Thai Catholic School Teacher Caught Caning Students

[Hakuchi]

I can't be bothered going through the exercise of looking, but it did cross my mind when reading through this thread as to whether there is any correlation between TV's resident "hang 'em high" mob, and this thread's "cane 'em hard - it never did me any harm" mob.

I do the Buchholz and quote myself.

A good candidate to be evaluated for -

Sadistic personality disorder is:

A] A pervasive pattern of cruel, demeaning, and aggressive behavior, beginning by early adulthood, as indicated by the repeated occurrence of at least four of the following:

1. has used physical cruelty or violence for the purpose of establishing dominance in a relationship (not merely to achieve some non-interpersonal goal, such as striking someone in order to rob him/her).

2. humiliates or demeans people in the presence of others.

3. has treated or disciplined someone under his/her control unusually harshly.

4. is amused by, or takes pleasure in, the psychological or physical suffering of others (including animals).

5. has lied for the purpose of harming or inflicting pain on others (not merely to achieve some other goal).

6. gets other people to do what he/she wants by frightening them (through intimidation or even terror).

7. restricts the autonomy of people with whom he or she has a close relationship, e.g., will not let spouse leave the house unaccompanied or permit teenage daughter to attend social functions.

8. is fascinated by violence, weapons, injury, or torture.

B] The behavior in A has not been directed toward only one person (e.g., spouse, one child) and has not been solely for the purpose of sexual arousal (as in sexual sadism).

would that include "Hang them high" posters. and various other comments like these that poke fun on foreigners in Thai jail?

specially if i look at point 4 or 8.

[Hakuchi]

This teacher needs to be caned, publicly.

I support this. What is good for the goose...

Always nice to see the libertarian approach on these issues.

[Hakuchi]

What a stupid thing to say. How can you compare disciplining a child with paedophilia?

Don't you understand that most Thai parents condone teachers hitting their kids, because they are too dam_n lazy to do it themselves.

I used to teach 3 teenage Thai boys. They told me that their parents never hit them, but their school teachers do.

Coward.

Youre as bad as a paedophile if you think hitting kids in this way is acceptable.

THey are both forms of child abuse.stemming from adults' inadequacies.there is an alarming amount in common

I agree, and even tend to think that violence inflicted upon children is worse than non-violent paedophilic child abuse.

e.g., which is worse:

1. Pulling down the underwear of a child (just to look);

2. Pulling down the underwear of a child and caning his or her buttocks enough to make him or her cry in pain and leave painful marks that last for weeks like those shown in the photos in this thread?

The 'obsession' with these photos and how they got repeated posted in this thread (just to look) worries me also a bit when it come to the P- issue.

[Deeral]

so....like it or not,

it is Child abuse,

it damages rather than "improves" children,

Those who practice it either have behavioural problems of their own, or are perverts or of one kind or another

Furthermore consider this - if they deal in such a physical manner with a child who has annoyed them what happens at the other end of the scale when they want to show a child affection?????????

.....and those who "think' it "did them no harm" - think again - there have been people on this thread airing some dangerously unbalanced and deeply disturbing views on life experience and child care, not to mention practices on children that are ILLEGAL....both nationally and internationally.

Actually it is you who appears to have the behavioral problem. Your beliefs are predicated on the outright denial that humans are by their very nature violent. This violence gets stamped out by society in most people, but it is there in all of us. It simmers under the surface of political correctness - contained, constrained, repressed, ignored, rejected. It rebels at the strictures of modern society. It is pathological to deny these basic facts.

Kids understand violence as do adults. All humans do, along with the animals. Pain equals bad. Pain equals don't repeat the behavior that brought it about. You claim to know all the answers. You vilify those who do not believe as you do. And yet your answers are only found in the modern psychology and education theory unleashed on the world in the last several decades. The world isn't much better now than it was in the past, only people today deny their natural instincts to an extent unimaginable even to our most recent ancestors.

