Thaksin Phones In During Pattaya Rally

[jayjay0]

That's a tired and discredited point that apologists for the crimes of the military often trot out.Absurdly,if taken literally, it means that the many civilians murdered by the military somehow got caught in the crossfire as snipers aimed at the militants.What laughable rubbish.

What's more laughable are your feeble attempts as a red propagandist. Any objective observer of the events during the Tai Rouge occupation of Bangkok know that that is exactly what happened.

At any rate, whether you recognise that the unarmed deaths were collateral rather than intentional, the poster has a point about the choices the UDD members made. The occupation was illegal and its leaders promoted violence daily on the stage. That is a matter of abundant public record, so you're calling that appraisal 'rubbsih' won't fly. The physical, social and economic damage the UDD caused amounts to terrorism under their cheerless leader's own definitions as approved by an elected parliament. The government showed admirable restraint in enforcing the law.

One wonders whether someone like this has any limit on the amount of bloodshed he is happy to endorse.Clearly this fellow, to the extent he expresses himself coherently, is at the reactionary end of the spectrum.Even government spokesmen pay lip service to the concept of a rigorous inquiry - not that they are really prepared to commit to one.Historically the Thai army has always covered up its crimes and avoided accountability.Actually in this case I think the army acted reasonably professionally but there's still a need for a proper inquiry

You are on and on about a rigorous inquiry. What good is that going to do we all know that the red shirts tried to burn down Bangkok they tried through violence to get the legal government to resign. They refused to negotiate. They invaded a hospital. Are you absolutely sure you want to know the whole story. Remember they started the lethal violence on April 10 the rest was just a natural result of there reactions. When the inquiry is over and the red shirts are shown for what they are will you go on a crusade to get them to pay the wages for all the people they put out of work will you try to get them to pay for the rebuilding of the damage caused by there arson. When will you red shirts learn you have rights but the right to hold a nation up for your own personnel gain is not one of them and will be stopped by all the legal means at the governments hands.

Or am I reading you wrong and what you want is a rigorous investigation of the people who financed this act of terrorism. If so my apologies but I think that is a investigation you would rather not have.

[Insight]

The army murdered over 90 of them - many millions are left and will never give up.

Another bullshitting pro-red propagandist. That 90-odd figure you are quick to throw around INCLUDES murdered army personnel.

To think I fell for your posts a while back about the reds in Ratchaprasong.

Exactly how many murdered red shirts by your estimation ???

And army casualties ??

Maybe you could sow down a bit with the abusive comments........

If you want to see army fatalities go look at the YouTube clips from 10th April (the ones the govt doctored, according to red shirt leaders).

I'll tone down the aggression when the reds stop insulting the people slain for political ends.

[Insight]

That's a tired and discredited point that apologists for the crimes of the military often trot out.Absurdly,if taken literally, it means that the many civilians murdered by the military somehow got caught in the crossfire as snipers aimed at the militants.What laughable rubbish.

It counteracts the tired and discredited points that none of the red shirts were armed.

No one is saying that NO unarmed civilians were killed. But to suggest that all of those killed were unarmed, or were not supporting and congregating with those that were armed, is the "laughable rubbish".

Notice Jayboy is also referring to "snipers" killing civilians. What chances does any inquiry have of actually revealing the identity of these snipers?

Because the reds were obviously supported by an armed force themselves means the calls for an inquiry are gaining very little attention or sympathy outside the red movement, both in Thailand and overseas.

So in your opinion an inquiry can be dispensed with.That's a fairly clear statement of your attachment to the truth.On my part I simply want a credible and transparent investigation

And what parties are going to contribute to this "credible and transparent investigation"? The one that just (knowingly) incorrectly stated 90 red shirts were "murdered" by the army?

/ edit - this "90" number also includes one pro-govt supporter who was slain on Silom. The death of which the red shirts revelled in through "singing, dancing and celebrating like demented demons".

Edited September 5, 2010 by Insight

[BlackJack]

Wonder how many were really red shirt supporters and not 'Just there for the concert' ?

What a stupid question...

