Best Cheapest Way To Extend Retirement Visa

[Jingthing]

How's this?

Combo method?

NO money seasoning required under the rules.

Next ...

[jfchandler]

Sorry for any confusion...

Lop and Jing are correct, of course. As stated, no seasoning is required when using the combo method (Thai bank deposit and monthly income) of satisfying Thai Immigration's financial requirement for extensions of stay based on retirement.

Seasoning is required when using the bank deposits only method... 2 months prior on a person's first extension of stay application, and three months prior on all subsequent extension requests...

The income can be derived from anywhere and deposited anywhere. But any amounts used for the bank deposits portion must be kept in a bank account inside Thailand.

[dominique355]

I am just back from renewing my retirement visa this morning. No need for any help for that.

- Download the form TM7 and fill it out, print it on 2 pages

- Make Photocopies of your passport, first page, page with signature,first visa, present visa, last entry stamp, arrival card

- Get a letter from your bank confirming you have THB 800,000 in a Thai bank account

- Make photocopies of the bank book

- Update the bankbook the day you go to Immigration

- Sign all Photocopies

That's it. Go to the Immigration and wait to be processed. It took me 40 min (including re-entry visa) and cost THB 1,900 for the visa and THB 3,800 for the re-entry visa.

PM me if you need help.

[Mario2008]

Congratulations with your extension.

1 would make a copy of all pages with visas and extensions.

Some immigration officers will not accept a printed form if you print it on 2 separate pages instead of double sided.

[jfchandler]

The nice thing about the combo method, apart from NOT having any seasoning requirement for the Thai bank deposits, is that pretty much any reasonable ratios can be used in the combination.

As long as the amounts involved total to at least 800,000 baht per year, it can be A LOT of monthly income (x 12) combined with a smaller portion of bank deposits.....or just the opposite, a lot of bank deposits combined with a smaller portion of monthly income (x 12). The combination can be whatever combination fits with a person's particular finances.

Just remember, doing the combination approach, you still have to document/verify both financials in their individual ways: consulate income letter or Thai tax returns for the monthly income portion, and Thai bank book copies/bank letter etc. for the bank deposits.

A simple yes or no on my rewording for last a grasp at clarity posed please then I'm done with this thread and will deal with it one way or the other when I get there in a couple weeks. If I didn't have to get the 90-day one-entry visa to get there and establish a bank account to satisfy the 2-month "seasoning" rule (exception) because I will be using the combo method, then I just wasted 2000 baht on an unnecessary 90-day one-entry tourist visa, not the end of the world but a total waste is a total waste and cash in any currency is becoming more scarce by the day for many of us (and don't get me satrted on the exchange rates).

[peebee]

One question that I have that does not appear to have been covered: If 65,000B is being transferred into a Thai bank account each month (say from a pension in home country), why can't a bank letter and/or bank passbook be used to confirm the income? Why is there a need to obtain confirmation from embassy of income?

[lopburi3]

Because there is no such rule on transfer - only that you have income as stated on paper from your Embassy. If you want to use bank deposit the rule is 800k for retirement and money in account for 2 months before first application and 3 months for later applications.

[peebee]

Because there is no such rule on transfer - only that you have income as stated on paper from your Embassy. If you want to use bank deposit the rule is 800k for retirement and money in account for 2 months before first application and 3 months for later applications.

Thanks for your reply Lopburi3 and I appreciate that point. However if a person transfers 65,000B into their Thai bank account each month to live on, could they use a bank letter/statement (instead of an embassy confirmation) to satisfy immigration requirements?

[Lite Beer]

Because there is no such rule on transfer - only that you have income as stated on paper from your Embassy. If you want to use bank deposit the rule is 800k for retirement and money in account for 2 months before first application and 3 months for later applications.

Thanks for your reply Lopburi3 and I appreciate that point. However if a person transfers 65,000B into their Thai bank account each month to live on, could they use a bank letter/statement (instead of an embassy confirmation) to satisfy immigration requirements?

Nope. It has to be the Embassy Letter.

[peebee]

Because there is no such rule on transfer - only that you have income as stated on paper from your Embassy. If you want to use bank deposit the rule is 800k for retirement and money in account for 2 months before first application and 3 months for later applications.

Thanks for your reply Lopburi3 and I appreciate that point. However if a person transfers 65,000B into their Thai bank account each month to live on, could they use a bank letter/statement (instead of an embassy confirmation) to satisfy immigration requirements?

Nope. It has to be the Embassy Letter.

OK thanks for making that clear.

Appreciate all the advice provided by the posters in this forum

[Maestro]

peebee, you seem to misunderstand the word "income". It does not mean "money coming into Thailand". Income means money you earn from employment, pension, interest, dividends, renting out property, etc.