These theories are also highly self-serving in that they only apply when the overall goal is socialization and forcing people to ignore, deny, and repress their violent nature. So yes, if the goal is to produce an unnatural child in an unnatural environment (which in the end we all must do) then the conclusions of modern psychology are relevant.

No matter what society and psychology tells us, people are still humans. We harbor violent tendencies. We respond to violence and learn from it as well. This is not about a behavioral disorder in any way. It is the natural way that humans have lived for tens of thousands of years, if not hundreds of thousands.

Please understand, I am not in any way condoning the teacher's actions. Those actions are illegal. Laws are a forced agreement imposed upon all members of any society. Laws exist to protect us from the natural inclinations of other people and from our own natural inclinations. For a smooth functioning society laws are necessary. This teacher knew the societal rules and, arguably, violated them. There are consequences for such violations. But this does not mean that the teacher was in any way sick or deranged. He simply utilized the behavior modification methods he learned as a child. He is also quite likely to have witnessed the caning of students by many of his peers, due to the prevalence of corporal punishment in schools here. He probably believed he was doing the right thing.

"Your beliefs are predicated on the outright denial that humans are by their very nature violent."

Well well - what a telling piece of soul-baring!

i'm afraid you might want to brush up on your theories of human nature though.

[Deeral]

bottm line as I said earlier.

Teachers at the school I teach at were lining up kids to have there heads shorn today. There were the usual teachers waving their canes about at assembly. And this is in the same town as the school in question.

I heard from a fellow teacher that the principle gave each of the 40 students 20,000bht for their trouble. The school is no longer being pursued in this matter But the police have been approached by concerned parents to take the matter further.

If its not clear, I DO NOT condone caning, I think its awful. I do however know that I chose to live in Thailand and work in Thai schools. So I accept that it is part and parcel of "Thai Culture" and who among us would have the timerity to attack such a venerable institution as that?

" So I accept that it is part and parcel of "Thai Culture" "

WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU DO THAT?? -

Edited September 1, 2010 by Deeral

[Loz]

err... cos all the evidence says it is.

[Deeral]

err... cos all the evidence says it is.

essentially you are saying that if you interpret the "evidence" as suggesting something is "thai culture" you have no right to change it?

[Thules]

way2muchcoffee, Your response was excellent and well presented. And yet I must respectfully, disagree with you.... Not, with what you directly said which, from an historical and even present day perspective, cannot be denied.

But, in respect of violence against kids, what matters is how we go from here. it's about building the future. Do we really want to continue to be as the savages of past, and inflict violence against others just accepting our instinctual urges ? We cannot deny having violent urges, but we sure as can, as a society, and as individuals seek to find more constructive ways to resolve our differences without violence, whether in the classroom or beyond.

I hope attitudes towards the acceptance of using violence against each other do change for the better, at the very least on an inter-personal level. Idealistic ? Quite possibly, but it's got to start somewhere. Please consider how, as modern societies, our attitudes have changed for the positive against slavery, apartheid, gay bashing to name just a few. We can collectively change our views about what's acceptable in our societies. When it comes to physical child abuse, irrespective of our primal instincts, I already say NO !

I agree with everything you've written. I am a teacher with 12 years of classroom experience. I have never hit a child and I never will. Also my wife and I became guardians for my wife's 3 1/2 year old niece. This girl will never be hit again, at least not by us.

I guess I just find it offensive when people are labeled as 'sick' or 'deranged' when they are acting in ways that are perfectly natural, even when those actions are no longer considered 'normal' or acceptable.

Its just a shame there is no school you can go to, where they teach you how to point society's moral compass.

Kindly permit me to take us back to Loz's last statement .

Here is a well respected contributor to TV, and yet he is saying that "Its a shame there is no school you can go to, where they teach you how to point how to point society's moral compass". Now as a lurker here for years, we all know that Loz's not exactly a wall flower. But what a sad admission he made from such a fellow. If as a teacher, he recognises that he, for whatever reason, can't be guiding the moral compass of his students, what hope is there for his students and the unfortunate adults of tomorrow ?