Do you believe many thousands of people wearing a red shirt and going to a concert organized by redshirts and performed by redshirts are not redshirts?

The army murdered over 90 of them - many millions are left and will never give up.

Here a photo of yesterday's concert in Pattaya.

hey i know 10 millions Thais would do anything for a free t-shirt and entertainment

no one was murdered last night at the concert - what are you on about?

please reinstate the emergency rule in Pattaya asap

[craigt3365]

I agree a proper inquiry is needed. I read they are making progress on it, especially the ones killed in the wat. It will be interesting to see how that comes out.

I think all deaths need to be investigated properly, both military and civilian.

Anyway it's comforting that you "read" that "they" are making progress on it.

Glad I could provide you some comfort on such a beautiful day!

[philw]

That's a tired and discredited point that apologists for the crimes of the military often trot out.Absurdly,if taken literally, it means that the many civilians murdered by the military somehow got caught in the crossfire as snipers aimed at the militants.What laughable rubbish.

What's more laughable are your feeble attempts as a red propagandist. Any objective observer of the events during the Tai Rouge occupation of Bangkok know that that is exactly what happened.

At any rate, whether you recognise that the unarmed deaths were collateral rather than intentional, the poster has a point about the choices the UDD members made. The occupation was illegal and its leaders promoted violence daily on the stage. That is a matter of abundant public record, so you're calling that appraisal 'rubbsih' won't fly. The physical, social and economic damage the UDD caused amounts to terrorism under their cheerless leader's own definitions as approved by an elected parliament. The government showed admirable restraint in enforcing the law.

One wonders whether someone like this has any limit on the amount of bloodshed he is happy to endorse.Clearly this fellow, to the extent he expresses himself coherently, is at the reactionary end of the spectrum.Even government spokesmen pay lip service to the concept of a rigorous inquiry - not that they are really prepared to commit to one.Historically the Thai army has always covered up its crimes and avoided accountability.Actually in this case I think the army acted reasonably professionally but there's still a need for a proper inquiry

You are on and on about a rigorous inquiry. What good is that going to do we all know that the red shirts tried to burn down Bangkok they tried through violence to get the legal government to resign. They refused to negotiate. They invaded a hospital. Are you absolutely sure you want to know the whole story. Remember they started the lethal violence on April 10 the rest was just a natural result of there reactions. When the inquiry is over and the red shirts are shown for what they are will you go on a crusade to get them to pay the wages for all the people they put out of work will you try to get them to pay for the rebuilding of the damage caused by there arson. When will you red shirts learn you have rights but the right to hold a nation up for your own personnel gain is not one of them and will be stopped by all the legal means at the governments hands.

Or am I reading you wrong and what you want is a rigorous investigation of the people who financed this act of terrorism. If so my apologies but I think that is a investigation you would rather not have.

Why not ???

I would love to see an impartial, detailed and thorough enquiry attaching blame and responsibility to all culpable parties and then seeking to compensate all injured parties, be they army, red or anyone else.

In my opinion such an enquiry is the correct and perhaps only way forwards and the best way of avoiding a repetition in the future.

Such an enquiry is obviously possible but clearly will not happen.

The point is that it is the Government and the authorities who do not want such an enquiry.

But then again, I doubt if they want to be formally remembered as the first in Thailand to authorise the use of snipers against civilian demonstrators.

[way2muchcoffee]

Why not ???

I would love to see an impartial, detailed and thorough enquiry attaching blame and responsibility to all culpable parties and then seeking to compensate all injured parties, be they army, red or anyone else.

In my opinion such an enquiry is the correct and perhaps only way forwards and the best way of avoiding a repetition in the future.

Such an enquiry is obviously possible but clearly will not happen.

The point is that it is the Government and the authorities who do not want such an enquiry.

But then again, I doubt if they want to be formally remembered as the first in Thailand to authorise the use of snipers against civilian demonstrators.

I agree with the first part of your post. A full and transparent investigation, with teeth, would be the most effective move toward a real and lasting reconciliation.

I am not certain that a full inquiry would reveal as much as you think though. The confusing circumstances surrounding the deaths are far too complicated to unravel. In my opinion the conclusions of the inquiry would necessarily be limited.

