Watch Out For Greedy Brits!

[Adiccavamso]

The Bangkok Post has recently published correspondence about the cost of acquiring or renewing a British passport. In this forum I recently asked if anyone knew how to find a notary/commissioner of oaths to witness a signature on a court document, but no-one responded - but I can now answer my own question.

The British consulate will do so, for a fee. Of course it goes without saying that the staff at the UK consulate are efficient, courteous and charming and it's not their fault that to witness my signature, add their own and stamp the document, they will charge 2,834 baht. If the document comprises several loose leaf pages, they will charge an additional 1,123 baht to bind them (using a staple?). That's a total of er, 3,957 baht.

Does this seem excessive to you? It does to me.

Because my affidavit is destined for the South African High Court, I tried the SA consulate just around the corner in the Chidlom Central Tower.

They did it all in under three minutes. And the charge? Absolutely nothing. Instead I got a nice smile from the Thai lady behind the counter in return for my wai, and it was done.

I think one of the many reasons so many Brits are in Thailand is because UK Inc, at least the government and bureaucracy, have learned how to rip off their own citizens at every opportunity. No longer do people pay for 'services' - they pay for products at the highest possible cost the market can bear. Thank you, Mrs T. and her legacy, Blair's New Labour.

[PattayaParent]

They've got to charge high fees so they can get the money to pay for their 150,000 Baht a month condos on Sukhumvit.

[ExpatJ]

I called their new passport help line- which they have privatized now- before they ask questions you literally have to give them your credit card details, they charge by the minute. Unbelievable . I am glad i'm no longer a UK resident and no longer pay taxes there.

[Tonto21]

So! Obviously nobody got the memo! You all lived some of your adult life in the UK, and yet some still sound surprised at the actions of the Briton Inc. I too held the opinion (wrongly) for a long time that our Embassies and consulates were there to look after British interests and to help British national in genuine need of help. IMHO they see us, the expat and tourist as a pain in the ass, you’re getting in the way of their main business, if you want help….it’s going cost you.

So what’s there main business? Selling everything and anything they can, mainly Arms and Pharmaceuticals! Seriously, the good old UK is up there with the best in the sale of drugs and “defense equipment” If you’re ever unlucky enough to end up in a prison that uses ankle cuffs, I’ll put money on it they will have “Made in the UK” stamped on them……The UK are Market leaders in this piece of kit. Where do you think the sale inquires often start? The British Embassies and consulates are akin to nothing short of “Trotter Independent Trading Co” British Embassies and consulates……………..Nothing but the UK’s governments bitchs!

[Soutpeel]

They've got to charge high fees so they can get the money to pay for their 150,000 Baht a month condos on Sukhumvit.

you forgot the Champagne, Caviar and cucumber sandwiches...

[smokie36]

They've got to charge high fees so they can get the money to pay for their 150,000 Baht a month condos on Sukhumvit.

you forgot the Champagne, Caviar and cucumber sandwiches...

Where does one apply?......If ya can't beat 'em etc....

[mahtin]

They've got to charge high fees so they can get the money to pay for their 150,000 Baht a month condos on Sukhumvit.

you forgot the Champagne, Caviar and cucumber sandwiches...

...and qurious Quentin's qummerbund.

[barsie]

It does amaze how bad rip off Briton is now.

[geriatrickid]

The fees charged at British consulates and embassies contribute to the costs incurred by having representative offices. The British government operates in an open labour market which means that it has to pay salaries that will attract qualified employees. Do you work for free? Do you think someone with a university diploma and that has efficient work skills is going to stay in the foreign service long if he or she can obtain work elsewhere at better terms and conditions? If the UK government charges a fee it is because this is what the UK taxpayers want. In case you didn't realize, the UK provides generous social benefits to its citizens. Someone has to pay for those benefits. Are you paying taxes to the UK government and do those taxes cover even a portion of your access to and use of all the services provided? Considering the fact that UK citizens can access an NHS, social services, public transit, water etc., I don't know what you are griping about. It is unfair to call the people providing the services "greedy". The fees collected by the UK and other governments are not not that lucrative. If you want a free ride or a subsidy to support your lifestyle, just say so.