I feel for your pain Loz, and the daily frustration you must face. Praise the teachers here, who we all too frequently admonish,

[milkycheese]

Used the leather strap in my school. Still it is frightening that kids were laughing at the time as well, as if normal practice to administer violence.

Edited September 1, 2010 by milkycheese

[Loz]

way2muchcoffee, Your response was excellent and well presented. And yet I must respectfully, disagree with you.... Not, with what you directly said which, from an historical and even present day perspective, cannot be denied.

But, in respect of violence against kids, what matters is how we go from here. it's about building the future. Do we really want to continue to be as the savages of past, and inflict violence against others just accepting our instinctual urges ? We cannot deny having violent urges, but we sure as can, as a society, and as individuals seek to find more constructive ways to resolve our differences without violence, whether in the classroom or beyond.

I hope attitudes towards the acceptance of using violence against each other do change for the better, at the very least on an inter-personal level. Idealistic ? Quite possibly, but it's got to start somewhere. Please consider how, as modern societies, our attitudes have changed for the positive against slavery, apartheid, gay bashing to name just a few. We can collectively change our views about what's acceptable in our societies. When it comes to physical child abuse, irrespective of our primal instincts, I already say NO !

I agree with everything you've written. I am a teacher with 12 years of classroom experience. I have never hit a child and I never will. Also my wife and I became guardians for my wife's 3 1/2 year old niece. This girl will never be hit again, at least not by us.

I guess I just find it offensive when people are labeled as 'sick' or 'deranged' when they are acting in ways that are perfectly natural, even when those actions are no longer considered 'normal' or acceptable.

Its just a shame there is no school you can go to, where they teach you how to point society's moral compass.

Kindly permit me to take us back to Loz's last statement .

Here is a well respected contributor to TV, and yet he is saying that "Its a shame there is no school you can go to, where they teach you how to point how to point society's moral compass". Now as a lurker here for years, we all know that Loz's not exactly a wall flower. But what a sad admission he made from such a fellow. If as a teacher, he recognises that he, for whatever reason, can't be guiding the moral compass of his students, what hope is there for his students and the unfortunate adults of tomorrow ?

I feel for your pain Loz, and the daily frustration you must face. Praise the teachers here, who we all too frequently admonish,

I thank my learned member for his sympathy. I must clarify however. I DO see my role as to provide a good example for my STUDENTS. But what I accept I CAN NOT DO is tell the teachers here not to hit the kids.

That is the sentiment I meant to express. Profound apoligies if it was not clear.

It is none the less a sad state of affairs.

[MikeyIdea]

so....like it or not,

it is Child abuse,

it damages rather than "improves" children,

Those who practice it either have behavioural problems of their own, or are perverts or of one kind or another

Furthermore consider this - if they deal in such a physical manner with a child who has annoyed them what happens at the other end of the scale when they want to show a child affection?????????

.....and those who "think' it "did them no harm" - think again - there have been people on this thread airing some dangerously unbalanced and deeply disturbing views on life experience and child care, not to mention practices on children that are ILLEGAL....both nationally and internationally.

Actually it is you who appears to have the behavioral problem. Your beliefs are predicated on the outright denial that humans are by their very nature violent. This violence gets stamped out by society in most people, but it is there in all of us. It simmers under the surface of political correctness - contained, constrained, repressed, ignored, rejected. It rebels at the strictures of modern society. It is pathological to deny these basic facts.

Kids understand violence as do adults. All humans do, along with the animals. Pain equals bad. Pain equals don't repeat the behavior that brought it about. You claim to know all the answers. You vilify those who do not believe as you do. And yet your answers are only found in the modern psychology and education theory unleashed on the world in the last several decades. The world isn't much better now than it was in the past, only people today deny their natural instincts to an extent unimaginable even to our most recent ancestors.