Moreover, I am certain that the redshirts have as much to hide as the government in this matter and would fully obstruct any real inquiry, as would the military.

Edited September 5, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[whybother]

Why not ???

I would love to see an impartial, detailed and thorough enquiry attaching blame and responsibility to all culpable parties and then seeking to compensate all injured parties, be they army, red or anyone else.

In my opinion such an enquiry is the correct and perhaps only way forwards and the best way of avoiding a repetition in the future.

Such an enquiry is obviously possible but clearly will not happen.

The point is that it is the Government and the authorities who do not want such an enquiry.

But then again, I doubt if they want to be formally remembered as the first in Thailand to authorise the use of snipers against civilian demonstrators.

The only way the reds would see that ANY inquiry was impartial would be if the resultant report says that all the reds did was sit in front of the the stage with their clappers and that the army killed everyone execution style.

None of the red leaders and most of the red supporters on TVF have not accepted or admitted that some of their group was armed, so any report that points this out will be immediately ridiculed by the red supporters.

[neilf]

Wonder how many were really red shirt supporters and not 'Just there for the concert' ?

What a stupid question...

Do you believe many thousands of people wearing a red shirt and going to a concert organized by redshirts and performed by redshirts are not redshirts?

The army murdered over 90 of them - many millions are left and will never give up.

Here a photo of yesterday's concert in Pattaya.

i stay in pattaya and the last thing it needs now is more red shirt meetings th eplace is empty of tourists as it is with many businesses starting to close including hotels

[jayboy]

Or am I reading you wrong and what you want is a rigorous investigation of the people who financed this act of terrorism. If so my apologies but I think that is a investigation you would rather not have.

What an odd comment.I thought we were discussing an inquiry into the civilian and military deaths in the recent clearing of the Reds from the city centre.

If you want to discuss sources of financing that's fine but surely another thread.And in any case you get me completely wrong - I welcome scrutiny of events and the search for truth even if it is uncomfortable and undermining of my beliefs.It's the sickening certainty of some foreigners that turns the stomach.

[phosphorescent]

Once again, Mr T is adding fuel to the flame. Recent events would suggest he is rebuilding his stockpile of petrol.

[yellow1red1]

Why not ???

I would love to see an impartial, detailed and thorough enquiry attaching blame and responsibility to all culpable parties and then seeking to compensate all injured parties, be they army, red or anyone else.

In my opinion such an enquiry is the correct and perhaps only way forwards and the best way of avoiding a repetition in the future.

Such an enquiry is obviously possible but clearly will not happen.

The point is that it is the Government and the authorities who do not want such an enquiry.

But then again, I doubt if they want to be formally remembered as the first in Thailand to authorise the use of snipers against civilian demonstrators.

I agree with the first part of your post. A full and transparent investigation, with teeth, would be the most effective move toward a real and lasting reconciliation.

I am not certain that a full inquiry would reveal as much as you think though. The confusing circumstances surrounding the deaths are far too complicated to unravel. In my opinion the conclusions of the inquiry would necessarily be limited.

Moreover, I am certain that the redshirts have as much to hide as the government in this matter and would fully obstruct any real inquiry, as would the military.

"The confusing circumstances surrounding the deaths are far too complicated to unravel." If eye witness testimony of those who were beside the fallen, along with the 'existing' video, plus the autoposy reports PLUS the testimony of the survivors who were shot telling of their position when the bullets hit was 'all' added up, the locations platforms of the snipers could be calculated, especially the testimony of the survivors, who would know kind of certain which way they were when the bullets hit.

First thing, they would be called liars. then it would be the army shot from there, I would bet money the the bullets came from perimeters. then it would be the reds 'snuck' to those locations, no it was the blacks, a Thai sniper military 'rumour' has the CIA doing it and then don't the Muslims and Cambodians have good reason to cause turmoil, did I miss Anyone?

I agree that 'solving' this will be like who shot JFK, or who shot Sondhi, or who shut down the airport; but simple math would show the sniper platforms up. There were survivors who never got 'dragged away'.