[Maestro]

...Perhaps it is quite easy to sign an affidavit at conslate without all the proof. I hope someone can confirm this too from the poster., I hope...

It depends what you call "easy".

1. You do not have to show any proof for the income at the US embassy.
   
2. Before you sign the income affidavit, you must confirm under oath before the consular official that the information you wrote in the affidavit is correct. Penalties under US law apply if you are found to have sworn a false oath.
   
3. When you apply for your extension of stay with the embassy's income affidavit, the immigration officer has the right to ask you for supporting evidence of the income stated in the affidavit. Reports that they do this have been very few.
   

The US embassy's form for the income affidavit can be viewed here. Instructions for its use are here.

[peebee]

Maestro, appreciate your thought but I have no misunderstanding in relation to income. The focus of my questions have simply been whether a declaration from one's embassy is the only option when using income (rather than a bank balance) to support an application. That has been made clear.

Since I am posting again, I may as well as another question: Can the embassy document be in English (for English speakers) or does it need to be translated in Thai?

Again, appreciate advice.

[lopburi3]

English paperwork is accepted by Immigration. So yes income letters can be in English and do not require translation into Thai.

[MaiThaiMai]

...Perhaps it is quite easy to sign an affidavit at conslate without all the proof. I hope someone can confirm this too from the poster., I hope...

It depends what you call "easy".

1. You do not have to show any proof for the income at the US embassy.
2. Before you sign the income affidavit, you must confirm under oath before the consular official that the information you wrote in the affidavit is correct. Penalties under US law apply if you are found to have sworn a false oath.
3. When you apply for your extension of stay with the embassy's income affidavit, the immigration officer has the right to ask you for supporting evidence of the income stated in the affidavit. Reports that they do this have been very few.

The US embassy's form for the income affidavit can be viewed here. Instructions for its use are here.

Now there's some clarity sorely needed...now, please don't tell us the only U.S. Embassy is in Bangkok? Hopefully a consulate in Pattaya, [Rayong] or on Phuket? I know where the immigration office is in Chom Tien .. .. .. thank you for your input.

Edit to add locations: My link

MaiThaiMai

:jap:

Edited September 15, 2010 by MaiThaiMai

[jazzbo]

Since so many Citizens of USA complain on ThaiVisa about their taxes and wasteful spending, the USA only maintains one Consulate in Thailand (in addition to Bangkok Embassy) that being in Chiang Mai.

As Kuhn L. mentions above:

When you apply for your extension of stay with the embassy's income affidavit, the immigration officer has the right to ask you for supporting evidence of the income stated in the affidavit. Reports that they do this have been very few.

The giveaway?: BODY LANGUAGE.

[TaoNow]

Just a point of clarification: not all pensions pay out retiree "income" on a monthly basis.

For some plans, you may withdraw the pension funds as a 10-year annuity (i.e., one lump sum paid to you once a year for ten years).

Or, you can withdraw the entire amount in your pension account and manage the money yourself.

In this way, to satisfy the 65K baht per month retirement extension proviso, you merely need to park 800,000 baht equivalent in any liquid account anywhere outside of Thailand.

It could be a checking account, or a simple savings account, or cash under a friend's mattress.

Based on that, you could honestly swear to your embassy that you have retirement "income" in the equivalent amount of 65K baht per month for one year.

This point is important for those people without social security or an employer pension plan that only pays out on a monthly basis.

And for those who can't quite meet the 65K baht./month threshold from their monthly pension payments, and don't want to keep a savings account in Thailand.

TN

[jfchandler]

You raise some good points, TN...

Re using the monthly income method, advice given here in the past has stated that it's OK to use a monthly figure that is the average of your actual income over the year involved.... So if someone's monthly income varied some month to month (or in your example $25,000 in one month and 0 in the other 11 months), using the average amount over the year would be OK, I would think..

So, if someone received a once a year annuity or similar payment and can document that, I'm assuming it would be OK to use 1/12th of that as a monthly income figure. It wouldn't matter where the funds were kept or deposited.... You'd only have to verify them thru a Consulate issued income affidavit.

Now, that's where the issue gets more interesting. I gather, different countries' consulates have different procedures for how they go about issuing the income letters. Some just ask the individual to swear the amount claimed is correct. Others I gather require various documentation.

So the question becomes, would an annual annuity payment be considered acceptable by any person's particular consulate for purposes of issuing the income letter??? For the U.S., I believe it would. For other countries, I don't have any experience on that question.

But one correction about your comment. If someone is using the monthly income method to satisfy immigration, that person wouldn't have to "park" those funds anywhere. And it wouldn't matter whether where they were kept or how they were used, assuming the income came from outside Thailand. They'd only have to satisfy their consulate that they had the incoming income enough to issue the income affidavit.