These theories are also highly self-serving in that they only apply when the overall goal is socialization and forcing people to ignore, deny, and repress their violent nature. So yes, if the goal is to produce an unnatural child in an unnatural environment (which in the end we all must do) then the conclusions of modern psychology are relevant.

No matter what society and psychology tells us, people are still humans. We harbor violent tendencies. We respond to violence and learn from it as well. This is not about a behavioral disorder in any way. It is the natural way that humans have lived for tens of thousands of years, if not hundreds of thousands.

Please understand, I am not in any way condoning the teacher's actions. Those actions are illegal. Laws are a forced agreement imposed upon all members of any society. Laws exist to protect us from the natural inclinations of other people and from our own natural inclinations. For a smooth functioning society laws are necessary. This teacher knew the societal rules and, arguably, violated them. There are consequences for such violations. But this does not mean that the teacher was in any way sick or deranged. He simply utilized the behavior modification methods he learned as a child. He is also quite likely to have witnessed the caning of students by many of his peers, due to the prevalence of corporal punishment in schools here. He probably believed he was doing the right thing.

Funny post waytoomuchcoffee - You claim that another TV poster who has a different opinion of yours is the one having a behaviour problem, yet he has shown no more than you and many others have, only difference of opinion

A few comments to your thinking;

Humans are animals and they are therefore, more or less and don't forget more or less, prone to violence, correct. Killer bees are very aggressive by nature, Labradors are not. No one would deny that an abused Labrador could become violent, if it does, then it can hardly be considered its nature. Or can it? Is that releasing its true nature?

You write from your own perspective and you don't understand that the important question is not if kids understand that violence is bad or not or that pain is bad. What is important for the kid is that the kid is taught what is right, not taught to get used to what is bad = getting bad if you do bad, which double the amount of bad. In short, it is good to bad ratio that is important when shaping children. Child psychatrists have been talking about the need for explaining the correct path, not enforcing the violent and wrong path for many decades now, lost to some it seems. Deliberately lost to a few perhaps. Unprovoced violence is up thousands of % only the last 40 years, why is that? Compared to medieval times, violence is down but please explain if you think that is because of people changing or society changing and enforcing rules. The good to bad ratio that should be used to foster children is an open discussion with only the extremes in both directions being wrong, this discussion is not about that. It should be noted that child psychatrists consider the event of kids watching Ben Ten to foster violence, as does corporal punishment

I find your belief, that modern child psychiatry which is based on the knowledge that kids in fact are formed by their environment, would foster unnatural children appalling and bizarre. No one is questioning that there is violence in everybody, only the correctness of your logical thinking when you seem to believe that intruducing and enforcing it with more violence is not creating a more violent nature, it is instead somehow creating - how did you express it? - unnatural children when you depress it. Laughable

I do understand that you think the teachers actions were (way) out of line. I don't agree with reasoning for why he did it, his perspective is totally irrelevant, only the childs perspective matters, that is his job, if he doesn't like it, change profession

[MikeyIdea]

so....like it or not,

it is Child abuse,

it damages rather than "improves" children,

Those who practice it either have behavioural problems of their own, or are perverts or of one kind or another

Furthermore consider this - if they deal in such a physical manner with a child who has annoyed them what happens at the other end of the scale when they want to show a child affection?????????

.....and those who "think' it "did them no harm" - think again - there have been people on this thread airing some dangerously unbalanced and deeply disturbing views on life experience and child care, not to mention practices on children that are ILLEGAL....both nationally and internationally.

Actually it is you who appears to have the behavioral problem. Your beliefs are predicated on the outright denial that humans are by their very nature violent. This violence gets stamped out by society in most people, but it is there in all of us. It simmers under the surface of political correctness - contained, constrained, repressed, ignored, rejected. It rebels at the strictures of modern society. It is pathological to deny these basic facts.

Kids understand violence as do adults. All humans do, along with the animals. Pain equals bad. Pain equals don't repeat the behavior that brought it about. You claim to know all the answers. You vilify those who do not believe as you do. And yet your answers are only found in the modern psychology and education theory unleashed on the world in the last several decades. The world isn't much better now than it was in the past, only people today deny their natural instincts to an extent unimaginable even to our most recent ancestors.