Get all of tehm to crime scene and vectors would be created. The survivors, alone, could show the trajectories.

Edit; as example, in the first story of the injured French/Canadian journalist the direction of the shooter was reported by him and 2 other journalists.

Question is there any hint wots his name sadaeng? was shot in throat from the crowd??? figer/

scale of 1 to 10 how big is the MESS and how bright is the future NOT?

Edited September 5, 2010 by yellow1red1

[rubl]

I agree with the first part of your post. A full and transparent investigation, with teeth, would be the most effective move toward a real and lasting reconciliation.

I am not certain that a full inquiry would reveal as much as you think though. The confusing circumstances surrounding the deaths are far too complicated to unravel. In my opinion the conclusions of the inquiry would necessarily be limited.

Moreover, I am certain that the redshirts have as much to hide as the government in this matter and would fully obstruct any real inquiry, as would the military.

"The confusing circumstances surrounding the deaths are far too complicated to unravel." If eye witness testimony of those who were beside the fallen, along with the 'existing' video, plus the autoposy reports PLUS the testimony of the survivors who were shot telling of their position when the bullets hit was 'all' added up, the locations platforms of the snipers could be calculated, especially the testimony of the survivors, who would know kind of certain which way they were when the bullets hit.

First thing, they would be called liars. then it would be the army shot from there, I would bet money the the bullets came from perimeters. then it would be the reds 'snuck' to those locations, no it was the blacks, a Thai sniper military 'rumour' has the CIA doing it and then don't the Muslims and Cambodians have good reason to cause turmoil, did I miss Anyone?

I agree that 'solving' this will be like who shot JFK, or who shot Sondhi, or who shut down the airport; but simple math would show the sniper platforms up. There were survivors who never got 'dragged away'.

Get all of tehm to crime scene and vectors would be created. The survivors, alone, could show the trajectories.

You've forgotten the red rumor that the government had hired Cambodian snipers to shoot red's and a handsome premium for every kill. There're probably a few more like that floating around up-north.

Solving this puzzle is indeed not easy. In less than 60 days the DSI will report again. There will be unanswered questions for sure, and disbelieve by all parties and colors. What wonderful discussions we can have again

Edited September 5, 2010 by rubl

[Buchholz]

with the numbers of supporters yesterday at pattaya they are guaranteed winners of next general election...

That'd be quite an accomplishment considering their victories in the last election included ZERO winners in the entire province of Chonburi.

[rubl]

Notice Jayboy is also referring to "snipers" killing civilians. What chances does any inquiry have of actually revealing the identity of these snipers?

Because the reds were obviously supported by an armed force themselves means the calls for an inquiry are gaining very little attention or sympathy outside the red movement, both in Thailand and overseas.

So in your opinion an inquiry can be dispensed with.That's a fairly clear statement of your attachment to the truth.On my part I simply want a credible and transparent investigation

The DSI will report again in less than 60 days. Whatever they report, some people have already made up their mind as to it's value it seems.

Edited September 5, 2010 by rubl

[rubl]

Wonder how many were really red shirt supporters and not 'Just there for the concert' ?

What a stupid question...

Do you believe many thousands of people wearing a red shirt and going to a concert organized by redshirts and performed by redshirts are not redshirts?

The army murdered over 90 of them - many millions are left and will never give up.

Here a photo of yesterday's concert in Pattaya.

i stay in pattaya and the last thing it needs now is more red shirt meetings th eplace is empty of tourists as it is with many businesses starting to close including hotels

empty of tourists, apart part from rainy season, may that be the reason why a free concert was so popular ? With good musicians and nice girly background I might even stomach the red rhetoric in between.

[hyperdimension]

The army murdered over 90 of them - many millions are left and will never give up.

Another bullshitting pro-red propagandist. That 90-odd figure you are quick to throw around INCLUDES murdered army personnel.

Easy boy.It is a matter of record that many unarmed civilians were shot by the army.The question is how many.However in the tradition of the Thai military covering up their crimes unfortunately it seems unlikely there will ever be a credible or thorough investigation.

You can call it bullshitting red propaganda if you like but most reasonable people would just like a proper enquiry.

