]

He was never before in the USA, nor did he support any terrorists groups that operate on the soil of the USA. Why he should go there now?

That isn't a question of what Moscow is maybe afraid of but simple not the business of the USA.

For some strange reason the US thinks that selling S-A missiles to a drug-dealing terrorist organization, who will use both the missiles and the drugs to kill US citizens and military personnel, is against their laws. If you disagree, you should put it in writing and send to Pres Obama, I'm sure he could use a good giggle.

So its actually a war against drugs? Again not the problem nor the fault of Viktor Bout when Americans buy and take drugs.

In a different war, the war in Afghanistan, the opium and drug production is on the rise since America and their allies "liberated" Afghanistan from the Taliban. And just 3 decades ago the USA supplied the Taliban with lot of cool weapons to take Russian helicopters of the air.

Looks to me like that they are not the smartest people over there in the USA. And sometimes when you send your military abroad to kill foreigners, they get angry and hit back. Then Pres Obama will not giggle but be a cry baby.

[TAWP]

Well, yes, it is slightly odd that DEA would be the agency behind this, instead of ATF, FBI, OSI etc.

But then again, DEA isn't known to be restrictive in their approach of their purpose either, so it is only reasonable that they would overstep it whenever they see fit.

Edited August 28, 2010 by TAWP

[Jingthing]

Looks to me like that they are not the smartest people over there in the USA. And sometimes when you send your military abroad to kill foreigners, they get angry and hit back. Then Pres Obama will not giggle but be a cry baby.

You sound to me like an enemy of my nation. Please report ASAP to the proper authorities for questioning and processing. Next ...

[craigt3365]

Without Bout nothing would have been different in Africa. There are plenty of Bouts in all arms producing countries and none of them have any morals.

And what Bout did may turn out to be totally illegal but ethically and morally however heinous it was it pales into insignificance besides what all of our own governments have done (if we come from arms dealign nations). Where did Saddam get the chemical agents to gas Kurds, Shias and Iranians? Where did the Taleban get..... Etc etc

You are right on, my friend. It's a mess worldwide and every country is in it...mainly to make money! But if we just focus on Bout and his actions, I hope we can agree what he did was not right. The less Bout's we have in the world, the better. IMHO. :jap: Dealing with our governments who supply arms to all sorts of groups is an entirely different problem!!!!

Well, yes, it is slightly odd that DEA would be the agency behind this, instead of ATF, FBI, OSI etc.

But then again, DEA isn't known to be restrictive in their approach of their purpose either, so it is only reasonable that they would overstep it whenever they see fit.

As I posted in another thread, Al Capone was brought down due to tax issues...not due to his illegal import of booze, gambling, prostitution, killings for hire, etc. Taxes. Again, IMHO, if that's what it takes to nab a criminal, great! Hopefully, it makes our world a better place...

[Hakuchi]

Looks to me like that they are not the smartest people over there in the USA. And sometimes when you send your military abroad to kill foreigners, they get angry and hit back. Then Pres Obama will not giggle but be a cry baby.

You sound to me like an enemy of my nation. Please report ASAP to the proper authorities for questioning and processing. Next ...

You sound like posting while drunk to me.

Please next time report to the some Russians you may spot in your family vacation town and tell them face to face what you think about "Ruskies" and their country.

[Jingthing]

Looks to me like that they are not the smartest people over there in the USA. And sometimes when you send your military abroad to kill foreigners, they get angry and hit back. Then Pres Obama will not giggle but be a cry baby.

You sound to me like an enemy of my nation. Please report ASAP to the proper authorities for questioning and processing. Next ...

You sound like posting while drunk to me.

Please next time report to the some Russians you may spot in your family vacation town and tell them face to face what you think about "Ruskies" and their country.

Where did you get the impression that I am masochist? In any case, I do love borscht and pelmeni!

[chantorn]

Copy of US State Department Filing against Victor Bout

This appears genuine. Interesting read.

So obvious that this is a fake. No body use type-writer anymore. The document is from a type-writer.

[Jingthing]

Copy of US State Department Filing against Victor Bout

This appears genuine. Interesting read.

So obvious that this is a fake. No body use type-writer anymore. The document is from a type-writer.

In the small chance you aren't taking the piss, it appears to be a computer generated print-out. Duh.

[Naam]

Copy of US State Department Filing against Victor Bout

This appears genuine. Interesting read.

So obvious that this is a fake. No body use type-writer anymore. The document is from a type-writer.

impossible! the "Greatest Nation on Earth™" can't do no wrong and it is only a matter of time till FAUX News will present evidence that Victor Bout was the one who delivered those infamous weapons of mass destruction to Saddam Hussein.