These theories are also highly self-serving in that they only apply when the overall goal is socialization and forcing people to ignore, deny, and repress their violent nature. So yes, if the goal is to produce an unnatural child in an unnatural environment (which in the end we all must do) then the conclusions of modern psychology are relevant.

No matter what society and psychology tells us, people are still humans. We harbor violent tendencies. We respond to violence and learn from it as well. This is not about a behavioral disorder in any way. It is the natural way that humans have lived for tens of thousands of years, if not hundreds of thousands.

Please understand, I am not in any way condoning the teacher's actions. Those actions are illegal. Laws are a forced agreement imposed upon all members of any society. Laws exist to protect us from the natural inclinations of other people and from our own natural inclinations. For a smooth functioning society laws are necessary. This teacher knew the societal rules and, arguably, violated them. There are consequences for such violations. But this does not mean that the teacher was in any way sick or deranged. He simply utilized the behavior modification methods he learned as a child. He is also quite likely to have witnessed the caning of students by many of his peers, due to the prevalence of corporal punishment in schools here. He probably believed he was doing the right thing.

Funny post waytoomuchcoffee - You claim that another TV poster who has a different opinion of yours is the one having a behaviour problem, yet he has shown no more than you and many others have, only difference of opinion

A few comments to your thinking;

Humans are animals and they are therefore, more or less and don't forget more or less, prone to violence, correct. Killer bees are very aggressive by nature, Labradors are not. No one would deny that an abused Labrador could become violent, if it does, then it can hardly be considered its nature. Or can it? Is that releasing its true nature?

You write from your own perspective and you don't understand that the important question is not if kids understand that violence is bad or not or that pain is bad. What is important for the kid is that the kid is taught what is right, not taught to get used to what is bad = getting bad if you do bad, which double the amount of bad. In short, it is good to bad ratio that is important when shaping children. Child psychatrists have been talking about the need for explaining the correct path, not enforcing the violent and wrong path for many decades now, lost to some it seems. Deliberately lost to a few perhaps. Unprovoced violence is up thousands of % only the last 40 years, why is that? Compared to medieval times, violence is down but please explain if you think that is because of people changing or society changing and enforcing rules. The good to bad ratio that should be used to foster children is an open discussion with only the extremes in both directions being wrong, this discussion is not about that. It should be noted that child psychatrists consider the event of kids watching Ben Ten to foster violence, as does corporal punishment

I find your belief, that modern child psychiatry which is based on the knowledge that kids in fact are formed by their environment, would foster unnatural children appalling and bizarre. No one is questioning that there is violence in everybody, only the correctness of your logical thinking when you seem to believe that intruducing and enforcing it with more violence is not creating a more violent nature, it is instead somehow creating - how did you express it? - unnatural children when you depress it. Laughable

I do understand that you think the teachers actions were (way) out of line. I don't agree with reasoning for why he did it, his perspective is totally irrelevant, only the childs perspective matters, that is his job, if he doesn't like it, change profession

One correction;

I find your belief, that modern child psychiatry which is based on the knowledge that kids in fact are formed by their environment, would foster unnatural children appalling and bizarre. No one is questioning that there is violence in everybody, only the correctness of your logical thinking when you seem to believe that intruducing and enforcing it with more violence is not creating a more violent nature, it is instead somehow creating - how did you express it? - unnatural children when you depress it. Laughable

...it is instead somehow creating - how did you express it? - unnatural children when you depress it.

What I meant is of course, ...not doing it is instead creating - how did you express it? - unnatural children when you depress it.

Apologies all

[Buchholz]

Thailand shocked at corporal punishment case

To Thailand, where local television this week aired secretly-recorded mobile phone footage showed a teacher at a Catholic boarding school hitting dozens of students on the buttocks with a cane wrapped with electrical wire.