The UDD incited the violence and destruction beforehand in their speeches. You guys are whining about 90 dead people, yet what these terrorists planned to do (and possibly still plan to do) are far worse. I'd consider the 90 deaths as a preventatitve sacrifice.

Here are excerpts of the UDD's terrorism speeches:

How can anyone in their right mind support these terrorists? jayboy? TallForeigner? tonywebster?

Edited September 5, 2010 by hyperdimension

[jayboy]

The UDD incited the violence and destruction beforehand in their speeches. You guys are whining about 90 dead people, yet what these terrorists planned to do (and possibly still plan to do) are far worse. I'd consider the 90 deaths as a preventatitve sacrifice.

If all the posts supporting army violence were as vicious, unfeeling and unthinking as this, there would be no need to undertake the often thankless task of pointing out uncomfortable home truths about the nature of this struggle.The primitive mentality which talks in terms of "whining about the dead" is obviously beyond much help.Though to be fair there are many urban Thais who think like this, who for reasons which are interesting but obviously beyond the understanding of this genius, have hitched their wagon to the that of the elite.

[rubl]

The UDD incited the violence and destruction beforehand in their speeches. You guys are whining about 90 dead people, yet what these terrorists planned to do (and possibly still plan to do) are far worse. I'd consider the 90 deaths as a preventatitve sacrifice.

If all the posts supporting army violence were as vicious, unfeeling and unthinking as this, there would be no need to undertake the often thankless task of pointing out uncomfortable home truths about the nature of this struggle.The primitive mentality which talks in terms of "whining about the dead" is obviously beyond much help.Though to be fair there are many urban Thais who think like this, who for reasons which are interesting but obviously beyond the understanding of this genius, have hitched their wagon to the that of the elite.

Where did you read 'supporting army violence' in the quotes post ? It is indeed an ungrateful task to point out uncomfortable home truths which do not fit in a prejudiced mindset.

[jayboy]

The UDD incited the violence and destruction beforehand in their speeches. You guys are whining about 90 dead people, yet what these terrorists planned to do (and possibly still plan to do) are far worse. I'd consider the 90 deaths as a preventatitve sacrifice.

If all the posts supporting army violence were as vicious, unfeeling and unthinking as this, there would be no need to undertake the often thankless task of pointing out uncomfortable home truths about the nature of this struggle.The primitive mentality which talks in terms of "whining about the dead" is obviously beyond much help.Though to be fair there are many urban Thais who think like this, who for reasons which are interesting but obviously beyond the understanding of this genius, have hitched their wagon to the that of the elite.

Where did you read 'supporting army violence' in the quotes post ? It is indeed an ungrateful task to point out uncomfortable home truths which do not fit in a prejudiced mindset.

Oh wow, what intellectual power and devastating repartee.

When you have some decent points to make - instead of parroting my posts in a mindless schoolyard manner - let's hear them.In the mean time as Mr Attlee once said to one of his irritatingly voluble colleagues, "a period of silence on your part would be most welcome"

[rubl]

The UDD incited the violence and destruction beforehand in their speeches. You guys are whining about 90 dead people, yet what these terrorists planned to do (and possibly still plan to do) are far worse. I'd consider the 90 deaths as a preventatitve sacrifice.

If all the posts supporting army violence were as vicious, unfeeling and unthinking as this, there would be no need to undertake the often thankless task of pointing out uncomfortable home truths about the nature of this struggle.The primitive mentality which talks in terms of "whining about the dead" is obviously beyond much help.Though to be fair there are many urban Thais who think like this, who for reasons which are interesting but obviously beyond the understanding of this genius, have hitched their wagon to the that of the elite.

Where did you read 'supporting army violence' in the quotes post ? It is indeed an ungrateful task to point out uncomfortable home truths which do not fit in a prejudiced mindset.

Oh wow, what intellectual power and devastating repartee.