[GuestHouse]

I recently had some documents notarized in the UK the price was £45 - on that basis the charge at the British Embassy seems about right to me.

[GuestHouse]

The fees charged at British consulates and embassies contribute to the costs incurred by having representative offices. The British government operates in an open labour market which means that it has to pay salaries that will attract qualified employees. Do you work for free? Do you think someone with a university diploma and that has efficient work skills is going to stay in the foreign service long if he or she can obtain work elsewhere at better terms and conditions? If the UK government charges a fee it is because this is what the UK taxpayers want. In case you didn't realize, the UK provides generous social benefits to its citizens. Someone has to pay for those benefits. Are you paying taxes to the UK government and do those taxes cover even a portion of your access to and use of all the services provided? Considering the fact that UK citizens can access an NHS, social services, public transit, water etc., I don't know what you are griping about. It is unfair to call the people providing the services "greedy". The fees collected by the UK and other governments are not not that lucrative. If you want a free ride or a subsidy to support your lifestyle, just say so.

Very well said sir!

[basjke]

The fees charged at British consulates and embassies contribute to the costs incurred by having representative offices. The British government operates in an open labour market which means that it has to pay salaries that will attract qualified employees. Do you work for free? Do you think someone with a university diploma and that has efficient work skills is going to stay in the foreign service long if he or she can obtain work elsewhere at better terms and conditions? If the UK government charges a fee it is because this is what the UK taxpayers want. In case you didn't realize, the UK provides generous social benefits to its citizens. Someone has to pay for those benefits. Are you paying taxes to the UK government and do those taxes cover even a portion of your access to and use of all the services provided? Considering the fact that UK citizens can access an NHS, social services, public transit, water etc., I don't know what you are griping about. It is unfair to call the people providing the services "greedy". The fees collected by the UK and other governments are not not that lucrative. If you want a free ride or a subsidy to support your lifestyle, just say so.

At last it is discovered where you work.Say hello to the ambassador for me will you

[sillyman99]

If you want a free ride or a subsidy to support your lifestyle, just say so.

OK, can you help ?

[Soutpeel]

The fees charged at British consulates and embassies contribute to the costs incurred by having representative offices. The British government operates in an open labour market which means that it has to pay salaries that will attract qualified employees. Do you work for free? Do you think someone with a university diploma and that has efficient work skills is going to stay in the foreign service long if he or she can obtain work elsewhere at better terms and conditions? If the UK government charges a fee it is because this is what the UK taxpayers want. In case you didn't realize, the UK provides generous social benefits to its citizens. Someone has to pay for those benefits. Are you paying taxes to the UK government and do those taxes cover even a portion of your access to and use of all the services provided? Considering the fact that UK citizens can access an NHS, social services, public transit, water etc., I don't know what you are griping about. It is unfair to call the people providing the services "greedy". The fees collected by the UK and other governments are not not that lucrative. If you want a free ride or a subsidy to support your lifestyle, just say so.

Ex-civil Servant are we ?....

Lest we forget the political pigs round the trough fiasco last year ?

[mahtin]

If you want a free ride or a subsidy to support your lifestyle, just say so.

OK, can you help ?

I would like an unfrozen pension.

[sillyman99]

If you want a free ride or a subsidy to support your lifestyle, just say so.

OK, can you help ?

I would like an unfrozen pension.

Plus a free ride and subsidy to support your lifestyle ?

Edited August 31, 2010 by sillyman99

[eefoo]

If the UK government charges a fee it is because this is what the UK taxpayers want.

Since when did the UK government, of any flavour, do what the UK taxpayer wants?

[MAJIC]

Out of every Benefit comes the checkbill.

i.e. My wifes UK Visa = £870.

Benefit to her = Free NHS care.

More than a fair deal to my way of thinking and nothing to do with "Greedy Brits" as the Stupid Topic Title suggests! where does the OP think the money comes from? for her health care, Thailand?

[MAJIC]

If the UK government charges a fee it is because this is what the UK taxpayers want.

Since when did the UK government, of any flavour, do what the UK taxpayer wants?

Dont know of any other Government in the World that does what their Taxpayers want either,do you?