The students were punished for failing to clean their living quarters. Corporal punishment of school students is illegal in Thailand. St. Mary's School in the northeastern province of Nakhon Ratchasima says the teacher's been sacked and police will be allowed to handle the matter.

Radio Australia - September 2, 2010

Audio News link (requires Windows Media Player to listen)

http://www.abc.net.au/ra/connectasia/stories/m1915752.asx

Presenter: Christine Webster

Speakers: Amalee McCoy, Child Protection Specialist for the United Nations Childrens Fund, UNICEF based in Bangkok

Thongbai Thongpao, Thai lawyer and Human Rights Activitist

[carvets]

I remember having a teacher so excitable that for the really bad kids he would stand on a chair to give himself greater elevation and would then jump off cane in hand with the downstroke. I have a girl friend who has just become a teacher and some of her high school classes she has no control over. They run rampant and it nearly brings her to tears . She feels helpless. Recently there was a video clip of a teenage girl going apeshot on a male teacher in class , screaming and hitting him. All he could do was beg the other students in the room to get help. He knew he could not defend himself. The situation is a joke. I was subject to canings in school and and it did me no harm. It taught me a little about the consequences of bad behaviour.

Edited September 2, 2010 by carvets

[Deeral]

I remember having a teacher so excitable that for the really bad kids he would stand on a chair to give himself greater elevation and would then jump off cane in hand with the downstroke. I have a girl friend who has just become a teacher and some of her high school classes she has no control over. They run rampant and it nearly brings her to tears . She feels helpless. Recently there was a video clip of a teenage girl going apeshot on a male teacher in class , screaming and hitting him. All he could do was beg the other students in the room to get help. He knew he could not defend himself. The situation is a joke. I was subject to canings in school and and it did me no harm. It taught me a little about the consequences of bad behaviour.

" I was subject to canings in school and and it did me no harm."

not on the evidence of your post which would indicate that you are not really able to understand how to come to a logical conclusion.

just as an afterthought - has it occured to you why we don't have videos of children going "apeshit" from 40 years ago?

Edited September 2, 2010 by Deeral

[carvets]

I remember having a teacher so excitable that for the really bad kids he would stand on a chair to give himself greater elevation and would then jump off cane in hand with the downstroke. I have a girl friend who has just become a teacher and some of her high school classes she has no control over. They run rampant and it nearly brings her to tears . She feels helpless. Recently there was a video clip of a teenage girl going apeshot on a male teacher in class , screaming and hitting him. All he could do was beg the other students in the room to get help. He knew he could not defend himself. The situation is a joke. I was subject to canings in school and and it did me no harm. It taught me a little about the consequences of bad behaviour.

" I was subject to canings in school and and it did me no harm."

not on the evidence of your post which would indicate that you are not really able to understand how to come to a logical conclusion.

just as an afterthought - has it occured to you why we don't have videos of children going "apeshit" from 40 years ago?

something to do with the fact that the mobile phone didn.t exist

[Deeral]

through the mists.....

You imply that classroom discipline is worse than it used to be - as the criteria for this and the methods of reporting and evaluating have changed dramatically over the years comparisons are virtually worthless.

There are literally BILLIONS of students in the world so taking one or two personal incidents or in your case badly reported incidents is hardly the basis for a conclusion.

As for your assertion that "it did me no harm" - how do we validate that....the only evidence we have is that you can't or don't know how to formulate an argument and harbor views that are baseless and totally out of step with modern teaching and psychological theorem.

Edited September 2, 2010 by Deeral

[carvets]

I think its also very sad and ironic that while people want to protect these " children ", some of these " children " are running around shooting and killing each other.

[carvets]

through the mists.....

You imply that classroom discipline is worse than it used to be - as the criteria for this and the methods of reporting and evaluating have changed dramatically over the years comparisons are virtually worthless.

There are literally BILLIONS of students in the world so taking one or two personal incidents or in your case badly reported incidents is hardly the basis for a conclusion.