When you have some decent points to make - instead of parroting my posts in a mindless schoolyard manner - let's hear them.In the mean time as Mr Attlee once said to one of his irritatingly voluble colleagues, "a period of silence on your part would be most welcome"

Silence, now we can't have that. I agree, the second sentence may have been a bit overdone, but the first (a question) still stands unanswered. Unless your 'decent point .. let's hear them' is your answer. May I remind you answering a question with another question is not really polite. Awaiting your reply .. in silence

Edited September 5, 2010 by rubl

[yellow1red1]

The UDD incited the violence and destruction beforehand in their speeches. You guys are whining about 90 dead people, yet what these terrorists planned to do (and possibly still plan to do) are far worse. I'd consider the 90 deaths as a preventatitve sacrifice.

If all the posts supporting army violence were as vicious, unfeeling and unthinking as this, there would be no need to undertake the often thankless task of pointing out uncomfortable home truths about the nature of this struggle.The primitive mentality which talks in terms of "whining about the dead" is obviously beyond much help.Though to be fair there are many urban Thais who think like this, who for reasons which are interesting but obviously beyond the understanding of this genius, have hitched their wagon to the that of the elite.

Where did you read 'supporting army violence' in the quotes post ? It is indeed an ungrateful task to point out uncomfortable home truths which do not fit in a prejudiced mindset.

Silence, now we can't have that. I agree, the second sentence may have been a bit overdone, but the first (a question) still stands unanswered. Unless your 'decent point .. let's hear them' is your answer. May I remind you answering a question with another question is not really polite. Awaiting your reply .. in silence

Rubl, being a red and yellow supporter helps to see you all are saying. Hyper said 'I'd consider the 90 deaths as a preventatitve sacrifice.'

true this aint exactly quoting 'supporting army violence' as Jayboy stated but sure is same/same sentiment, duh.

Would 'condoning the military tactics, which was deadly' (Hyper "90 deaths") be closer to agreement?

or maybe you describe what hyper meant? he didn't support the military ...fill in blank........ (ya think?)

OR maybe he does!? who knows

[rubl]

Rubl, being a red and yellow supporter helps to see you all are saying. Hyper said 'I'd consider the 90 deaths as a preventatitve sacrifice.'

true this aint exactly quoting 'supporting army violence' as Jayboy stated but sure is same/same sentiment, duh.

Would 'condoning the military tactics, which was deadly' (Hyper "90 deaths") be closer to agreement?

or maybe you describe what hyper meant? he didn't support the military ...fill in blank........ (ya think?)

OR maybe he does!? who knows

Mainly I objected to the 'supporting army violence' remark, maybe only 'army violence'. It started to get out of context. I assume anyone dislikes army violence. At certain times they're just there to prevent violence, and violence against them will be met likewise.

I'm neither a red, nor a yellow shirt supporter. I'm going for the open-minded type.

[oceano]

where a concert was held.

Wonder how many were really red shirt supporters and not 'Just there for the concert' ?

As long as they are listening to music and clacking their clappers rather than bombing and torching, no worries ...

I agree whit you Jingthing, I was there and belive me i listen the real sad people shout when they see the video whit the soldier shooting and the PM and Suthep talk in some in the video.

Was only for people whit PASS and they was a lot, more that the last time in pattaya.

Edited September 5, 2010 by oceano

[smedly]

Wonder how many were really red shirt supporters and not 'Just there for the concert' ?

What a stupid question...

Do you believe many thousands of people wearing a red shirt and going to a concert organized by redshirts and performed by redshirts are not redshirts?

The army murdered over 90 of them - many millions are left and will never give up.

Here a photo of yesterday's concert in Pattaya.

there where deadly weapons on both sides and both sides where using them, maybe we can add you to the stupid corner also

[smedly]

Very silly question. They were all wearing their red shirt, very happy jumping and clapping when Thaksin phoned in. Tell me, isn't that enough clue to show they were all red? Moreover no yellow shirt or pro-government supporter would join a red activity, be it rally or concert...with the numbers of supporters yesterday at pattaya they are guaranteed winners of next general election...they are indeed the majority of Thailand...

They have started non-violent, hope the government doesn't turn violent on them

LOL, so let me get this right, you think that all reds attending where from pattaya or surrounding area, I don't think so, bus loads came from all over so hardly a true representation of anything

[Siripon]

Thaksin is phoning in now because he's worried.