[KeyserSoze01]

Anything UK related is a rip off, look at the salaries, pensions and perks civil servants get.

You forgot about all the people in the UK who are on the dole. Someone has to butter their bread.

[prakhonchai nick]

Out of every Benefit comes the checkbill.

i.e. My wifes UK Visa = £870.

Benefit to her = Free NHS care.

More than a fair deal to my way of thinking and nothing to do with "Greedy Brits" as the Stupid Topic Title suggests! where does the OP think the money comes from? for her health care, Thailand?

If you were in Britain, and had a British wife who did not work, she would get Free NHS care too. Why? BECAUSE SHE IS YOUR WIFE!. Surely, it does not matter where your wife hails from. And anyway it is not FREE! What about all the NI contributions you made over the years? The Income tax? VAT at more than double the Thai rate and about to increase again shortly.

What about all the NI contributions I made? I am in Thailand. If I return to the UK for medical treatment I have to pay! My pension is frozen! No cold weather allowance for me! No Christmas Bonus! No Child tax Credits! But they still take 20% tax off me from my private pension! Part of my contribution is helping to pay for your wife's FREE NHS treatment, and all the enormous benefits handed out to the millions of immigrants who pour into the UK.

I could go on -but I won't

[Thules]

The fees charged at British consulates and embassies contribute to the costs incurred by having representative offices. The British government operates in an open labour market which means that it has to pay salaries that will attract qualified employees. Do you work for free? Do you think someone with a university diploma and that has efficient work skills is going to stay in the foreign service long if he or she can obtain work elsewhere at better terms and conditions? If the UK government charges a fee it is because this is what the UK taxpayers want. In case you didn't realize, the UK provides generous social benefits to its citizens. Someone has to pay for those benefits. Are you paying taxes to the UK government and do those taxes cover even a portion of your access to and use of all the services provided? Considering the fact that UK citizens can access an NHS, social services, public transit, water etc., I don't know what you are griping about. It is unfair to call the people providing the services "greedy". The fees collected by the UK and other governments are not not that lucrative. If you want a free ride or a subsidy to support your lifestyle, just say so.

Very well said sir!

Yes, Seconded.

But I would like to ask GK, for clarification purposes rather than any contention..... if GK specifically knows wif...

1) Any excess fees raised in respect of maintaining consular and embassy services outside the UK are funneled back to specific UK social services coffers. I would expect not, but I really have no idea. Essentially, are consulates / embassies now run as individual profit centres or not ? Do UK consular services have expected profit margins? I've been advised, possibly wrongly, that the German Consulate here operates on a purely local profit margin with no excess profits being required to be directed back to the German government.

2) As later indicated by another poster, was this poster's spouse Consular charges of UKP xxx a charge for consular charges directly connected to the benefits she will receive when finally reaching the UK? Again, I would think not as it would amount to a deal of the Century !!

3) I would have thought that fees for consular / embassy services would not be operated as a remote profit / cost centre. In which case it begs the question, as all expats, consular officials from both the UK and SA are living in the same place, ie here in Thailand..... why is there such a disparity in charges for performing a common and routine legal task of notarizing a doccument ? Their living / operating expenses would be expected to be comparable.

[moe666]

I though we had it bad in the states (no NHI) but you guys are getting scr-wed

[prakhonchai nick]

My earlier post, like that of some other posters, was Off Topic. The original OP was about the high cost of Notarisations.

Typically, most accredited Thai Lawyers will notarise documents for 500bt/page. No extra charges for a staple.

Most Embassy day to day work is carried out by Thai staff, who command a much smaller salary than their UK counteparts. There is in my mind no justification for their excessively high charges for most services.

Why. even a replacement UK passport costs £128 + courier charges to and from Hong Kong, and a 4 week wait, whilst the same item is available in the UK for under £80!

[ExpatJ]

In defence of UK- at least the British govt doesn't tax us for income earned overseas. Unlike the US government which forces all its citizens to pay tax on income earned in other countries

[PattayaParent]

They've got to charge high fees so they can get the money to pay for their 150,000 Baht a month condos on Sukhumvit.

you forgot the Champagne, Caviar and cucumber sandwiches...

and I also forgot the yearly pension increases they'll be entitled to which retirees in Thailand are not.