The only time "parking" the funds comes into play is when a person is using the bank deposits method (not monthly income). In the case of the bank deposits method, the 800,000 baht has to be kept in a bank in Thailand for the required period prior to one's application for extension of stay.

[peebee]

Good thinking TN and jfc. If embassies accept this view (or don't check) it would provide retirees with a lot more flexibility in organising their financial arrangements to meet immigration arrangements.

Can we have advice from readers of what the various embassies require before issuing 'income confirmation letters'?

Thanks also Lopburi3 for response on English paperwork being accepted.

[Mario2008]

Embassies decide for them selves what they will accept as proof of income. Normally they will consider the yearly income, not the monthly income which can vary.

Income can also be things as interest and rents one receives for renting out the house, etc. As said, the mebassy decides.

[jazzbo]

The income affidavit from your embassy is really only step 1. Step two is providing any corroborative documents as to your claim of 65K and the sufficiency of that is totally at the IMM officer's discretion.

[jesimps]

Big problem!

My one-year OA retirement visa runs out on 8 October. Have got all the necessary documents together to visit immig Jomtien tomorrow and thought that I'd just do a quick check on the website to see if everything was present and correct. To my horror I noticed that I need a minimum of 18 months left on my passport, I've got nearer eight!

I don't suppose there's any way round this other than to get another type of visa to keep me here till I can get my passport renewed (it's a British Passport and has to go to Hong Kong for renewal and takes at least a month). Then I suppose I'll have to leave the country to get a type 'O' visa and then convert that to a retirement visa.

The only other option I can see is to return to UK before the 8th Oct (which I shudder at doing) and get my passport and 'O' visa done there.

Anyone know of a way around this or am I doomed to start the process from scratch again.

[digitalchromakey]

My one-year OA retirement visa runs out on 8 October. Have got all the necessary documents together to visit immig Jomtien tomorrow and thought that I'd just do a quick check on the website to see if everything was present and correct. To my horror I noticed that I need a minimum of 18 months left on my passport, I've got nearer eight!

When you refer to an 'OA retirement visa' are you talking about a Temporary Extension of Permission to Stay based on retirement which you obtained from your local Immigration Department in Thailand, or did you obtain your current visa overseas?

Big difference.

[lopburi3]

Immigration should provide extension until the expiration of your passport so when you obtain the new passport visit again to transfer stamps and get the full year entered.

[jazzbo]

The wording on Police Order 2551/777 (Isaan Lawyers translation) at 2.22 is:

2.22 In the case of a retiree: Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.

So maybe if you say 'pretty please' the Officer at your IMM Office will grant you an extension of only 3 months with commensurate Passport Validity and then you could return with your new passport ... would IMHO be your best shot.

So according to Kuhn L. if someone showed up with a Passport Validity of 12 months plus one day instead of 18 months they would have no problem... so why the 18 months.

BTW it is right there on the TM7 form that you can ask for an extension of temporary stay in the Kingdom for 'X' number of days... doesn't have to be 365.

Edited September 26, 2010 by jazzbo

[jesimps]

Immigration should provide extension until the expiration of your passport so when you obtain the new passport visit again to transfer stamps and get the full year entered.

Think will go and try that. There may be a problem though, because I do my extension based on my annual pensions, I have to get a letter of verification from the consul and he checks ALL your docs before he'll issue the letter. Will go and see him anyway and see what happens.

Thanks for your replies.

[jazzbo]

It says on the MFA website to apply for 'O-A' Non-IMM Visa:

2. Required Documents

- Passport with validity of not less than 18 months.

It then says at 5. below:

A one-year extension of stay shall be granted at the discretion of the immigration officer to the foreigner as long as he or she meets the above (5.) requirements.

The advice being given here is that it makes no difference whether your passport is set to expire before 18 months or that it even might expire before the requested time of extension ... in fact it could expire next week and the IMM Officer will just transfer and extend your stay to the full requested time when you come back with your spiffy new passport ... no additional fee incurred I guess... It would be within the discretion of the IMM officer to grant such a request; it would also be within discretion to tell you to come back when you get your new passport

Edited September 26, 2010 by jazzbo

[lopburi3]

Again the process here is for one year extension of stay by Immigration and has nothing to do with MFA or a Consulate.

[jazzbo]

So as per above you will fill out your TM7 form with a passport 'valid until' date of 8 months and then request an extension of stay for 365 days / 12 months ... then hope that the IMM Officer's discretion that day includes a good sense of humor.

[lopburi3]

There is no humor involved. There are many reports on this forum of it being done as routine.