As for your assertion that "it did me no harm" - how do we validate that....the only evidence we have is that you can't or don't know how to formulate an argument and harbor views that are baseless and totally out of step with modern teaching and psychological theorem.

thats funny. im typing using the onscreen keyboard . its too hard to type arguments . just posted some history,albeit mine. get it ! mine ....the judgement on any implications is yours......

Edited September 2, 2010 by carvets

[MikeyIdea]

I think its also very sad and ironic that while people want to protect these " children ", some of these " children " are running around shooting and killing each other.

Interesting thought carvets - Do you suggest that we should enforce the violence in those children by imposing more violence on them?

What's your thought on that matter? Do we enforce or fight the violence in those children by imposing more violence on them?

Edited September 2, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[AleG]

I think its also very sad and ironic that while people want to protect these " children ", some of these " children " are running around shooting and killing each other.

Yes the good old "the beatings will continue until morale improves".

[carvets]

I think its also very sad and ironic that while people want to protect these " children ", some of these " children " are running around shooting and killing each other.

Yes the good old "the beatings will continue until morale improves".

not at all . there was no suggestions or implications of action, just an observation based on this and the other thread

[paulrobertlane]

bottm line as I said earlier.

Teachers at the school I teach at were lining up kids to have there heads shorn today. There were the usual teachers waving their canes about at assembly. And this is in the same town as the school in question.

I heard from a fellow teacher that the principle gave each of the 40 students 20,000bht for their trouble. The school is no longer being pursued in this matter But the police have been approached by concerned parents to take the matter further.

If its not clear, I DO NOT condone caning, I think its awful. I do however know that I chose to live in Thailand and work in Thai schools. So I accept that it is part and parcel of "Thai Culture" and who among us would have the timerity to attack such a venerable institution as that?

Hi Loz

Firstly can i say that unlike some I DO have respect for you as a teacher, I have been doing it myself now for 14 years here in various schools and colleges. I would like to pick up a few of the points you make but wish to STRESS this no critique of you whatsoever.

1. Your comment about the teachers waving their canes around at assembly. Pre 2005 when it was legal I saw this a lot too. However since 2005 I can honestly say i have never seen this. Yes it still goes on but usually just rulers, not canes, to the hand etc (still illegal mind you). I have to say that if teachers are so blatant it refelcts badly on the intelligence level of teachers in your school if they have so little regard for their own job security as it would be easy for a student to take a clip in assembly even if not in a classroom. It also doesnt say much for the quality of the administrators that they allow the risk they could easily be caught. I do NOT doubt you, but since 2005 I have never seen anything this blatant. That said "carrying" a cane isn't illegal, only if they "use" it.

2. Your comment that its a "bottom line". I may have misinterpreted this but you seem to suggest this behavior is the "norm" - it's NOT. Most schools and teachers respect the law. I know it happens, but to (maybe) insinuate it is all schools and all teachers is simply not correct.

3. I appreciate what you say that you cannot tell Thai teachers what to do as i have learned that the hard way. However there are many things you CAN do. I am not suggesting you DO them just pointing out that you could if you wanted to. For example

You could make kids aware of the law. I realsie this carries risk of admonishment from Thai teachers.

You could show kids the MoE website where they encourage students to report teachers who do this.

Make kids aware their parents can claim financial compensation from the school if their kid is hit. This often works wonders and schools soon stop it when they are faced with high numbers of claims.

You could send details of the school (name and location etc) to www.thai.corporalpunishmentthailand.com (there is an English translation). They guarantee anonymity and the site is run by the Womens and Child Protection Unit who WILL take action or at least will warn the school they are aware. This also may "shame" the school into some degree of action. There is nothing like bad publicity or the smell of baht to suddenly make complacent Thai parents become anti cp. If a teacher hits a kid the school will have to pay if someone complains. You could even augment your salary by sending them a video clip LOL.

[way2muchcoffee]

Interesting thought carvets - Do you suggest that we should enforce the violence in those children by imposing more violence on them?