[prakhonchai nick]

They've got to charge high fees so they can get the money to pay for their 150,000 Baht a month condos on Sukhumvit.

you forgot the Champagne, Caviar and cucumber sandwiches...

and I also forgot the yearly pension increases they'll be entitled to which retirees in Thailand are not.

It is only their civil service pensions that are increased annually in line with inflation. Most UK Company Pensions increase annually regardless of where the former employee lives. But State Pensions are frozen for everyone living in Thailand and certain other countries, even Civil Servants.

[PattayaParent]

If the UK government charges a fee it is because this is what the UK taxpayers want.

Since when did the UK government, of any flavour, do what the UK taxpayer wants?

Exactly, it's not the British taxpayer that sets the fees, they probably don't even know how high they are.

UK citizens living overseas CANNOT access NHS and social services and since Maggie's days there is no such thing as public transport and water, they were both privatised.

So how if the fees are' not that lucrative' do they support the UK citizens living in UK? The answer is they don't.

[geriatrickid]

There are a number of public interest groups that have declared positions. Let's take the UK taxpayers alliance for example. (I'm not picking on them, but they serve as an illustration.) The TPA wants taxes lowered and that there be no additional taxes levied. It's a great sentiment. I'm in favour of that as well. Who isn't? Governments do polls and have focus groups. They also consult with a large number of public interest groups. One given, and it's accepted by most finance ministries in the developed world, is that fees are perceived differently from taxes, since it is the user that pays and not the general population. If you don't use the service, then you don't pay. People when surveyed usually say charge fees instead of taxes. I believe that the social psychology explanation is that it is less objectionable because it's not seen as "mandatory" like a tax. (Obviously it is, since you don't get the service if you don't pay.) It really is no different than the way some airlines charge fees. People that don't check bags, don't get hit with the extra baggage charge etc. Personally, I can't stand the way all those fees are added on, but there are travelers that will say they like it. As well, collecting a fee once service at the transaction ensures compliance. It's easier to avoid paying a tax, than it is to avoid a fee payment. You can't whip up public opinion over a fee in quite the same way you can with a 1% tax increase.

Fees collected by consulates and embassies accrue to the general account. All monies flow back to HM Treasury. In some cases, the fees charged exceed the costs expended to deliver the services. I bet some of you would never expect me to write that. However, it is not UK citizens that pay those inflated fees. Rather it is foreigners. Maybe some of you already know if you have brought family to the UK and I'm surprised no one has pointed out the "double pricing".

The most recent example is the fee policy implemented in January 2010; Dependent relatives living outside the UK who make an application to settle in the UK had application fees increase from £585 to £1,680. Family members who who visit the UK and subsequently apply to settle had fees double, to £1,680. The move was in response to concerns raised by taxpayer groups and general commentators about the cost on social and health services of foreign nationals' parents and grandparents who cannot look after themselves.

In a written statement to Parliament , the Labour immigration minister at the time, Phil Woolas said revenue from fees, which are far above the cost of processing the applications, would be used to fund the immigration system. He said:"I believe that it is fair that those who benefit from using our immigration system should help fund it. The fees help fund the 25,000 staff who work in local communities, at the border and in 135 countries around the world."

look, I'm sorry some of the fees are upsetting to people. I have to pay fees as well. However, it's not the clerk at the Embassy that sets them. it's not even the Ambassador. It's the duly authorized government that makes the budget which sets the fees. MPs vote on the budget. The workers in an embassy are required to follow the rules of the budget. Take it up with your MP or the PM.

[StreetCowboy]

I recently had some documents notarized in the UK the price was £45 - on that basis the charge at the British Embassy seems about right to me.

I paid 2,000 baht to a bloke I met in the station to get my passport copy notarised.

Cheaper, longer opening hours, more convenient location, but possibly not the same credibility or global acceptability as on behalf of her britannic majesty but good enough for the purpose. He had the decency to sign it with more than just "A Bloke, Nana Station". And stuck a cracking chop on it, too.

2,000 baht for ten minutes' effort didn't seem that bad a deal in comparison to my daily rates, given his likely utilisation

SC