The bleeding of MPs to Pumjaithai, the poor council elections in Bangkok, the dissatisfaction with Payap as leader of the Issan faction where funds failed to reach the destinations,ie MPs, have all weakened Pheua Thai.

And Thaksin knows another violent red protest is the kiss of death for him and his cohorts.

So Yongyut was ordered to propose the 5 point reconcilation plan, a red herring, to make the red shirts\Pheua Thai look conciliatory.

Tomorrow, Pojaman, his so called divorced wife who is supposed to be not interested in politics,will join a meeting of Pheua Thai MPs.

Somchai Wongsawat has already guaranteed continued funds to the MPs.

The Shinawat seniors are back in charge of Pheua Thai with their wallets ready.

Forget any nonsense about it being a party of the people, the elite are back to protect their interests!

[MAJIC]

The army murdered over 90 of them - many millions are left and will never give up.

Another bullshitting pro-red propagandist. That 90-odd figure you are quick to throw around INCLUDES murdered army personnel.

Easy boy.It is a matter of record that many unarmed civilians were shot by the army.The question is how many.However in the tradition of the Thai military covering up their crimes unfortunately it seems unlikely there will ever be a credible or thorough investigation.

You can call it bullshitting red propaganda if you like but most reasonable people would just like a proper enquiry.

The UDD incited the violence and destruction beforehand in their speeches. You guys are whining about 90 dead people, yet what these terrorists planned to do (and possibly still plan to do) are far worse. I'd consider the 90 deaths as a preventatitve sacrifice.

Here are excerpts of the UDD's terrorism speeches:

How can anyone in their right mind support these terrorists? jayboy? TallForeigner? tonywebster?

Indeed,If the Sub Titles are a true translation of the Pattaya phone in speech then:

Clearly incitement of the Red shirt mob to commit further acts of Terrorism as performed by them in Bangkok.

How can this man believe his own lies?that he has not been involved in Terrorism,whilst paying for Rent a Mob Red Shirts and PR liars,and Ochestrating Terrorism,Anarchy,Bloodshed,by the Reds, with the apparent,ultimate aim of the Destruction of Thailand.

Truly an Evil man.

[Insight]

The UDD incited the violence and destruction beforehand in their speeches. You guys are whining about 90 dead people, yet what these terrorists planned to do (and possibly still plan to do) are far worse. I'd consider the 90 deaths as a preventatitve sacrifice.

If all the posts supporting army violence were as vicious, unfeeling and unthinking as this, there would be no need to undertake the often thankless task of pointing out uncomfortable home truths about the nature of this struggle.The primitive mentality which talks in terms of "whining about the dead" is obviously beyond much help.Though to be fair there are many urban Thais who think like this, who for reasons which are interesting but obviously beyond the understanding of this genius, have hitched their wagon to the that of the elite.

Posted this before but didn't get a response from you, so here it goes again:

Given the numerous amounts of proven propaganda distributed by the red shirts over this period attempting to paint the army negatively - the images taken from a video of the soldiers shot in the south and placed onto a poster stating this is what happens when soldiers refuse to deal with red shirts, the photoshopped photos of the slain protesters, and not to mention the many images of the so called MiB and Chavalit's men armed and wearing army fatigues on a skytrain station - it's the red shirts with a real credibility crisis and the reason many people are taking their claims about the army shooting journalists and nurses with a very large dose of salt.

[hyperdimension]

The UDD incited the violence and destruction beforehand in their speeches. You guys are whining about 90 dead people, yet what these terrorists planned to do (and possibly still plan to do) are far worse. I'd consider the 90 deaths as a preventatitve sacrifice.

If all the posts supporting army violence were as vicious, unfeeling and unthinking as this,

Yet you support the "vicious, unfeeling and unthinking" violence of the UDD that was publicly announced beforehand and then later put into action? If there was no violence from the UDD then there would have been no deaths, as the army would have stuck with non-lethal means of dispersal. The UDD brought the deaths upon themselves and then repeatedly use the deaths as a propaganda tool.