What's your thought on that matter? Do we enforce or fight the violence in those children by imposing more violence on them?

Interesting point. Isn't that what we do with adults? Incarcerating someone is violent. Prisons are violent places. Perhaps we should just talk kindly to the and hope they will change.

Edited September 2, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[MikeyIdea]

I think its also very sad and ironic that while people want to protect these " children ", some of these " children " are running around shooting and killing each other.

Interesting thought carvets - Do you suggest that we should enforce the violence in those children by imposing more violence on them?

What's your thought on that matter? Do we enforce or fight the violence in those children by imposing more violence on them?

Interesting point. Isn't that what we do with adults? Incarcerating someone is violent. Prisons are violent places. Perhaps we should just talk kindly to them and hope they will change.

Well, what's your thought on that matter? Do we enforce or fight the violence in those children by imposing more violence on them?

[TAWP]

This teacher needs to be caned, publicly.

I support this. What is good for the goose...

Always nice to see the libertarian approach on these issues.

What on earth are you getting at? Are you under some misconception that Libertarians are against penalties for crimes?

[way2muchcoffee]

Well, what's your thought on that matter? Do we enforce or fight the violence in those children by imposing more violence on them?

Difficult question. I haven't decided on a final position in this matter. Personally, I won't use any form of corporal punishment on a child ever, so my sympathies lean heavily toward this position. But at the same time I am not convinced that banning corporal punishment is the only correct position to hold.

Edited September 2, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[carvets]

Well, what's your thought on that matter? Do we enforce or fight the violence in those children by imposing more violence on them?

Difficult question. I haven't decided on a final position in this matter. Personally, I won't use any form of corporal punishment on a child ever, so my sympathies lean heavily toward this position. But at the same time I am not convinced that banning corporal punishment is the only correct position to hold.

I concur. Also as a high school student in Australia i was more a young man and less a child so the use of the term " children " may be a little overused and misplaced..

[paulrobertlane]

Well, what's your thought on that matter? Do we enforce or fight the violence in those children by imposing more violence on them?

Difficult question. I haven't decided on a final position in this matter. Personally, I won't use any form of corporal punishment on a child ever, so my sympathies lean heavily toward this position. But at the same time I am not convinced that banning corporal punishment is the only correct position to hold.

The point surely is that its ALREADY banned.

The arguments re "right or wrong" will go on forever.................... probably.

For me the issue is a simple one..

If a teacher hits a kid in Thailand they are breaking the law. If someone breaks the law they are committing a crime. If you commit a crime you are a criminal (technically).

I am against CP and in 14 years here have never hit a kid. However I do see some of the stress that teachers work under and can sometimes see the other side of the argument. However for me that is all besides the point, which is that schools should not be employing criminals regardless of what they actually think about the issue.

I am 100% convinced that students will not respect the law if they see teachers breaking it every day!! If it was legal, my personal feelings would be the same but my argument would be a different one.

[MikeyIdea]

Well, what's your thought on that matter? Do we enforce or fight the violence in those children by imposing more violence on them?

Difficult question. I haven't decided on a final position in this matter. Personally, I won't use any form of corporal punishment on a child ever, so my sympathies lean heavily toward this position. But at the same time I am not convinced that banning corporal punishment is the only correct position to hold.

OK, I respect that position, thank you

I spent a lot of time thinking about positive and negative aspects of different upbringing techniques and I have read a lot about child psychiatry and and my personal opinion is that there are way too many negative aspects - and long term negative consequences - with corporal punishment for me to ever accept it. There is no doubt that if we disregard the negative consequenses, corporal punishment is the fastest working form of shaping people, that is why torture is the fastest way to get information out of people.

In short, good parenting and good teaching require patience and time and nothing can replace that. Our society changing did unfortunately not make patience and time spent parenting and teching less valuable. IMO, it never will and one of the reasons we see an increase in problems with discipline in some areas is that parents and teachers have less time nowadays, or put another way, are supposed to perform / produce more in the same time